Renault 6 - Crunch time?

[Rust Collector]

1 minute ago, eddyramrod said:

Option D requires a suitable indoor space in which to work.  Brilliant option, certainly, but some sort of workshop is pretty much essential.

I’ve always done this work outside on the driveway, a workshop would be the ideal setup but again I’m a big advocate for good enough rather than perfect.

[eddyramrod]

Driveway... I can remember such luxuries!  TBF yes, on the driveway would be good enough for patching.  When the repair panels get larger though, and the holes are big enough to stand in, then you really do want a building around you.

[loserone]

Is it small enough to do in a lockup?

[Rust Collector]

17 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

Driveway... I can remember such luxuries!  TBF yes, on the driveway would be good enough for patching.  When the repair panels get larger though, and the holes are big enough to stand in, then you really do want a building around you.

Each to their own I guess - the work needs to get done on the cars so I just get on with it outdoors. If I cut a hole big enough that I’m worried about the outdoors getting in whilst I’m not working on it then I secure a tarp over it, it does the job. And of course you do have to be mindful about the weather and what that means for the shielding gas. I’ve not seen under the R6, but if it’s anything like my lada then I reckon floor pans, chassis leg repairs, suspension mounts are all things that can be done outside with time and determination (and most importantly to me, not a lot of money!).

Our own @juular is something of an inspiration when it comes to the level of reconstruction you can achieve out on the driveway! @PhilA has done some great work on his Plymouth on the driveway too, another thread I loved for the welding content and that apparent ‘just get it done’ mentality. Apologies to any other home welders who I’ve forgotten to acknowledge - there’s a few on here whose threads have been inspiration to tackle these bigger projects.

[LightBulbFun]

11 hours ago, wuvvum said:

Option 3 - I can get a full brand new galvanised chassis from a place in France for about 1700 quid.  With delivery and VAT though that will probably come to around £2500.  Then I need to find someone who can lift the body off the existing chassis without fucking it up and fit it to the new chassis, then transfer across all the running gear, suspension etc.  That's so far beyond my skill set that I wouldn't even contemplate attempting it, and getting a professional to do it would probably be another couple of grand again.  So the total cost would be more than the car is worth, and I would end up with a structurally and mechanically sound but still quite scruffy Renault 6.  If I didn't love the car so much option 3 wouldn't even be on the list.  It's only nominally on the list for the time being anyway - I can't afford it at the moment.

I suppose it depends how much the car really means with you, but i'd go with this option personally, or at least start saving up towards it, its about £4500 of work by your estimate right?

but could you get a decent Renault 6 for that? one that has had a new chassis and is mechanically sound and roadworthy like your R6 would then be after that work?  I dont know much about R6's what their values are and how many freshly mechanically restored examples are out there, but I have a feeling that you probably could not, so although expensive at first blush, spending a few grand to get a mechanically fresh car out of it actually sounds pretty good in my eye  

I wonder as people have said could you get the work done in France? or at least could you get the new chassis yourself, to save on transport costs for example, make a holiday out of it  with a set of photographs "here is my new Chassis by the beach, here it is by the Eiffel Tower, here it is being used as a ladder to rescue an old french lightbulb Dez would not shut-up about!"  regarding the work it needs is this something @GingerNuttz could assist with? or maybe could there be some other shitter on here you could pay to give it the welding face lift it needs?  

or bring the R6 to @Saabnut's Shitefest international and see if we chuck enough shitters at it we can get it restored over a weekend over there?  like an Autoshite of those Car restoration/modification TV shows n what have you  (ok maybe not this option!)

[Dyslexic Viking]

I say 2 or 3. I'm a fan of fixing it properly to get it done for good, at least on cars that are stored dry indoors, on cars that live outdoors, this will at least last for many years hopefully. And if I couldn't afford this now, I would put the car in dry storage if possible to prevent it from getting worse until I had saved up the money needed. But this is me and is not my car or my money.

And finding someone to do the job, there are several members here who seem capable and could possibly take on the job. One up in Scotland who has suffered through several Triumphs and another who is now fixing a certain blue 3-wheeler without a steering wheel to name a few.

[Joey spud]

If you really want an easy life with your Renault I would be looking for the best rot free one in Europe and driving/towing it back Mr Bollox stylee. A bit of a mini break and instant new R6 memories and bonding created.

Once home underseal as required and swap over all the best bits from yours (rhd convert ?) and enjoy it for years knowing it's solid and safe. You could even transfer your cars reg number over to it.

There's no fun chasing the rot out of a rusty car especially one that'll never be worth anything near the time and expenditure needed to achieve it.

[Rust Collector]

4 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

There's no fun chasing the rot out of a rusty car especially one that'll never be worth anything near the time and expenditure needed to achieve it.

[hairnet]

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ad/voitures/2980741579

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ad/voitures/3024058185

WANT the  blue one (also handy for the ferry)

[mk2_craig]

+1 for doing a Bo11ox. This one has an absolutely shite description and photos, but it’s a decadent GTL model. And white. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1B4QGiecCb/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[Joey spud]

I've had my Subaru Brat since 2008 and prepped and painted it in 2009 then i bought another one and swapped its lower mileage running gear over to it. Ten years later i took it off the road to repair the soft sills (that I should have replaced when it was first painted) this has turned into a full underside referb and repair of the rear inner arches and tub and loss of enthusiasm and lifes distractions getting in the way.

I still love the thing dearly. There's not a nut or bolt I haven't touched and I really couldn't sell it.  But my later life would have been so much easier if in 2008 when the urge for a Brat was really severe I had took out a loan and purchased the best rust free better specced example (a/c power steering and quad head light front end) and had it shipped over from Australia.

[IronStar]

This just popped up on my FB marketplace. Not close by any strech of imagination, but surely for less then 1500 you can get it over there? Supposedly had bodywork done.

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1070343697931139

[junkyarddog]

Run it till it drops.

Then get another from France.

[RayMK]

4 hours ago, wuvvum said:

It's getting to that point - I may have a year or two before it starts to reach the point of no return but I don't want to run the risk of it tipping over the edge.  Also I need to find someone to actually do the work which could take a while - people who will do major structural repairs on ancient rusty French cars for a living are getting few and far between these days.

I was surprised how difficult it was to find anyone interested in fixing my '94 Tipo.  The garage which had done an excellent job on the welding a couple of years before had actually gone bust!  No-one wanted to touch the electrical/ECU gremlin which caused its FTP in 2023 and it sat in a garage forecourt for a year whilst feelers were put out by the garage and myself. Result: no takers.  It was a sad state of affairs. In the end, because the car was deteriorating and my age and health not helping, it went for recycling.  A Renault R6 is a more desirable car so you may get more luck finding a repair person/business.  The trouble I see if going for option 3 is that, apart from the expense, it may take many months of hassle to organise and carry out the work.  This can severely damage mojo.  Good luck with whatever you decide. 

[Steviemillar]

I have the very same dilemma as you @wuvvum so I can relate to where you are with your R6 albeit my car is not currently up and running. 

My one is a car I first saw in 1996, managed to buy it in 2020 and have driven it 50 miles tops. Its currently sat with its engine and box removed (and has been sat a year now) due to a big end knock so do I just put the decent replacement engine & refurbished gearbox in and just run it or do I get it restored. One day its restore, the next is just get it running, procrastination is indeed my middle name. I have even toyed with just selling it to someone else who loves it more than I do, a feeling that also changes daily!

[Bren]

When I bought my SD1 I was hoping I could patch it up initially. That soon went out of the window.

Things snowball very quickly with old cars - the only comfort was I wasn't paying anybody.

Would I do it again? No. It took up too much time ( still needs paint) and as somebody the wrong side of 50 I am mindful that I don't want to be wasting weeks/months/years fannying about with rust.

The renault sounds like it is at the point where the job is done properly - or not at all. How much would it cost to have somebody do the work? What would it sell for finished? Having an emotional attachment complicates things - we still have my late in laws' granada - it needs sills and rear arches minimum - they don't make good money like the mk1 or mk 2 so it would be a heart over head decision.

I would see what a solid example from the continent would cost first. Then decide.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

[Volksy]

I can't believe you've had this for that long. I remember posting it in the original (pre 'Incident') Ebay Tat thread at the time!

I guess ideally option 3 would be the best one,  However, a chassis swap will soon escalate in cost as you'll ideally be replacing all bushes engine mounts etc as you transfer everything over from one to the other.

S/H chassis route could be an idea, Rural Spain is probably a better bet for parts/donor vehicle than France if that's an option. Although the Spanish ones will be FASA Renault so may have a few differences.

I'm getting to this stage with the Merc, where it's gonna start needing some body repairs soon, The front wings are rotting out (TADTS), both flanks are peppered with dinks from it's harsh London life. The front suspension desperately needs new bushings etc. Mine isn't the best example, for a start its Cat S, and other S classes would be available for probably less than the cost of sorting mine properly. But... I really love the car, and think in a year or two I may take the plunge and get it sorted. 

 

[Heidel_Kakao]

With option C could you make it a bit cheaper and rather getting the new chassis delivered here instead take the car to the chassis and get the work done by a french specialist as suggested by a few other people.

[wuvvum]

2 hours ago, Volksy said:

I can't believe you've had this for that long. I remember posting it in the original (pre 'Incident') Ebay Tat thread at the time!

Yep.  December 2007.  I got into a bidding war with pogweasel on it - he actually PMd me on here to find out what I was willing to go up to, my response was basically "I don't have a limit, I'm buying that car".

[wuvvum]

Thanks for all the input so far.  A couple of things to add:

-I do have a MIG welder (albeit a cheap gasless one), and I have successfully used it in the past to join bits of metal together, but I'm nowhere near good enough with it to tackle the '70s French tinfoil that the Renault is made from - I'd end up burning holes in everything.  I also have near zero fabrication skills and am a complete menace with an angle grinder.

-The car is stored in a dry lockup over the winter months, which will have helped slow the rate of decay.  However there's no power there and not much room around the car to work once it's in there.  I don't have any other undercover space to work on cars.  I have a driveway which I can do bits on but it's gravel so less than ideal for anything involving axle stands, and I don't think it'd go down too well with the neighbours if I started doing major resto work on the drive even if I was capable of it.

-Selling the car is not an option, even to buy a better Renault 6.  I'm a sentimental twat and I'm far too attached to it.

 

The idea of buying a better Renault 6 from southern Europe is one I hadn't considered, but it's definitely an option that's worth adding to the list.  France preferable to Spain as I speak the lingo (to an extent) and I understand a bit of how the bureaucracy works.

[chadders]

Forgive me for being a bit thick but you'd buy a better one just for parts/body cuts then?

 

[wuvvum]

Actually I'm the one being thick here.  If I'm going to be buying a car to break for its solid chassis and running gear, I'd be much better off buying a battered but solid (so typical South of France condition) late model Renault 4 - mechanically identical to the 6 and far preferable to chop up what is still a relatively common car than sacrifice another 6 to keep mine on the road.

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Actually I'm the one being thick here.  If I'm going to be buying a car to break for its solid chassis and running gear, I'd be much better off buying a battered but solid (so typical South of France condition) late model Renault 4 - mechanically identical to the 6 and far preferable to chop up what is still a relatively common car than sacrifice another 6 to keep mine on the road.

ill just say the DVLA dont like it when you when you mix major used components components from multiple cars like that, depending on what components get used etc, at best the vehicle assumes the identity of the donor chassis at worse the vehicle record gets voided and you have to fight for even a a Q plate, and somewhere in the middle you could play the rebuild classic vehicle card and maybe get it on an age related plate

I know some people have a bit more of a relaxed attitude to this sort of thing, but trust me it can be a world pain, not just for you yourself should the DVLA come knocking, but also down the line for anyone who may end up with the vehicle in future, who might not be aware whats gone on in the past

for example someone filling out a V62 may fill in the chassis number section using the donor chassis number but using the registration mark of the original vehicle, not realising the vehicle has had a chassis swap, then the DVLA see the chassis number on the V62 does not match whats recorded on that vehicle record, and then its *game over*

I have seen that and things like that happen a few times sadly!

so just please be careful in how you go about things in that regard! 

[High Jetter]

38 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Actually I'm the one being thick here. 

You're not. It's all part of your process of deciding how to proceed, and as you asked you're getting different viewpoints which is helping you on the road to a future with your R6. I think we all want to see it live, with you. I'd love to at least be a passenger in one again, it's been too many years.

[Rust Collector]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ill just say the DVLA dont like it when you when you mix major used components components from multiple cars like that, depending on what components get used etc, at best the vehicle assumes the identity of the donor chassis at worse the vehicle record gets voided and you have to fight for even a a Q plate, and somewhere in the middle you could play the rebuild classic vehicle card and maybe get it on an age related plate

I know some people have a bit more of a relaxed attitude to this sort of thing, but trust me it can be a world pain, not just for you yourself should the DVLA come knocking, but also down the line for anyone who may end up with the vehicle in future, who might not be aware whats gone on in the past

for example someone filling out a V62 may fill in the chassis number section using the donor chassis number but using the registration mark of the original vehicle, not realising the vehicle has had a chassis swap, then the DVLA see the chassis number on the V62 does not match whats recorded on that vehicle record, and then its *game over*

I have seen that and things like that happen a few times sadly!

so just please be careful in how you go about things in that regard! 

If you're going to the effort of taking the body off the chassis and swapping it out, then I'm going to imagine that you'd probably be looking to swap over the chassis plates/grind the old number off and re-stamp it with the 'correct' one etc.

[wuvvum]

38 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ill just say the DVLA dont like it when you when you mix major used components components from multiple cars like that, depending on what components get used etc, at best the vehicle assumes the identity of the donor chassis at worse the vehicle record gets voided and you have to fight for even a a Q plate, and somewhere in the middle you could play the rebuild classic vehicle card and maybe get it on an age related plate

I was thinking more along the lines of using sections (albeit fairly significant ones) of the 4 chassis, floorpan & suspension mountings to repair the rotten bits of the 6, rather than lifting the body off the 6 and plonking it on the 4 chassis - for one thing I'm probably more likely to be able to find someone willing and able to do the former than the latter, which is a rather more specialised job.

Although that raises an interesting point as the DVLA points system allows rebuilding onto a new chassis "direct from manufacturer" - it's not clear whether that means direct from the chassis manufacturer or whether it means that the new chassis has to be manufactured by Renault.  If it's the latter then that might rule out Option 3 altogether - it's highly unlikely that it'd be an issue given that the car doesn't need MOTing anymore and I don't ever intend to sell it, but if I was spending that sort of money I'd want to be sure...

Having said that I've just checked the website again and the place that makes the chassis says that they are able and authorised to stamp the new chassis with your original VIN number, so to all intents and purposes it's a replacement OEM chassis.

[wuvvum]

6 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

If you're going to the effort of taking the body of the chassis and swapping it out, then I'm going to imagine that you'd probably be looking to swap over the chassis plates/grind the old number off and re-stamp it with the 'correct' one etc.

Some people may choose to go down that route.  If that were something I was contemplating though I certainly wouldn't advertise the fact on a public forum. 🙃

[danthecapriman]

Forgive me for being a bit thick too, but is the 4 and 6 the same (enough) underneath to do such a thing then?

I had no idea if so! Which shows how little I know about French cars!

Personally, I think your best off getting a rust free shell to cannibalise for parts and sections given how you feel about the car. Like I said earlier, it’ll save you a hell of a lot of time and therefore labour. Ok you still need to get someone to weld it together but it’s still a hell of a lot easier and quicker than fabricating things etc etc. 

[lisbon_road]

A few thoughts.  First you could learn to be a better welder, youtube or a course somewhere.  Second, consider using a resistance spot welder.  They are not very good at all for some jobs due to the restriction of arm length, but where they can be used, they are awesome for very high quality results.  The only skill you need is patience with preparation.  And, er, they're rather expensive now.

Just trying to help: the idea of being determined to fix a nondescript undesirable car is the very definition of autoshite so we should all get behind you on this one.  

With respect to retaining the V5, the only parts that have numbers are the chassis and the engine.  All the rest, no-one has any idea what you or anyone else has changed so it is totally academic.  

 

[bigstraight6]

24 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Forgive me for being a bit thick too, but is the 4 and 6 the same (enough) underneath to do such a thing then?

I had no idea if so! Which shows how little I know about French cars!

Personally, I think your best off getting a rust free shell to cannibalise for parts and sections given how you feel about the car. Like I said earlier, it’ll save you a hell of a lot of time and therefore labour. Ok you still need to get someone to weld it together but it’s still a hell of a lot easier and quicker than fabricating things etc etc. 

That’s a good call, could a rust free unloved car be found in the south of France? Possibly and it would provide a perfect solution though a bit of a mission. See Wuvvum in an old LDV pickup at a ferry port trying to explain to the nice customs officer why he has an ancient Renault as a load..