Sadly, NOT a collection thread - 1955 Rover P4 90

[Peter C]

I went to the Yattendon classic car show today and came across a 1955 Rover P4 90 for sale - that's the 2.6 six cylinder version. At £2,500 ono, it caught my eye. 

There are some P4 likers on here and I've always fancied one myself. 

The seller was a young chap, approx 25 years old. He really knows his P4s and I really enjoyed talking with him. He has another, better P4 and due to parking / storage issues, he's selling this one.

The Good:

Mostly very solid (according to the seller).

The engine was whisper quiet. When I first approached the car, the bonnet was up and it took me 30 seconds to realise that the engine was running. 

Mechanically all good (according to the seller).

In the past year, the seller spent £1,800 (with receipts to prove) on maintenance / repairs. 

Parts availability is good (according to the seller).

The Bad:

The car was originally two-tone grey but a previous owner had is sprayed maroon. 

The quality of the respray is very poor. There is localised  cracking of paint and god only knows what is hiding underneath.

The original number plate has been replaced with a non-transferable plate.

Some of the interior trim is very tired and finding suitable replacement bits is likely to be tricky. 

The Exciting:

I love cars in this condition!

I could spend hours days weeks months in the workshop doing it up. Getting the interior up to standard would be particularly satisfying.

With that smooth six cylinder engine, it probably drives quite nicely. 

At around £2k-ish, it seemed not a huge amount of money for what could be a really cool project. 

The Reality:

The paint really lets the car down. If it was still wearing the original grey paint, no matter how worn, it would look so much better than it does now. 

The steering is really heavy - I had a little go. With my right shoulder still far from fixed, I would really struggle to drive the Rover.

My Sierra is in bits / my shoulder is not well / I'm off on two imminent holidays / life in general, I wouldn't have time to do anything with the Rover until late this / early next year. In the meantime, it would just get in the way.

The only place that I could store it would be under the carport - I don't have any more garage space. That would fuck with my OCD.

The Result:

I thanked the really nice guy for  his time, told him that I will sleep on it but now that I'm home, I've decided that it might be best if I give this opportunity a miss.

That's not to say that I wouldn't have a P4 sometime in the future. 

The Photos:

The P4 is as photogenic as my MGB. It looks good from far but far from good. 

[lesapandre]

Let's get this perspective...

It's the much much cooler earlier P4 - with David Bache's modified rear but retaining the squared-off front wings of the cyclops cars. These cars are much nearer to their Studebaker design roots. It even has the thick dished hubcaps with brass ROVER inserts.

It's a 90 - so it has some beans.

Apart from the carpets the leather work looks eminently revivable and is the earlier simple pattern.

It does not seem to be suffering from rear spring sag.

It's has the HMV car radio fitted meaning someone specced this car from new.

It's running extremely well in the hands of an enthusiastic owner who has spent ££.

The red paint is very stylish lifting it out of the beige fuddy-duddy retired bank manager image so many of these P4 seem to have .

It's not expensive and clearly can be driven away.

So...

Cancel the holidays and see an osteopath...🥰

[Zelandeth]

They are a stupid amount of car for the money.  I'm on my second one.

They are one of the last cars I feel which were designed by engineers rather than accountants.  The more you dig into them the more you see that.

Interior trim is fscking expensive, but it looks like it's all there in that one - good clean and treatment of most of it would make the world of difference aside from the carpets.  Those are £650 or so for a full set, but that's ready made - if you don't mind a bit of fabrication yourself there you could probably do it for a quarter of that or less.

The only other component I remember being ludicrous in terms of price was the original brake servo - but a modern replacement is possible for a lot less.

The little bits and pieces are really what gets you though, it's quite possible to spend a fortune making an average car a pristine car - and that's money you're pretty unlikely to see back if you sell it as they are so under valued.

The six pot engines are gloriously smooth, and absolutely handle mixing with modern traffic no sweat.  Especially if they've got the overdrive fitted.

The steering is something which does let them down though in that it's pretty damned heavy, though the one I currently have is definitely far better in that regard than the last one.  It's also quite low geared so hard work around town.  Reminds me of an old school bus in that regards!  They never came from the factory with power steering.  There is a power steering kit out there for them...for five grand!  Though again, it's not the world's most complicated setup so I'm sure engineering something yourself wouldn't be impossible.

If you find a solid and presentable one which has already had power steering fitted you'd absolutely be onto a winner which could honestly be used every day (if you didn't mind high teens MPG figure!).

I love them and am hugely looking forward to getting mine back up and running properly.

[Matty]

Not sure i get the question. As obviously you bought it on the spot and are now just asking what to do at it first 🤣

Joking aside, if 2 and a half grand is money you can live without then just get it bought and worry later whether its a good idea or not. Lifes too short.

[Peter C]

@lesapandre

I hear what you are saying but whilst this P4 is undeniably a very cool motor, the paint seriously lets it down and making it at least presentable would cost more than the asking price. It makes sense to start with something slightly better, that has more potential.

[Mr Livered]

Yattendon... so matey probably lives Berkshire way? Hmm...

[lesapandre]

You can also run it along the Westway for the full on cool effect...

[Zelandeth]

Have to admit that at that price even if it's a ten footer I'd probably have bagged it.  You're unlikely to struggle to shift it at that money if it's running well and in regular use, especially if you do a bit of work that's mostly elbow grease to make the interior looks better (a good going over the seats and a decent set of mats would make the world of difference).

Cheap way to get a feeling for if it's really a car for you long term rather than sinking a good chunk more into one and then realising that you haven't really gelled with it.  

In the same breath though, another one will probably come along if it's something you're actively keeping your eye open for.  Especially once your shoulder's back in the game more.

I reckoned I wasn't going to find a solid one at a decent price, then this one surfaced on here via HMC.  It needs recommissioning properly and has similarly rough paint, but it's a solid car underneath and everything is there so I wasn't going to complain!  Especially as it's a car that will be in regular use so I'm not personally too fussed about the paint, though it'll likely get a proper respray one day.

[Weird Car]

Absolute peak Rover imo, no other Rover even comes close to the care, build quality, attention to detail and straight up solidness of these old boats, I’d love an early cyclops car one day 

[Remspoor]

I have been following this girl. She is from Romanian (I think) she has an older man who has a great deal of mechanical experience helping her out. She does get her hands dirty. It might help you find some hidden faults on this car.

 

[Matty]

@Peter C. Not in anyway trying to influence but check this out for shit paint.

Brush painted. Badly. Not by me i hasten to add. Itll always affect its value. I knew it when i bought it and paid almost nowt for it. Ive spent a bloody fortune on it making it a lot quicker, handle properly and stop. And when i sell it its still worth nowt cos of the paint. But its been so much fun.

scruffy cars are fun cars cos theres no fear in using them. Give nowt for the Rover, enjoy it and then sell it for nowt. The rest of your cars are so beautifully presented, itll be a tonic for you to own one you dont need to worry about it getting damaged.

[scruff]

What a fab old motor. I understand your caution, but it warms the cockles to know that there is still old yad around like this for sensible money. 

[danthecapriman]

I can’t honestly see anything not to like for the money. I’d have bought it I think!😄 although admittedly I’m notoriously weak willed!

A P4 is well up there on my bucket list, and paintwork aside, that one looks a decent car. Even just as a stop gap measure you could flat it down and give it a brush painted makeover a’la @juular which might give it a lift even just for a few years until you’ve saved up enough in your swear jar for a proper respray.

[timolloyd]

@Peter C think of the sound system you could fit to this!

[Matty]

42 minutes ago, timolloyd said:

@Peter C think of the sound system you could fit to this!

Itll have the acoustics of a cathedral so id imagine itd be epic!

[Matty]

@TrabbieRonnie. I feel your input on P4s with dodgy paint would be v relevant about now!

[TrabbieRonnie]

13 minutes ago, Matty said:

@TrabbieRonnie. I feel your input on P4s with dodgy paint would be v relevant about now!

I too have a old red Rover with dodgy paint Peter, and 'yours' is an absolutely lovely thing.  My plan is a coach enamel paint job, following a couple of rust repairs of course (be sure and lift the rubber 'doormats', they trap water extremely well...).

Paintman Paints seem to be the favourite supplier these days, and their YouTube channel tutorials are really great.  

Like yours, mine is running like a swiss watch now, and they do drive beautifully.  The steering is always going to be heavy at parking speeds (apparently better with crossplies fitted, but £omg!), so I can see why that alone would stop you enjoying the car much until your shoulder heals.

Fantastic find though, great to see...  If you do take the plunge, the Driver's Guild are great, tbh they are probably already aware of the car... their records are very comprehensive!

 

PS.  I gave up on my delapidated carpets, and fitted four-way-stretch stuff from Amazon... looks great and was £45!

[Lankytim]

You can buy mine for 2k. It’s got shit paint too. 

[lesapandre]

What's great about this site is that next to the scruffy Rover is a highly desirable and hugely valuable Ford Escort RS2000 Mark I* - and nobody has mentioned it. 😂

*assuming it is that I'm not a Ford-expert.

[alcyonecorporation]

A friend of mine has a P4 that he fitted a power steering kit to. 
It did not cost 5 grand. 

I'll ask him what he did for future reference if your shoulder keeps playing up. 

He has a lovely late P4 95.

[Peter C]

12 hours ago, Mr Livered said:

Yattendon... so matey probably lives Berkshire way? Hmm...

Newbury.

[Peter C]

Guys, I hear what you're saying but having slept on it, despite your kind words of encouragement, I remain confident that I made the right decision - not to buy the Rover.

The colour, quality and condition of the paint massively lets the car down. A 1955 Rover P4 is a thing of beauty but not this one, it really looks awful and would need too much effort to sort out.

I forgot to mention that the tyres are also all wrong. Not only are they radial, they are also too wide and have an excessively high aspect ratio. No doubt they make the steering even heavier than normal and they look all wrong.

When I saw my MGB at Beaulieu, it looked like it needed plenty of TLC but I could see potential and I didn't hesitate and bought it on the spot. I'm just not feeling enough love for the Rover.

[Matty]

Fair play Peter. Obvs still buy one at some point though. Seeds been planted and all that 😁

[lesapandre]

Quite understand. You've seen it close-to - we've not. Agreed something to quietly improve needs to start from a good base. Usually lots turn up for sale - very high survival rate these. 

Maybe join the owners club sometime (P4 Drivers Guild) and get a car that way.

Still it was fun for us all to look through your eyes - thanks for posting. 

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, Peter C said:

Guys, I hear what you're saying but having slept on it, despite your kind words of encouragement, I remain confident that I made the right decision - not to buy the Rover.

The colour, quality and condition of the paint massively lets the car down. A 1955 Rover P4 is a thing of beauty but not this one, it really looks awful and would need too much effort to sort out.

I forgot to mention that the tyres are also all wrong. Not only are they radial, they are also too wide and have an excessively high aspect ratio. No doubt they make the steering even heavier than normal and they look all wrong.

When I saw my MGB at Beaulieu, it looked like it needed plenty of TLC but I could see potential and I didn't hesitate and bought it on the spot. I'm just not feeling enough love for the Rover.

The paint is the killer. Apart from the paint quality, bright crimson is not a suitable colour for a P4. The trim is ok, as the seat leather seems intact, so will respond well to treatment and recovering,and carpets, although expensive, aren't difficult for a car trimmer to produce using the old ones as patterns.

But that colour is horrid.

[Remspoor]

I have had two MG B roadsters. The trouble with them is they are everywhere and just are not that different enough to make it special. However, parts are plentiful, just avoid Chinese copy parts are the usual crap.

[eddyramrod]

3 hours ago, Peter C said:

the tyres are also all wrong. Not only are they radial, they are also too wide and have an excessively high aspect ratio.

The tyres themselves are not as wrong as you think.  Yes they are clearly radials, I would guess 195 section?  Maybe 205?  They sit much more rubber on the road than the original crossplies which is partly why you found the steering so heavy.  The crossplies would have been 82% profile, what's on the car now looks more like 80% (standard) or maybe 75% (as I have on WiFeY).  One thing I did notice about the red Rover is that the front seems to be sitting a bit low.  WiFeY sits in a very similar pose, and I'm finding the front tyres rub a bit on the wings when I use all the steering lock.  I suspect that both cars need new, standard-length springs as I'm sure the taller, narrower original tyres would not have fouled the wings.

WiFeY's paint is poor, and absolutely non-original, but she has to live on-street all year round and still attracts a LOT of admiration wherever she goes.

Just some thoughts for you...

[Dyslexic Viking]

I don't see the paint as a problem. Rust is much more important and if I had bought it I would just leave the paint alone and drive it.

[Zelandeth]

Fair enough.  No point in buying something that you're not going to be able to enjoy I reckon.  For me cosmetics are a fair way down the priority list so long as it's not levels of shabby to be screaming "pull me over" to any police who are bored and having a bad day.  I'm sure one more suited will turn up at some point, as has been noted they seem to have an extraordinary survival rate.

Now, who on here is going to buy it then?  Don't look at me I've already got one!

[Peter C]

@Dyslexic Viking

@Zelandeth

A Rover P4 90 is a thing of beauty, except when it has been badly painted in a shit colour and the paint is cracking and peeling. I agree that aesthetics should be lower down on the to-do list compared with more pressing issues but the fact remains that I wouldn't enjoy this car until it received some form of a re-spray and I wouldn't have time to deal with that for months. Then, I would end up with a lovely and shiny P4 that would end up costing a lot more than two-ish grand and I wouldn't have a fourth garage to store it in. 

I'm oot.