invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[chadders]

16 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

One thing I’m curious about is what makes you ‘check in’ on your cars DVLA record, and why by the sounds of it do you do it daily?!

Too much of a coincidence for you to have by chance checked in on the very day they issued a new V5?!

Ive only ever checked any of my vehicles if I’ve forgotten when the MOT runs out, just curious as to why you’d need to constantly check in on it?

I've found this very useful:

https://www.gov.uk/mot-reminder

[JJ0063]

20 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

TBF it has at least reminded me to check some of mine and my van is due for MOT on 27th Feb, so thanks LBF.

Yes but for Dez his car is tax and MOT exempt 😂 I appreciate it still has to be taxed but let’s face it, Dez is on the ball enough that he’s not going to forget when to tax it - hence being curious as to what makes him reg check it so often

[Rod/b]

1 minute ago, JJ0063 said:

Yes but for Dez his car is tax and MOT exempt 😂 I appreciate it still has to be taxed but let’s face it, Dez is on the ball enough that he’s not going to forget when to tax it - hence being curious as to what makes him reg check it so often

I don’t think he’s got much else going on.

[Rust Collector]

40 minutes ago, chadders said:

I've found this very useful:

https://www.gov.uk/mot-reminder

You can only have two cars per phone number though, if I recall correctly. I tried to add all mine recently and found this out.

[Dobloseven]

26 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

Yes but for Dez his car is tax and MOT exempt 😂 I appreciate it still has to be taxed but let’s face it, Dez is on the ball enough that he’s not going to forget when to tax it - hence being curious as to what makes him reg check it so often

Bear in mind he's not seen it for two years!

[Jim Bergerac]

1 hour ago, chadders said:

Just as an additional point if data is being or has been manually entered then most data entry clerks won't give a damn about whether it's an invacare or whatever. If it fails validation they'll find a code that it will accept, often using one they've found to work in the past. In my experience this is very rarely found out as nobody can be bothered to check, it's not a matter of life or death. I've been guilty of this as I was one for a few months after leaving uni whilst I decided what to do.

Obviously it is important with some systems but certainly not this one in my opinion.

This. 

Having also worked in this area, sometimes you find people are even actively encouraged by management to use a nearest match rather than have a new code created or to use free text. 

[Rust Collector]

15 minutes ago, Jim Bergerac said:

This. 

Having also worked in this area, sometimes you find people are even actively encouraged by management to use a nearest match rather than have a new code created or to use free text. 

I started my career as a purchase ledger clerk and I definitely didn’t* just lump things into the nearest suitable code if they didn’t fit neatly inside the available choices of descriptions. If you set up a new code then that would normally upset a management accountant somewhere.

[LightBulbFun]

ok to bring up some context since people seem to a bit lost, despite knowing of the whole Invacare thing seeing how its use liberally around the forum these days!

 

INVACAR, did have a proper make on the DVLA, it was/is ZA

(AC (ELECTRIC) is Z0 and TIPPEN DELTA is Z5 for those curious) 

and all was tickety boo for INVACAR on the DVLC/DVLA for almost 50 years (1st of October 1974 is when the DVLC computer record was setup, and remember AC and Invacar Model 70's and Tippen Delta's where are all still current serial production vehicles back then, so the DVLC gave them proper make codes),

 

but then at some point in I think Mid 2023, the DVLA updated its computer system to have proper make model codes, for mobility scooters

 

and this is a good thing it means now mobility scooters can be tracked for statistical purposes and will better show with online tools and the such like, this I like (they introduced a dedicated V55/MV form for registering mobility scooters and other invalid carriages)

 

but the problem is, one of those companies that make Mobility scooters is called "INVACARE" note the difference in spelling, this is a US company that, has nothing to do with Invacar

 

but I highly suspect that when someone came to setup all the mobility scooter make model codes on the DVLA, someone came to do Invacare, saw "INVACAR" and likely thought "oh its already there but someone left an E off the end, let me add that E back on" not realising that Invacar is a completely separate company

thus they then just fucked over, almost every single currently taxed INVACAR, because the make code suddenly decoded to Invacare and not Invacar

thus every time the vehicles data refreshed for any reason, a keeper change, address change, vehicle getting SORN'ed or Taxed, it would ping from "INVACAR" to "INVACARE"

 

this is why dormant vehicles, are currently not effected, and not every single taxed vehicle's has gone wonky just yet, (but I think its only a matter of time before it does, TWC for example was un-effected, until just recently when she too pinged wrong)

 

but for example at the time of writing this JBY503J still shows up correctly as INVACAR because its still cached that way, but if you put it into the ULEZ checker or as above, total car check, which gets its lookup table data from the DVLA, you will see it shows up as Invacare

(and with systems like this that dont rely on cached data, *all* Invacars show up incorrectly)

 

basically whats pissed me off is, everything was correct as it should be, INVACAR has a make code and all was well in the world *until* someone at the DVLA fucked that up

I think I am within my right to want them to try and undo what they fucked up, am I not? especially when it effects ones own vehicle

(im not asking the DVLA to setup a new code or anything like that, I just want them to fix INVACAR's existing one, thats existed since 1974!)

but as above rather then do that, as of how it shows up currently now, it seems they literally papered the cracks and shoved a bunch of wob into the rust instead... 

 

so it looks fine on the outside, but its not to anyone else, but underneath its anything but, and surely people of Autoshite can understand that analogy if nothing else  

[JJ0063]

Still curious as to why you reg check your car daily (if not daily-ish)? ☺️

[garbaldy]

But what does it matter surely they are all MOT and tax exempt anyway nothing will change that.  🤔  the only difference I can think is one can go on the path. 

[egg]

4 hours ago, chadders said:

Obviously it is important with some systems but certainly not this one in my opinion.

Yup, as someone who previously audited NHS data quality over quite a few years, it does matter if say you've coded the wrong operation or appointment date etc. As you mention data entry is often done by employees who don't have a lot of training etc.

However, 99% of errors are just mistakes rather than malicious intent or genuine fraud/gaming of the system etc.

[D.E]

49 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

but as above rather then do that, as of how it shows up currently now, it seems they literally papered the cracks and shoved a bunch of wob into the rust instead... 

They couldn't invacare less, I think...

Be glad you're not dealing with the RDW, they enter makes and models manually and often make typos. I've seen Kadett spelt as Kadet, Cadet, Kaddet and other varieties. Slighty annoying if you are, for example, trying to search the data to find out how many of a model are left, but not exactly the end of the world. Personally, I'd advise to get REV back asap and get some use/enjoyment out of it, regardless whether the DVLA calls it an Invacar or Invacare.

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

Still curious as to why you reg check your car daily (if not daily-ish)? ☺️

partly same reason I have been keeping an eye on most other currently taxed invalid vehicles, its what I do, its how I spotted the initial fuck up in the first place  

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/311/#comment-2783070

and the other part, will be explained in good time, once/if this 8th of Feb 2024 V5 arrives and I see what if any cover note comes with it and I decide how I want to take it from there

 

there have been things going on behind the scenes, I have had correspondence with the DVLA over the issue, and in my letters I have explained the issue in detail, and from speaking with them on the phone, at that juncter in time, it sounded like they where aware of the issue (the lady mentioned my case, had notes on it mentioning make codes) although this sudden V5 is a bit of a mystery to me (I have no had any response or communication to say that I should be getting one etc)

but I have been otherwise keeping quiet on this Invacar/Invacare thing, because well last couple times I posted about it, it just lead to load of permanent piss-take, so why would I post about it if no one here is really that interested in it, and will just take the piss out of me for it

I dont come here to get the piss taken out of me in such a manner 

 

it is for me an issue that is very serious and quite distressing, but I know that in just say saying that, ill probably just get laughed at, because fuck how the person feels right lets just laugh at them and tell them how its no big deal, never mind it is a very real issue to them

 

it just feels almost like school yard bullying to me, like constantly calling someone "4 eyes" when the people know that person is particularly sensitive about the fact they have glasses 

[Sheefag]

The internet is not a 'Safe Space'.

[garbaldy]

31 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

just feels almost like school yard bullying to me

Ffs  sensitive much 🙄 

32 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

like constantly calling someone "4 eyes"

Strange as from what I've read I've not seen anyone calling you 

[Rod/b]

What practical difference does it make in the real world what is printed on the V5? 
 

Where I live they accidentally misread my driving license when they translated it so now I’ve got a full HGV licence. Makes absolutely no difference in the real world so I don’t worry about it. It’s been like that 8 years now. 

[Mr Pastry]

Dez, if people are taking the piss, it is because you seem to be taking your favourite subject far too seriously.   Most of the digs are intended to be good natured,  maybe not all, but that's life.  It's all about old cars at the end of the day, and having fun and (occasionally) transport from them.  They are just old cars, nothing more.  To use your analogy, does it really matter if there is a bit of wob in the panels?

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Dez, if people are taking the piss, it is because you seem to be taking your favourite subject far too seriously.   Most of the digs are intended to be good natured,  maybe not all, but that's life.  It's all about old cars at the end of the day, and having fun and (occasionally) transport from them.  They are just old cars, nothing more.  To use your analogy, does it really matter if there is a bit of wob in the panels?

are they tho? its pretty clear that a lot of the people posting in my thread, currently are not regulars of this thread, and have just come out of the wood work to make digs at me and the issues I face

and yes this is a very serious issue for me, thats the whole point, Invacars mean the world to me, and I thought Autoshite is one of the few places where that might be understood

you know the forum for where people with interests in the unloved, are understood for why they have those interests/love the unloved, and are welcomed for it

 

I always thought Autoshite, was more than just an "they are just old cars" forum if that makes sense?

[NorthernMonkey]

14 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

I always thought Autoshite, was more than just an "they are just old cars" forum if that makes sense?

It always has been, @LightBulbFun but what you must also understand is it’s become as successful as it is because of the way people have always been able to get along, take the piss, help each other out and generally form a community without getting upset that someone has said something they disagree with.

You are more than welcome to partake but you must be prepared to fit in with the general ethos of the place. There are plenty of members who have gone out of their way to help you and offer advice but you need to stop getting so upset when the popular opinion doesn’t go your way 🙂

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Dez, another alternative could be to post on RR? 

[SmokinWaffle]

 

7 hours ago, JJ0063 said:

One thing I’m curious about is what makes you ‘check in’ on your cars DVLA record, and why by the sounds of it do you do it daily?!

Too much of a coincidence for you to have by chance checked in on the very day they issued a new V5?!

Ive only ever checked any of my vehicles if I’ve forgotten when the MOT runs out, just curious as to why you’d need to constantly check in on it?

 

6 hours ago, JJ0063 said:

Yes but for Dez his car is tax and MOT exempt 😂 I appreciate it still has to be taxed but let’s face it, Dez is on the ball enough that he’s not going to forget when to tax it - hence being curious as to what makes him reg check it so often

 

3 hours ago, JJ0063 said:

Still curious as to why you reg check your car daily (if not daily-ish)? ☺️

How about because he fucking wants to? Not everything has to have a reason that is okay with everyone? Not everything needs an answer? Enjoy the content rather than the reasoning.
 

The intricacies of some systems/how they work is very interesting to some people, myself included. If it's not interesting to you (not directed at you - but if a party doesn't find it interesting), that's fine - but perhaps everyone doesn't need to constantly take every opportunity to go "hurr durr why u do dis thats not normal u r loser"  and make someone feel like they are being singled out?

It is like schoolyard bullying, it's like if someone had a toy or lunchbox that was a bit different and all of the passive bullies who think they're funny and smart keep going "Why do you carry that around" "why do you play with that all the time" "why do you do X at X time at X age",

Then when the teacher comes along they go

"I WASNT DOIN NUFFIN I WAS JUST ASKIN A QUESTION CANT I ASK QUESTIONS NOW"

Christ almighty

2 hours ago, Sheefag said:

The internet is not a 'Safe Space'.

True, but that doesn't justify people being so judgemental or make the thinly veiled jabs okay. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, correct - but that doesn't mean you can go banding it around without recourse. Eg -  if you're racist then you're entitled to hold that opinion and I can't stop you (as much of a shitty one as it is) - but if you go outside and start shouting racial abuse chances are someone is going to pull you up on it. I'm sure the police office who arrests the person will undo the cuffs when they say "ThE wOrLd AiNt A sAfE sPaCe M9!!" .

 

Nothing is a safe space, but there is common courtesy and kindness. but I think AS is enough of a community for someone to be able to post about their interest in their own thread without people making pathetic weird comments like:

6 hours ago, Rod/b said:

I don’t think he’s got much else going on.

Not to give you too much of a shocking reality check @Rod/b - but you're on a forum of mostly middle aged men dedicated to old shit cars and their intricacies, in the middle of a Saturday, making childish jabs at someone who is trying to share something they find interesting in their own thread.  Chances are you don't have "much else going on" either. 

[wuvvum]

34 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Dez, another alternative could be to post on TDW?

EFLOLZ

[Sham]

First and foremost, LBF,  it isn't your thread. It's a thread you started on a discussion board. It is polite to remain on topic, but other than that... It's just a discussion thread.

I don't care at all about invacars, but I'll still post if I feel I have something to contribute.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Yup, as someone who previously audited NHS data quality over quite a few years, it does matter if say you've coded the wrong operation or appointment date etc. As you mention data entry is often done by employees who don't have a lot of training etc.

However, 99% of errors are just mistakes rather than malicious intent or genuine fraud/gaming of the system etc.

I used to do occasional admin work at a doctors' surgery and most of what I was doing was producing reports and auditing data.  I went in a couple of days a week when during my Uni holidays to do it.

In the whole practice, there were two of us that actually understood the records system properly.  We had one doctor that didn't know how to code anything, so literally everything was wrong and he never bothered learning the proper codes.  I can't remember if he entered a default code for everything (e.g. 'other') or if he just left it blank but it always created havoc whenever we were trying to produce a report because we knew 20% of the data (one doctor out of five) was going to be unreliable.

He never understood the impact of what he was doing and didn't seem to notice the frustration.  I consider that kind of ineptitude rude and ignorant.

Similarly, we have a ticketing system at my work now and it is mandatory that any customer-facing work is ticketed and communications run through the ticketing system.  Members of the team that don't do it create real problems for the rest of us.  Aside from the obvious customer and communication issues it causes, it's just plain inconsiderate and creates totally unnecessary work for other members of the team - especially when said customer calls in, can't find records of a previous call and makes the other agent look like a tit.

Honest mistakes I can absolutely live with - but there are plenty of people out there that don't have the basic skills to understand the impact that their working praxis causes for others and demonstrate that they are incapable of working in a team.  If they don't change it should eventually lead to disciplinary action and potential dismissal.

[RoverFolkUs]

I know, create a splinter forum just for Invacars! That will work! It did last time we needed one! 🤣

[richardmorris]

6 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

You can only have two cars per phone number though, if I recall correctly. I tried to add all mine recently and found this out.

Yes…

but goodness knows why there’s a limit.

[chadders]

5 minutes ago, Nyphur said:

Lets spend hours trying to train Terry on how to properly code all his inputs so that the reports run correctly, at £xxx an hour

vs

Just pay the PFY to code it properly after the fact, at £x.xx an hour

Yes.

He's a doctor not a data entry clerk and has little or no need to understand the system. It's not rude or ignorant as he didn't understand the impact what he was doing, he's got far better things to do with his time. If you're doing a responsible job you prioritise the use of your time and data entry tends to be near the bottom of the list, you can always use some uni arts grad to fix it.

[chadders]

Overnight back ups?

[Dick Cheeseburger]

32 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

EFLOLZ

[GrumpiusMaximus]

15 minutes ago, Nyphur said:

Lets spend hours trying to train Terry on how to properly code all his inputs so that the reports run correctly, at £xxx an hour

vs

Just pay the PFY to code it properly after the fact, at £x.xx an hour

So then you're expecting the PFY to understand the difference between a Bronchoscopy with Washings as opposed to a Bronochscopy with Brushings based upon some quickly scrawled notes in a patient record.  Or between the different types of hysterectomy.  Or pain relief applications.

Some of these codings have been in place for 30 years.  That's the whole career of a highly experienced doctor.

I'm not a doctor by any means - but sometimes these nuances can be very important and the person best equipped to understand the difference is the clinical practitioner.  Otherwise, you're going to have to expensively train the PFY to understand the difference based upon those notes.  Which is really inefficient.  And this is in a clinical context where it can literally be a matter of life and death.  Incorrect data can have serious clinical consequences, delay diagnosis and in extreme cases cause harm to the patient.

Make the system as user-friendly as possible by all means.  Make it all searchable.  But being inept and lazy is just that, inept and lazy.

It's not like the IT industries where nobody is going to die.  Sure, it's annoying if somebody classifies an incident as spam as opposed to phishing but when the data is highly nuanced,  specialist and impactful, you can't realisitically expect PFY to compensate.