Reginald Nutsack's K-series Kapers - ROVER 623 MOT GUFF

[cort16]

Remember when you got it and it looked like a bargain? If you do finally get it to work you will be known as the k-series whisperer.

[Parky]

With the amount of prep you have done, coupled with the fact you have used pretty much the best of the best in replacement parts, how can this thing NOT run like a dream when you put it back together?

 

Fingers crossed for you Mr B

[Pillock]

They were never intended to be lovingly built with care and attention. They were designed to be built by cynical frustrated Brummies and all the tolerances are specced with that in mind.

 

That's why the VVC locks up when tightened. You need to put the bolts in finger-tight then call a tea break.

[DeeJay]

And leave a couple of ciggie stumps and half a buttie in there.

[DeeJay]

Good luck.

[mouseflakes]

  On 07/08/2014 at 22:17, Mr_Bo11ox said:

That's very neat. Looks like you'd be a dab hand at piping birthday messages onto cakes or applying denture adhesive.

[Parky]

I came across this again which may or may not aid the coolant bleeding process. Only useful if you have a vacuum pump but you can probably jury rig something

 

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=315806&highlight=pela

 

It's quite clever and might be a way to eradicate or reduce the chances of any pesky air locks

[Pillock]

I've got a Pela pump and I reckon there's some cored bungs in the shed from brewing stuff. I don't think I'm far away from where you work from memory Boll, it you want to try.

[Cheggers]

Will it live, will it die, will it tip Reg_Boll over the edge in the process...the suspense is unbearable.

[mat_the_cat]

I'm so confident it will live that I'm already well into the celebratory drinks.

[Parky]

I haven't seen any news items about irate mechanics running down a high street slashing at passers by with an MLS gasket or clubbing them to death with an updated oil rail so fingers crossed its going OK.

[greengartside]

The news of the impending fate of the Roover van has reached the Longbridge plant (or what's left of it) and now it's capturing the imagination of the former workers who are keen to help the stricken van out in any way possible. They are donating literally nothing to help the cause but are praying that the engine will turn over of the mighty K-series crate and fire up to live another day.

 

One worker said "it's gorra run cuz we mayde it - well oi dint cuz oi wuz on furkin stroike for 10 yeaz"

 

The scene earlier...

 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Done 12 hours on this shitehawk today!!!

 

Started by clearing out the leaves etc which had gathered in the engine while I left it for several months with the head off like a pro.

 

 

Actually was fairly painless to reassemble it (although since the head's been skimmed the timing belt does not line up quite as well as it did)

 

 

I put it all back together which took a couple of hours. timed it up as best I could and torqued up the bolts (to a little less than the reccomended settings as I'm re-using the previous 'new' set of bolts and i was a bit worried about them busting)!!! It all went fairly smoothly, I turned the key and would you believe it it started right up first time. The VVC actuators were a little chattery but they SHUT UP after a minute or so and it revved up like a mutha so I reckoned the timing belt had gone on in the right place.

 

How did it run? Well, I let it sit ticking over for 15-20 minutes and do you know what it was exactly the same as before. Didnt overheat on the gauge but the coolant was defo not circulating properly, the hoses were being pumped up to 800 PSi again and all sorts of gurgling and clattering was coming from the cooling system. No heat from the heater at all. It chucked its water out much as before. I was sure the head gasket was alright now though as it was running mega well and I had had no problems assembling it all. It still seemed like the coolant wasnt circulating properly.

 

The only bits I hadnt fiddled with or replaced were the heater matrix and SAAB valve on the back of the engine so I decided to have a look at those and see if they were bunged up or something. I flushed them out with the hosepipe (forgot to take a pic, nowt spesh to report there though) and tried to flush the block out by connecting the hosepipe to the tee-piece just upstream of the water pump inlet (its the shiny jubilee clip in the middle of this picture)

 

 

To my amazement it was blocked solid. If I took the expansion bottle lid off and the top hose and blew into the cooling system at this junction, it was absolutley solid with no flow at all. Equally if I blew down the top hose it was solid too. WTF was that all about? While the head was off I had not seen any blocked coolant passages and the block itself is the open-deck version so you can see right in. How the f**k can it be blocked solid?

 

I was getting pretty depressed at this point thinking I'd have to take the head off AGAIN and start poking about in the cooling passages with some wire, tyring to find the blockage. I wasnt sure i could face taking the head off again. For lack of a better idea I decided to take the (new) water pump off again (after remnoving the cambelt, carnk pulley etc) and see if I could see any blockages where it sits in the engine block casting.

 

With the water pump out I found I could now blow down the top hose into the engine which suggested that the cooling passages were actually OK. So why was the coolant not circulating?

 

I stared at the cooling system for a while and it occurred to me that the thermostat is positioned at the entry to the water pump, i.e. its in the coldest section of the cooling system and is exposed to 'cooled' water coming back from the radiator. It struck me that if the thermostat was shut, it would stop the coolant circulating and if the coolant was not circulating how would the thermostat ever know when to open?

 

I decided that the problem was the thermostat was 'too good' at closing the flow when cold and needed to allow a small amount of coolant flow even when shut, to allow some heat to reach it and tell it to open. So I put the water pump, timing belt and crank pulley BACK ON AGAIN and set on removing the (new) thermostat, with the intention of drilling a small hole in it.

 

The thermostat is right down the back of the engine so reallistically you have to take the inlet manifold off to access it EVEN IF YOU ONLY PUT IT ON A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO

 

 

That big black snakey pipe is the one that brings the cooled water from the radiator back to the water pump inlet.

 

I drilled a little hole in the stat (well 2 actually):

 

 

While I had the 'stat out I blew down the still-connected hose onto the tee piece between the stat and the water pump. To my total amazement it was solid!!! How the fuck can that be, seeing as everything that attaches to it is clean as a whistle (ish).

 

I stared at the cooling system again and realised that there is a 3/4" diameter 'bypass loop' that allows hot water exiting the cylinder head to bypass the radiator and 'stat and go straight back into the water pump. It does the same as the holes I'd just drilled in the stat but on a much bigger scale, allowing the coolant to circulate even when the 'stat is closed and damping out much of the temperature difference throughout the cooling system. And for some reason on this rover the bypass circuit was blocked solid! MUTHAFUCKA!!!!

 

 

 

As I had the stat out it was 2 mins work to now get the housing out that it lives in. You can see the 3/4" stub pipe coming off the side for the bypass circuit. Well that was blocked completley by a little black round bit of plastic that looked like a grommet (thats it in the pic). The grommet was almost the perfect size to close off the stub pipe!!! Where in gods name had that come from? The coolant flows INTO that stub pipe so the grommet had to have come down the hose from the cylinder head outlet and jammed in the stub pipe. I just poked a bit of stiff wire in and popped it out!!! The little bastard.

 

 

I was absolutley certain that this little mystery grommet was the cause of the problems, now there was no way the heater would not work and the coolant would not circulate!!!

 

I frantically reassembled it all as i had been on with it for flipping hours by this point. It all went back together OK although I was getting proper tired and losing my tools and my temper every 15 seconds ("OH FOR FUCKS SAKE MAN") but by 9pm I had it all back in one piece and full of water again. I was sure I had cracked it this time.

 

 

Well LO AND BEHOLD, it started up first time, warmed itself up, did not chuck its coolant out, did not sound like a coffee percolator or pump the hoses up to 800PSi and did NOT blow cold air out the heater. Its only fuggin FIXED!!!!!! SHAMONE!

 

 

I let it sit for 20 mins and it all seemed happy as Larry, so i had a little cheeky blezz up the lane. Its flipping class to drive, proper revvy and feels really quick. The driving position and gearchange is just like the old R8 Rover 220 which I loved so I felt right at home in it but its quicker and firmer than the 220. Its a seriously quick car (by my standards) and i reckon would be a proper hoot to drive on a proper backrad mission. The engine is lovely - really revvy and sounds great.

 

I brought it back to the garage and did a quick oil change which got rid of the old pissy oil (although most of the water had gone out of that by now) and made the engine sound a little sweeter. I had a couple of laps of honour round the yard then parked it up as I had been on it for 11 hours!!!!

 

I cant tell you what a relief it is to have this thing fixed, if it was still playing up after all that I'd probably just give up on old cars as a bad job. But its back in the game and so am I. Next job is a serious clean up and a fresh MOT!!!

[Honey Badger]

Your a shite hero Mr Bollox, I'd doff my cap to you, but it looks like you might have had enough of caps for one day.

 

Are you going to run this alongside your high speed Primera?

[mat_the_cat]

  On 10/08/2014 at 00:09, Mr_Bo11ox said:

Next job is a serious clean up and a fresh MOT!!! large beer.

 

EFA

[Pillock]

Bravo!

[Micrashed]

Jesus.

Im knackered after reading that, let alone doing that. I would have reached for a big hammer and the phone a Hiab lobg before finding that gromit. Well done.

[Parky]

Jesus man, how do you do it! I would have hung myself when the system started pressurising itself again. Well pleased you sorted this out and hope the wee Rover rewards you for your efforts by being relatively reliable!

 

By the way is it an R65 gearbox in this one? If so, get the transmission fluid changed as the drain plug will probably look like a hedgehog with the amount of swarf that would have accumulated by now.

[dollywobbler]

How the hell did that grommet get there? What a ballache. Glad it appears to be sorted.

[Anglevan]

Bloody well done that man.

[Cheggers]

Whatever happens, don't start thinking about where that little grommet might have come from and what it's supposed to be doing

 

Top job Boll, really nice to see a problem worked through logically like that...

[twosmoke300]

See, to all the non believers , no better feeling than getting to the bottom of a seemingly incurable problem. Well done Mr b . Now go and have a beer / wank as appropriate.

[garethj]

Well done!  I'm going to read this to my kids as an illustration of trying hard in school - no matter what the problem or setbacks, if you try harder than anyone else you'll win.

 

And of course an illustration of why not to buy a Rover kettle.

[cort16]

Well done mr ball wax. Your mechanical foo is still strong I mean it doesn't matter what kind if head gasket you use or how flat the head is when you've got a little plastic rabbit jobbie blocking the coolant system . A+ excellent engine fettler would read threads again .

[406V6]

Very well done Mr B. I felt your pain when reading about the engine still pressurising after putting it back together. Congratulations on finding the cause of the problem. One of the best-ever examples of perseverance and logical fault finding that I've read on AS.

[DeeJay]

Congratulations Mr B.

The longer that post went on the anticipation of Zippo and pez to make an appeqarance grew.

[phil_lihp]

Well done, genuinely pleased to see this update. What a bizarre thing to find though, where on earth could that have come from?

 

Beer and Sunday lunch well earned!

[nigel bickle]

Can you get a knowledgeable sort to identify that grommet? Just in case- like....

 

(FSO is ticketed, by the way!)

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Wow nice work Bickle!!

[meggersdog]

Well done that man..

 

I'm guessing the header tank hose goes to that metal pipe at the back of the engine.

If so then I've heard a story of someone blocking the header tank with corks so it appears there is no pressure and the tank's all clean,then chucking the car in the local banger auction.Maybe that's what a previous owner did but used a grommet instead.