invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[bobdisk]

  On 22/06/2021 at 18:28, LightBulbFun said:

in other news I got myself a new Toy I mean piece of vital test equipment

a Bench top variable DC power supply, 0-30V at a max of 10A, been meaning to get one for a few years now finally bit the bullet got one 

as they are very handy for powering up low voltage stuff as shown for example powering one of the Routemaster/Bus bulbs @Yoss kindly gave me a while back  

and obviously very handy for electronics work and the such like  

and fun for figuring which of my Automotive lamps are 12V or actually 13.8V, for example the Wotan p45t Halogen retrofit lamps @Mrs6C/@Six-cylinder kindly gave me a while back look to be rated at 12.0V (12V*5A=60W which matches the rating of this lamps high beam filament which is what I have lit in the photo)

but some Automotive lamps although they say "12V" thats more of a Nominal thing and are actually rated for 13.8V due to the higher system voltage when charging

so yeah very pleased to have one of these finally after putting it off for so long! its nothing fancy but it gets the Job done well  (and yes I did take it apart to make sure it was relatively electrically safe given its a low end unit from china I got from amazon!)

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@LightBulbFun Can we have a better pic of the front please. If its the same as one we have at work, it has a peculiar way of setting the maximum current output. 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 23/06/2021 at 05:14, bobdisk said:

@LightBulbFun Can we have a better pic of the front please. If its the same as one we have at work, it has a peculiar way of setting the maximum current output. 

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here you go  

with one of the Soviet/Russian bulbs From @Zelandeth Lada

he kindly gave me a few of em 2 21W indicator bulbs and the smaller one above, after I mentioned in passing I had no soviet/russian lamps in the collection (I think I just got the 1 smaller bulb, at least I hope so or it means Iv already lost one!)  but these automotive bulbs they are quite funky, oh so very soviet in construction yet E marked etc, its weird to see these western approval marks on something of such soviet construction!

anyway im guessing the peculiar way you set the current on the ones at work is similar to this one where you set a small voltage say 5V then short the output leads together so it goes into constant current mode, and then set the current limit with the current adjust knobs then

[bobdisk]

Yes, exactly the same as ours! Ours is a "Uniroi". We got 2 a couple of months ago.  Apart from the odd current set, they are very good.

[Crackers]

[Crackers]

*mumbles something into his chest about too much spare time and lack of sleep...*

[LightBulbFun]

twas just doing some invacar sluething as you do and I came across this neat post  

https://www.facebook.com/SirusAutomotive/posts/4113316525356637

which explains how exactly the whole L plate thing worked back in the day, something I have been wondering about

I knew the test was a motorcycle style test, but I was still not sure how exactly it worked with L plates before you passed your test, its interesting to hear there where driving lessons complete with instructor crammed in there!

[bobdisk]

Trouble is, Faceslap want you to log on to your account to see anything. I dont have one, and dont want one.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 24/06/2021 at 05:06, bobdisk said:

Trouble is, Faceslap want you to log on to your account to see anything. I dont have one, and dont want one.

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thats why I have screen-shotted the post in my post above, so those who very much understandably dont want anything to do with FB can still see it  

but if the text is a bit small/hard to read here it is quoted directly

  Quote

The AC Model 70 Invacar. (Nicknamed THE NODDY CAR).
I have very fond memories of the AC Model 70 Invacar, this was a specialist car which some people in those days called an invalid carriage; it was designed and built for those with disabilities in the 1970’s. A lightweight one seater 3 wheeled car with a fibreglass body and a sliding door on each side, usually with tiller bar steering although one or two did have a steering wheel. Braking was quite easy you simply pressed down on the tiller bar motorcycle-style handlebar.

They were powered by 500cc air-cooled engines, some allegedly had a 600cc engines combined with a very smooth automatic, variomatic type belt-driven transmission, they could reach speeds of over 70 MPH with some disabled drivers claiming to have “allegedly” reached speeds of over 80 MPH. A good friend of mine, he got stopped for speeding in his model 70 on the A153, in-between Sleaford and Grantham in Lincolnshire, but got away with a friendly warning.
The earlier model Invacars, I understand had motorcycle engines fitted, so the model 70 was quite an improvement on the older model. 

Some people even had names for their model 70 like Jalopy, mine it was called the Noddy Car locally by many villagers. They were not the most stable of cars on the road in bad weather, despite the fact they didn’t have a radio fitted, they would most certainly “ROCK” and “ROLL” very well in windy weather conditions. Some model 70 drivers have described their past experiences from the 1970’s and early 1980’s has “TERRIFYING” but ”EXHILARATING” although they enjoyed the freedom of going out independently in their invacars.

The Model 70 was issued to disabled people in the days well before the launch of the Motorability/Mobility scheme. Certain people meeting a certain criteria would be issued with an Invacar, giving them far more freedom and independence. I was issued with mine about 6 months after losing out on an employment opportunity through having no transport just before my 18th birthday and very quickly put the L plates on it. 

There was no passenger seat, but the driver seat did slide sideways making transferring from a wheelchair much easier. You could also carry a folded up manual wheelchair at the side of the seat. 
Driving lessons were part the issuing agreement, so my driving instructor knelt in the tight wheelchair space at the side of me for the first few lessons, possibly not totally legal but there wasn’t really any other options. You could also drive on L plates without taking a test, which I did initially. The driving test was basically a motorcycle test; you circled around town and the driving examiner ran between street corners with his clipboard. 

I did about 40.000 miles in my little NODDY car without too many problems, although I did have one or two throttle cables break and recall using the choke to increase the engine revs so I could creep home very slowly on one occasion. 
Fond Memories of the AC Model 70 Invacar.
Dick Clarkson Young
Disability/Community Issues.

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[LightBulbFun]

been doing some internet sleuthing and uncovered a few neat pictures of a couple Model 70's I knew about but had few details on  

 

first of all is a couple more pictures of this Model 70 which I came across a while back on an web auction archive site

and I think @dollywobbler will enjoy the picture! (especially since said Model 70 was apparently unearthed on a driveway somewhere in wales)

with the poor front missing in the way it is, it looks like a Giant mini comtesse LOL, it was given its nose back thankfully! (It was clearly cut off cleanly I wonder if that was for recovery purposes or done for some other reason) sadly what became of it afterwards and what its ID is are sadly unknown

 

and the second lot of pictures I came across is of a (I think Invacar) Model 70 in India, I knew about this one, but had very little in the way of details and no pictures, well now I have a few pictures but still not many details

I do wonder if this one is JHJ548N which is the only other potentially surviving Private Invacar Model 70 I know of, but which sadly fell off the radar so to speak in 2008-2009 (its another machine I have no pictures of sadly, but the features of this Model 70 match with what JHJ548N would have had, ie a Mark B on 12 inch wheels etc )

its interesting how various people  make do and mend with what they have on hand with regards to replacing the rear lights 

its also interesting to see its got another gauge on the dash board of some kind I wonder which it is

sadly I dont know the current status of the machine, I think it was last for sale in 2010 in Karnataka India, but what happen to it after then I dont know sadly

but im still happy to finally have found pictures of it  

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Any updates on Rev LBF? 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 26/06/2021 at 19:22, Dick Longbridge said:

Any updates on Rev LBF? 

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the whole fuel tank situation is sadly still being a pain in the side! but otherwise adam does not seem to be worried about anything else he is very calm about it!

I thought perhaps he was waiting until KPL was done, but he was like "nah just trying to solve the fuel tank situation then we can crack on with it"

fuel tank otherwise, I get the distinct impression this is like getting a sledge hammer to crack a chestnut  

(I think Adam is trying his hardest to source some original factory/Ministry fuel tanks before resorting to fabricating something up)

 

 

in the meantime she is in good company tho  I think hopefully she will finally be getting a wash in in the meantime! (at least I hope so!)

its interesting how much paler she is compared to KPC and GTW (will be interesting to see if that changes at all when she is washed LOL)

there really is 50 shades of Invacar LOL

 

there is also the small problem of the fact I still dont have my licence

but things have been progressing there I have my 3rd test booked for the 21st of September

and driving lessons have been going very well with the new instructor, I actually feel like im improving and making progress rather then standing still

and im getting much more confident in my busy Dual carriage way lane changes and busy roundabout joining  (which im very pleased about, as those had been an issue for me for a good while)

[Dick Cheeseburger]

That sounds positive, for sure. As you say, great news that Adam has taken the old girl under his wing. He certainly seems to crack on pretty rapidly once he's started. It'll be good all in good time I'm sure - it sounds like you could do with a bit of a delay in the meantime anyway. Great to see yours parked with the others too! 

[LightBulbFun]

in other Invalid vehicle news

in my research to gather more information on the AC Cars Ltd, AC EPIC (Electrically powered indoor chair) MoH/DHSS Model 102 I Think, (research is very much still on going on this one, hence why I have not done a full write up on it yet)

 

I came across this neat article/web page on all things Harding invalid carriages  

https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1950-harding-rideinease-rotary-tricycle/

its very interesting see all the period adverts and catalog extracts

of note is this interesting Fitting form, interesting to see how manufacturers tried to fit their machines to a users disabilities/restrictions

and this period advert, just because of also the All Days and Onions advert in the same page

as its not the first time Iv come across them and I find it amusing, how everything I seem to come across ends up in the company of something Invalid vehicle related LOL

  On 13/08/2020 at 13:09, LightBulbFun said:

"ALLDAYS&ONIONS" did the DVLC clerk accidentally look at his or her lunch time crisps packet when registering this one then? LOL

 

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  On 13/08/2020 at 13:43, quicksilver said:

As unlikely as it may seem, Alldays & Onions was a real company formed by Mr Alldays and Mr Onions - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alldays_%26_Onions

There were all sorts of strangely-named small manufacturers in the early days of motoring, many of which didn't last beyond the 1920s. Lacoste et Battman is another that sticks in my mind. 

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[barrett]

I always thought Alldays & Onions should have merged with Hadfield Bean to form Beans & Onions Ltd

[High Jetter]

  On 28/06/2021 at 17:45, barrett said:

Alldays & Onions

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Now that's a proper company name, not like these new-fangled things like Hypus or Glowfy

[dollywobbler]

Loving that Facebook post about Invacar happenings. Makes a change from the usual "THEY SHOULD GIVE THESE OUT TODAY NOT BMW 4X4S" and other drivel you usually get any time Invacars are mentioned. 

Fitting as well as the last time I drove TWC I'd had to limp back to the garage on the choke! Hoping to have her up and running again this week. Then perhaps we can get on with organising an Invacar meet. 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 28/06/2021 at 18:38, dollywobbler said:

Loving that Facebook post about Invacar happenings. Makes a change from the usual "THEY SHOULD GIVE THESE OUT TODAY NOT BMW 4X4S" and other drivel you usually get any time Invacars are mentioned. 

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Yeah I always shake head at those, but those comments always also amuse me, because if only they knew just how hard I, as a Disabled person was trying to get on the road with an Invacar, to finally get some personal independent freedom of mobility 

it would probably break their minds a little bit

  On 28/06/2021 at 18:38, dollywobbler said:

Fitting as well as the last time I drove TWC I'd had to limp back to the garage on the choke! Hoping to have her up and running again this week. Then perhaps we can get on with organising an Invacar meet. 

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glad to hear theres a plan to get TWC back in action soon! I look forward to seeing/hearing more on it  

[LightBulbFun]

in exciting Model 70's news 

(thats probably going to make @AdgeCutler go "Oh FFS!" Sorry!)

while talking to stuart just now and going over some dusty old Ministry paperwork together he came across the Ministry colour specifications that a 1970 Model 70 should be

and it gives an actual British standard 2660 (BS 2660) colour code! at long last we have an official Paint colour code for "Ministry blue"

"pigment shall be incorporated in the resin so that the final colour is to BS 2660, colour code 7 - 083 (light blue)."

and if you search BS 7-083 you do get a close colour called Ribbon blue

but its interesting how it has Light blue in brackets, is that just the ministry saying that it is light blue or are they saying Light blue is the name of the colour

although doing a quick search I dont think there is a BS 2660 colour called "Light Blue" so I think its just the ministry saying that BS 7-083 is a light blue sort of colour, rather then "Light blue" being its actual name

 

will be interesting to see if anyone here can get a sample and see how well it matches an existing machine   (and I will tag @Zelandeth and @adam1db given there are Model 70's in need of paint there!)

 

we also came across where the Ministry got the Model 70's exhaust/heat exchangers from  (at least in 1970)

"combined heat exchanger/exhaust silencer unit (david worthington ltd serial number DW 100)"

its very interesting to hear it was a relatively off the shelf item

but sadly I cant find anything on that doing a brief search, im guessing the company went pop long ago sadly

[Weird Car]

In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

[LightBulbFun]

  On 01/07/2021 at 18:13, Harriytait said:

In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

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ah awesome! glad to hear things on MPU are progressing  

I wonder on the fibreglassing front if it might be worth getting some other fibreglass objects of no value, that you can cut up then try and join together again with your kit

maybe see if you can get some damaged reliant body work of some kind or such to experiment with? so if something goes irreveserbly wrong its no big deal and you can get your technique down pat  

and that way your not doing trial and error on hard to get/replace body work like your Mk12 rear end,

 

a bit like how someone learning to weld would probably start out on joining random bits of scrap metal together, before making up and trying to weld new Sills into their project Austin Metro for example  

 

[Mr Pastry]

  On 01/07/2021 at 18:13, Harriytait said:

In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

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I haven't been following this, so apologies if you know this already.  There is no harm in leaving the cardboard in place as a stiffener, and laminating all over inside and outside.  Obviously it has to be pretty close to the required profile and you end up with a rather thick panel, but that will happen anyway if you are finishing it off with filler.   Nobody will ever know, and it will be good and strong.  It is important to get good overlaps onto the old mouldings, preferably tapering the edges down to blend them in, so that the new panel is keyed in properly and actually sticks.   'Orrible mucky job but you are on the right lines.

 

 

[Weird Car]

  On 01/07/2021 at 19:15, Mr Pastry said:

I haven't been following this, so apologies if you know this already.  There is no harm in leaving the cardboard in place as a stiffener, and laminating all over inside and outside.  Obviously it has to be pretty close to the required profile and you end up with a rather thick panel, but that will happen anyway if you are finishing it off with filler.   Nobody will ever know, and it will be good and strong.  It is important to get good overlaps onto the old mouldings, preferably tapering the edges down to blend them in, so that the new panel is keyed in properly and actually sticks.   'Orrible mucky job but you are on the right lines.

 

 

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Thanks, that's really helpful advice it's all a learning experience for me and I appreciate the help. Same goes with your advice @LightBulbFunI'll have a look at my local Recycling center for some old glass fibre off cuts or what have you and have some good practice goes before attempting it on the panel again. 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 01/07/2021 at 19:22, Harriytait said:

Thanks, that's really helpful advice it's all a learning experience for me and I appreciate the help. Same goes with your advice @LightBulbFunI'll have a look at my local Recycling center for some old glass fibre off cuts or what have you and have some good practice goes before attempting it on the panel again. 

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another tip worth mentioning is 

@Zelandeth and @adam1db seem to have had quite a bit of success with some fibreglass paste kind of stuff, I think the stuff Zel used is called fibral or something like that

https://autoshite.com/topic/29443-zels-motoring-adventuresjag-citroens-mercedes-ac-model-70-3006-business-as-normal/page/53/?tab=comments#comment-1825895

(im sure they can advise what exactly it is they use)

but from what Iv seen it seems to be much easier/better to use and more forgiving to use then trying directly deal with runny resin and bare fibreglass matting

(I know adam has had some good success taking the bare fibreglass matting and just impregnating/squashing the fibreglass paste material into it for example)

[Mr Pastry]

  On 01/07/2021 at 19:27, LightBulbFun said:

another tip worth mentioning is 

@Zelandeth and @adam1db seem to have had quite a bit of success with some fibreglass paste kind of stuff, I think the stuff Zel used is called fibral or something like that

https://autoshite.com/topic/29443-zels-motoring-adventuresjag-citroens-mercedes-ac-model-70-3006-business-as-normal/page/53/?tab=comments#comment-1825895

(im sure they can advise what exactly it is they use)

but from what Iv seen it seems to be much easier/better to use and more forgiving to use then trying directly deal with runny resin and bare fibreglass matting

(I know adam has had some good success taking the bare fibreglass matting and just impregnating/squashing the fibreglass paste material into it for example)

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P40 paste.  Very useful especially for small areas (and for sticking the bits together temporarily before you start laminating) although it is relatively expensive and not a strong as a proper layup.  However you can mix it in small quantities so there isn't much wastage.    

[Mrs6C]

Just seen this on eBay...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303999496302

[LightBulbFun]

  On 02/07/2021 at 22:52, Mrs6C said:

Just seen this on eBay...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303999496302

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was wondering when that would pop up here  indeed its been sitting in my watch list for a little while, 

but I appreciate the heads up regardless  

it was originally up for auction but no one bid, so its been up for Buy it now for a while now

id of purchased it, however I was informed that there is a copy elsewhere on hand waiting to be scanned in should I need it it so I decided to hold off bidding and save the money since it was otherwise not immediately required etc

if it drops in price tho I may pick it up still however as its still nice to have physical copies  

(and you never know what extra info might be lurking inside, I know for example it was customary for people back then to write the registration mark of your vehicle into the paperwork you got with it and the manuals you had for said vehicle etc)

so its on the watch list  

 

the ebay pictures did confirm to me that the Invacar Badge did indeed say "Westcliff Essex" before they moved to Thunderseley Essex, which was something I was wondering about

[mitsisigma01]

Did you look through his 25000+ other items.!!!!! 😮

[AdgeCutler]

  On 01/07/2021 at 15:49, LightBulbFun said:

in exciting Model 70's news 

(thats probably going to make @AdgeCutler go "Oh FFS!" Sorry!)

while talking to stuart just now and going over some dusty old Ministry paperwork together he came across the Ministry colour specifications that a 1970 Model 70 should be

and it gives an actual British standard 2660 (BS 2660) colour code!

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Not to worry, I'm fairly confident that the paint I had mixed is a fair representation of the colour my Mk12e was but we shall only truly see after application. 

Yesterday I found what looks like a date marked on the front body panel when I removed the rubber tread mat from the footwell. I'm fairly confident that is what it is at least despite the fact it is pretty much scrawled on and what I assume is a seventy looks more like a forty, it is definitely written in date format.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 04/07/2021 at 09:57, AdgeCutler said:

Not to worry, I'm fairly confident that the paint I had mixed is a fair representation of the colour my Mk12e was but we shall only truly see after application. 

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yeah hopefully your paint being bespoke matched means it will match your car very well, regardless of what the actual colour is supposed to be etc  

  On 04/07/2021 at 09:57, AdgeCutler said:

Yesterday I found what looks like a date marked on the front body panel when I removed the rubber tread mat from the footwell. I'm fairly confident that is what it is at least despite the fact it is pretty much scrawled on and what I assume is a seventy looks more like a forty, it is definitely written in date format.

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now thats very interesting , the Model 70 bodywork is similarly full of similar markings, but I have never been able to make many of them out, I do wonder what they mean exactly

im not sure yours is a date, I think its 19/D/4D or something such (although the first D is backwards for some reason?)

I was wondering if one of those D's is to denote Invacar Mk12D but im pretty sure they tweaked the front bulkhead to suit the Parallelogram front suspension with the Mk12E which yours is of course

but perhaps they managed to get away with only modifying the chassis to take the Model 70 suspension and where able to avoid any fibreglass changes

in that case the 12D would make sense as that is when the last fibreglass changes happened otherwise (with the 12D introducing 7 inch head lamps vs the 5 inch head lamps of the 12c and earlier)

but sadly I have not seen a Mk12D in enough detail to tell if they shared the same bulkhead or not

although the DHSS parts list does list the Mk12D and Mk12E as having different front body/nose sections, so that would indicate that Invacar did have to change some of the fibreglass for the Mk12E

[martc]

'Hospital for Veterans of the Great Patriotic War', Kherson, Ukrainian SSR, 1959. Photo by Leonty Olkhovsky.

We've already discussed the Soviet equivalent to the Invacar; but to summarise these are SMZ S3A's. Like an (early) Invacar they have a rear mounted two stroke engine, but in this case it's a single cylinder 346cc engine (which could be from IZH, makers of the Klashnikov assault rifle and motorbikes, the IZH Planeta has a single cylinder 346cc two stroke engine). Phun phact the Russians called the SMZ an 'invalidka'.

Two models were made, one with seats and one for wheelchair users; each version had the usual range of adapatations dependent on the users disabilities.