Project Dollywobbler's Invacar - Ongoing

[John F]

Might be an idea to pop your plugs out & see if you have compression when turned over on the starter, Ian - that'll be kinder to a small battery, and will confirm whether starting is a possibility or not.

 

Then you can add checks for spark and fuel as time permits .

[dollywobbler]

Well I'm not going to have compression with the plugs out am I?

 

It must be said, the engine is easy to turn all the way through. There is no stiffening up as you approach compression.

[John F]

Yep, if you use a compression tester (or even a finger over the hole)

 

Did it turn over nicely on the starter?

[dollywobbler]

Yes, it turns over quite merrily. Can't get a finger easily near the spark plug hole as it's buried between cooling fins. I think what I really need is an assistant. It's a pain in the arse trying to do everything solo. Sadly Mrs DW is otherwise engaged.

[Mally]

 

 

On the plus side, I confirmed that the oil pressure light goes out when cranking. It's green! Who fits a green oil pressure warning light?!

 

Issigonis.

[Asimo]

I wonder why they went to the bother of using a distributor?

A double-ended coil would seem to be much cheaper and simpler. Twin cylinder Fiat 500 and some Triumph twin motorcycles used a distributor also. Potty.

Any distributor cap /rotor arm issues, pinch the coil from the Citroen!

[dollywobbler]

I wonder why they went to the bother of using a distributor?

A double-ended coil would seem to be much cheaper and simpler. Twin cylinder Fiat 500 and some Triumph twin motorcycles used a distributor also. Potty.

Any distributor cap /rotor arm issues, pinch the coil from the Citroen!

 

That would indeed be handy. As it is, I don't have any cars that share ignition components with the Invacars. May have a Metro coil kicking about somewhere. I think that's worth a try.

[Zelandeth]

Green oil pressure light - late Volvo B58 and early B10M coaches I think...or was that yellow now I think about it.  VW used green on the old Beetles and early Transporters too I think...

[bunglebus]

Green oil pressure light - late Volvo B58 and early B10M coaches I think...or was that yellow now I think about it.  VW used green on the old Beetles and early Transporters too I think...

...and a yellow full beam light on the bus I had.

[plasticvandan]

Such a typical autoshite approach for a first start, don't clean or check anything,crank over asimlessly until battery flat... Clean points, Get spark,fuel down plug holes,should fire.possible carb clean,and she will run.

[dollywobbler]

Damn right. I don't see the point in replacing a load of stuff that might be ok. I'd rather try and get some indication of the engine's health first.

 

Points are now clean, spark was observed, but far from cranking aimlessly, I was working through the various items until cranking started to get slow. Then I thought the best thing to do was stop and have a cup of tea, dig out the old Omega battery and charge it up overnight.

[plasticvandan]

Wasn't having a go dolly,maybe I'm just too eager to hear it run!

I would be surprised if it needs much,yes its been stood,but its responded well so far.These things were religiously maintained,serviced every 3 months and a full deep service every 12.

[dollywobbler]

I think I was a little over-eager too to be honest. Yesterday was perhaps a little too encouraging. Still, I've got no time constraints and an entire day to play with tomorrow, though I need to spend a little time lashing down the spares car ahead of the storm...

[Zelandeth]

...and a yellow full beam light on the bus I had.

 

Still is on Volvo's I think.  Was on the last one I had out, 2007 B7R if I remember right.  Later B10M, B10BLE and B6 had an odd greyish colour for it that might have had some origins in yellow.

 

Main memory of the B58 was that all the legends had rubbed off so you had to remember which light was which.  Below is an actual quote from between me and one of my mates when retrieving one of his wrecks.

 

"Um...John.. we've got a warning light..."

"Which one?"

"....Um...Yellow!"

"Come again?"

"Uuuuumm...B-3...and it goes out when I turn left."

 

From memory it was the one for coolant level.

[captain_70s]

Poverty spec Doloshites have a green oil light, red is reserved for the ignition...

[PhilA]

Oil pressure is an excellent sign. At least this way there's a moderately good chance all the moving bits have had a modicum of lubrication before any kind of heavy load of placed on them.

 

Got any of those little neon traffic cone things to put on the plug wires to see that the spark is going where it's meant to when it's meant to? Clip-on starter button also a useful item in this instance.

 

Phil

[dollywobbler]

I think I found some yesterday. So, I'll try and do a finger compression test if I can, then go spark hunting.

[dollywobbler]

Ok. On the cylinder it's easy to get to, we definitely have compression. You can hear it chuff as you turn the engine. 

 

I have a spark at the points, but it doesn't seem the sharpest. I've changed coil, no difference, changed to the condenser from the spares car (which has been off the road even longer), no difference. Running out of options without spending money on some ignition bits! Very irritating that it's all so very different from the 2CV. 

[chaseracer]

Given that they've been in a field for fifteen years, spending a bit on such consumables might yield results... 

[John F]

dollywobbler, on 06 Dec 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:dollywobbler, on 06 Dec 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Ok. On the cylinder it's easy to get to, we definitely have compression. You can hear it chuff as you turn the engine. 

 

I have a spark at the points, but it doesn't seem the sharpest. I've changed coil, no difference, changed to the condenser from the spares car (which has been off the road even longer), no difference. Running out of options without spending money on some ignition bits! Very irritating that it's all so very different from the 2CV. 

 

Are the plugs getting wet? If not, the carb may need fettling...

 

Also, check for a spark at the plug by placing it on e.g. an (earthed) engine casing. A spark at the points might not arrive at the plugs if the leads or caps are borked.

[dollywobbler]

Yes, the plugs are getting wet, which is encouraging. Leads might be worth a shot. I'll have to see if I've got any replacements. Omega battery back on charge. It managed all of about three cranks!

[plasticvandan]

spark at the points...what colour?is it sparking when cranked?if so condensor is shot.spark at the plugs is whats needed

[Talbot]

Take the plug out and put it in one end of a jump lead with the other end of the jump lead clamped to the engine. If you have no visible spark, work backwards until you do.

 

Just for tesing purposes, real ignition leads are not essential. I have had an engine running on bell-wire before now. I just suspect it wouldn't have lasted very long.

[dollywobbler]

spark at the points...what colour?is it sparking when cranked?if so condensor is shot.spark at the plugs is whats needed

 

It's a bit yellow and spurty, not the sharp blue I was hoping for.

[Talbot]

You should have no spark at the points.....

[John F]

dollywobbler, on 06 Dec 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

It's a bit yellow and spurty, not the sharp blue I was hoping for.

 

A yellow spark suggests a weak coil and/or condenser.

 

Does the 2CV have points ignition? If so you ought to be able to test the Invacar system with a coil from that.

[dollywobbler]

A yellow spark suggests a weak coil and/or condenser.

 

Does the 2CV have points ignition? If so you ought to be able to test the Invacar system with a coil from that.

 

2CV system is entirely different. No distributor for a start, so the coil is entirely different too. Found an old Mini coil that I thought might be worth a go.

 

You should have no spark at the points.....

 

Er, yes, you should.

 

Anyway, probably going to end things today. The aux belt tensioner has arrived for the Lexus, and I should probably focus on fixing cars already on the road...

[Talbot]

Er, yes, you should.

 

A spark between the points?  As they open and close?  That generally means the condenser is fubar, your points will burn out very quickly indeed and the spark at the spark plug will be pap.  The whole point of a condenser is to control the speed that the current in the primary coils of the coil (that sounds all wrong!) drops, and hence the speed at which the magnetic field in the coil changes.  it also means that the voltage across the contacts of the points is *very* briefly maintained as they are opened, hence you should have no spark (or possibly a very very small one, barely visible)

 

Remember, the points are just a switch for +12v.  You should *never* have a big fat blue spark there.  If you have, something has gone very wrong between the LT and HT sides of the coil.

[John F]

This ignition animation is quite nicely done:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W94iksaQwUo

 

A spark at the points implies that the condenser isn't doing its job properly.

[Christine]

Come along Ian , you're stuck in the welsh mountains..no coat or food .. and there's a massive storm coming ..you MUST get it going to stay alive ...!!! Smash an old radio up for some capacitors to bodge it up , Nick one off a mower ...anyfhink ...!!!   Pull your finger out and get it running ,!! The suspense is killing me