invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[AdgeCutler]

Not nearly the progress I hoped for this weekend but isn’t that always the case?

A good few hours of cleaning the crankcase halves have been spent and one sides cam followers installed.

[LightBulbFun]

13 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

Brian the 12e had his first proper outing of the year yesterday, a nice little car meet in the Churchyard, Alveston. He received lots of interest in the Sunshine while I enjoyed a Bacon roll and a mooch. Driving home suddenly got interesting when the wind started to blow a hooley, requiring lots of twitchy steering corrections and a freak storm cloud burst its load of hail and sleet. It only lasted a couple of minutes but as the windscreen hit freezing point it was misting up (no demister on a mk12!) rapidly and the wiper piling up sleet either side of its stroke (porthole of peril @dollywobbler!?) left me with very limited visibility on a fast and winding road used by HGVs. I suppose all the excitement just added to the adventure and I enjoyed the outing, the little Invacar performed to its full capabilities.

Great to See Brian out and about once more! yeah even in the Model 70, I have that problem sometimes that the bit of the windscreen you look through for the wing mirrors, especially the offside one, is the one corner of the windscreen that the wiper does not reach

7 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Princess drivers seat for sale in Finchley if your current one is sagging and ever needs swapping out whilst rebuilt.

https://ebay.us/m/m8ixHw

Thanks for the heads up, but @SiC gave the interior a complete overhaul/spruce up including replacing all the seats with better items  (speaking of that related work, I looked at @SiC's pictures from the heater control work, and I dont think the cables ever had a Z in them just L shaped ends that hooked in the hole, so looks like all thats happened is its popped back out the hole and needs popping back in, I did try and have a quick fiddle with it to get it back in the hole but it was not playing ball, need to revisit it with some needle nose pliers or such like so I can position it better)

 

 

speaking of the Princess, yesterday while REV was getting a wash, I visited the local waste disposal site to get rid of REV's old engine oil and the filter, I of course, had to have a shifty through the fluorescent tube/lightbulb  recycling bin, where I found this whole compete Twin 8W T5 bulkhead in there, in remarkably good condition so of course it made its way home with me  

its a bit of a rare beast too, an original Atlas Escort(?) predating the much more commonly known Thorn Escort bulkhead 

listed in 1966 as a current range product

but replaced by 1969 by the more familiar angular design of  Thorn Escort (tho as seen originally sold under Thorn's Atlas brand too)

very pleased to have been able to find/save it! these early Atlas ones are quite rare and in general I have wanted a Twin 8W Bulkhead of this general style like this for some time but I have never been able to secure one, so pleased to finally have one, and in pretty good condition too, only a slight crack to the diffuser and overall in good shape, interestingly does not look to have had many hours on it, but the tubes fitted are both very recent production so seemingly was serviced not all that long ago before being removed

 

(ultimate holy-grail would be a Quad 8W Coughtrie SFB32, if anyone has one of those lemme know LOL)

[LightBulbFun]

On 28/03/2026 at 23:18, danthecapriman said:

Petrol is there for burning my friend! It’s your moral duty and obligation to burn as much of it as possible thus ultimately improving the climate🤣

Im not sure how it’d fare tbh around your way. Urban driving is definitely not what it’s really designed for though so it certainly wouldn’t be very good! It’d be a pain for parking too with the size of it. 
Now probably isn’t the best time to try either with petrol prices going up.

it was more that, both when I was looking at @wuvvum's Volvo when he had that briefly up for sale, and the Crown Victoria Limousine I tried so hard to get, a few people said to me "but what about the fuel economy!" and I am looking back at this and seeing the 22Mpg, that the VDP is getting, and wondering would a big inline 6 or Big V8 be any worse? I have heard they get about 15-25Mpg themselves! hence my question, would it actually be any worse LOL

 

i imagine the Mercury has Power steering?, and probably much better visibility then most moderns, so I dont see parking it being a problem, most modern blobs are massive anyhow! so I doubt the Mercury would be any worse LOL

[danthecapriman]

6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

it was more that, both when I was looking at @wuvvum's Volvo when he had that briefly up for sale, and the Crown Victoria Limousine I tried so hard to get, a few people said to me "but what about the fuel economy!" and I am looking back at this and seeing the 22Mpg, that the VDP is getting, and wondering would a big inline 6 or Big V8 be any worse? I have heard they get about 15-25Mpg themselves! hence my question, would it actually be any worse LOL

 

i imagine the Mercury has Power steering?, and probably much better visibility then most moderns, so I dont see parking it being a problem, most modern blobs are massive anyhow! so I doubt the Mercury would be any worse LOL

Mercury has pretty much everything including PAS! 
The length of it is the problem. It’s like a long wheel base Sprinter van in size. Fine in less busy places but where space is more a premium it’s possibly going to limit your options a bit. 
When I drove a Sprinter daily in Portsmouth city that could be a pain in the arse at times.

It’s the 7.0 litre big block V8 in mine so you wouldn’t buy it if you cared about fuel economy.
BUT: you wouldn’t realistically be using it daily to just run around town. It’s a car you’d have for fun and to go out longer distances in, which is where it excels really. Sit on an A road or motorway at 55/60 and it’ll be pretty good on gas. Pottering around town or booting it everywhere and it will drink much more.  
You’ve also got the advantage of REV, so for local pottering about or running errands etc you can use that and get a better mpg in the process. Use the big yank or whatever you want for a bit of fun. 
Theres plenty of big American cars around tough that are still big but aren’t the full sized land yachts. Something like a Ford LTD/Crown Vic (first gen) is a big meaty lump still, with a V8, but it’s not as big and oversized as something like my Mercury. Even the smaller sedans like the Ford Fairmont are still pretty big and many are V8’s, and they still really stand out too.

Like everything, if you want something big and different and can afford it then I’d say go for it. Life’s too short for living like a peasant and economising with everything. Sometimes it’s good to enjoy yourself! Just maybe be a bit more careful how much you do use it?
 

[captain_70s]

41 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I imagine the Mercury has Power steering?, and probably much better visibility then most moderns, so I dont see parking it being a problem, most modern blobs are massive anyhow! so I doubt the Mercury would be any worse LOL

Don't underestimate a full-size Yank, while they are roughly as wide as a modern SUV they are significantly longer... Here is a new XC90 vs a mid 70s Buick...

The XC90 is about the same length as my Volvo 740, which is already longer than the standard 4.8m UK parking space!

[danthecapriman]

Don’t underestimate the overhang either. Manoeuvring them around tight city streets you might need a bit of extra turning room. 
This probably sounds dumb and obvious, but left hand drive is something you need to be comfortable with, especially in something that big. Obviously your sat on the wrong side and you need to judge where the centre of the road is against the car otherwise you can very easily be driving along partly on the wrong side or right on the centre. Overtaking is more difficult too as your on the wrong side, so visibility past whatever your overtaking is worse. Even simple things like passing a bus in a bus stop, you need to hang back a bit so you can still see past the obstruction without having to pull into potential oncoming traffic.

Dont let it put you off, it’s just one of those things that you get comfortable with after doing it for a while. It becomes second nature pretty quickly like driving normal cars.

Someone down in Portsmouth city was using a 1985 Ford Crown Vic, pretty regularly at one bit. I used to see it driving around or parked up in various places around town. There was an older Buick around too that could be seen pretty often. 
The Ford used to live down one of those Victorian terraces streets near one of my colleagues house. They used to park it in the street same as any other car. So it can be done and there are people doing it.  
 @eddyramrod used to run his Cadillac around like a normal car too.
 

[Zelandeth]

I reckon if you want the squishy Yank waft mobile but space is an issue something like an 80s Buick Riviera, Olds Delta 88 or similar would be ideal.  They're normal car sized but damned near as comfy and just as easy to waft around covering intergalactic mileages in.

[LightBulbFun]

oh I want a Squishy Yank goes without saying, why do you think I tried so hard to get that Crown vic limo a while back  but my question was more simply one about fuel economy, that it would be quite interesting to see what results would you get if you drove something like @danthecapriman's Land barge around Central London like I do the VDP/REV  if the VDP gets 22 to the gallon, would the Yank Tank really be much worse, even @Yoss's Routemaster gets like 9Mpg (not sure if that is with or without passengers/if it makes a difference!)

[danthecapriman]

17 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh I want a Squishy Yank goes without saying, why do you think I tried so hard to get that Crown vic limo a while back  but my question was more simply one about fuel economy, that it would be quite interesting to see what results would you get if you drove something like @danthecapriman's Land barge around Central London like I do the VDP/REV  if the VDP gets 22 to the gallon, would the Yank Tank really be much worse, even @Yoss's Routemaster gets like 9Mpg (not sure if that is with or without passengers/if it makes a difference!)

How do you drive your VDP @LightBulbFun ? 
Driving style has a bit to do with it, obviously. It’s much more open and remote here so I tend to get the foot down a bit although I definitely don’t drive it hard. She’s an old lady now with a drinking problem😆 presumably you can’t do quite the same around where you live? Traffic isn’t bad here either so I don’t really tend to do much slow creeping along or sitting idling.

I don’t know if maybe looking into LPG conversion is worthwhile now? I seem to remember with that fitting it to carb cars was pretty straightforward. I think you lose a bit of mpg while on gas but gain because it’s cheaper to buy? Might be worth a thought. 
There are of course diesel yank tanks around which can have certain advantages although they are few and far between now. And a bit, erm, shit! (Though I’d have one!)     
It’s a difficult one for me to give you a figure really for mpg, as I just don’t give a damn! I’ve never really bothered working it out and keeping track. It’s a fun car so I use it for fun and it costs whatever it costs. I’d expect even my Volvo and Capri would be a bit crap on fuel in urban driving, but again, I’ve never bothered really working it out, particularly on the rare occasions I’m driving around anywhere urban.

A quick (questionably reliable) google search seems to reckon 8 - 10 mpg city driving on a 73 car…
What I can tell you though is that there’s nothing else that comes close for comfort with these cars. They do literally float along. Seats and suspension are excellent for it, back in the US they were built to cover long distances in comfort so over here they have absolutely no trouble. Steering is so light you can turn it with one finger! Although that does make it feel a bit vague. They aren’t slow either! Earlier 70’s and older cars are generally better as there’s no smog junk etc etc sapping power but they have bags of torque and will get up and shift very easily. 
There’s absolutely nothing to them mechanically either. All very basic and reliable stuff. It’s just big and heavy! 
Id heavily advise anyone though to spend a bit of time prepping cars like this for use here. Most didn’t get much if any rust protection so that is an absolute must imho. Chassis tend to last well but the bodywork can start to suffer if you don’t. Even newer ones I’d do it.

 

Are there any yank tanks around in London now? There must be people still running them. I know years back you used to see them reasonably often.

 

[Yoss]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh I want a Squishy Yank goes without saying, why do you think I tried so hard to get that Crown vic limo a while back  but my question was more simply one about fuel economy, that it would be quite interesting to see what results would you get if you drove something like @danthecapriman's Land barge around Central London like I do the VDP/REV  if the VDP gets 22 to the gallon, would the Yank Tank really be much worse, even @Yoss's Routemaster gets like 9Mpg (not sure if that is with or without passengers/if it makes a difference!)

I tried working out the mpg on the bus a few times and it always came out at 12. One time was from Eastleigh where I brimmed the tank to Finsbury Park for RM 60 and back where I brimmed the tank again. 

Obviously the RM has no odometer so working out the mileage is fun. My route to London was up the A33 and A30 which runs alongside the M3 all the way and one of my atlases shows mileage between each junction so that was easy enough to work out. For the route across London I used my big London AtoZ and a piece of string! Any excuse to drive through London in an RM was taken. 

Obviously this was only ever with one or two passengers. Fill it with passengers and you will double the weight so in service 8 or 9mpg seems to be the accepted figure. 

[High Jetter]

17 minutes ago, Yoss said:

For the route across London I used my big London AtoZ and a piece of string!

I remember doing that! Dad used to do road rallies, normal cars - he had a wheeled device to measure distances on maps. Must dig it out, it must be somewhere...

[Zelandeth]

All I know is that the XJ-S used roughly 1.5 gallons per hour at idle in neutral!  

10-12 sounds about right for what I've heard from folks with a fair few old buses/coaches.  Unless you start dealing with odd cases like the horribly under-engined Volvo B7LA artics that First Aberdeen had which managed about 5mpg on a good day because they were absolutely continually screaming their heads off whenever they were moving.  Probably the same reason that the turbos and cooling systems made exploding a regular hobby.

[SiC]

VDP carb I wouldn't be surprised if it's running a bit on the rich side. Certainly smelt that way when I had it. But don't fiddle with it unless you give the carb a good service/small rebuild. The jets are probably ovalled out slightly with age. 

Also I wouldn't be bothering with super unleaded if you still are. I don't think any of the recent previous owners did...

[SiC]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

wondering would a big inline 6 or Big V8 be any worse

Carb 6/8cyl will be worse on similar journeys. Much worse on an auto box.... Sub 20mpg almost all the time and sub 10mpg if driving hard or a lot of idling in traffic.

Modern fuel injected petrol will be similar and a bit better. E.g. my 330i with a modern lock up torque converter auto box gets 22-30mpg depending on the type of driving. My Z4 2.5 manual gets 25-35mpg on similar journeys.

[LightBulbFun]

had an evening out in REV today, Mum was running low on the bread she likes, and so I decided ill grab some tubes I was eying up on FB market place, and swing by the bakery on the way back, and see how REV was doing after she played up a bit on the last outing

twas a Jaunt up the A13 to Greys and back

managed the trip, there and back and via the bakery

and got home with the goods, but it was not without issue sadly, a few more times she lost all performance and stumbled to a halt at speed again, would idle fine and respond to the accelerator jet, but I found when it died like this and i had pulled to the side of the road, even in neutral it would (ironically) not rev up at all, and if you tried to hold the throttle open the engine would stall, until I turned the engine off and re-started it,  then it would behave itself for the most part for a while, it mostly played up on the way to the sellers (sorry for anyone I held up on the A13!) she was *mostly* behaving herself on the way back but i could tell at times there where instabilities 

I am strongly suspecting its some crud in the carburettor, suppose my next course of action is try the old trick of placing the palm of the hand on the carb inlet at high revs and hope I can suck whatever it is clear... (and hopefully not just make it worse by sucking shit deeper into the carburettor instead LOL)

I do wonder if my slowly disintegrating air filter housing is to blame if some bits of rust flaked off and got sucked into the carb on my last trip, (tho i'd of kind of expect/hope would just go down the main throat through an intake valve and back out the exhaust)

I find the issue curious too how it seems to immediately clear itself when turning the engine off and restarting it, does the act of switching off the engine create some vacuum/pressure condition that temporarily clears the carb in some manner?

tis all a bit annoying not just because running issues like this are annoying of course, but there is the Flower Farm gathering on the 12th of April I want to get too, you know the one I failed to get too last time because REV's drive-belt shredded itself on the M25? so I was really hoping to make it with REV this time, and now this LOL,   seems REV does not like the idea of going to this this gathering!, hopefully I can figure out whatever the issue is and do a test run (read: buy more lightbulbs off facebook market place probably) in time before the gathering, I am not sure I want to risk potential running issues on the M25 otherwise! (obviously Ill still go with the VDP, I explicitly do want to take REV if i can)

I also am trying to think what i can do about the broken air-filter support bracket, I am a bit worried that ill hit a bump and the whole air filter assembly will fall off and bounce into someones grill LOL

but hey all said and done she did still get me home in the end today  

[captain_70s]

The air filter rust shouldn't be getting into the fuel side of the carb (where the jets are), so unlikely to be the cause of a blockage. Not that I'm familiar with the carb on your car!

However, you should probably avoid firing rusty metal flakes through the engine if possible!

[Andrew353w]

When was the ignition condenser last changed? The symptoms are similar to a failing condenser, although it could be a number of other things as well. 

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, captain_70s said:

The air filter rust shouldn't be getting into the fuel side of the carb (where the jets are), so unlikely to be the cause of a blockage. Not that I'm familiar with the carb on your car!

However, you should probably avoid firing rusty metal flakes through the engine if possible!

yeah thats what I thought as well, ill try do what I can to clean up the edge, I am still wondering how my air filter assembly of all things managed to rust out LOL

2 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

When was the ignition condenser last changed? The symptoms are similar to a failing condenser, although it could be a number of other things as well. 

I did wonder if it was a condenser failure, but I would not expect it to recover with an immediate  re-start of the engine like it did, if it was say breaking down under load/heat, I would expect it to stay dead until things cooled down. but that does remind me I will check the points to see if theres any signs of arcing etc, the condenser was changed never, because modern ones are shit, and I still need to get my hands a 0.22uf polypropylene capacitor to replace it with, I have a modern spare condenser I carry in the car just incase, but its just a green leaded bosch thing that I dont trust at all, so I figured i'd leave the original in there!

 

[Andyrew]

A little metal L braket and a couple of jubilees should sort the air filter mount out until you can get it welded. 

[LightBulbFun]

spent a few hours on REV today, to take care of some odd jobs I had kept meaning to do but which kept being pushed back by other things, and to see if I could do anything about the random dying-on-its-arse at speed

first thing I did was finally sort out the connection from the fuel tank to the main fuel line, said line from the tank was just bit of brake-line and it never formed very good seal with the 5mm fuel hose that was slid over it, so I did my first ever brake flare to act as a barb for the fuel hose. how does it look? I figured this would be a good place to learn the ropes  access was very awkward so I am pleased it formed a flair at all!

and I am pleased to report it worked just as I hoped the rubber hose was a nice tight fit over the flared end and then secured in place with a fuel hose clamp behind the barb so it cant pull back out, and it stayed nice and dry while I was playing with the engine and after the road test as well  

then I had a look at the carb

while I was poking and prodding about, I noticed that the choke cable outer sheath was loose and was sometimes not allowing the choke to fully turn off, but I re-secured the sheath in its little bracket on the carburettor and it was better behaved

I also had a look at the points, and I think they look fine to me?

I then gave the carburettor the old "lots of revs then place hand on top while opening the throttle" treatment to hopefully suck any issues clear, and then took REV on a quick jaunt up a few miles up the A12 (to Wanstead driving test centre) and back via the chippy

then finally home

where I am pleased to report REV did behave herself for the most part, only thing of note was once dying at a set of lights but she started right up and idled again after clearing herself with a cough, speaking of idle I did also tweak that up a bit as it was feeling a bit low, I also greased up her nearside door which had gone stiff, now sliding lovely again, and I also took the opportunity to grease up the sliding seat mechanism, so now that is working pretty smoothly too  

I'd still like to take her on another, longer run to see if she is back to her old self, but I am pleased that at least on this 14 mile round trip she behaved herself and that the fuel pipe fixed worked exactly as envisioned, always nice when something like that works like you envision it working! I still need to scare up something sturdy and L shaped tho to secure the air filter housing support

[Mr Pastry]

6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I also had a look at the points, and I think they look fine to me?,

What is the gap on those?   Looks a bit wide to me.

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, Mr Pastry said:

What is the gap on those?   Looks a bit wide to me.

oh thats me poking them open with a screw driver so as to try and get a photograph of them , points gap is normally 0.4mm

[Mr Pastry]

1 minute ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh thats me poking them open with a screw driver so as to try and get a photograph of them , points gap is normally 0.4mm

Ah Ok, thought it might be something like that!  

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I'd still like to take her on another, longer run to see if she is back to her old selfl

Fingers X for flower farm!

[beko1987]

Nice! Now the weather is getting better their the sorts of tinkering sessions you want to do!

That every weekend for even just half an hour, improving at least one thing you'll soon work through little gremlins and catch things before they occur and get to really know how everything's looking 👍  Even cleaning. Poke about with a cloth and some spray and you'll soon work through it! The elbow grease spray is cheap and easy to find enough if you don't want to get a 5l concentrate of g101

I caught a folded over rubber seal in my turbo air intake path whilst tutting at a small mild leak of oil (that had built up over presumably the past 40k) and solved a whistle noise I hadn't really noticed before 😂 same with a fully rusted through main earth strap on a mates car (although that cost him a £40 scrapyard starter motor in the process then we found the wire as we fitted that but meh)

[wesacosa]

replying with my usual post when anyone mentions condensers to recommend throwing them away and getting a £30 gammatronix power driver instead 

[MrBig]

2 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

replying with my usual post when anyone mentions condensers to recommend throwing them away and getting a £30 gammatronix power driver instead 

How have I never heard of these before?!? Am I right in thinking its basically a relay that is switched by the points?

[wesacosa]

3 minutes ago, MrBig said:

How have I never heard of these before?!? Am I right in thinking its basically a relay that is switched by the points?

https://ebay.us/m/HQXKdg

 

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, wesacosa said:

replying with my usual post when anyone mentions condensers to recommend throwing them away and getting a £30 gammatronix power driver instead 

I rather just chuck a few quid at a proper high quality capacitor and just be done with the issue  pretty sure 90% of issues I have seen/heard about with old points ignition setups is when a 50 year old condenser finally packs up, and then gets replaced with some shitty modern replacement, I see no reason why an old points ignition system cant perform well as long as its fitted with decent quality parts, much in the same way I have seen plenty of electronic ignition systems fail all the same due to shitty parts!

case in point here! I am genuinely surprised that given that James was/is a professional vintage car mechanic that they spent all that time fucking about and not once thought to check the modern condenser they fitted previously...

I'd just wang one of these in and forget about it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191012201833

an Automotive "condenser" is just a capacitor made to shitty 1930's technology and called such

the ADO16 workshop manual even helpfully lists the capacitance value of said Condenser, and most are about that value too, REV's I have measured as 0.22 μf (220 nf) on the dot in the past as well

 

its one of those things that have always baffled me, coming at this hobby from a lighting enthusiast/semi-electronics background, I never understood why people struggle so much with condensers when there are options like Distributor Doctor or a simple suitably rated polypropylene film capacitor available 

 

[wesacosa]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I rather just chuck a few quid at a proper high quality capacitor and just be done with the issue  pretty sure 90% of issues I have seen/heard about with old points ignition setups is when a 50 year old condenser finally packs up, and then gets replaced with some shitty modern replacement, I see no reason why an old points ignition system cant perform well as long as its fitted with decent quality parts, much in the same way I have seen plenty of electronic ignition systems fail all the same due to shitty parts!

case in point here! I am genuinely surprised that given that James was/is a professional mechanic that they spent all that time fucking about and not once thought to check the modern condenser they fitted previously...

I'd just wang one of these in and forget about it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191012201833

an Automotive "condenser" is just a capacitor made to shitty 1930's technology and called such

the ADO16 workshop manual even helpfully lists the capacitance value of said Condenser, and most are about that value too, REV's I have measured as 0.22 μf (220 nf) on the dot in the past as well

 

its one of those things that have always baffled me, coming at this hobby from a lighting enthusiast/semi-electronics background, I never understood why people struggle so much with condensers when there are options like Distributor Doctor or a simple suitably rated polypropylene film capacitor available 

 

fair enough, although the gammatronix isn't full electronic ignition it replaces the condenser and uses the points as a low voltage trigger so they dont burn out as easily. The benefit of this is you can leave the condenser in the car and if something happens to the gammatronix you just swap the wires and put the condenser back in and off you go