Ask a Shiter

[Bfg]

Question for Electrical gurus

 

Can any tell me are AGM batteries worth the extra money on a 1974  car.?  

 

Thinking is ; that the gel batteries (if they are the same as AGM ??) I use on my old 6v motorcycles do not loose charge when left standing through the winter, whereas lead acid batteries do.   Also I've read that a if lead acid battery is run down beyond 50% charge - then it never fully recovers.    BUT .. then I find that even new gel batteries on my bikes never seem to carry the same power punch..  (I use two 6v gel's in parallel).

 

Varta offer a five year guarantee on their batteries, but are other brands as good.?

 

Can you advise what alternative batteries I might consider. for example I spotted something about calcium.  Is this something that differentials types like Varta's Silver batteries

 

I wonder do Gel or AGM batteries need a different changing power regulation than my bike's dynamo with Lucas regulator set-up gives, or indeed what the alternator / regulator setup of my Shitroen Ami 1-ltr will be dishing out.  ?

 

Thanks, Pete

[jonathan_dyane]

My GT-550 got an advisory for a weak horn at the last MOT. The bike only had a single horn but I had previously observed that there is a horn bracket on each side and all of the other GT-550's I've seen have a pair. I therefore bought a pair of cheap chinese horns and fitted them. Unfortunately however the first time I used them in anger the long burst blew the main fuse and I ground to a halt feeling quite the twat.

 

Questions:

 

1) How much current (amps) does a motorcycle horn typically draw.

2) Can I determine the current draw of my ill-chosen new horns from measuring the resistance?

 

I hatez electics...

[burraston2006]

I has a spring getting fit regime in place:

Cutting down the fags from 20 tailor made a day to 20 rollies, parking the car in the street rather than the drive( so I have to walk an extra 5 yards a day) and using the upstairs toilet rather than the downstairs ( better reading material up there).

My question is: Should I have this for brekkie:

 

Or this:

 

[Rocket88]

Both...................combined.

[Andrew353w]

My GT-550 got an advisory for a weak horn at the last MOT. The bike only had a single horn but I had previously observed that there is a horn bracket on each side and all of the other GT-550's I've seen have a pair. I therefore bought a pair of cheap chinese horns and fitted them. Unfortunately however the first time I used them in anger the long burst blew the main fuse and I ground to a halt feeling quite the twat.

 

Questions:

 

1) How much current (amps) does a motorcycle horn typically draw.

2) Can I determine the current draw of my ill-chosen new horns from measuring the resistance?

 

I hatez electics...

 

 

I hope the following helps: 

 

Single horn or double horn? Maybe one is missing!

 

Some car horns can draw 20 amps, which is quite a lot of current, and I suspect bike horns would draw the same amount. To give you an idea of how much 20 amps is, a normal car headlight on main beam draws about 5 amps, so the horns are using FOUR times the power of your headlight! The calculation is done my dividing the wattage by the voltage; a 60 watt headlight draws 5 amps, as 60 divided by 12 is 5. Are there any numbers referring to wattages or amperages on the horn box? if not, the quality must be suspect.....

 

 

It's possible (given Chinese build quality-or the lack of it...) that the wiring in the horn is defective. A decent multi-meter is useful in diagnosing faults, but in the absence of one I would try connecting the horns directly to the battery, (thus avoiding any damaging of the bike's wiring) but put an in line fuse holder in the circuit, with a 20 amp fuse, so you end up with a wire going from the battery to a fuse holder, then a wire from the fuse holder to the horn. Touch the wire to the battery's "+" terminal and the horn should sound. If it does and sounds nice and loud, with a steady tone, then the horn is functioning correctly. Problem number one solved!

 

If your horn(s) are drawing power in the order of 20 amps you MUST have a relay fitted. A relay is a device that allows the small switch on your handlebars to handle the huge amount of electricity going to the horns. If the horns do work properly without the bike's wiring then there's no reason why the horns should not work properly when a relay is fitted in the bike's wiring. I'm happy to offer more advice if needed. I cannot emphasise the usefulness of a decent multi-meter when working on vehicle electrics!

[burraston2006]

I thought about that but I didn't want to be even more of a fat bastard!!

[mat_the_cat]

Question for Electrical gurus

 

Can any tell me are AGM batteries worth the extra money on a 1974  car.?  

 

Lots of info here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

[D Spares & Tyres]

This is my old Shogun.

 

Like a lot of 4x4s of that era is has some nice lights in a normal place.

 

But they are blanks. Apart from the reversing and fog lights. The actual lights are in a very vulnerable place on the bumper as with most others.

 

Why would you design a car like this? The only explanation I can think of is they they would be too high to be legal if they worked.

 

Am I right?????

[Pillock]

I thought you were right, I'm sure I asked the same question when the Maverick/Terrano2 first came out and it had lights in the bumper despite having a large cluster in the bodywork.

 

However, surely those lights that are "too high" are no higher than those of a Mondeo estate, Mk2 Focus etc. 

[scdan4]

My GT-550 got an advisory for a weak horn at the last MOT. The bike only had a single horn but I had previously observed that there is a horn bracket on each side and all of the other GT-550's I've seen have a pair. I therefore bought a pair of cheap chinese horns and fitted them. Unfortunately however the first time I used them in anger the long burst blew the main fuse and I ground to a halt feeling quite the twat.

 

Questions:

 

1) How much current (amps) does a motorcycle horn typically draw.

2) Can I determine the current draw of my ill-chosen new horns from measuring the resistance?

 

I hatez electics...

 

i'd swap back to the weak horn.

 

can't see how / why horns would pull enough current to zap the main fuse.

 

Is it repeatable - will it do it again / every time?

[Bfg]

.

Rear Lights : Legislation (construction and use regulations) say that some rear lights have to be seen from both side angles, which in the case of rear door mounted big-fat tyres (particularly those mounted to one side of the tailgate) are restricted.  Moving the lamps low down in the bumper overcomes this.  The original height was fine - but not the viewing angle (..particularly for a cyclist in a RHD drive country).

 

Legislation varies from one country (or territory) to another.   So, whereas the higher lamps and their viewing angles are fine  .. let's say,  in America - they may not be fine for Europe.   Cyclists being able to see turn signals (from their viewpoint of riding in the gutter) meant that I had to fit side indicator repeaters when I imported my American Chrysler Voyager to England. (..before it could be registered and I was allowed to pay road tax ! ).   I also had to fit different coloured bulbs and a rear fog lamp.

 

 

Horn : maybe your main fuse is too low an amperage rating. Check this in the owners manual (or websites specs on your bike).  Alternatively there may b;e a short in your wiring to the second horn.  Of course you should realise that two horns of the same pitch and loudness do not equate to double the noise. One simply cannot be heard over the noise of the other !  

 

If you want a more effective horn, move it to the front of the bike - pointing forward.  ie towards the person you're wanting to attract attention of,  not the poor old sod who's got a loose sphincter ...minding his own business as he hobbles along the pavement ! 

 

 

AGM Battery : Thanks Mat..,  I'll have a look.    (p.s.  'mat_the_cat'  sounds like something you do to the little firkr !)

[Dave_Q]

A cursory google suggests the gt550 has a 20a main fuse. Is there any power rating info on the horns?

[Bfg]

20a is massive for a bike,  and should easily cope with twin horns. 

 

Pretty well any fuse bought over the counter nowadays  (unless specifically asked for otherwise) should survive a 5 second blast..  So I'd go back to speculating ; either a wiring fault or (less likely) a faulty new horn. 

The former may be a clue as to why the second horn was no longer on the bike.! ?

[jonathan_dyane]

All very helpful on the horn front.

 

The original spec was twin horns although it had lost one at some point. The wiring is slightly odd (and not terribly conducive to fitting a relay) in that the horns have a permanent live (with the ignition on) and the horn switch is on the earth side.

 

The new horns do indeed work and it was only a prolonged 5 second burst that blew the fuse. I guess the most likely issue is that the horns are too powerful for the bike (alas they have no power rating on them) and my options are either:

 

1) rewire so that the horn switch is on the +ve side and use it to trigger a relay with a new fused live from the battery

2) remove one of the new horns to reduce the load

3) take the old horn to bits to clean the rust out of it and clean the contacts and refit it

4) buy more fucking horns which are motorcycle specific

 

I had no idea horns were such a high load item but it does make sense. 

[Asimo]

I would try the two horns in series, I did it years ago, on my Minor I think it was, made plenty of noise for no more amps than the single horn. If the horn has a tuning / adjusting screw you will find that adjusting it affects the current a lot, as well as the sound.

[DeeJay]

Gaffer tape an air horn to your handlebars.

Job jobbed.

[jonathan_dyane]

Well I wired them in parallel, I had no idea wiring in series would reduce the load! How does that work then?

[Andrew353w]

All very helpful on the horn front.

 

The original spec was twin horns although it had lost one at some point. The wiring is slightly odd (and not terribly conducive to fitting a relay) in that the horns have a permanent live (with the ignition on) and the horn switch is on the earth side.

 

The new horns do indeed work and it was only a prolonged 5 second burst that blew the fuse. I guess the most likely issue is that the horns are too powerful for the bike (alas they have no power rating on them) and my options are either:

 

1) rewire so that the horn switch is on the +ve side and use it to trigger a relay with a new fused live from the battery

2) remove one of the new horns to reduce the load

3) take the old horn to bits to clean the rust out of it and clean the contacts and refit it

4) buy more fucking horns which are motorcycle specific

 

I had no idea horns were such a high load item but it does make sense. 

 

 

The horn switch being on the earth side is quite normal for horns. If you fit a relay you can use the same circuit so that the relay is permanently live and is switched on the earth side. I appreciate space requirements on a  bike are different to a car but when I fit extra horns to a car I use the car's original horn wiring to operate a relay instead of the original horn and then wire the new horn via a separate in line fuse and the relay. In this way the original operating of the horn remains the same (for example, inoperative the the ignition is off) and the extra horns can later be removed more easily if needed.

 

If the horns do have a cover that can be removed the pitch many be adjustable. If they are this adjustment will dramatically affect the current they use. Most air horns (as opposed to wind horns) are not adjustable and are sealed for life. I fit twin air horns, of a compact design, that would fit quite well onto a bike horn bracket-about £10 from a decent motor factor, including relay and wiring instructions.

[jonathan_dyane]

Of course, I hadn't thought about it that makes perfect sense that I can equally drive the relay with a swiched earth. I'll have to see if I can squeeze one in  somewhere!

[Noel Tidybeard]

Excuse to buy Trolley Jack!  

since when does an man need an excuse to buy a trolley jack

not owning an trolly jack is against the law!*

 

*this may in fact be untrue

[richardmorris]

Ok, I've a stupid problem with the 2cv I'm not well enough to think through.

 

All indicators work, hazard lights work. but the relay clacker and green dash lamp only flash the once when the stalk is moved in either direction. Until I started playing about with it yesterday this issue only afflicted the LHS. The driver's side had no problem, now it does!

 

Both clacker and green lamp sound and flash ok with the hazard switch.

 

Sounds like it could be a poor earth, but I've not had chance to investigate. Also it's confusing me with it now afflicting both sides, but not the hazard circuit- which should mean it's not the usual problem of poor earth to the front wing bulb.

[Andrew353w]

When you operate the hazard switch you do two things: you isolate the flasher from the indicator stalk and you connect the flasher unit to the indicators on BOTH sides of the car. If the hazard lights then all work properly you know two things, namely that all the indicator bulbs are in good order and that the flasher unit is working properly. If the indicators on either side don't work properly when the hazard switch is switched off then the fault probably lies in the hazard switch. Try some switch cleaner in it first & check that all the connections including the bracket securing the flasher unit to the car body are both shiny and tight.

 

You can bypass the hazard switch and wire the flasher unit to the indicator stalk directly. If you do this and all the indicators, including the dashboard warning light work properly then the fault's definitely in the hazard switch. 

[richardmorris]

No, the hazards work fine and when the switch is pressed the green indicator tell tale and hazard red tell tale work.

 

BUT, with the indicator stalk up or down, the lindicators still work perfectly but the green tell tale doesn't flash.

 

So, all bulbs are fine, the tell tale bulbs are fine and the indicator switch is fine as it turns the bulbs on.

What isn't fine and only works on the first flash is the green tell tale and relay clack.

 

Pointing towards the indicator switch I suppose, but it's just a bit of brass with four contact poles.

[forddeliveryboy]

Possibly a poor earth meaning less current passed than usual. Are all the bulbs up to normal brightness? Could be the relay or its connection, or as you say something up with the brass bullet connectors in the indicator switch itself. 

[burraston2006]

Does anyone know anything about these guys?

 

http://www.pioneer-automobiles.co.uk/

 

They have something I may be interested in. Are they sound or a bunch of charlatans?

[richardmorris]

Possibly a poor earth meaning less current passed than usual. Are all the bulbs up to normal brightness? Could be the relay or its connection, or as you say something up with the brass bullet connectors in the indicator switch itself.

 

Only the one relay for the indicators and hazards so a common point. I'm thinking it's the earth return to the switch. I'll make up an extra earth wire tonight and rig that up to see.

 

There's not a lot to them...

[bub2006]

Volvo issues. Can anyone assist?

When I bought it the heaters were mediocre and the temp gauge sat low. Flushed rad,block and heater matrix with water,fitte stat and bled system. All good so far and temp gauge sat in middle. Morning after I checked coolant level and bottle was empty. No leaks anywhere. Topped it up and let air out and good to go. Later that day the heaters went cool,gauge dropped again so topped it up and it was fine. Someone said leave cap off overnight which I did. Morning after the level was still full. Gauge now sits anywhere between half and 3/4. Heaters are hot too. Last night I parked it up and left rad cap on. Come to it this morning and bottle empty. It seems to empty when cap left on. No symptoms of hgf either. I know it could benefit from another flush ,water is brown again but I'm confused!

[LC Torana]

Welsh plug?

[xtriple]

Does anyone have any old cassettes for me to play in the Maz?

 

The old lad that had it was even more stuck in the 70s than most of us and had the CD player removed and a new Sony radio/cassette fitted! The radio is fine and I could use the lovely adapter that a nice member on here sent me, but.... I quite fancy a few nostalgic tapes.

 

So, Marrillion, Queen, Aerosmith, Floyd,  shit like that kicking about? Obviously got to work and have a money back warranty for the next ten years, and hand delivered by a nubile young virgin (virgin optional!) who can suck cheddar through a keyhole....

 

FanQ 

 

 

 

Edit to add: Virgin delivery person MUST be female!  

[Bfg]

Volvo issues : no direct experience of Volvo's but two thoughts come to mind, one is that the expansion tank is still being filled up or the pipe is loose or there's a split. *

 

The other (which is common to old Jaguars) is an air-lock in the heater matrix, which may still get hot but is not yet full.  If the either the matrix or radiator is part blocked it would still flush because the water just takes the easiest route around the blockage. This might well explain the still brown waters. On the jag you fill the system as normal, and run it so that the thermostat opens. Stop every so often to check and top up as required. Once it all seems full, then remove the top heater matrix hose and see if you can back-fill water coolant mix into it. You'll likely then have to run it again, with the top hose just loose enough to allow trapped air to squeeze out.  

 

The early Jags never had an expansion tank.  I fitted one under my front wing of my '66 S-type, and after flushing and purging it was fine.  But please be aware that the expansion tank should start off half full / half empty.   Then as the coolant gets hot (running) it expands and the excessive volume is pushed into the expansion tank. As it cools again (overnight) the coolant  in the radiator and engine block contract. This creates a partial vacuum - which draws the coolant in the expansion tank back into the cooling system.

 

* However if the water level is too low, or if there is an air leak in the expansion tank then air is sucked into the coolant system. This finds it way back to the heater matrix and we're back to having an air lock.  As that air  gets hot - it too expands (but more than water) and this pushes excessive coolant out through the overflow pipe (as you drive).  You then check the water level and as it hot it looks full.  Only after it's contracted can you see the level has gone down.   ie. when working properly the bottle will be back to half empty, rather than full.

 

I don't know if that helps you understands the symptoms of your particular car, but I hope so. As I say I only have experiences of the old Jag.  My Chrysler has not yet had a problem (despite 215k miles).   Best of luck