project Rover P4 110 - Gone

[SiC]

34 minutes ago, Cookiesouwest said:

Very very very very very very very very very well bought

Providing I get the V5 back in time so I can do the historic tax class, I plan to go to here on Sunday for its first jaunt out:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid09guYGGa3rpthHMYCa1taV5aDWLQ3N26smWg8p5831iycJCPwEELM6Ux4FXF7XHaSl&id=100057188151491

Not as well publicised this year but last there was a very good turnout of a lot of interesting stuff if you're interested. Plus I plan to go to the Thursday Chew Valley meets and the new Sunday Cheddar meets. 

Do you have third party cover on your insurance? If so and you see me, let me know and you can give it a spin.

[SiC]

Only sad thing is that I have zero history on this car. The last chap didn't get any from the dealer either.

My only hope is what might be lurking in the glovebox. There is no key and I don't think it's been opened in a long time. I need to dig out and find my lock picking set...

[captain_70s]

Does GDPR meant that technically no car leaving a dealer should contain anything featuring prior owner's details?

[High Jetter]

That looks like a genuine Auntie that hasn't lost her fluids facilities. Well bought, might be longer term than you think!

[tooSavvy]

2 hours ago, stuboy said:

long decreased friend was always getting around to his rover but never finished it..

He'd be the 'lesser man' for that...

Sad for your loss.

🚙💨

[SiC]

6 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Has the chrome all actually gone on the bumper?

Yeah she's fooked.

 

[SiC]

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

Does GDPR meant that technically no car leaving a dealer should contain anything featuring prior owner's details?

I have heard that mentioned but I think it's a misnomer. Certainly I've not found history to disappear when buying cars from dealers in recent years post gdpr.

Iirc it's because it's related to the vehicle and not related to the individual as such. Or something along those lines.

[SiC]

I made a walk and talk video yesterday. One cut and a bit rambling. I was going to edit it down but I probably never get around to it, so I've chucked it up as is. 

Gives an idea closer up on the car and a fiddle with some of the controls. (I still don't know what all the stalks do)

 

[High Jetter]

Owner's manual for £8? https://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/owners-handbook-late.html

I haz a parts catalogue for those if you need any numberz

[danthecapriman]

9 hours ago, SiC said:

Yeah she's fooked.

 

Hmm, yeah. I think that’s a bit beyond polish & wire wool!😆

[barrett]

Lovely. Always fancied a P4, and obviously the one to have is a pre-1955 car for the looks, but I've been keeping an eye out for ages and they just don't seem to come up. I'd be quite happy to try a later car like this one - in fact, let me know when you get bored of this and want to move it on. I love the condition of this one, and I'm looking forward to some gratuitous interior shots.

Edit to add: I wonder why these things are still so undervalued, considering how much P5s have gone up in the last few years. I guess the very long production run means there is plenty of choice at any one time, unlike P5s, but these still seem very cheap to me.

[Rust Collector]

12 hours ago, captain_70s said:

Does GDPR meant that technically no car leaving a dealer should contain anything featuring prior owner's details?

Not to go off on a tangent too much, but at the main dealer I was at we just had those garbled stamp things that are used to redact any customer information. The names and addresses of previous owners would just be covered on any previous service invoices etc. so you still had the details of what work was done but you couldn't see who the owner was.

Cars I've bought from auction lately have had the V5 given this treatment too.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Lovely. Always fancied a P4, and obviously the one to have is a pre-1955 car for the looks, but I've been keeping an eye out for ages and they just don't seem to come up. I'd be quite happy to try a later car like this one - in fact, let me know when you get bored of this and want to move it on. I love the condition of this one, and I'm looking forward to some gratuitous interior shots.

 

I do much prefer the "flat fronted" earlier P4s too. P4s always do come up occasionally if you search regularly on Facebook marketplace and eBay saved searches. P4 drivers guild often put them up there too but tend to be over priced. 

While I would have preferred an earlier car, this was around 2 bags fully delivered. It's hard to get any car for that price nowadays, let alone a running and driving classic that (seems) fundamentally sound with decent interior and reasonable bodywork for that! It's also got the bigger more powerful engine that allows it to move more than quick enough to not be a moving roadblock.

There are a few interior shots in the video above if you have enough patience to listen me drivling on.

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Edit to add: I wonder why these things are still so undervalued, considering how much P5s have gone up in the last few years. I guess the very long production run means there is plenty of choice at any one time, unlike P5s, but these still seem very cheap to me.

I guess the big brash P5 especially the P5b with the V8 wins out against the olde staid English look. I suppose given a choice I'd go for the P5 and others with that mindset too pushes the values up. Plus many journeyman 40/50s cars (even these that cater to the professional) don't seem to risen in value in the last decade where things went bonkers. This is 1963 year but of course essentially a 50s car.

I guess that generation is dying off and prices have remained relatively static from demand. Those that would have been between 20 to 30 (up and coming life defining years for many) in 1950 to 1960 would now be 103 to 83 (30 in 1950 to 20 in 1960). Even ten years ago before the mental decade price rises they're going to be 93 to 73 - a time when they've either bought an old car or considering reducing the amount of driving they would be undertaking in that decade.

Where as the P5 on the same demographic metric are 95 to 70 now and 85 to 60 back a decade ago. Much wider group of people and many of which retiring and wanting a car from a defining part of their youth. A P4 for them would have been at the end of its lifecycle and the P5 the fresh new vehicle. Likewise for many other 60/70s cars.

Also I believe less P5 were made. Many went around the oval. Then rusted out quicker becoming unroadworthy quicker than a P4 due to not having a separate chassis.

That's my armchair analysis anyway!

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Edit to add: I wonder why these things are still so undervalued,

They aren't really a family classic, in that the steering is heavy, and very heavy if not fitted with cross-ply tyres, so women don't really like driving them. Power steering conversion can be done, though. Also I love the styling, but they do have a staid image.  

[RoadworkUK]

Goodness me, that sounds terrific. Top buyage.

[DSdriver]

12 hours ago, SiC said:

Yeah she's fooked.

 

Glad you posted that pic, I was all set to buy shares in Duraglit.

[bobdisk]

Does it have the freewheel, or overdrive?

[Joey spud]

You need to track this guy down and swap front bumpers. 

Back in the 80's my excentric first boss bought a green four cylinder P4 (TJG68, I can remember a number plate but not my wife's birthday) that had been sitting gathering moss in a nearby front garden for a couple of years.We towed it back to the workshop and after freeing off the stuck clutch and repairing the brakes it was a runner although I don't think it was quite up to passing an MOT as it was always run on trade plates.

My boss had recently sold the garage and was relocating his business from north Kent to North Wales (Nebo ?) and had been towing his collection of old cars there on a heavy single axle homemade trailer behind a York diesel powered Transit campervan and thought the P4 would be a more comfortable tow car and it was ok apart from it had an impressive thirst for oil and a blue haze followed it everywhere it went and was probably why it was taken off the road in the first place.

I must admit I'd love a scruffy one of these but have way too much on my plate with Boris the Minor and the Brat plus two house moves and a sudden onset of knackered joints that means I'm unable be to commit to more oldie's but it costs nothing to look and dream.

And how cool does this old girl look ?  You are going to think twice before cutting in front of her from your left turn only lane at the lights. 

And Rover P5 rostyes and (I think) Jenson Interceptor wheels fit them too.

[SiC]

18 minutes ago, bobdisk said:

Does it have the freewheel, or overdrive?

Overdrive. Only earlier 50s cars had freewheel. Another reason I'd like'd an older given a choice as freewheel is something fun to play with. 

 Overdrive was an option on many P4s but I believe it came standard on the 110. Apparently these are quite comfortable and happy at 70mph motorway speeds.

[lesapandre]

I have driven a few free-wheels. Worth trying a free-wheel equipped 50's car before you buy. You can switch it on and off with some difficulty - but with the freewheel on with these heavy drum-brake 50's cars  with no engine braking - even when the brakes are tip-top  - brake fade is easily induced - coming up to a junction down hill to stationary traffic etc can be heart-stopping. 

Fine making progress on 50's roads but now...

 

[Rocket88]

2 hours ago, Joey spud said:

You need to track this guy down and swap front bumpers. 

Back in the 80's my excentric first boss bought a green four cylinder P4 (TJG68, I can remember a number plate but not my wife's birthday) that had been sitting gathering moss in a nearby front garden for a couple of years.We towed it back to the workshop and after freeing off the stuck clutch and repairing the brakes it was a runner although I don't think it was quite up to passing an MOT as it was always run on trade plates.

My boss had recently sold the garage and was relocating his business from north Kent to North Wales (Nebo ?) and had been towing his collection of old cars there on a heavy single axle homemade trailer behind a York diesel powered Transit campervan and thought the P4 would be a more comfortable tow car and it was ok apart from it had an impressive thirst for oil and a blue haze followed it everywhere it went and was probably why it was taken off the road in the first place.

I must admit I'd love a scruffy one of these but have way too much on my plate with Boris the Minor and the Brat plus two house moves and a sudden onset of knackered joints that means I'm unable be to commit to more oldie's but it costs nothing to look and dream.

And how cool does this old girl look you are going to think twice before cutting in front of her from your left turn only lane at the lights. 

And Rover P5 rostyes and (I think) Jenson Interceptor wheels fit them too.

They do….

[SiC]

I went for a run up and down the road yesterday to give it a try out. One of the things I did was stomp hard on the brake pedal. I always do this on a new classic car I buy to test out the brakes.

Its a harsh test that shows several things and all of which I want to find out before I have to do it in an emergency. Firstly are the brakes strong enough to lock the wheels. Secondly is the hydraulic system strong enough to withstand the hard force applied. Thirdly do they release back off without sticking.

Yesterday it did all those things and I ticked off the brakes as perfectly serviceable. Remember the previous owner drove this from Windsor on the motorway and through Central London.
One of the things I did notice was a big plume of white smoke. This wasn't water and smelt distinctively hydrocarbon. I put this down to overfuelling as it was sat idling a while and I think it's running a bit rich.

Today I started up on the drive and went to manoeuvre it. I noticed the pedal was pretty soft and it went to the floor. Hmm.
Checked the brake fluid reservoir...


That's not good!

I filled up the reservoir and gave the pedal a few pumps to try to get some pressure back into the system. In doing so I had some pretty impressive white smoke come out the back!


Revs increase too. This all points to the brake servo going to need a rebuild.
Annoying but that's life with an old car. The previous owner did report some white smoke but the consensus of the P4 Drivers Guild FB page was that it probably was condensation build up in the exhaust. I probably finished it off by stomping on that pedal 🫣

But I'd rather this happen than driving at the weekend down a steep hill on the way to the classic meet I intended to go in this. Doesn't look likely I'll be going to that in this car this weekend. Oh well, I'll have to drag out the BGT and hope that behaves.

Looking in the box of bits of spares, there is another servo.



Incidentally also a singular overrider


Then this weird cylindrical object. Cylinder liner? I also found some new piston rings and an old rocker shaft too.


Looks like it's had engine work in its past. No bad thing.

Now I need to decide what route to go down with the servo. Rebuilt units are on a 2 week lead time from the usual P4 suppliers. There is a rebuild kit too.
Or there is a kit to convert the car to a modern Lockheed servo.

I don't want to wait 2 weeks really for a rebuild. P4 Drivers Guild Facebook group says convert. I'm thinking the rebuild kit on that spare servo...
I'll possibly change the master while I'm doing this work too.

[Blunderguts]

Good project. VB is Croydon for those wondering. Sadly there are no surviving records due to a combined effort from the Luftwaffe and DVLA.

The car only needs minor things doing to it one of which is ditch the pressed plate on the front a put one on the matches the rear! 

[SiC]

Just now, Blunderguts said:

Good project. VB is Croydon for those wondering. Sadly there are no surviving records due to a combined effort from the Luftwaffe and DVLA.

The car only needs minor things doing to it one of which is ditch the pressed plate on the front a put one on the matches the rear! 

Front plate actually isn't as modern as it looks up close. 

Looks like it's almost a cast plate to me.

[Blunderguts]

Have a close look around the plate. If it's period there should be a maker's mark somewhere. Homo Ltd (I am not joking, this was a real company) were one maker there was around back them. I seriously doubt that it is cast, these are normally pre-war and not in that font as far as I know.

[Surface Rust]

You could bypass the servo and see what it feels like as a temporary measure. As they have a remote servo there is a junction block below it on the chassis where the servo assistance is introduced and so it can be bypassed. 

I discovered this the unfortunate way, when I bought my P4 it had a pull to the left under braking. I didn't think too much of it as I knew the tracking was out, and it passed a couple of MoTs like this. Anyway one year it failed on imbalance (same garage) and after lengthy investigation we discovered the previous owner has connected up the nearside front with servo assistance, and the offside front without, at that junction block. Hilarious*.

[LightBulbFun]

48 minutes ago, SiC said:

Front plate actually isn't as modern as it looks up close. 

Looks like it's almost a cast plate to me.

Oooh thats a pressed tucker plate, or well to be exact, the exact style what you find on early AC Model 70's and older  so most certainly a nice Period late 1960s-1970's replacement  

sadly despite a lot of research we have not been able to nail down exactly who/what these are, as the plates themselves dont seem to have any makers name stamping or such, research by Stuart so far points to them being a tucker number plates, but again nothing have been concretely proved yet (like a nice period advert showing the name and style in one, or name stamped in the plate surround to prove things)

are you able to measure the hight of the digits? would be interesting to know for nerdy number plate research reasons  

[Joey spud]

1 hour ago, Rocket88 said:

They do….

Excellent. I think that was the one that had a Sprinter diesel engine badly fitted to it.

Which brings up the thorny subject of folk that bung LR 200tdi engines into the poor things.

[lesapandre]

14 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

Excellent. I think that was the one that had a Sprinter diesel engine badly fitted to it.

Which brings up the thorny subject of folk that fit 200tdi engines into the poor things.

For years the poor old P4 was in the classic car doldrums - values pretty flat and an ageing ownership demographic.

The cars are fantasticly well made but finally time is catching up with them and they need more love (and £). Increasing interest is good.  Modifications are not to everybody's taste but it is better to keep these cars in some current ownership, however they are used, than them fading into rusty oblivion.

[SiC]

27 minutes ago, Surface Rust said:

You could bypass the servo and see what it feels like as a temporary measure. As they have a remote servo there is a junction block below it on the chassis where the servo assistance is introduced and so it can be bypassed. 

Yeah good point. Only thing is presumably it'll just leak into the servo through a diaphragm split still?