The Range Rover Appreciation Thread

[83C]

Well, appreciation, frustration, anger or whatever other emotion your ‘Best 4x4xFar’ has stirred within you. 

I know there’s a few people on here with various versions of Range Rover, so whether it’s a YVB-H prototype or a brand new one this is the thread for moans and groans when it’s bloody broken again joyous talk of utterly reliable machines.

I’ve had a few, a 1989 Vogue SE with the 3.5 V8, a couple of V8 P38s, and for the last 4 years an L322 Vogue SE.

The L322 is by far the one I’ve owned the longest and done the most miles in, nearly 25,000 since 2021 and still going strong. It has required a regular spend on parts but 221,000 miles does mean a fair bit of wear and tear - nothing I’ve spent on has been anything surprising, and it’s the machine I’d trust to take me anywhere. It is however coming off the road at the end of January for a few weeks because there are some things that are well overdue, not least the rear airbags which do slowly leak (the front struts and bags were replaced a few months ago), two parking sensors have failed, a CV boot is split, it needs a service and a few other small jobs which all keep getting put off because it’s too useful for family trips and for the dog to have enough space. 

Anyone else similarly afflicted with these fine machines?

 

[straightSix]

A RRC is a dream car of mine for sure. My brother has had a few L322s and the Jaguar engined 4.4 V8 for sale on here originally belonged to my friend. I'd absolutely love one but insurance is toxic for me which is gutting. A 4.4 tdv8 is on the list at some point though 

[hairnet]

*waits for @Six-cylinder shitshow

[Spiny Norman]

I'd love one, either a P38 or a L322, preferably the V8 petrol. I don't do enough miles to give a toss about the fuel consumption but I hadn't realised insurance for them was getting so difficult.

Edit: ESure want £530 for a 2005 V8 Vogue, about £150 more than I'm paying for my CRV but not horrendous.

[Split_Pin]

I am very tempted to shatter my Saab dream and buy Minimad5s L322.

[captain_cal]

10 hours ago, 83C said:

it’s the machine I’d trust to take me anywhere

Funny how this works, by received wisdom these are the single most unreliable car in history, yet owners swear by them.

There really is nothing like a full-size Range Rover. Since my dad taught me to drive in the fields in his two-door, between us we have owned a few Classics and at least half-a-dozen P38s (and one disastrous L322 - Td6 gearboxes fail at 80-100k miles usually - who bought one with 200k on the clock and was surprised when it went bang? Luckily not me).

Dad has a fascination with diesel P38s but for me only the V8 will do - I somehow managed to buy one of the gooduns and having just ticked over 160k it continues to provide sterling service. Has many small failings (lacquer peel, inop cruise control, iffy blend motors, mild death wobble, 14mpg no matter how you drive it) but continues to soldier on. Bought it off my great-uncle, who in turn bought it off its first owner, a gentleman farmer - so I have all the history and know exactly where it's been. It's a family heirloom now - I struggle like hell with getting bored of stuff and discarding it but it has never crossed my mind to sell this one, I'll end up sleeping in it before I have to sell it. I get tempted by other ones almost weekly but I know I'll struggle to find another one with such a proven track record - better the devil you know!!!

[captain_cal]

It does actual work occasionally too.

[83C]

7 minutes ago, captain_cal said:

Funny how this works, by received wisdom these are the single most unreliable car in history, yet owners swear by them.

There really is nothing like a full-size Range Rover. Since my dad taught me to drive in the fields in his two-door, between us we have owned a few Classics and at least half-a-dozen P38s (and one disastrous L322 - Td6 gearboxes fail at 80-100k miles usually - who bought one with 200k on the clock and was surprised when it went bang? Luckily not me).

I think the big problem is that with P38 and L322 in particular they’ve both dropped into the hands of people who can’t/won’t spend on the maintenance, combined with mileages reaching the points where components need replacing, so when the inevitable happens and the air compressor gives up because nobody has serviced it, or they skimp on oil changes and the turbo shits itself (TDV8s in particular) they’ll go on Facebook groups or forums and moan about how unreliable their Range Rover is. The RRC didn’t suffer as much because (later air suspension aside) it was essentially still basic and easy to fix, apart from the inner shell rotting out. 

My L322 has been reliable, but in the 25,000 miles I’ve owned it I’ve replaced the discs & pads, rear calipers, starter motor, propshaft and centre bearing, all of the front suspension, the air compressor, battery and a few other bits. It’s not unreliable, it’s just that after 200,000+ miles many of those bits were still the originals and therefore knackered, which shouldn’t surprise anyone. Still on the original GM 5L40E gearbox too, but service them every 50-60k and they’ll last a lot longer. I’m still expecting it to fail at some point, but then I’ll go for a ZF6 conversion. 

P38 I think gets a bad press (a bit unfairly in some ways) but it was as big a departure from anything that had gone before at Lode Lane as the original Range Rover was, this time with added electronics and less of the farm appliance running gear simplicity. My early 4.0 SE was fine apart from a crap aftermarket LPG installation (single point that would blow the pipe off the inlet manifold if given too much throttle), the later 4.6 not so much - it suffered the 4.6’s usual party trick of a cylinder liner slipping with all the issues that gives. Fixable with the block reconditoned and machined to accept top hat liners, but not worth it on a £1k machine. 

[Jerzy Woking]

Watching Auto Alex on YouTube, they keep buying RR's, then spending a fortune to get them running and safe.

Are the cheap X5's and Cayennes a better bet, reliability wise, if not image wise?

[captain_cal]

26 minutes ago, 83C said:

Still on the original GM 5L40E gearbox too, but service them every 50-60k and they’ll last a lot longer. I’m still expecting it to fail at some point, but then I’ll go for a ZF6 conversion.

Is yours a Td6 then? I did so much reading when our gearbox went tits and came to the conclusion that the ally valve black in the GM box was too soft and not fit for purpose, regardless of oil changes - there used to be a company in the states that driled and sleeved them but never worth it on such a worthless car.

Mine is mostly original I think - pretty sure my cousin replaced the bags in previous ownership but engine/gearbox is all sound. It's starting to get a little snatchy on full lock which points to the viscous coupling, and it definitely needs new shocks and a compressor rebuild lol - I have three valve blocks waiting, just yet to buy the kit.

Oh and a new Wabco brake accumulator - takes a minute to build up pressure in the morning, and at my dad's old place used to send you backwards down the drive pretty sharpish if you tried to take off the handbrake before it woke up!

22 minutes ago, Jerzy Woking said:

Watching Auto Alex on YouTube, they keep buying RR's, then spending a fortune to get them running and safe.

Are the cheap X5's and Cayennes a better bet, reliability wise, if not image wise?

I am of the opinion that he is a sensationalist overly shouty twat and that anything portrayed on his channel is very far from the truth,

[83C]

16 minutes ago, Jerzy Woking said:

Watching Auto Alex on YouTube, they keep buying RR's, then spending a fortune to get them running and safe.

Are the cheap X5's and Cayennes a better bet, reliability wise, if not image wise?

I don’t know to be honest, not watched Auto Alex and not had any dealings with fixing X5s or Cayennes. Certainly they will both be suffering the same issues in terms of having reached the sort of owners who want the look but can’t afford the bills, so no difference there. L322 and early X5 are pretty closely related so certain weaknesses will be common to both. However it does depend on what you want them for, the Range Rover and Cayenne will both tow 3.5t whereas the X5 is 2.7t, I don’t know about the Cayenne off road but having driven an X5 in mud and snow it was ok, but felt like a normal AWD road only car in terms of its limitations. 

I think the Cayenne’s biggest problem is its close cousin - the VW Touareg. If I couldn’t have a Range Rover I’d find it very difficult to look past a Touareg, with the 3.0 V6 TDI, they’re supposed to be very capable all rounders. Parts prices without Porsche Badge Tax aren’t a bad thing either. 

23 minutes ago, captain_cal said:

Is yours a Td6 then? I did so much reading when our gearbox went tits and came to the conclusion that the ally valve black in the GM box was too soft and not fit for purpose, regardless of oil changes - there used to be a company in the states that driled and sleeved them but never worth it on such a worthless car.

Yes, M57 Td6. Excellent engine, shame they didn’t fit a beefier gearbox. People knock the Td6 and say it’s slow but as ever a bit of maintenance helps massively - replace the vacuum lines to the boost solenoid and thoroughly clean out the inlet manifold. The engine itself is capable of much more power, in the L322 with 177bhp it’s very understressed and of course doesn’t have a DPF to deal with. It isn’t particularly quick but I’ve always found it adequate, and with a tri-axle Ifor Williams on the back and a Mini Countryman it barely noticed. 650 mile range on a run isn’t to be sniffed at either, which translates to almost 30mpg. 

[Six-cylinder]

17 hours ago, hairnet said:

*waits for @Six-cylinder shitshow

In 2002 my 1992 Mercedes 300 24v TE developed a head gasket leak and the Mercedes specialist garage I took it to could not find it. In the end it got worse and Friday night I needed a car for Monday morning to go to work, as it was summer I thought a series Land Rover would be fun. I could not find one I liked so settled for a green 1985 Range Rover 3.5 carb Auto which we still have.

I took to it like a duck to water and drove it as a daily. I have a friend who belonged to a local 4x4 club so it was not long before I started green laning it. The Mercedes was fixed but we thought we were moving to the USA so it was sold. I kept using the Range Rover as my main car until in 2004 when we found we were not going to the USA. I then bought a 1997 Audi A6 2.4 Auto to use daily from an auction and found the gearbox was bad and kept using the green Range Rover.

--

I took the green Range Rover in for a service to a local specialist and came out with a second Range Rover, this time a 1989 black 3.5 EFi Vogue. It was in beautiful condition and became my best daily car, but the green Range Rover remained for working and off roading.  This black paint, black leather, black wheels and black windows Range Rover felt like it had come out of the Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy, “It's the weird colour scheme that freaks me. Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls, which are labelled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to let you know you've done it”.

I loved it, but the same garage who had sold it to me a year later asked if I still wanted it because they had also offered it to another customer when I bought it and they kept on about could they buy it yet. I had enjoyed it and it had not cost me any money so I sold it.

--

This takes us to Dec 2005 when I bought a 1997 P38 4.6HSE in great condition. I felt a million dollars driving it home. Within a week an airbag had failed and it broke regularly, only did 16 mpg, but I still loved it and kept it 5 years.

--

In Dec 2010 I bought a silver with grey leather L322 TD6 Vogue. It felt like a dream come true so special. It also functioned very well handing our 2000kg boat with ease, even getting it up a wet slippery boat ramp, tighter turning circle than the P38, cruised beautifully and the 22 mpg beat the P38’s hand down. The only flaw was overtaking acceleration and joining a motorway was slow. It had a fair number of fails air suspension bags, air pump, injectors and diesel pump.  In the end the rust was getting to it and the info screen stopped working for a second time.

I had it 9 years and still a driving usable car when I sold it.

--

In 2015 a friend wanted to sell his dark grey 1992 Range Rover 3.9 EFi Vogue SE Classic Auto and offered it to me and I jumped at it. Rather nicer than my 1985 so it was not long and another friend wanted it so I sold it to him. After all I still had a L322 for posh our 1985 classic for being a beast of burden and off roading now running on Mud tyres.

--

Mrs6C said I should just upgrade to a late L322 but the thought of £700 road tax just killed it for me so in January 2020 I bought a 2016 L405 TDV6 Vouge with £260 road tax. I have had it nearly 5 years but it never felt as special as the L322. Don’t get me wrong it is a great car, much faster, much more economic 35 mpg, and it is lovely to drive.

I had problems when I got it as an approved Land Rover used car with them giving it a lesser service than it was due and not changing the rear brake pipes when they were an advisory at 3 years old on the MOT. Then this year it has been a pain, first emissions because a flap was not closing and the regens were not happening properly. Then one day it would not start, turns out to be the electric steering lock not sending a signal to the ECU that it could start. It took 8 weeks for the parts and a big bill.

The L405 scares me as the older cars broke but you could fix them, this one is so systems led that it scares me! I would consider going back to an older Range Rover.

--

While the first ownership of Range Rovers was not until 2002 my friend and later car boss always had early 2 doors and I got to drive those about in the 1990s.

[320touring]

Certainly have to say that the L322 that @dome had was most appreciable. It rode well, went well and seemed to cause no major issues.

 

I think @dome's proactive maintenance probably helped a fair bit - and should I ever decide to appreciate one from closer than afar, I'll endeavour to take a similar approach 

[Dyslexic Viking]

16 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

That looks good. 

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

That looks good. 

It was the only car I have had where people avoided a tussle with me, I guess they were concerned a gun would appear from those darkened windows!

It was good to be able to sell smarties for £10 each!

[Marina door handles]

Between me and Mrs MDH we have had a grand total of err ................2 P38 Range Rovers between us. 

Hers was the first, it was a 4.6 HSE bought for a mere £1300.  It  was probably not the best example to start with, it had some odd issues. Only the passenger side elements of the heated front windscreen worked and only the passenger side heated seat worked - fantastic on a frosty morning! 

The air suspension worked without fault, the body and chassis were virtually rust free not bad for a 20+ year old car. One day the engine decided to shake off the connector to the idle control sensor, which caught us by surprise, when I pulled into a parking space and the car stalled (neat trick in an automatic!).  To rescue the situation I ended up left foot braking it at junctions so I could keep my foot on the throttle (to stop it just stalling) to get us back home! Fortunately an easy fix just plug the sensor back in and the engine idled once again.

It regularly suffered form the dreaded "engine disabled" imobiliser issue. Ended up buying a new key for from Land Rover to stop it reoccurring.

Sadly that car suffered what Bentley engineers term "a thermal event" and burnt itself to car death after it was parked up - the suspect was the heated windscreen?

The second RR was mine, a 2.5 DSE gifted by my FIL who struggled to drive it and didn't want to see it scrapped.  

Nice car, again solid rust free, they definitely got the rust proofing right on these cars. The electrics how ever...

The car did run nicely for a year or so but whilst at its last MOT.... it decided to throw a wobbly "engine disabled" sadly no amount of EKA messing or key fiddling would start it. It needed its BCM rebuilding which I couldn't justify as I was in the middle of a house move and it ended up at Co part 😪

I do miss that car they have a solidity and character that I really like.

 

[hairnet]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

SNIPATRON

 

 

 

 

 

im not gonna ask about that but

❤️ 

cant dis you cos you use it like a madman  (or @Mrs6C shows you how )

[stuboy]

id love and automatic Range rover or discovery........... be right for my future medical requirements, just not in my budget room

[comfortablynumb]

MK1 sons two door.

Bonus dog

[ianbmw]

Oooooo I am so joining in with this one!

Purchased new by my late grand Father, who needed a car so walked his old English sheep dog to Woburn Land Rover and amazingly, the only car they had to take there and then was a brand new Range Rover…..funny that.

quite simply, the jewel of my automotive adventures and will be with me until the government bans unleaded…..of which is V8 and 3 speed auto drinks lots of.

Now has 38k miles on it and used as intended…….because if you don’t make memories with them , your kids won’t want them.

 

[ianbmw]

2 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

In 2002 my 1992 Mercedes 300 24v TE developed a head gasket leak and the Mercedes specialist garage I took it to could not find it. In the end it got worse and Friday night I needed a car for Monday morning to go to work, as it was summer I thought a series Land Rover would be fun. I could not find one I liked so settled for a green 1985 Range Rover 3.5 carb Auto which we still have.

I took to it like a duck to water and drove it as a daily. I have a friend who belonged to a local 4x4 club so it was not long before I started green laning it. The Mercedes was fixed but we thought we were moving to the USA so it was sold. I kept using the Range Rover as my main car until in 2004 when we found we were not going to the USA. I then bought a 1997 Audi A6 2.4 Auto to use daily from an auction and found the gearbox was bad and kept using the green Range Rover.

--

I took the green Range Rover in for a service to a local specialist and came out with a second Range Rover, this time a 1989 black 3.5 EFi Vogue. It was in beautiful condition and became my best daily car, but the green Range Rover remained for working and off roading.  This black paint, black leather, black wheels and black windows Range Rover felt like it had come out of the Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy, “It's the weird colour scheme that freaks me. Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls, which are labelled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to let you know you've done it”.

I loved it, but the same garage who had sold it to me a year later asked if I still wanted it because they had also offered it to another customer when I bought it and they kept on about could they buy it yet. I had enjoyed it and it had not cost me any money so I sold it.

--

This takes us to Dec 2005 when I bought a 1997 P38 4.6HSE in great condition. I felt a million dollars driving it home. Within a week an airbag had failed and it broke regularly, only did 16 mpg, but I still loved it and kept it 5 years.

--

In Dec 2010 I bought a silver with grey leather L322 TD6 Vogue. It felt like a dream come true so special. It also functioned very well handing our 2000kg boat with ease, even getting it up a wet slippery boat ramp, tighter turning circle than the P38, cruised beautifully and the 22 mpg beat the P38’s hand down. The only flaw was overtaking acceleration and joining a motorway was slow. It had a fair number of fails air suspension bags, air pump, injectors and diesel pump.  In the end the rust was getting to it and the info screen stopped working for a second time.

I had it 9 years and still a driving usable car when I sold it.

--

In 2015 a friend wanted to sell his dark grey 1992 Range Rover 3.9 EFi Vogue SE Classic Auto and offered it to me and I jumped at it. Rather nicer than my 1985 so it was not long and another friend wanted it so I sold it to him. After all I still had a L322 for posh our 1985 classic for being a beast of burden and off roading now running on Mud tyres.

--

Mrs6C said I should just upgrade to a late L322 but the thought of £700 road tax just killed it for me so in January 2020 I bought a 2016 L405 TDV6 Vouge with £260 road tax. I have had it nearly 5 years but it never felt as special as the L322. Don’t get me wrong it is a great car, much faster, much more economic 35 mpg, and it is lovely to drive.

I had problems when I got it as an approved Land Rover used car with them giving it a lesser service than it was due and not changing the rear brake pipes when they were an advisory at 3 years old on the MOT. Then this year it has been a pain, first emissions because a flap was not closing and the regens were not happening properly. Then one day it would not start, turns out to be the electric steering lock not sending a signal to the ECU that it could start. It took 8 weeks for the parts and a big bill.

The L405 scares me as the older cars broke but you could fix them, this one is so systems led that it scares me! I would consider going back to an older Range Rover.

--

While the first ownership of Range Rovers was not until 2002 my friend and later car boss always had early 2 doors and I got to drive those about in the 1990s.

I translated all that waffle into…. Ian when are you fixing my Range Rover

[Six-cylinder]

40 minutes ago, ianbmw said:

I translated all that waffle into…. Ian when are you fixing my Range Rover

My green one, I think a neurosurgeon would struggle with a L405!

I can afford to pay!

[Leyland Worldmaster]

The first 4WD vehicle I drove was an L322. When new. It took ages to pluck up the courage to ask if I could drive it.

 

When I was suddenly handed the key, the owner said: 

"You gonna drive it then?"

I did, and to a boy in his early twenties, this was a big deal.

I felt the dog's bollocks driving that car. 

[warch]

There are loads of tossers online experts* recycling endless bollocks about how crap Landrover/Range Rover vehicles based on absolutely no first hand experience or having bought the first one they saw/cheapest on eBay. Shouty Yanks on YouTube videos tend to exert an undue influence on general opinion too, as do Aussies who tend to regard their opinions or experiences of 4x4s in high regard (most Australian 4x4s live in antiseptically clean suburbia). 
 

There are still plenty of 20 year old Range Rovers floating majestically about the place, my mate has just bought a pre soft dash early 90s Range Rover classic which looks in good order. 
 

A well looked after example will last for decades, one run on a shoestring will eventually run up a laundry list of expensive to fix issues, much like any other executive car/upmarket 4x4. 

 

[EyesWeldedShut]

My 2p worth.

1983, 2 door, auto in a metallic gold colour. Bought around 1996 as a towing vehicle for horse trailers - lasted three years. Worked it hard across UK/France. 
It had a bad oil leak down the back of the engine which we eventually found was due to the fact that it had two valley gasket studs snapped off in the head. 
Never had to do a proper oil change though and the chassis never rusted  
Pretty simple car to look after, FTP'd twice on fuel pump. Needed some welding to the floors in front, I think that was all it needed in about 3 years of ownership.

1989/90, EFi Vogue, 4 door, auto in pogweezle. Owned it 2000 - 2006. Last of the 3.5 EFi era before they went 3.9 and serpentine belt. Converted it to LPG and it also worked hard as a tow car. Once I moved in with my missus it became her daily driver.
Nicer place to be in/drive than the 1983 one but, mechanically, much needier thing to own. Needed a fair bit of welding to the steel body bits (front inner wings, floor panels, rear arches behind the doors, boot floor -usual stuff. New cam/timing chain. Steering damper. Top tailgate was fecked. Power steering pump. Steering box. Fuel tank then split at the welded seam and the LPG (single point) backfired and blue the arse out of the airbox. New one was £££, mojo had gone - bye bye.

I still feel the urge for a P38 but good 'uns seem rare - L322 ditto - they're cheap as chips now but looking at the ultra low profile tyres and non-service history on most of them? Hmmm. Newer than that and  I think it's getting into C6 ownership country?

(Got a wee FreeLander (manual) to play with at the moment, I'm pretty sure t'missus likes the thing so I could 'suggest' swapping that for a P38 auto ......)

 

[EyesWeldedShut]

p.s. how about a 1987 3.5 EFi with just 25,000 miles https://www.brightwells.com/timed-sale/5718/lot/761483?returnUrl=%2ftimed-sale%2f5718

Feb auction @ Brightwells - probate sale, also a P6 from the same source

[comfortablynumb]

Land rover will refurb a classic for you, for £135,000, and you have to supply the base rangie.

Doesn't look like that's going to happen for mine then