Renault 6 - Crunch time?

[wuvvum]

I don't normally start new threads for fleet members but I've been having a lot of internal debate with myself recently about the Renault 6 and its future.

I've owned it for 17 1/2 years now.  Mechanically it's always been fantastic - it's never FTP'd other than a flat battery, the only breakdown it's had was when the fanbelt snapped but even then it made it home under its own steam (literally).

Bodywork wise it's a different story.  When I bought it it'd been used as a farm runaround on a farm in Kent - they weren't particularly interested in the car or its rarity, they just bought it because they wanted a cheap tax exempt runaround.  So it'd already been patched up underneath in several places, to varying standards. and for some reason the rear wings had been hacked about to fit Series 2 rear lights.

Since then it's had various bits of welding done by my welding mate - several fairly large repair patches to the floors, and the nearside rear trailing arm mount snapped off about 10 years ago and was repaired using a steel plate several orders of magnitude thicker than anything else on the car, and which until recently has held up pretty well.

It's got to the point though that it really can't be patched up any further.  (Welding mate pretty well said as much last year when he did the most recent floor repair.)  There's no actual holes in the floor at the moment (other than the drain holes I drilled to let out the rainwater that was leaking in) but it's getting extremely thin in places.  Also the nearside rear suspension has started banging over big bumps - I'm not sure whether it's the trailing arm bush that's gone (it does look pretty ropey) or whether it's the repair that's failing - there doesn't seem to be any movement when I rock the car, but when I jacked the car up on the trailing arm mount the other day it looked to be sagging as the wheel dropped.  Although it's not structural the rear valance is disappearing too, and there are a couple of other areas of floor further back that are looking a bit tender, especially at the outer edges.

The way I see it I have three options.  Option 1 is to carry on using it as it is and hope it doesn't continue to deteriorate too quickly - that's not ideal though as it's a 53-year-old Renault so it's going to continue dissolving if I don't do anything about it, eventually reaching the point where it's effectively beyond economical repair, and I love the car and feel guilty every time I poke around underneath and see how bad it's got.

Option 2 is to buy some "proper" repair panels (I can get a front floor section for the passenger side, repair panels for the edges of the floors, trailing arm mount and bush for about 300€), and find someone willing to chop out the old bits and let in the new - that should buy the car a few more years.  It really needs a front chassis leg on the nearside as well, but the repair piece for that is nearly 500€ on its own so the existing one might need to be patched up.

Option 3 - I can get a full brand new galvanised chassis from a place in France for about 1700 quid.  With delivery and VAT though that will probably come to around £2500.  Then I need to find someone who can lift the body off the existing chassis without fucking it up and fit it to the new chassis, then transfer across all the running gear, suspension etc.  That's so far beyond my skill set that I wouldn't even contemplate attempting it, and getting a professional to do it would probably be another couple of grand again.  So the total cost would be more than the car is worth, and I would end up with a structurally and mechanically sound but still quite scruffy Renault 6.  If I didn't love the car so much option 3 wouldn't even be on the list.  It's only nominally on the list for the time being anyway - I can't afford it at the moment.

 

Anyway, the purpose of that rambling post is to get the views of the AS massive.  Which option would you go for, or is there another option that I haven't contemplated?

(PS please note that although this is a rare and poorly old Renault in need of significant loving, this is not a plea for donations to buy new tyres.  The tyres are fine, in fact the front two were new last year.)

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Option 2 to keep it mobile in the meantime but solid enough to survive with less intervention. Get the lanoguard out to slow down further rot.

[Popsicle]

As you've owned it for 17.5 years it's kinda in the realms of a long term keeper.

A sensible mix between options 1 and 2 to keep it running, safe and not deteriorating any further, also yearly slatherings of underseal.

 

[Cavcraft]

It's very easy to say when it's someone else's money, but if you're doing it for  the love of the car and you can (at some point) afford it, it'd always be worth option 3.

Does option two just mean doing some of the work and therefore delaying the inevitable (option three) thus putting even more money into it, and supposing option 3 then becomes further out of sight financially? Then you'd be at an expensive crossroads and end up pretty much having to go for the latter. As much as you obviously love the car, you sometimes have to cut your losses.

Personally, I'd be at option 1, given that although you've had it for such a long time, you could look at it like you saved it from a probable scrapping and gave it so many years so shouldn't feel guilty about eeking out the last couple of years, or so.

[bunglebus]

What does welding mate say? Whatever you chose I don't think you'll be comfortable letting the car fall apart after having it so long, maybe you have to look at a big financial hit now and pay it back over time, much as that goes against my financial principles. 

Are there donor cars in France that can give up cuts to let into yours?

[EyesWeldedShut]

I'm with ^^^Cavcraft. I ran an old Land Rover for a similar period and ended up in the same boat. Your option three would have been great but, at the time, cash flow (moving house) was not up to it. I flogged it. 
Yes, I sometimes kick myself* but, in reality? The chassis was knackered, patched to blazes, I'd learned some very useful skills (welding and swearing) but it was time to just move on and waste  spend my time and money on other chod.  

*rose tinted glasses and all that. 

[mcmolloy1]

I've seen a place called Renault reborn mentioned quite a lot who specialise in R4's. Just checked their website and it's not working but if they're still operating they might be worth pricing for option 2 or 3. 

[Split_Pin]

If you love the car and have the money I'd go for option 3. In that scenario it's (albeit not my) money well spent.

[loserone]

Aye.  Either you continue the path you've trodden and just see how long you can get out of it, or you make a properly determined effort to sort it out.   1 is an ending to the car, and maybe thats appropriate.  3 makes it a forever car, which given it could have become an adult and ready to go to university in the time you've had it, is probably a cheap investment really.

[Stinkwheel]

If it was mine, I'd be doing option 2 or 3, simply because the car needs to live on for you to enjoy it. Leaning towards 2 to get it mostly solid again as if looked after and rust proofed after this, it should buy you many more years of motoring from the wee gallic charmer

[dollywobbler]

Cavcraft speaks much sense. I find myself in a similar position with my 2CV, which I've owned for 25 years. Yet it's absolutely hanging again (Wales really is not the climate for 2CVs) and I'm not sure I've got the stomach for another expensive rebuild, especially given I'm currently averaging a pitiful 2000 miles per year.

Nothing will take those 25 years away from me though, all the memories and adventures. Suspect it'll be the only car I'll ever own for so long. Next year maybe be the year of big decisions.

[wuvvum]

1 hour ago, bunglebus said:

What does welding mate say?

He won't want to patch it up anymore, he more or less said as much last year.  I think the kind of more precise work required to properly let in repair panels would be more than he wants to take on now - he's 67 so getting to the point where he no longer enjoys rolling around under cars anyway.

1 hour ago, bunglebus said:

Are there donor cars in France that can give up cuts to let into yours?

Possibly, but given that the R6 is one of those cars which would rust if it was parked in the middle of the Sahara, and the newest ones are 45 years old now, I wouldn't hold my breath for any scrapyard 6s having structural bits which are good enough to be worth reusing.

[danthecapriman]

Run it ‘as is’ for now. Fix the bits you have to by all means and continue looking after it.

But, start finding and collecting the bits you know you need if you’re intending to keep the car. Start buying repair panels when you find them/can afford them and stockpile them somewhere safe. Then in a few years time when you have what you need start the rebuild. After that wax the living hell out of it to stop it happening again. 
That’s kind of how I did my Capri. I’d been buying the bits I knew I needed many years before the restoration, but still using the car in the meantime.

This is just my opinion of course, but cars like your 6 are now beyond the disposable car stage. They’re too old and rare to just run into the ground and scrapping/racing stuff like this is not cool!

[loserone]

1 minute ago, danthecapriman said:

Run it ‘as is’ for now. Fix the bits you have to by all means and continue looking after it.

The way I read it, that's how the last seventeen years have been.  It may be at a point where this is really at an end

[wuvvum]

1 minute ago, loserone said:

The way I read it, that's how the last seventeen years have been.  It may be at a point where this is really at an end

It's getting to that point - I may have a year or two before it starts to reach the point of no return but I don't want to run the risk of it tipping over the edge.  Also I need to find someone to actually do the work which could take a while - people who will do major structural repairs on ancient rusty French cars for a living are getting few and far between these days.

[Split_Pin]

This sounds like a similar dilemma that @eddyramrod had with Huggy. I think I can speak for him and say he's smitten (see what I did there) with his lovely Omega now.

[motorpunk]

It sounds like it’s at the end of a long and very successful “managed retreat” strategy. You’ve given the lovely old heap 17 years more than it would have had. Even the expensive option 3 isn’t a miracle cure, things still go wrong, and it’ll always cost money. Sure, that’s sort of the point of this site, the fun of keeping shite alive, but I’d be stripping off a few momentos and make a nice garden ornament out of it. Sounds cold, but you’ve done what you (sensibly) can.

[IronStar]

Easy to say with someone else’s money, but the sole fact that you’re seriously deliberating options 3, means that’s what you really want to / should do. If you can afford it, without impacting other, more important aspects of your life, go for it. 
You obviously love the car and want to see it live, and not everything in life is about making sound financial decisions, there’s an aspect of fun and doing things because you can and you enjoy them. 

[High Jetter]

The OP has said option 3 is beyond his talents, which is unfortunate. Pity, because if taken this route could lead to a well-sorted car structurally & mechanically. 

[Rocket88]

Method I once used in the dim and distant part .

Drain all the fluids out of thing, get an old mattress and a few mates round, and roll it on it’s side

Pressure wash it so you can see exactly what you’re dealing with

If it’s terminally shagged, at least you’ll know.

If not ( purists look away now) get the knot wheel out, give it a damn good going over. If you discover no load bearing issues ( suspension mounts etc) slather it in rust converter, and wang copious aminos of fibreglass in it to reinforce the thin bits 

I know it’s a horrendous bodge, but it might prolong it’s life without spending a fortune 

[dozeydustman]

Options 1 & 2 would only delay option 3 IMO. All three options open cans of worms, some more than others. I’m not 100% au fait with the structure of these, but your description makes it sound similar in construction to a Beetle - a floored chassis to which the body is mounted.

Option 1 would only allow further deterioration and I would hazard by your description within a year you’ll be in something structurally unsafe.

I would give the car a thorough appraisal and either go for 2 or 3

Option 2 might be viable if whatever you need to weld or bolt new repair parts to is also in good order and would allow you to buy repair panels as and when you can afford them, but do you and/or welding chum have the skills to make repair panels which are unobtainable? It could be the cost of X, Y and Z, plus making and fitting  A, B and C adds up to the cost of option 3 or greater.
 

If you can dry store the car and save up £100-200 a month for option 3, aren’t too worried about (potentially) losing money should you decide to sell it a little further down the line this would be my preferred option as it has saved a rare car.

 

[Six-cylinder]

A dilemma I have faced a few times over the years and mainly I vote for patching up. Sometimes we have gone much further and spent thousands, it depends how much you love the car. It is never a good financial investment rebuilding classic cars so it depends how YOU feel about the car and are you going to get the investment back in pleasure of ownership.

Me with this one, I would go for option 2, spend £2k and enjoy it for a few more years.

[danthecapriman]

A couple of other options:

1) go to south France, Spain or somewhere warm and dry and buy a solid donor car. I have no doubt you could find one somewhere that’s not rotten like more northern cars are. Mechanicals don’t matter but as long as the shell and panels you need are good. Bring it back here and either use it to re-shell your car or chop out all the good bits your car needs and use them as repair panels for yours. Obviously being from a donor makes them genuine so fit should be good. 
Sounds a ball ache maybe but it might actually end up being less work in the long run. If you re-shell yours it’ll save an immense amount of welding & associated labour.

2) have you considered using a French specialist to repair it? 
Obviously in the motherland they’ll know these cars very well and have experience working on them, which is an advantage. I don’t know this myself, but it’s also probable that costs could be cheaper over there too? 
You could drive or transport your car over having arranged with a restorer/company and fly back? Maybe even combine this option with the other one above, ie; using a donor shell.

[Sigmund Fraud]

1 minute ago, danthecapriman said:

 go to south France, Spain or somewhere warm and dry and buy a solid donor car. I have no doubt you could find one somewhere that’s not rotten like more northern cars are. Mechanicals don’t matter but as long as the shell and panels you need are good. Bring it back here and either use it to re-shell your car or chop out all the good bits your car needs and use them as repair panels for yours. Obviously being from a donor makes them genuine so fit should be good. 
Sounds a ball ache maybe but it might actually end up being less work in the long run. If you re-shell yours it’ll save an immense amount of welding & associated labour.

^ That's what I'd do. Buying the best R6 out there will still cost much less than having yours professionally restored, and you will have the additional benefit of a parts car to help ongoing repairs etc.

[eddyramrod]

I've got no room to talk.  Heart rules head, for better or for worse, almost every time.  If you can accumulate it, then money is replaceable.  The car, any car, is a family member unless you can be a cold-hearted minimalist.  A rare car that you've owned for years is positively something to be proud of.

No room to talk, he says!  FWIW I'm with @danthecapriman above, if it's in any way possible.

[danthecapriman]

Having been in a similar situation myself, here’s my ‘by the way’ bit!

When you do this kind of thing, you obviously know these car well having had it a while, but there absolutely will be a good deal more that you don’t know about and can’t see. 
As soon as you start stripping off paint, underseal etc there WILL always be rot and bodges you come across that you didn’t know about. There was on mine. 
The trouble with patching up and just making do is that it just puts off the inevitable. It also makes things more and more difficult later on because not only do you have to fix the underlying issue but you’ve also got to undo and remove all the mess and temporary fixes too. The other thing to consider is safety. It’s something I don’t go on about much as I’ll drive anything even if it is fucked, but there does come a point where plating and ‘putting things off’ does become a safety issue. 
Do you really want to drive around in something that’s got bits of tin pigeon poo welded over tea bag style structure!? It could even be like that already. Obviously having an accident (touch wood you won’t!) in something like that is not going to end well.

This was the inner sill on my Capri when I got it. It was MOT’d and on the road at this point… but you couldn’t see any of that.

 
This was from the most recent restoration. On the outside it was a couple of small blisters.

That would just snap and fold up if the car was in an accident.  
I’m sure you already know and appreciate all this but do bear it in mind. Sometimes it’s better to not keep making do but accept reality and take it off the road and do it right. Even storing the car then doing it a bit at a time or later when you have more time & funds might be another option?

[Rust Collector]

What about option D, spend a couple of hundred quid on a mig welder and continue the cutting and patching yourself? From what I see of your updates on your fleet and the repair work you do, I think you’d have no problem at all in terms of getting to grips with welding up the underneath of the car to a ‘good enough’ standard.

[jon.k]

I would save up for option C, or think about what I could do/buy with that money and consider doing that instead. 
Do they come up for sale in France in good condition and how much would they cost? 

[chadders]

I effectively did option 3 with my MGB.

New sills alone, never mind the other work, cost a lot more than it was worth financially but 49 years of memories are priceless.

Appearance wise I used some wob and mesh on the small holes in the wings and then rattle canned it last year. It's a 50 footer but I'm not bothered, a good respray would have been about 10k then it'd show up the 51 year old interior etc.etc..

If you think that you might be able to afford option 3 in the future then to me the best course of action would be to Dinitrol/Waxoyl/Lanoguard it to give you a breathing space. Maybe buy a good car cover as well. The front chassis leg seems to be the key thing in option 2 and I don't know enough to judge how viable this option is.

[eddyramrod]

Option D requires a suitable indoor space in which to work.  Brilliant option, certainly, but some sort of workshop is pretty much essential.