project Rover P4 110 - Gone

[lesapandre]

Myself I'd fit a modern servo - and get the original refurbished and kept as a spare. Running without the servo on servo car I'd not recommend IMHO.

[bobdisk]

Wondering with the repairs to the brakes, would it be possible to fit a dual circuit system with a modern servo. Also how about fitting a freewheel from an older model. I wonder? Only freewheels I have driven were 2-strokes, a Saab 96, and a Trabant. First time was a bit scary, a Trabi Safari in Berlin! Nearly had the back of the leader! ( http://www.trabi-safari.de/  )

[Matty]

Just caught up with this properly. Absolutely fucking superb. Really pleased for you Si. Now for fucks sake, please don't poke it 😁

[Matty]

Joking aside, this is the right way to do it. Buy a scruffy car that is already seeing regular use and you pretty much know you've a turn key motor. Alright you'll probably have a few bits of mechanical stuff to do to get on top of it, but then you've got something you can really get some use out of without worrying about it!

[SiC]

31 minutes ago, Matty said:

Joking aside, this is the right way to do it. Buy a scruffy car that is already seeing regular use and you pretty much know you've a turn key motor.

Which is still managed to break before even leaving the road I live on 🙉🙈

[bobdisk]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:05 PM, Saabnut said:

Good old buses these, good choice. I have a 105S to break for spares, think the front bumper is OK but no time to actually do anything for the next 3-4 months. Will check the bumper though when it stops raining

What's wrong with your 105s that its being scrapped?

[artdjones]

19 hours ago, SiC said:

I went for a run up and down the road yesterday to give it a try out. One of the things I did was stomp hard on the brake pedal. I always do this on a new classic car I buy to test out the brakes.

Its a harsh test that shows several things and all of which I want to find out before I have to do it in an emergency. Firstly are the brakes strong enough to lock the wheels. Secondly is the hydraulic system strong enough to withstand the hard force applied. Thirdly do they release back off without sticking.

Yesterday it did all those things and I ticked off the brakes as perfectly serviceable. Remember the previous owner drove this from Windsor on the motorway and through Central London.
One of the things I did notice was a big plume of white smoke. This wasn't water and smelt distinctively hydrocarbon. I put this down to overfuelling as it was sat idling a while and I think it's running a bit rich.

Today I started up on the drive and went to manoeuvre it. I noticed the pedal was pretty soft and it went to the floor. Hmm.
Checked the brake fluid reservoir...


That's not good!

I filled up the reservoir and gave the pedal a few pumps to try to get some pressure back into the system. In doing so I had some pretty impressive white smoke come out the back!


Revs increase too. This all points to the brake servo going to need a rebuild.
Annoying but that's life with an old car. The previous owner did report some white smoke but the consensus of the P4 Drivers Guild FB page was that it probably was condensation build up in the exhaust. I probably finished it off by stomping on that pedal 🫣

But I'd rather this happen than driving at the weekend down a steep hill on the way to the classic meet I intended to go in this. Doesn't look likely I'll be going to that in this car this weekend. Oh well, I'll have to drag out the BGT and hope that behaves.

Looking in the box of bits of spares, there is another servo.



Incidentally also a singular overrider


Then this weird cylindrical object. Cylinder liner? I also found some new piston rings and an old rocker shaft too.


Looks like it's had engine work in its past. No bad thing.

Now I need to decide what route to go down with the servo. Rebuilt units are on a 2 week lead time from the usual P4 suppliers. There is a rebuild kit too.
Or there is a kit to convert the car to a modern Lockheed servo.

I don't want to wait 2 weeks really for a rebuild. P4 Drivers Guild Facebook group says convert. I'm thinking the rebuild kit on that spare servo...
I'll possibly change the master while I'm doing this work too.

Definitely do the master cylinder at the same time, if fluid is getting into the inlet manifold it's being sucked past the cylinder seals.  Which may not do them any good.

[artdjones]

19 hours ago, SiC said:

I went for a run up and down the road yesterday to give it a try out. One of the things I did was stomp hard on the brake pedal. I always do this on a new classic car I buy to test out the brakes.

Its a harsh test that shows several things and all of which I want to find out before I have to do it in an emergency. Firstly are the brakes strong enough to lock the wheels. Secondly is the hydraulic system strong enough to withstand the hard force applied. Thirdly do they release back off without sticking.

Yesterday it did all those things and I ticked off the brakes as perfectly serviceable. Remember the previous owner drove this from Windsor on the motorway and through Central London.
One of the things I did notice was a big plume of white smoke. This wasn't water and smelt distinctively hydrocarbon. I put this down to overfuelling as it was sat idling a while and I think it's running a bit rich.

Today I started up on the drive and went to manoeuvre it. I noticed the pedal was pretty soft and it went to the floor. Hmm.
Checked the brake fluid reservoir...


That's not good!

I filled up the reservoir and gave the pedal a few pumps to try to get some pressure back into the system. In doing so I had some pretty impressive white smoke come out the back!


Revs increase too. This all points to the brake servo going to need a rebuild.
Annoying but that's life with an old car. The previous owner did report some white smoke but the consensus of the P4 Drivers Guild FB page was that it probably was condensation build up in the exhaust. I probably finished it off by stomping on that pedal 🫣

But I'd rather this happen than driving at the weekend down a steep hill on the way to the classic meet I intended to go in this. Doesn't look likely I'll be going to that in this car this weekend. Oh well, I'll have to drag out the BGT and hope that behaves.

Looking in the box of bits of spares, there is another servo.



Incidentally also a singular overrider


Then this weird cylindrical object. Cylinder liner? I also found some new piston rings and an old rocker shaft too.


Looks like it's had engine work in its past. No bad thing.

Now I need to decide what route to go down with the servo. Rebuilt units are on a 2 week lead time from the usual P4 suppliers. There is a rebuild kit too.
Or there is a kit to convert the car to a modern Lockheed servo.

I don't want to wait 2 weeks really for a rebuild. P4 Drivers Guild Facebook group says convert. I'm thinking the rebuild kit on that spare servo...
I'll possibly change the master while I'm doing this work too.

Definitely do the master cylinder at the same time, if fluid is getting into the inlet manifold it's being sucked past the cylinder seals.  Which may not do them any good. Or duff seals may be causing the problem in the first place.

[808 Estate]

I would lightly sand the bumper to get rid of loose rust and give it a coat of matt varnish to keep the look.

[SiC]

I bit the bullet. 

Spoke to the chap at John Wearing (presumably John) on the phone. He said apparently the manufacturer of Lockheed servos has recently gone into administration. So buy one soon as he won't be able to necessarily get any more. I asked about the remanufactured master and new master differences. He said their workshop has fitted loads of the new masters and they've not given a problem. 

So bought servo, master and a bunch of tune up bits. Last owner I believe replaced the front hoses with the pads. Hence just the new rear hose. I really hoping the rear cylinders are okay. They are available but another £130. Won't really know until I look there. 

Anyway that was a quick way to spend nearly 500 quid. New tyres may have to wait till next month now.

 

[Saabnut]

6 hours ago, bobdisk said:

What's wrong with your 105s that its being scrapped?

A shed roof fell on it and squashed it badly, meant I could buy it cheap!

[HMC]

Do you think you will go for cross ply or radials? I think longstone have some options but some are £££££. Currently mine has cheap brand modern radials.

[SiC]

I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. This chap is running on 185/80/15 Ovations on his P4 with a big tuned Ford V8. Apparently they dig in very well once off the line. 

While not exactly decent tyres compared to a modern hi performance radial, they're by far enough an improvement over any old crossply. Unfortunately nothing in between the HiFly/ovation and the mega expensive tyres.

[SiC]

For those not aware, you can get period correct tyres from the big tyre manufacturers. However they come out at quite a hefty price tag. 

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/rover/p4.html

Hopefully sierraman isn't reading this thread. He'll risk having a seizure when he sees those Michelin prices!

In reality, they're likely to be put on classic Jags/Astons/Ferrari/etc that are worth five, size or even seven figures.

[Surface Rust]

I replaced the (admittedly very old) Avon crossplies on mine with the Hi-Flys(ies?).

It was a revelation, haven't found the limit yet!

They do make the steering heavy for parking though.

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. This chap is running on 185/80/15 Ovations on his P4 with a big tuned Ford V8. Apparently they dig in very well once off the line. 

While not exactly decent tyres compared to a modern hi performance radial, they're by far enough an improvement over any old crossply. Unfortunately nothing in between the HiFly/ovation and the mega expensive tyres.

There are these, supposed to be good for steering weight, but still expensive,  not quite at Michelin levels, though.

https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185vr15

[SiC]

9 minutes ago, artdjones said:

There are these, supposed to be good for steering weight, but still expensive,  not quite at Michelin levels, though.

https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185vr15

You can get nearly 4 Ovation for one of them though!

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m53b0s1143p142926/Ovation_Tyres_Car_Ovation_VI682_Ecovision_Ovation_VI_682_-_185_80_R15_93T_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

[Stanky]

Would the rims take a 195 section tyre? There is flipping loads of 195/75r15 tyres available and rolling radius is virtually the same as a 185/80r15

[SiC]

No idea! All I know is that 185/80/15 is the size recommend. 

[wuvvum]

3 hours ago, SiC said:

I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. 

At least you have a choice.  When I was looking for tyres for the Volvo, the only new tyres available in the correct size were Nankangs.  When a pair of little-used Dunlops came up for slightly less than the price of a pair of new Nankangs I nabbed them straight away.  The Volvo is understeery enough as it is without adding cheap tyres to the mix.

[High Jetter]

My van is on Nankangs, no issues so far

[wuvvum]

My Toyota has Nankangs on the front.  They are OK-ish in the dry, but I have to be very circumspect pulling out of junctions in the wet - and the Toyota isn't exactly overpowered...

[SiC]

Box of bits has arrived ready for the weekend.


Far more boxes in there than I expected. I did wonder if I got the wrong order for a bit.


But it turns out they have sent a load of period correct boxes for my collection (presumably it's really just padding for the box)


Also plenty of boxes in boxes for some reason too



Then this included newspaper made me chuckle. A monthly Land Rover paper that can be picked up from your local LR specialist! Presumably because you're either ordering one from every month or having to visit one every month to have it fixed?


Instructions for the servo install recommend relocating it to the front wing. A benefit of which gives better access to the steering box. Useful presumably because its maintenance is part of the service schedule.

[cobblers]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:24 PM, SiC said:

 

Plan is to wire wheel the front bumper and give my Halfords can of Chrome spray paint a go. I can't make it any worse!

 

I beg of you, don't do this! You might not think it can be any worse, but from my experience of all chrome paints(including halfords), it will look flipping terrible to start with like some sort of cheap chinese christmas decoration, and very quickly deteriorate to even worse. 

 

Anyway, what a buy! you're an inspiration

[Snake Charmer]

I fitted some American Hercules tyres to a friends Jensen CV8 with the whitewall inside. I was dubious about them initially but found them better than the Pirelli P4's we removed, even in the wet.  They might do the correct size for Aunty.

[wuvvum]

I have to say I've never managed to find any chrome spray paint that wasn't utter shit.  You'd have more success with chrome tape - applied carefully it can look OK, nowhere near as good as genuine chrome obviously but from 20 feet away it'll be a definite improvement.

[bobdisk]

Used chrome tape inside the headlights of on old Sierra,  to replace the reflectors. Worked a treat!

[RayMK]

30 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I have to say I've never managed to find any chrome spray paint that wasn't utter shit.  You'd have more success with chrome tape - applied carefully it can look OK, nowhere near as good as genuine chrome obviously but from 20 feet away it'll be a definite improvement.

It has been my experience as well. I have not found any that are durable enough for exterior use.  I used zinc primer after wire brushing the corrosion and patched some holes by fibreglassing from the back before using aluminium tape on my Reliant's rear bumper, polished then lacquered.  As you say, it's an improvement on rust and decay when viewed at 20ft.  Photo added. Note the tidy* garage.

I've had HiFly tyres a few times when I had the Stellar and once on the Tipo prior to the current matching set of god knows what make.  All have been surprisingly acceptable even in the wet.  Not sure how they'd behave with such a strong understeering car like a P4 110 though. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by RayMK
Photo added

[vulgalour]

Another vote against chrome paint here too, it's not really designed to recreate actual chrome, more just provide a mirror finish you never ever touch.  I did find cleaning the rusty chrome back with fine wire wool and then dotting in the rust pits with a Molotow chrome pen worked surprisingly well, even without lacquer.  The rust will still come back, obviously, but it might work for you on this one since you're not wanting a perfect finish.  You can get refills for the chrome pens too so you can then paint it on the larger areas.  It stays in the pitted areas as a dull chrome after a few rain spells and can be topped up at any point as often as you like.  You do need to wash brushes in thinners when you use it and try not to get it on your hands for the same reason.

[SiC]

V5 came for this today. Just nipped down at lunchtime and converted it to historic tax class. 

Now the only excuse left for taking it on a drive is I need to fit that box of bits that has arrived!

1 hour ago, cobblers said:

Anyway, what a buy! you're an inspiration on how to burn money quicker than earn

FTFY

39 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

You can get refills for the chrome pens too so you can then paint it on the larger areas. 

This job might need quite a few refills 😅

What chrome there is left is about to peel off anyway!

Good idea on the chrome tape. I remember seeing that on Facebook as a tip (might have been Bad Chad and one of the few tips of his actually that was good). That might be easier than paint. Especially as paint and me are never in harmony.