invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[R Lutz]

I see @chadders has just replied before me along similar lines. 

[DodgeRover]

  On 28/01/2024 at 19:18, Dobloseven said:

I reckon we ought to get Guy Martin on the case!

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He's not that brave/ stupid.

Let Dez take it over the mountain and round the IOM TT course...

[The Old Bloke Next Door]

  On 28/01/2024 at 21:09, DodgeRover said:

He's not that brave/ stupid.

Let Dez take it over the mountain and round the IOM TT course...

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That would make a great new Dollywobbler video.

[busmansholiday]

  On 28/01/2024 at 21:09, DodgeRover said:

He's not that brave/ stupid.

Let Dez take it over the mountain and round the IOM TT course...

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  On 28/01/2024 at 21:15, The Old Bloke Next Door said:

That would make a great new Dollywobbler video.

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I'm sure Dez has pictures on here of some old time racing of Invalid carriages. We could recreate it by shipping all the surviving ones over there for a race. @dollywobblerwould probably end up a multi millionaire from the resulting YouTube video.

[Dobloseven]

  On 28/01/2024 at 20:31, chadders said:

When I was growing up they were a common sight.

They were considered contemptible contraptions despite the respect given to their drivers, the war still being very much in people's minds. At least where I lived the view seemed to be that they deserved better. 

No one would have believed that people would drive one voluntarily.

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All good points,but what would the alternative have been?Normal cars had heavy low geared unassisted steering.Brakes and clutches were heavy as well.Automatic transmissions on modest vehicles were rare.As HMC points out,they were a stepping stone to better things.But pretty well everything from the past is a stepping stone to something better.Why keep steam locomotives running for example? They're great if you're a retired school teacher who likes to volunteer.But if you had to get up every morning to fire the bloody things up to put food on the table ,it probably wasn't much fun.An old boy in MrsDs band who used to be a fireman on the railways ,wrote a book about his memories and a lot of it was bloody grim.Anyroad up, hopefully REVs impending return will be a stepping stone in Dezs life,as he doesn't want to move on till then.Best of luck fella!

[warren t claim]

  On 28/01/2024 at 21:49, Dobloseven said:

All good points,but what would the alternative have been?Normal cars had heavy low geared unassisted steering.Brakes and clutches were heavy as well.Automatic transmissions on modest vehicles were rare.As HMC points out,they were a stepping stone to better things.But pretty well everything from the past is a stepping stone to something better.Why keep steam locomotives running for example? They're great if you're a retired school teacher who likes to volunteer.But if you had to get up every morning to fire the bloody things up to put food on the table ,it probably wasn't much fun.An old boy in MrsDs band who used to be a fireman on the railways ,wrote a book about his memories and a lot of it was bloody grim.Anyroad up, hopefully REVs impending return will be a stepping stone in Dezs life,as he doesn't want to move on till then.Best of luck fella!

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IIRC, I remember an advet in a hand me down 1967 copy of Autocar from a company called Wilsons (I think) that converted Anglias for disabled drivers.

[warren t claim]

  On 28/01/2024 at 14:41, Dick Longbridge said:

I can see both sides of the issue. 

Dez, like many of us, specifically wanted a certain type of car and had to wait some time before the right one with the right price came along . Then came the excitement of trying it out and just enjoying finally owning it.

Then reality kicked in and the search for someone with the required skillset to get it roadworthy began. I'd say the events with Adam were unfortunate; on paper he seemed the right guy for the job owing to his previous work on his own and his seemingly detailed understanding of them. I don't think anyone could have foreseen the car coming away from there unfinished. 

Moving forwards, it was a noble gesture of red5 to take the car on in between his day job responsibilities. Two years ago, I guess Dez wasn't in a particular rush to get the car on the road, didn't urgently need a daily driver and was prepared to wait for a few months for repairs to happen. Not knowing the full story, obviously weeks have become months and then years, with no obvious end date for the car to be ready in sight. Is it months away from hitting the road? A couple more years? Without two way communication, the guessing game will continue, frustrations will continue to grow and advice from middle-aged blokes on the internet will keep filling up this thread whilst piss-taking from some will continue relentlessly elsewhere. 

If Dez had a day job which required a reliable daily driver, I'd say buy a £2k modern and let the guessing game with the blue one continue. 

However, Dez's current circumstances don't align with the above, so a blue three wheeler as the sole pottering wagon doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

I'm sure most would also agree that opinions on whether you should or shouldn't drive it as your sole transport are absolute pish until you've given your chosen motor a decent regular testing over weeks and months. Until then, you're never going to know whether it suits you or not, regardless of what others say. 

Dez is a young, polite chap, who's clearly frustrated and probably fed-up of being told what he should or shouldn't do. Yes, I'm aware I'm adding myself to that list.

I've tried to keep quiet for as long as possible on the matter, but just want to share one piece of advice based on personal experience. 

If you want something in life, you need to go out there and get it.

 

 

 

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But reality and dreams are not always the same thing. 

I wanted an Espada when I was 18 and had the cash to buy one. The reality is that I'd have killed it within three months and been left with an unfixable driveway ornament.

Fast forward 35 years and I was seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Lancia Thema 8.32 funded by a government bounce back loan. 

In both cases sanity prevailed.

[Dobloseven]

  On 28/01/2024 at 22:14, warren t claim said:

IIRC, I remember an advet in a hand me down 1967 copy of Autocar from a company called Wilsons (I think) that converted Anglias for disabled drivers.

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Think there used to be some sort of way the footbrake and clutch could be operated by hand controls with some vacuum assistance,but would think the best the steering could do would be a knob on the wheel and don't think there were ever automatic Anglias.

[Sheefag]

[Dick Cheeseburger]

  On 28/01/2024 at 22:21, warren t claim said:

But reality and dreams are not always the same thing. 

I wanted an Espada when I was 18 and had the cash to buy one. The reality is that I'd have killed it within three months and been left with an unfixable driveway ornament.

Fast forward 35 years and I was seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Lancia Thema 8.32 funded by a government bounce back loan. 

In both cases sanity prevailed.

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An Espada at 18 though...

[warren t claim]

  On 28/01/2024 at 22:27, Dick Longbridge said:

An Espada at 18 though...

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Your point being? They were just £8000 cars at the time. No worse than buying a £18000 Maserati 3200 today.

[Snake Charmer]

  On 28/01/2024 at 22:24, Dobloseven said:

Think there used to be some sort of way the footbrake and clutch could be operated by hand controls with some vacuum assistance,but would think the best the steering could do would be a knob on the wheel and don't think there were ever automatic Anglias.

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Our neighbour had an Austin 1100 with hand controls for throttle and brake, he had a tin right leg. When he died we had the car for parts and scrapped it, low mileage with immaculate red interior but absolutely rotten and I remember the throttle hand control smacking my knuckles when I drove it.

The 1100 and Mini were available with automatic gearboxes.

[wuvvum]

A few years back a mate of mine had a Riley 4/72 automatic which had been converted from new with hand controls - throttle behind the steering wheel like a modern flappy paddle, and brake on a BFO lever next to the driver's seat.  With the steering wheel being as massive as it was in Farinas it wouldn't have been overly heavy to drive.

[High Jetter]

  On 28/01/2024 at 19:24, red5 said:

Yes, yes and yes. 

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Top work. I guess you'll be glad to see the back of it (holding your breath, obs)

[egg]

We can all sleep soundly in our beds tonight, REV is almost fixed, it will be back in Dez's dead end soon enough, phew. 

[LightBulbFun]

I think its worth pointing out that as I mentioned here

https://autoshite.com/topic/19386-six-cylinders-motoring-notes/page/512/#comment-2923017

contrary to popular belief, the Ministry *did* supply adapted regular cars

but as @Dobloseven puts nicely, theres only so far you can take a regular car 

 

and thats where the Invalid Vehicle (Carriage) came in,

a mechanically propelled vehicle which is specifically designed and constructed, and not merely adapted, for the use of a person suffering from some physical defect or disability

 

they where designed ground up for the disabled person in mind, and infinitely adapted to that persons needs

 

and the overwhelming majority of users considered themselves very thankful to have their Invacars and the freedom and independence it gave them

they where hardly seen as "state sponsored genocide" by the users that had them

 

I think this is no more telling then when the mid 1970's at the hight of the Invalid Carriage controversy that the Government said "ok we will be withdrawing all Invalid vehicles by 1981"

 

thats when finally the silent Majority, finally spoke up and went to protest in *favour* of the invalid tricycle and thus the end of the Tricycle only finally came about some 23 years later in 2004!

keep in mind that the Motablity scheme was introduced in 1978, and every Invalid vehicle user had the choice to switch if they wanted too

  On 05/12/2023 at 23:45, LightBulbFun said:

as for his campaign, it (and the campaign against the machines in general) was very much was a vocal minority and the media running away with things sadly. Invacars where *the* thing to hate and cause controversy on in the 1970's

when it was announced in 1976, that the scheme was closing, and that by 1981, all invalid vehicles would be withdrawn from service

there where big protests in favour of the tricycle, by the silent majority who suddenly realised they where in real danger of losing their mobility, and thus the 1981 date was scrapped, and it was only in 1998 that an end date of the 31st of March 2003 was finally laid down

 

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its worth noting that the prejudice put against them is overwhelmingly from abled bodied people that have never driven one, or spent any significant time using them, they are simply just regurgitant the same stuff the sensationalist media put out 50 years ago

 

and I see people bring up the argument of "oh but they singled out disabled drivers for ridicule" and I get where people come from with that

 

however, surely thats a problem with society at large there? why it should it matter if they stand out or not, its only because people are discriminatory/derogatory towards the disabled that it is a problem that they stand out.

 

even today, theres an entire thread on this forum about cars and how they are always associated with a certain type of person

the giffer in the Yaris for example, is that not just the same as how people would talk about the disabled person in their invacar?

are you saying we should get rid of Mobility scooters or wheelchairs because they single out the disabled?

 

thats what people dont realise about the Invacar, is it was meant to be a tool, just like a wheel chair, or set of crutches, to help a disabled person mobilise, and for that, I think they did their Job perfectly, and how well they can work even as a regular car, is a testament to how well they did work, especially the Model 70 in that regard

 

and what people dont realise is they where just issued like any other set of NHS equipment, its not like the Motablity scheme where you have to go through a long and painful PIP application. and the Motablity scheme is not "free" either, it takes from your allowance and often times you have to pay an upfront cost as well.

where as an Invacar was provided completely free of charge and you even got paid a petrol allowance too

 

I think the Motablity scheme is a great thing, and I dont think it should be gotten rid of in the slightest, but I have always thought that comparing it to the Invalid Vehicle Scheme was never quite a correct comparison 

in the same way you dont compare a Citroen Ami Electric, to a Citroen C3

 

in some regards it really quite interesting just how heated the Invacar, makes people.

how people refuse to see them objectively, a Model 70 by a sum of its basic parts, is not that much different from say a Steyr Puch 500 or Steyr puch 126, plenty of people have done long trips in those for example, yeah there are better cars out there, but those vehicles can still do the job they where designed for of getting people from Point A to point B and I see no reason a Model 70 cannot either. as has been clearly demonstrated by Zel and Dollywobbler among others

 

but even outside of this thread/the forum, invacars seem to stir up trouble

more often then not, online if I come across a facebook post on an Invacar, its not long before the comments get turned off etc...

 

 

i'd also like to point out that

I dont have some hatred of modern cars, its simply the mater of the fact, I just want REV first and foremost  

people dont seem to realise, that I just want REV first, after I have REV then ill start worrying if I want a modern and if so, what sort of modern that is

its likely pretty certain that I wll eventually end up with one, since @warren t claim put forward the excellent idea of using a WAV to store a mobility scooter in.

 

but right now my priority is REV and I wish people would understand that.

[warren t claim]

  On 28/01/2024 at 23:45, LightBulbFun said:

 

people dont seem to realise, that I just want REV first, after I have REV then ill start worrying if I want a modern and if so, what sort of modern that is

its likely pretty certain that I wll eventually end up with one, since @warren t claim put forward the excellent idea of using a WAV to store a mobility scooter in.

 

but right now my priority is REV.

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There's a saying that goes something like "either take a shit or get off the pot".

[JJ0063]

I don’t personally have any issue with the car itself and my opinion and offering of advice would be no different to any tiny, 1970s, barn find type unrestored vehicle attempted to be swung into daily use as an only car.

What I do find a bit odd is that if it’s as clear cut as you simply do not want another car until you’ve seen for yourself how trying to use the invacar day to day doesn’t work, why have we had the debacle of the past few months of you trying to insure every vehicle under the sun, replying to for sale threads on here showing interest to members selling various cars, contacting sellers on eBay and FB. people spending time trying to help you make things a reality if you actually have no intention of doing anything and don’t want another car regardless? 

I know if this post isn’t ignored, you’ll reply saying it’s because everyone’s been pushing it on you, but that only came about because you posted initially instigating wanting a second car.

Im not going to contribute to this thread further at the moment as I genuinely think @red5 sounds like he’s done a great job and you need to get it back, book it in with a garage to have a final once over and last bits tidied up so you can attempt to use it, then realise why all this advice has been given.

[dean36014]

Too be blunt, I think a lot of the hatred of invacars on here was because when you first came on this forum you spammed it non stop with the things. Admittedly you don't do it as much now but the rust had set in.

Anyway, I wish you all the luck with it. My recommendation would be, after years of running older obscure cars, would be to snap up old stock spares so you have a source of parts on hand incase of breakdowns. 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 29/01/2024 at 00:16, JJ0063 said:

I don’t personally have any issue with the car itself and my opinion and offering of advice would be no different to any tiny, 1970s, barn find type unrestored vehicle attempted to be swung into daily use as an only car.

What I do find a bit odd is that if it’s as clear cut as you simply do not want another car until you’ve seen for yourself how trying to use the invacar day to day doesn’t work, why have we had the debacle of the past few months of you trying to insure every vehicle under the sun, replying to for sale threads on here showing interest to members selling various cars, contacting sellers on eBay and FB. people spending time trying to help you make things a reality if you actually have no intention of doing anything and don’t want another car regardless? 

I know if this post isn’t ignored, you’ll reply saying it’s because everyone’s been pushing it on you, but that only came about because you posted initially instigating wanting a second car.

Im not going to contribute to this thread further at the moment as I genuinely think @red5 sounds like he’s done a great job and you need to get it back, book it in with a garage to have a final once over and last bits tidied up so you can attempt to use it, then realise why all this advice has been given.

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actually no, I never asked for a 2nd car.

the 2nd car WAV/taxi thing, came about in the Limo debacle and was something @warren t claim instigated 

its a very good idea, but its something I wanted to investigate and make my own informed decision about before I make any purchases

exactly as I explained in this post

https://autoshite.com/topic/55689-should-lightbulbfun-buy-a-used-hackney-as-a-daily-driver/page/2/#comment-2850345

I was not ready to start asking about it, but I went with the flow of the thread since WTC started it anyways and (along with a few others) was very kindly providing good/helpful advice, but I do wonder if I should of just asked him to delete it instead if this is what it leads to, yet more berating and arguing etc

 

however people have been telling me to get K11 Micra's long-long before then, as far back as page 12 of this thread to be exact, no matter how many times I make it clear that I appreciate the advice and I get it, but

I rather people save their willingness to give advice for when its actually asked for, and why does it have to be repeated over and over, sending this thread into circles over and over

I have always known from day 1 that a Citroen C1  or such is the most sensible route, so this whole debacle goes way back before even WTC's thread and way before I even remotely expressed interest in a WAV, so long before I ever "asked for it"

 

  On 29/01/2024 at 00:16, JJ0063 said:

why have we had the debacle of the past few months of you trying to insure every vehicle under the sun,

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its mainly been various TX4 London black cabs I have been trying to insure, the only other vehicles I have actively called up an insurance company on the phone for have been the crazy weekend that was the Limo, a Trabant and the Kangoo WAV

hardly, what I would call "every vehicle under the sun" now?

 

  On 29/01/2024 at 00:16, JJ0063 said:

replying to for sale threads on here showing interest to members selling various cars, contacting sellers on eBay and FB. people spending time trying to help you make things a reality if you actually have no intention of doing anything and don’t want another car regardless? 

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and as I explained here, its not like invacars are the *only* vehicle i like

  On 24/01/2024 at 19:27, LightBulbFun said:

im surprised someone didn't bring that up sooner

that was my "fuck it!"

 

going back a few posts,

I dont think people realise just how disabilities can be really fucking frustrating, so at that point I was literally just going to hell with it 

because I am just fucking sick and tired of this bollocks

 

so many opportunities I have had to pass by or lost because of my disabilities, its no secret all the cars that have cropped up for sale that I comment on that I like but have had to pass on because it was just unworkable or not practical for example

people even take the piss out of me here because of it

so for once I was just going to fucking do it, but sadly insurance scuttled that plan, but It still makes me smile just thinking about it now  

 

(thats also a big reason I have REV in the first place, I was/am not going to let life take *this* away from me, that I am determined to prevent)

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there are plenty of others that I like,  however as far as going to actively looking to purchase one, I have only ever contacted 1 seller on eBay about a car and that was a black cab, and only one person on Facebook, and that was the Kangoo 

 

otherwise its just been me expressing general interest in cars on here,

am I not allowed to express interest in something I like, without it getting scrutinised and having to explain myself and questioned at every word? 

its not that I have no intention of ever owning another car, its just *right now* especially given the fact its been 2 years already, I only want REV back,  and I want to be able to have all my resources on hand to getting REV back and on the road

and its this unknown of not knowing whats going on with REV for large chunks at a time which is why I have in the end always bailed out of getting any other car even ones that really appeal to me

(and the fact is that when it comes to the older cars like say the recent Renault 4, I am *well* aware they are an older car and all the foibles that comes with, im willing to do battle with REV in regards to that, but I do otherwise realise that due to my situation it would not be wise for me to own another old car)

as everyone knows here, even owning a modern car can be an expensive pain in the arse, so I dont want to have to worry/deal with that while also having to deal with the whole REV situation

 

again especially with regards to this thread, can I just be allowed to focus on my Invacar please? is that too much to ask for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[warren t claim]

Don't blame me! I was only trying to help! 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:39, warren t claim said:

Don't blame me! I was only trying to help! 

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not at all trying to, just trying to clarify some points made so that everyone has the full picture so to speak  

[warren t claim]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:44, LightBulbFun said:

not at all trying to, just trying to clarify some points made so that everyone has the full picture so to speak  

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I even PM'd you my mobile number!

[Back_For_More]

Can't sleep - this is better than Netflix! 

[warren t claim]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:48, Back_For_More said:

Can't sleep - this is better than Netflix! 

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Stiff penalties exist for those who share passwords both on here and Netflix.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 28/01/2024 at 18:51, red5 said:

As pm'd to Dez.

It has an actual functional (new) throttle and choke.

It has a partially unseized distributor. I'm reluctant to attempt to remove it in case it breaks..

It's appropriately tuned.

It starts as it should.

The braking system functions correctly, fluid was changed and cylinders filed to function on floating backplate. 

It stops, as well as they can. 

The throttle cables routing now should be ok and not likely to stick on (saved by previous  hugely sticking brake system I suspect).

The lethal fuel pump and pipework is mostly (as much as it can be) removed and restored to original fuel pump (mechanical).

I have emptied the engine cowl as much as possible of the nuts? that were blocking fins.

The Heinz 57 carb now functions and doesn't leak. It also has working accelerator pump.

I will check it starts as per Monday.

I will check front wheel bearing/kingpin play.

I will refit rest of throttle assembly and attempt to repair the slightly butchered column switch assembly (I suspect it has been switched sides or off another vehicle).

I will (correctly) refit ignition barrel after checking wiring repair still functions.

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thank you very much for the list, its very awesome to have a run down of whats been done, so I/we now have some idea what state REV is in  

 

tis really awesome to hear the carb might actually be behaving itself, fingers crossed it plays ball on a cold start  

and I look forward to hearing what you find regarding the front wheel play  

 

on the indicator stalk front, there is a small locating dowel/square peg on the inside of the indicator stalk, make sure this is lined up with the round hole for it that is present in the handle bars

when the stalk was replaced at Adam's it was never lined up properly, so it pretty quickly fell off, once I got it lined up it was nice and secure

I took some details photos of the setup in this post here

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/242/#comment-2453095

  On 18/01/2022 at 16:27, LightBulbFun said:

I also managed to solve the issue of the floppy indicator stalk which im quite pleased about!  (as I thought it would be one of those PITA jobs)

simply turned out the little retention peg on the indicator stalk 

had not been located in the hole for it in the handle bars! (theres one either side as the indicator can be either side depending on your preference/disabilities etc)

once I made sure it was suitably located, things where rock solid, and it even solved the issue of the stalk fowling on the cowling which is nice  

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hopefully that can be of assistance (the indicator stalk setup on a Model 70 is intentionally side agnostic, it is made to be switchable according to the users disabilities or preference) 

if it helps this is how she was originally setup 

 

  On 28/01/2024 at 19:08, Dobloseven said:

Any idea of the 0 to 62mph time?

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  On 28/01/2024 at 19:13, red5 said:

Not without earplugs, a hill, and my bike leathers. 

Got it up to 20mph on test drive (on drive). 

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your selling yourself short  you got her up to at least 25Mph if your video below is to go by  

  On 08/06/2023 at 11:40, red5 said:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5EyqtDBoUj47X7JRA

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although hopefully she can hit 62Mph without the use of a hill! a Model 70 in a good state of tune/good health should be able to cruise at 60Mph and even hit 70Mph+ albeit noisily 

 

so if you think she feels sluggish enough that she wont hit 60Mph, then that would be good to know, generally if such performance issues are encountered even with a well tuned engine, its because of the CVT system being frumpy

they dont like 20 years of sitting around getting rusty! its one the things I am eager to find out on REV, is just how healthy is her pulley system and if they will need replacements

(I have secured at least one compete replacement pulley set just incase to be safe, and I belive you should have one spare driven (no 2) pulley in the bag I sent down with REV)

 

it certainly sounds like its shifting smoothly in the video at least however so I take that as a good sign  however yeah the only way to know for sure, is to actually take her up to speed and see how she performs, but I have never been able to do so for for obvious reasons!

 

but Zel has a couple nice videos of him driving TPA around the place  which may help you familiarise yourself with what a healthy Model 70 goes/sounds like

 

 

[brandersnatch]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:39, warren t claim said:

Don't blame me! I was only trying to help! 

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  No good deed goes unpunished. 

[R Lutz]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:39, warren t claim said:

Don't blame me! I was only trying to help! 

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So YOU say.

[R Lutz]

  On 29/01/2024 at 01:28, LightBulbFun said:

however people have been telling me to get K11 Micra

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I can sort you out with a cracking K11. 

[chadders]

  On 29/01/2024 at 06:08, brandersnatch said:

  No good deed goes unpunished. 

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As @JJ0063 found out 'big time' ; mind you he did do multiple good deeds.