Jump to content

LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

Recommended Posts

Going from memory which is never a good thing :-) but I am old enough to have been driving and towing before the regs were brought in. I believe the rule was if the GVW of the trailer was less than the kerbside weight of the tow vehicle, you were allowed to display a "50" sticker on the trailer and that was the max allowed speed (the 60 for trailers came in with the regs). If the trailer/tow vehicle weights did not meet the requirements, no 50 sticker allowed and a maximum speed of 40 was enforced.

Towing was a slow hobby back then!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Saabnut said:

Going from memory which is never a good thing :-) but I am old enough to have been driving and towing before the regs were brought in. I believe the rule was if the GVW of the trailer was less than the kerbside weight of the tow vehicle, you were allowed to display a "50" sticker on the trailer and that was the max allowed speed (the 60 for trailers came in with the regs). If the trailer/tow vehicle weights did not meet the requirements, no 50 sticker allowed and a maximum speed of 40 was enforced.

Towing was a slow hobby back then!

I used to tow a Triumph Vitesse with a Vitesse on a large rented car trailer, which I remember being  legal but speed restricted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

Screenshot_20240224-1322462.png.f0e6cdb4e242648239862a714dc3568f.png

Suspect that's your answer.

A lot of folks towing with older stuff which predates the current rules technically shouldn't be and likely wouldn't be insured in an accident.

see thats what I had heard as well when I mentioned it during a zoom call, that if its not plated for it then it cant do it.

 

but then you see things like that famous Bentley race car of the 1930's towing a modern equivalent

325477016_852143066083229_1513267759055365167_n.jpg

and I cant help but think that the 1930's Bentley probably  does not have a VIN plate full of weights and measures on it like a modern does!

which raises the question when did they start listing towing weights for cars? @Weird Car's Austin Cambridge for example, I am sure would of been just the sort of car back in the day a 1950's family would tow a caravan to the seaside in or such, does it have tow ratings on the chassis plate?

 

I note that it does say in the text that you "should not" rather then "must not" I know that in the high way code, that specific wording is an important distinction, dont know if the same applies with regards to government talk, but just thought i'd mention it

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

I can't image the rubber band suspension would enjoy towing either, given it being designed for a sole occupant.

didn't realise we are talking about the Harper Mk6 now? :mrgreen:

but on a slightly more serious* note, yeah my main concern with anyone trying to tow with a Model 70 is the centrifugal clutch, I imagine if you have something too heavy, you will end up slipping it on the take up into an early death

but a Model 70 has a maximum load rating of 190Kg, so with an average person onboard of you still have a bit spare, and all that being said, KPL139P was used as a Caravan tug in a caravan park and its driveline at least has come out of it none the worse for wear (I dont think Zel replaced the clutch shoes when he fitted everything to TPA anyhow)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, captain_70s said:

Screenshot_20240224-1322462.png.f0e6cdb4e242648239862a714dc3568f.png

Suspect that's your answer.

A lot of folks towing with older stuff which predates the current rules technically shouldn't be and likely wouldn't be insured in an accident.

I can't image the rubber band suspension would enjoy towing either, given it being designed for a sole occupant.

Only 1998 onwards. Before , you could bolt a towball to the  back bumper of your Riley Elf and tow your Castleton up to the lakes, clutch and body structure allowing. That's why the regs were brought in . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to see the occasional Reliant Regal and early Robins towing trailer tents and once (in Scotland) even a small caravan. Indeed I have a magazine road test of a Regal Mk2 towing a small caravan back in the days (1950s) when such an  outfit was restricted to 30mph.   I've often seen Honda Goldwings towing small camping trailers and once saw a Goldwing with sidecar towing a trailer tent.  The only caravans I've seen in ditches or completely wrecked but still on the road were the larger types towed by SUVs, probably compliant with current load/plating regulations but piloted by speed merchants lacking in common sense and driving technique.   When towing a trailer or caravan loaded to give the recommended nose weight,  a lightweight rear engined vehicle will be much more twitchy than one with a front engine, worse still if the vehicle has excessive rear overhang.  A three wheeler adds still more sensitivity to the towing behaviour.  Add some cross wind and you've got a real handful.   Having low power is probably the least of the factors to be considered.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, captain_70s said:

I can't image the rubber band suspension would enjoy towing either, given it being designed for a sole occupant.

Rubber band you say😄 no problem whatsoever the amazon mower weighs in at 975kg plus trailer weight of around 600kg, I break its back all the time and had 4 dumpy bags of sand on the tri axle 16 ft trailer behind it.  Mind it did struggle a tad with that load,  

received_877664050187021.jpeg

20230417_115048.jpg

20231218_111839.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Warning Notice

This does not mean I like Invacars

I give you Dempsey and Makepeace S1 E2

 

Dempsey and Makepeace S1 E2.jpg

IMDB have an entry for that one,

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_122327-AC-Invacar-Model-70-1971.html

I love the comment "that weird thing on the left" :mrgreen:

 but I appreciate the heads up :) 

 

I have no idea what Dempsey and Makepeace is but every time I saw its name in the IMCDB entry it always amused me for very computer-nerd reasons :) 

as Dempsey is the codename for intel's first LGA771 Socket CPU's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_processors_(NetBurst-based)#"Dempsey"_(65_nm)

 

but speaking of the IMCDB one of the things thats always bugged me about the IMCDB, is when it comes to invalid vehicles, its very fragmented and quite a mess

not only do they have "Invacar" listed as a Model under AC

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&sortBy=5&make=AC&model=Invacar&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on

they then also have a separate Invacar entry all on its own

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Invacar&model=&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on

then they have a few Model 70's listed under "Thundersley" 

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Thundersley.html

which is not even a model or manufacture its just a location in Essex LOL, its like having all the fords listed under "Dagenham dustbin" LOL

and then Harper Invacar! Haprer itself aint even a make (kinda) it should be Stanley, Harper, Mk6.

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Harper&model=Invacar&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on

they Have Argson down as a manufacture when its a Model! again should be Stanley, Argson

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Argson.html

about the only one they have right is Tippen 

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Tippen.html

(even then that should say Frank Tippen and Sons, but at least it is properly segmented into Tippen, Manufacturer and Delta model)

 

 

and before anyone says "well why dont you fix it!" I would gladly be there to help clean them up and organise  them properly as it does seem like generally the people of the IMCDB do care about getting things recorded correctly, its just clearly no on there quite understands their invalid cars, (its fun tho because you do see the odd Autoshite username crop up setting the record straight on some of the entries :)

but I am not sure what the process is for doing that, who do you contact to organise a big wholesale reorganisation for that, the whole lot is a mess and needs going through from top to bottom.

and given how IMCDB seems to work from a manufacturer first system how would you classify Model 70's when you cant see their details? as they could be made by either AC or Invacar! again both completely different companies from each other that so happened to make the same product at the same time 

 

as I said before as much as much as it can be frustrating, it can also be quite amusing, just how everything can be so messed up when it comes to invalid vehicles,  I dont think there is any other vehicle or vehicle type, where I have heard so much nonsense and incorrect information sprouted about them! 

I mean no one goes up to @Yoss and his Routemaster and goes "Yeah Chrysler Made those right and they called the 2CV and its powered by Norton motorbike engine driving the front wheels? right and they where all government owned and banned from the road right?"

but thats exactly the sort of nonsense you will get from a large portion of the general public if you show them an Invacar! 

 

and thats one of the things that make invalid vehicles so fascinating to me, their fine details and history is so unlike any other vehicle I have ever come across, and its clear that so much of this deep history is misunderstood or not known and its been lots of fun to dig into that history the fine details and finally put the pieces of the puzzle together :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/12/2023 at 23:37, LightBulbFun said:

Looks like Simon has treated himself to an early Christmas gift :)

405458825_1267607067241136_5680160531253634138_n.thumb.jpg.b50e56fd8be8a37e7b0c3e0a83a09bc9.jpg

I know Simon does know a couple good mechanics that have gotten other machines in his collection running, so hopefully we might see LPD806D running and driving at some point :) 

 

 

I am pleased to report, that Simon and his Mechanic friend have made a start on getting LPD806D back into running order :)

428358243_781149290730105_1799023040271395620_n.thumb.jpg.118bfa69770ceb44b3604542ef262f72.jpg

engine was seized, then un-seized, but its been discovered that water had been leaking through the engine cover at some point and has wrecked the Dynastart, but this is where Simons stash of Trysull cars and what have you came in handy as he was able to pinch a good looking Dynastart off an Invacar Mk12 :) 

428433753_628099786116004_1236779326485369480_n.thumb.jpg.ac09588df77672bdd3d4554f9c9276cd.jpg

and I have been keeping Simon up to speed with all the technical in's and outs' (I am fortunate enough to own a handbook for the AC Acedes)

and I have also pointed him in the direction of @AdgeCutler's "posts made by him" page and his youtube channel which pretty much is a "how to completely restore your Invacar" guide :) 

https://autoshite.com/profile/29392-adgecutler/content/page/12/?type=forums_topic_post

 

so hopefully before not too long now we might need the Hammond Acedes go for a ring-ding-ding down the road :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

This all reminds me of a customer of mine back in the late nineties back when I owned a testing station.

I had a fairly good customer called Kent Roofing who ran Cabstars and had in his front garden a scruffy Humber Sceptre with a reg that was four numbers and then KR.

The guy kept asking me about doing him a favour and quickly writing out a ticket for the Humber so he could put the KR reg on his Mercedes. After a few months of continued pestering I said get the car to me and I will put it through a "gentle MOT test" and go from there.

It was towed over to my place and I had a look over it and to be fair it wasn't too bad but there was a lot of surface corrosion and panels like the sills were weak but you couldn't push through them or the brake hoses and pipes were perished but just about ok. Cleaning up the brakes and sorting some poor electrical connections got the car capable of passing the test although it was anything like road ready as the coolant hoses were rock hard,the rad leaked and the fuel tank has rust in it that kept blocking the filter and carbs.

The bronze paintwork was shot and the once prestige interior was very poor with mouldy carpets and seats and the lacquer was flaking off the dash and door cappings.

Anyway I did eventually past it after much fettling and replacing of many bits and pieces and I wrote out a massive list of advisories on the VT30 (pre computerised days) too.

Hand on heart on the day I wrote out the MOT certificate the old Humber had met the minimum requirements to gain pass but ten mile down the road or a week later who knows.

The KR plate soon got swapped onto the Mercedes and the Sceptre got sold on never to be seen again.

thats very interesting! as theres a Private AC Acedes thought to still survive today, that was originally registered 9771KR, but it was sadly robbed of its number plate in the mid 1990's and given the age related plate BFW598B (despite the fact an Acedes is not a vehicle of a MOT'able type, so should not of been allowed to have been robbed of its plate regardless)

74930264_590249695079705_6032684667092598784_n.jpg

image.png

74526657_726350621196100_1442295901132423168_n.jpg

so I have to wonder, your Mate was not involved with this one also was he? 

 

 

very curiously as well as an aside to this, as well as 9771KR, 1350KR is also another private Acedes, sadly not known to still survive, but I find it very interesting, how there where 2 so close together like that, registered to the same county council etc, almost have to wonder if his and hers Acedes?

screencapture-vehicleenquiry-service-gov-uk-VehicleFound-2020-02-03-01_24_03.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...