Bus Shite

[83C]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Stupid question maybe! but to all the bus/truck drivers there, do you ever notice different tyres? in that obviously in the car world here on Autoshite, theres all the talk about Chinese Death rings, decent budgets and @sierraman spec Michelins (am I doing that right? LOL) 

so I have always wondered the same apply to bus/truck tyres? I mean I would like to hope that there would be a higher minimum standard for bus/truck tyres, so that no matter the tyre a bus full of children does not understeer itself into a ditch at 12Mph, but I do have to wonder? do drivers notice the difference in different brands/quality of tyre on their vehicle?

Never a problem with Michelins or Bridgestones (as you would expect), can’t say I ever had issues with Hankooks but to be honest I don’t think I drove that much with them fitted. 

Triangles and Doublecoins tended to slide easily in the wet. 

The thing about PSV tyres is that operators only care about two things: cost and longevity. As @Eyersey1234 says most medium-large operators lease their tyres, but smaller operators tend to fall into one of two categories - the ones who will buy the cheapest tyre because of the upfront cost, or the ones who will buy a more expensive tyre because it will last longer. 

Steers can go on any axle, drives should go on a drive axle. What you can’t do is mix and match steers and drives on the same axle. Many operators do just go for the same type all round, but some do fit proper drive tyres, especially in rural areas - there was also a theory that the really chunky drive tyres often used on tipper wagons had better sidewall protection. 

There are also recuts to consider - PSV tyres generally start life with 22mm of tread and most are marked as ‘regroovable’ which means they can be recut (in theory copying the manufacturers’ tread pattern) once they wear out. Different tyres will spec different amounts of recut depth possible but usually it’s up to 8mm recommended at 3-4mm remaining ‘original’ tread depth. It also leads to an old operator’s trick to gain a bit of extra ‘tolerance’ with the speed limiter - send the vehicle for calibration on tyres worn down to scrapping size, and immediately fit a new set on the vehicle’s return. One chap I used to work for ran a fleet of B10Ms and had a specific set of ‘calibration tyres’ that he’d re-re-recut as low as he dared, and got swapped onto every vehicle before they went for their two-yearly tacho/limiter calibration. Mind you, he was a bit of a dodgy character who would try recutting already cut tyres to put on the school bus fleet (anything to reduce the cost of that side of the business), the evidence for which were the pile of scrap tyres where the cutter had managed to expose the cords at the bottom of the tread.

A lot of older vehicles also swapped (if there was space to do so) to 22.5” wheels - certainly a number of RMs were changed over when in service because finding 20” tyres was getting quite tricky, not to mention expensive. The opposite problem afflicted a few DAF coaches that came new with 24.5” wheels - finding tyres could be a real pain. I could be wrong but I don’t think these could be swapped to 22.5” either because of fitment issues. 

[cms206]

53 minutes ago, 83C said:

A lot of older vehicles also swapped (if there was space to do so) to 22.5” wheels - certainly a number of RMs were changed over when in service because finding 20” tyres was getting quite tricky, not to mention expensive. The opposite problem afflicted a few DAF coaches that came new with 24.5” wheels - finding tyres could be a real pain. I could be wrong but I don’t think these could be swapped to 22.5” either because of fitment issues. 

The other issue with 20in wheels was of course that they're split rim, normally 9.00x20 or 10.00x20; a 295/80R22.5 is as near as dammit in size from memory and no clearance issues, and of course much safer for fitters!

The DAF issue was with brake caliper clearance from memory; the 24.5in rims were more or less DAF specific and it's not an easy swap to move over to later type SB3000 hubs which'll take the more usual 22.5in rims. Volvo B58s also used an odd rim due to a US-style stud pattern.

 

As has been said though, larger outfits lease their tyres so RML2760 being under the care of Stagecoach will have Michelins for that reason.

We ran a fleet of manual Volvo B10Ms and while we weren't particularly rural we did do a lot of rail replacement work up the West Highlands for example where chunky tyres were advantageous when the going got a bit rougher. They were louder than steer tyres but they wore well and tractoon was good; I certainly never got one stuck.

As I say after a lot of dabbling were generally ran GT Radials on the steer and Bandag chunky remoulds on the drive, that was our "go to" for years.

 

@LightBulbFun an example of steer v drive pattern.

[danthecapriman]

Yesterday I heard a load of commotion and constant honking of horns out in the street at home. Normally it’s someone just getting themselves at it for some stupid reason but this time it didn’t stop. 
Went out for a look at what was going on, and some utter bell ends had double parked in a really awkward place. 
The honking was from a skip truck that couldn’t fit through the gap, then a double decker bus turned up and, of course he had absolutely no chance.

Nobody could find the owners of the cars and van double parked (even cars were struggling to fit through!) so the road was pretty much blocked, with a skip truck stuck one side and a bus the other. 
The skip truck tried to get through but there just wasn’t the room so he managed to reverse out and turn around in an entrance before sodding off the way he came.

The bus though was screwed! No chance of fitting through the gap and nowhere to turn either without a very long reverse back up the street. 
Eventually one of the thoughtless arse holes turned up and moved but it wasn’t for quite some time.

 

It got me thinking though, what do you guys @cms206 that drive buses do in situations like that? 
Obviously it’s not a constant problem (I’d hope!) but it must happen from time to time. What do you do? 
You can’t really reverse all that way to turn, you have passengers on board, your going to be late on your service, you can’t really deviate from your route… how do you get around it?

As it was, this bus was sat parked up for about half an hour waiting. So that’s completely screwed that service. It must be absolutely infuriating for the drivers!

[LightBulbFun]

@83C @cms206 thank you for explaining the fine details/nuances of it all  it genuinely is quite interesting! I had seen the odd bus with chunkier looking rear tyres in the past, I always chalked it up to just being tyres replaced at a different rate front and rear, so its good to know what was actually going on there  

and it also answers some questions for me I had on the Routemaster thing, for example I knew that ones in later service, lost their traditional more rounded split rims, in favour of modern angular rim's but I did not know they difference in tyres (other then that I had heard some people had swapped to modern rim's just for ease of availability and as you say safety)

is 22.5 an industry standard size used across all heavy vehicles then? for example I have heard @warren t claim reference that size when he was driving lorries 

are the rim's themselves universal? I did notice when watching someone change the wheel on a Routemaster  the wheels had a bunch of extra stud holes that where not used when it was being fitted to a Routemaster hub, so I did wonder if it was some sort of universal wheel that is designed to fit a few different stud patterns or such?

3 hours ago, cms206 said:

20in wheels was of course that they're split rim, normally 9.00x20 or 10.00x20

interesting you mention the 2 difference sizes here, I remember a long time really wanting an inner-tube from a Routemaster as a keepsake and being told that RML's used chunkier tyres then regular RM's  

 

[83C]

I’m a bit hazy now on some of the finer details (left the industry completely in 2018, and was only a casual/self employed driver for 5 years before that) but things haven’t changed that much as I understand it.

22.5” on a 10-stud pattern is pretty much the standard size for most larger PSVs and HGVs, 19.5”/8-stud for smaller stuff and 17.5”/6-stud for things like Merc Varios. Not all patterns are the same and there are different mounting types so some rims are drilled with multiple patterns, but most are made to suit the specific vehicle.

Actual tyre size (width and aspect ratio) is dictated by the vehicle’s intended usage, so a service bus like a Leyland Lynx or Volvo B10B would have low profile 275/70/22.5s to bring the floor/step height down but bigger stuff like Tigers and B10Ms would rock a set of 295/80/22.5s, the taller tyre having more give and therefore more comfort than the low profile service bus tyres. 

[martc]

Scenes from Noo Yoik, I think the coaches are by GM.

Main Street and Kissena Boulevard , Queens, 15th of October 1973.

Broadway & 31 Street.

1936 Greyhound Bus Terminal, 33rd and 34th Streets between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, Manhattan, NY, Penn Station in the background.

[martc]

The conductor of this ZIS-155 heads to the canteen at the end of the day, Moscow, January 1958.

[martc]

Here's a miserable way to get to and from your luxury flight -

A ZIL-130B1  and APPA-4 low floor air side transit coach developed by 'Experiential Plant No.85 of the Ministry of Civil Aviation', 1974. It could carry 200 passengers at 25 kmh, they made them until 1999.

[catsinthewelder]

Apparently there is a flaw with low floor  buses in rural areas.

Our local bus (the 292) stays on the main road here so what I'm assuming happened was the bus on the left of the picture broke down and the other one was sent to replace it and chose a poor place to turn round.  It blocked the road for some time which will have made a lot of people late.   

I hope they let the passengers sit in the bus as it's a grim day to be stuck on Clee hill common.

[danthecapriman]

On 25/09/2024 at 12:32, martc said:

Scenes from Noo Yoik, I think the coaches are by GM.

Main Street and Kissena Boulevard , Queens, 15th of October 1973.

GM ‘fishbowl’ buses. Powered by Detroit diesel engines (usually 6v but sometimes 8v types). Same basic type bus as used in the movie Speed!

[Yoss]

Back to the 90s part 5 (or 6, can't remember now). 

Colin kept his buses at Mullaneys Coaches yard in Cardiff Road, Watford. One day some producers for Grange Hill were snooping round Cardiff Road looking for a location for some strange reason. I mean it's not a million miles from Elstree Studios but there are still a lot of other roads in between. 

But whilst sounding it out they found this yard with two Routemasters in and said they needed a bus for this scene. We'll, that's a handy coincidence. 

Colin decided neither of his buses looked suitabley London enough at the time so he borrowed RM 2198 from Malcom Drabwell who lived locally and who has unfortunately also passed away quite recently. 

Filming took place early one Sunday morning. These pictures are in no particular order.

The gist of the scene was that a kid runs out from behind the bus as a lorry comes down the road. Lorry swerves causing a Fiat Panda to swerve the other way and knock a girl off her bike. The whole scene lasted less than a minute on the telly but as is the way with these things, took all morning to shoot. 

Colin was good enough to inform the film crew here that London Transport would never place a temporary bus stop opposite a junction. They didn't care. Just past the chimneys on the right is where Mullaneys yard was. 

And all the bin bags you can see are props brought along by the film crew. 

 

Panda being set up with a camera rig. Taken from the top deck of the bus. 

 

Girl on bike. 

For the impact they used a stunt girl who was considerably older and of stronger build. Seen in matching blue coat here. 

 

The cast and crew decided the top deck of a Routemaster was a better place to spend the hours between takes than the actual vehicles the BBC had supplied and were parked at the end of the road along with a full catering truck. Photo taken with permission I might add. 

I was there as official conductor. They had an actor in conductors uniform but Colin said he wanted a proper one on board too. Not only did they not bat an eyelid at that extra cost but because we were both on the bus when it was being filmed they put us down as extras. So I got paid twice for doing something I would happily have done for free. I was sat on the bench seat by the platform in every shot but you can't see me at all. I videod it at the time and even freeze framing it you can't see me. They also had about ten paid extras as passengers spread about the bus and you couldn't see any of them either, it all goes so fast. Money we'll spent. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Good video, this! Anyone here driven one?

 

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, Yoss said:

Back to the 90s part 5 (or 6, can't remember now). 

Colin kept his buses at Mullaneys Coaches yard in Cardiff Road, Watford. One day some producers for Grange Hill were snooping round Cardiff Road looking for a location for some strange reason. I mean it's not a million miles from Elstree Studios but there are still a lot of other roads in between. 

But whilst sounding it out they found this yard with two Routemasters in and said they needed a bus for this scene. We'll, that's a handy coincidence. 

Colin decided neither of his buses looked suitabley London enough at the time so he borrowed RM 2198 from Malcom Drabwell who lived locally and who has unfortunately also passed away quite recently. 

Filming took place early one Sunday morning. These pictures are in no particular order.

The gist of the scene was that a kid runs out from behind the bus as a lorry comes down the road. Lorry swerves causing a Fiat Panda to swerve the other way and knock a girl off her bike. The whole scene lasted less than a minute on the telly but as is the way with these things, took all morning to shoot. 

Colin was good enough to inform the film crew here that London Transport would never place a temporary bus stop opposite a junction. They didn't care. Just past the chimneys on the right is where Mullaneys yard was. 

And all the bin bags you can see are props brought along by the film crew. 

 

Panda being set up with a camera rig. Taken from the top deck of the bus. 

 

Girl on bike. 

For the impact they used a stunt girl who was considerably older and of stronger build. Seen in matching blue coat here. 

 

The cast and crew decided the top deck of a Routemaster was a better place to spend the hours between takes than the actual vehicles the BBC had supplied and were parked at the end of the road along with a full catering truck. Photo taken with permission I might add. 

I was there as official conductor. They had an actor in conductors uniform but Colin said he wanted a proper one on board too. Not only did they not bat an eyelid at that extra cost but because we were both on the bus when it was being filmed they put us down as extras. So I got paid twice for doing something I would happily have done for free. I was sat on the bench seat by the platform in every shot but you can't see me at all. I videod it at the time and even freeze framing it you can't see me. They also had about ten paid extras as passengers spread about the bus and you couldn't see any of them either, it all goes so fast. Money we'll spent. 

It's mad what they will spend, with such little knowledge. I've sold basically scrap items to film makers as props for up to 10x real value.

[Inspector Morose]

3 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Good video, this! Anyone here driven one?

 

Never a Woldmaster but I did borrow this from Wacton Coaches moons ago

Underneath the 70s Plaxton Elite body lies a 1951 Leyland Royal Tiger. Originally a 30foot Plaxton centre entrance bodied example, it was lengthened to 33 foot in the 60s then rebodied in 1972. We borrowed it for bus service duties during one of our perennial vehicle shortages. Maybe a manual box, unassisted steering coach wasn’t the ideal choice but beggars can’t be choosers.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

6 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

Never a Woldmaster but I did borrow this from Wacton Coaches moons ago

Underneath the 70s Plaxton Elite body lies a 1951 Leyland Royal Tiger. Originally a 30foot Plaxton centre entrance bodied example, it was lengthened to 33 foot in the 60s then rebodied in 1972. We borrowed it for bus service duties during one of our perennial vehicle shortages. Maybe a manual box, unassisted steering coach wasn’t the ideal choice but beggars can’t be choosers.

I wonder why that one wasn't preserved? Plate must be worth a solid amount. 

[Inspector Morose]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I wonder why that one wasn't preserved? Plate must be worth a solid amount. 

As far as I know, it might still exist although in a similar state to the picture here. It was one of Martins Perry’s favourite machines but a mixture of enforced closing of his bus operations, selling up the dealer/breakers business and moving to New Zealand meant that it became a bit of a casualty of the whole affair.

It was rescued but the last report of it was a few years ago now so there’s a chance that it’s still hanging on somewhere.

[quicksilver]

2 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

As far as I know, it might still exist although in a similar state to the picture here. It was one of Martins Perry’s favourite machines but a mixture of enforced closing of his bus operations, selling up the dealer/breakers business and moving to New Zealand meant that it became a bit of a casualty of the whole affair.

It was rescued but the last report of it was a few years ago now so there’s a chance that it’s still hanging on somewhere.

Very interesting coach that one. According to Busview it was lengthened to 36ft with the original body, then shortened to 33ft when the new body was fitted. The last record is of it going to the Barry transport museum as a spares donor and only the chassis still existing.

[busmansholiday]

Incase non of you have seen one yet, Stagecoach have decided to ditch the "new" livery for another new one.

New to Stagecoach South West and now with Stagecoach Yorkshire, 15660 displays the new 'dark blue' livery. 

It was almost invisible under Eldon Street railway bridge as it's closer to black.

 

[ETCHY]

Can anyone recommend any good books on 1950's/1960's/1970s buses or coaches ?

I know stuff about cars but I read stuff on here about them & realise I know the thick end of jack all, yes I know what a Leyland National looks like but apart from that I'm largely clueless. Are there any good books out there that would help ? 

[jon.k]

1 hour ago, ETCHY said:

Can anyone recommend any good books on 1950's/1960's/1970s buses or coaches ?

I know stuff about cars but I read stuff on here about them & realise I know the thick end of jack all, yes I know what a Leyland National looks like but apart from that I'm largely clueless. Are there any good books out there that would help ? 

This one is a good introduction to coaches of the period and got me into bus and coach books. (Reasonably priced on abe books.)

There is also Buses in Britain by the same author but the coach one is a better read in my opinion, it captures the era with really good pictures.

[martc]

A MAZ-104.031 in Bus Park No. 4, Minsk, the first half of the 2000s. Anyone see touches of a Leyland National in it?

[martc]

Marlborough Crescent, NuT,  bus station 1976. 

Northumberland Street, NuT, 1979.

Worswick Street bus station, NuT.

[busmansholiday]

14 hours ago, martc said:

A MAZ-104.031 in Bus Park No. 4, Minsk, the first half of the 2000s. Anyone see touches of a Leyland National in it?

Nope, I see a knock off copy of a low floor Neoplan (cannot remember the exact code)

[catsinthewelder]

^^^ low bridge?

[busmansholiday]

2 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

^^^ low bridge?

Local sprogs more like.

[catsinthewelder]

Just looks like it should have a top deck

[Zelandeth]

18 hours ago, martc said:

A MAZ-104.031 in Bus Park No. 4, Minsk, the first half of the 2000s. Anyone see touches of a Leyland National in it?

More than a hint of a slightly scaled up Plaxton Pointer 2 to it.

Initially it reminded me a bit of this (albeit in non-bendy form obviously), but less similarities now I've actually looked at the photo.  Windscreen glass shape is very similar though.

Alexander City ranger body on that if memory serves.

Probably is the best sounding bus I've ever been on though if sitting on the back seat.  Just sad it's never been running when I've been at the museum since it went into preservation as that's one I'd love a shot of!

[Yoss]

52 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

More than a hint of a slightly scaled up Plaxton Pointer 2 to it.

Initially it reminded me a bit of this (albeit in non-bendy form obviously), but less similarities now I've actually looked at the photo.  Windscreen glass shape is very similar though.

Alexander City ranger body on that if memory serves.

Probably is the best sounding bus I've ever been on though if sitting on the back seat.  Just sad it's never been running when I've been at the museum since it went into preservation as that's one I'd love a shot of!

I found an unbendy one of those in Braşov, Transylvania in May. I've no idea what vintage they are but it was the only even remotely old looking thing I found. 

[Remspoor]

On 04/10/2024 at 21:11, ETCHY said:

Can anyone recommend any good books on 1950's/1960's/1970s buses or coaches ?

I know stuff about cars but I read stuff on here about them & realise I know the thick end of jack all, yes I know what a Leyland National looks like but apart from that I'm largely clueless. Are there any good books out there that would help ? 

I have two. London Buses: A Challenge from the Driver's Cab by Ted Murphy. A London bus driver suggests ways to improve public transport in the city.

and Trolleybus Trails by J. Joyce. A Survey of British Trolleybus Systems in the period when they were being replaced by buses at a rapid rate.

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, Yoss said:

I found an unbendy one of those in Braşov, Transylvania in May. I've no idea what vintage they are but it was the only even remotely old looking thing I found. 

Late 80s/early 90s.  Very well built, but very complex compared to what was the norm over here at the time (especially when you add being articulated into the mix) - which is why the one above spent so much of its working life in the garage or abandoned in a corner of the yard.  Shame because it goes very well and has a ride that puts pretty much any modern coach to shame, never mind bus.