Peak Car.

[Rocket88]

1 hour ago, Shite Ron said:

I am not sure about the tongue in cheek part, this is a more valid suggestion than most of the others on here. I thought this was a site for car enthusiasts? The sixties was probably the peak for styling but I was not around to appreciate and enjoy it. I cannot believe the namby pamby comments about N cap and mega fuel economy, I thought I must be on mumsnet or some such nonsense The below is what I imagine you mean and looked even better up close. I have borrowed the picture from @Soundwaveas he is a much better photographer than me.

 

Mr Shite has hit the nail squarely on the head….

[FakeConcern]

5 hours ago, Shite Ron said:

I am not sure about the tongue in cheek part, this is a more valid suggestion than most of the others on here. I thought this was a site for car enthusiasts? The sixties was probably the peak for styling but I was not around to appreciate and enjoy it. I cannot believe the namby pamby comments about N cap and mega fuel economy, I thought I must be on mumsnet or some such nonsense The below is what I imagine you mean and looked even better up close. I have borrowed the picture from @Soundwaveas he is a much better photographer than me.

 

I was around in the 60s and always thought they looked hideous and bloated up close in real life when compared to my lovely Corgi toys one...

[FakeConcern]

There have been many suggestions of various versions of the Mondeo being Peak Car and I’ve just watched this...

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNvhWXDyi5s

I’d be pretty happy with one...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185679114110?hash=item2b3b566f7e:g:6~sAAOSwHaFjXFRF&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsMBdrMc3baqDdE36OHsjbuvbS5i4kjhbGXr3q2tW8U33o20PDx19weSJlVr57opviT6%2BQcvm6OswhBOwc4ehkUmgpym2obYmMG891srEhyk85TPEkToZ4XVTwbVkSw9QXQzTHbISsrl7BWLZIhUCv9XIfkVZrYutyKv0R2OrXj8f2WstqkFznpd5ZHh%2BgX7WI6lmao2Ri9U4Pe3KJspTM4%2BGcsEdeDB2AaOL1B4q0Lwr|tkp%3ABk9SR-boysaaYQ

[Dobloseven]

With this peak car business, have we got a situation like when they used to issue a "50 best rock anthems ever" compilation album? Then next Christmas they did another one with 50 even better ones!I'm going to pitch in with the BMW E36 3 Series. Set the scene for future models, with it's wheels forward, engine back, RWD layout. Huge choice of body styles and engines, including BMs first diesels, which got used by others as well.Plus of course the M3 versions. Still some on the road, there's a N reg coupe just round the corner from us. Oldest ones over 30 now,youngest over 20. Lots of independent specialists. Still look smart today, in my eyes anyway. 

[TheXUDfiles]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:07 PM, Three Speed said:

Mk 1 Focus was a great car.

But for me, peak car was this:

which is why I have one. Roomy, steers well, handles well and stops well. Comes in several sizes and a roadster was available until 1939. Goes anywhere and looks great. They came out in 1934 but the peak is 1951 (like mine) if French or 1948 if English because they were the last year before the wipers moved to the bottom of the screen. 
Everything made since has variations on the same theme but with less easy access to the oily bits.

This was the foundation on which the modern was founded, I think. 

More thought went into driver convenience  and comfort than had been the norm, at least at this price point. You can fit in them, and they still feel undemanding to drive today. 

This, and Datsuns in the 70s laid the way for cars to not be rubbish. 

[sierraman]

38 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

With this peak car business, have we got a situation like when they used to issue a "50 best rock anthems ever" compilation album? Then next Christmas they did another one with 50 even better ones!I'm going to pitch in with the BMW E36 3 Series. Set the scene for future models, with it's wheels forward, engine back, RWD layout. Huge choice of body styles and engines, including BMs first diesels, which got used by others as well.Plus of course the M3 versions. Still some on the road, there's a N reg coupe just round the corner from us. Oldest ones over 30 now,youngest over 20. Lots of independent specialists. Still look smart today, in my eyes anyway. 

It was also priced out of scope for people stacking shelves in Asda. So if you had one it genuinely was a status symbol unlike the crap they hawk these days.

[Barry Cade]

16 minutes ago, sierraman said:

It was also priced out of scope for people stacking shelves in Asda. So if you had one it genuinely was a status symbol unlike the crap they hawk these days.

Until the stacking shelves became a front for their real business, then every dodgy council sinkhole was full of them, with fake buckled "M" sport wheels, an Ebay bodykit fitted with woodscrews and a set of 80 quid coilovers.  Usually a Staffy in the back seat and a skinny toothless "lady" in the front with stained joggers.

[808 Estate]

1988

 

Or 1998 if you need something a bit more practical.

 

[sierraman]

10 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

Until the stacking shelves became a front for their real business, then every dodgy council sinkhole was full of them, with fake buckled "M" sport wheels, an Ebay bodykit fitted with woodscrews and a set of 80 quid coilovers.  Usually a Staffy in the back seat and a skinny toothless "lady" in the front with stained joggers.

And a pair of leggings where the front has bagged out. 

[Dobloseven]

15 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

Until the stacking shelves became a front for their real business, then every dodgy council sinkhole was full of them, with fake buckled "M" sport wheels, an Ebay bodykit fitted with woodscrews and a set of 80 quid coilovers.  Usually a Staffy in the back seat and a skinny toothless "lady" in the front with stained joggers.

But we're talking about the cars, not the drivers. Is the RR Silver Shadow a bad car because certain dubious characters have owned them? Is the Ford Capri a bad car because Peter Sutcliffe owned one? Cars don't choose their owners or the way they're treated or the modifications thrust upon them. Just been up to the chip shop and walked past the N reg 3 series. I was wrong in that it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but it's totally unmessed with and still looks a smart motor. 

[Barry Cade]

34 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

But we're talking about the cars, not the drivers. Is the RR Silver Shadow a bad car because certain dubious characters have owned them? Is the Ford Capri a bad car because Peter Sutcliffe owned one? Cars don't choose their owners or the way they're treated or the modifications thrust upon them. Just been up to the chip shop and walked past the N reg 3 series. I was wrong in that it's a saloon rather than a coupe, but it's totally unmessed with and still looks a smart motor. 

True, but it does dilute the memory of them, and lessens the pool of nice examples as classic cars when they go through the banger phase. Also shit sticks. 

 

 

[Gazebo]

I'm going in with the Mk 1 Mondeo enthusiasts. 

Why is it peak car?

• Big enough to get everyone (and everything) in, but small enough to park
• Hatchback, rear wiper
• Fast enough to keep up in modern traffic
• Fun to drive
• Comfortable enough (I drove one for 1000's of miles in the 90's)
• Aircon 
• Reasonable fuel economy
• Safe
• Not too complicated to fix (though now lots of unobtainium I hear)

Everything since is gilding the lily.

I now drive a 67 plate Focus which shares many of the same attributes and a very similar wheelbase.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

4 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

With this peak car business, have we got a situation like when they used to issue a "50 best rock anthems ever" compilation album? Then next Christmas they did another one with 50 even better ones!I'm going to pitch in with the BMW E36 3 Series. Set the scene for future models, with it's wheels forward, engine back, RWD layout. Huge choice of body styles and engines, including BMs first diesels, which got used by others as well.Plus of course the M3 versions. Still some on the road, there's a N reg coupe just round the corner from us. Oldest ones over 30 now,youngest over 20. Lots of independent specialists. Still look smart today, in my eyes anyway. 

Erm, 

I might be biased but the e30 ticks all the boxes you mention, ( including actually being the first diesel 3 ) plus the first 4x4 BMW and it’s underpinnings being used in the Z1,Z3 and even the e36 Compact. Sorry that’s the only pic I can find of the one on my drive.

[Dobloseven]

33 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

Erm, 

I might be biased but the e30 ticks all the boxes you mention, ( including actually being the first diesel 3 ) plus the first 4x4 BMW and it’s underpinnings being used in the Z1,Z3 and even the e36 Compact. Sorry that’s the only pic I can find of the one on my drive.

Would agree, apart from the wheels forward, engine back layout,which was quite a thing when it was launched,most RWD cars having a significant front overhang.IIRC, the Compact used the simpler E30 rear suspension to reduce costs and improve luggage space in a shorter vehicle. Rather in the way the Rover 200/25 used the Maestro rear suspension instead of the 400/45 type. Personally, I prefer the more rounded styling of the E46, but possibly a bit biased as I have an interest in one that I passed to my son. But like the rock anthems, where do we stop? Mind, the classic car mags will tell us to buy now, they'll never be this cheap again! 

[junkyarddog]

Peak car surely is the Peugeot 205!

From the cooking 1ltr up to the stonking 1,9 GTi.

Comfy,decent handing and suspension,reliable,not too rot prone,cheap parts and easy to work on.

Pretty little things too.

 

[Metal Guru]

1 hour ago, junkyarddog said:

Peak car surely is the Peugeot 205!

From the cooking 1ltr up to the stonking 1,9 GTi.

Comfy,decent handing and suspension,reliable,not too rot prone,cheap parts and easy to work on.

Pretty little things too.

 

I went to buy a GTi  in the mid 80s but found it a bit cramped ( I’m 6’2). Ironically my son got a 107 many years later and I found that very comfortable to drive.

[junkyarddog]

18 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

I went to buy a GTi  in the mid 80s but found it a bit cramped ( I’m 6’2). Ironically my son got a 107 many years later and I found that very comfortable to drive.

I'm a smidge over 6ft and fit in my one fine.

[TheXUDfiles]

11 hours ago, Gazebo said:

I'm going in with the Mk 1 Mondeo enthusiasts. 

Why is it peak car?

• Big enough to get everyone (and everything) in, but small enough to park
• Hatchback, rear wiper
• Fast enough to keep up in modern traffic
• Fun to drive
• Comfortable enough (I drove one for 1000's of miles in the 90's)
• Aircon 
• Reasonable fuel economy
• Safe
• Not too complicated to fix (though now lots of unobtainium I hear)

Everything since is gilding the lily.

I now drive a 67 plate Focus which shares many of the same attributes and a very similar wheelbase.

You're not wrong. They do everything you could reasonably expect from a car, and don't really do anything badly. They're nice to drive and easy on the eye (I think). The 90s were about Ford's pinnacle, I reckon. 

[Dyslexic Viking]

I'm starting to realize that Ford is a religion in the UK to say that the Mondeo and Focus are the best cars ever is ridiculous considering how many amazing cars there are. These 2 are mostly just boring means of transport and here they had and have among the shortest lifespans of any car.

I would say that the Volvo 240, 740 and 940 and Mercedes in W123 variants and W124 variants are peak cars. I still see them in daily use, just in my immediate area there are about 5 W123 and S123 in daily use all year round, almost 40 years after they went out of production. What these Volvo and Mercedes have in common is that they do most things well, they are reliable, well-built and long-lasting and are not a boring box on wheels. There is a reason the owners keep them.

[Jazoli]

22 minutes ago, TheXUDfiles said:

You're not wrong. They do everything you could reasonably expect from a car, and don't really do anything badly. They're nice to drive and easy on the eye (I think). The 90s were about Ford's pinnacle, I reckon. 

Early 90's ford's were rubbish, it was only the introduction of the focus and the mondeo that saved them from total mediocrity, for me peak car was the E39 5 series BMW in 6 cylinder petrol flavour, I had a 528 and a 540 and they are the best cars I've ever owned/driven, if I could buy 3 year old one again today I would without hesitation.

[Shite Ron]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

'm starting to realize that Ford is a religion in the UK to say that the Mondeo and Focus are the best cars ever is ridiculous considering how many amazing cars there are. These 2 are mostly just boring means of transport and here they had and have among the shortest lifespans of any car.

I am a huge Ford enthusiast, their range throughout the sixties and seventies were head and shoulders above their competitors and had a huge influence on my obsession with cars during my childhood and ever since. Their cars were well designed, reliable, comfortable, stylish and affordable. ( note:were) If only they had the build quality and rustproofing of Volvo 740’s they would be indestructible but would also have been more expensive. Others may not share my opinion but at least I know I am right 😀. It all went wrong in my opinion when they had Mr. Blobby designing the Sierra and Granada. I have owned a mk1, 3 and 4 Mondeo, all very capable and good value for money but all lacking any character or driving pleasure which earlier Ford’s had bucket loads of. The Mk1 Mondeo was the best of the Mondeo’s in my opinion, I had a poverty spec. 1.8 LX and was amazed how well it drove for a front wheel drive, it really was leagues ahead of other front wheel drive cars at the time to drive and seemed a lot better than the Mondeo’s that followed (it also had the most comfortable seats) It was not however an easy car to maintain and I would happily of swapped it for a mk3 Cavalier. Vauxhall took over Ford’s lead during the mid eighties to nineties with the Carlton like @sutty2006 being far better than Ford’s offerings at the time. It is clear many like the Focus, I have driven several, all when nearly new and found them extremely dull. I am aware my opinion may differ from others but that is why I am here and not on pissed on heads.

RWD Volvo’s and Mercedes are great bargains for us now in the used market but would not feature on most company car lists and the purchase price new would be hard to justify for most.They were cars for the super rich, not riff raff like me.

[Metal Guru]

9 hours ago, junkyarddog said:

I'm a smidge over 6ft and fit in my one fine.

I was in two minds TBH. My brother had just got a Renault 5 Gordini and my Ford Orion seemed very tame compared to it. 
However , I then decided , buying my first house was a priority over a new car , so the Orion stayed for another 5 years. I then met my wife who introduced me to the joys of diesel cars.

[sutty2006]

The thing with threads like this, is we all have a different opinion based on the experiences we’ve had with cars over the years. I had a mk2 diesel mondeo, it was good apart from the engine which was agricultural at best but I wouldn’t class it as my “peak” car. The mk3 I loved because it was easy to fix, comfortable to drive and the ST looked brilliant back in the day. Had Ford carried the ST into the mk4 I may have considered one but never bothered, I needed a Landrover after the ST. @Shite Ron how could I forget the Carlton? The last run of Carltons were great. Another comfy and well designed car. I found the mk3 Carlton the last of the Vauxhalls that didn’t wreck my back to drive. I’ve driven omegas, vectras, astras all from the late nineties early two thousands and they were all back breakingly uncomfortable. So for dailys, the mondeo won it for me. I only buy cars now that I know won’t give me back pain after 3 minutes on the captains seat. But weirdly, fords were cheaper to insure than Vauxhalls. Never understood that one. 

[808 Estate]

On 12/2/2022 at 10:41 AM, Rocket88 said:

Slightly tongue in cheek…. But one of these…. Ruinous fuel consumption, rot like buggery, but they have a certain villainous charm….Drive a scruffy one, and no one will EVER cut you up again…..

Back in the late 80s, a good friend of mine had one of these. It was hand painted matt black, had bumpers made from scaffold tubes and had a "HEAVY METAL" sticker in the back window. It could easily get 8 of us to the pub for a night out.

[2flags]

For me it's the Rover 75. I have had rovers, with a six-year gap in the late 80's-early 90's since 1984. I need a car that is spacious, comfortable, stylish and just make you feel that little bit special. I have a 75 CDTI Tourer. I also have a 3.0 Jaguar X Type. The Rover is more comfortable, but the Jag is so much quicker. It also makes you feel special when you are sitting behind the wheel. I have had a P5, P6, 800, 2 400's and a 75 2.5 V6. They are all great cars and just feel that little bit nicer than the competition. 

[sierraman]

I liked the Rover 75 but they were kidding only themselves thinking it would sell to anyone but octogenarians. The dreadful sepia tainted dials and the ‘wood’ was everything people didn’t want. It should have been exactly like the MG ZT from the get go.

[EyesWeldedShut]

9 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

 The last run of Carltons were great. Another comfy and well designed car. I found the mk3 Carlton the last of the Vauxhalls that didn’t wreck my back to drive......

I had a late(ish) 2.0 litre auto Omega and loved it until I got a 'lift' in a 2.5 (V6??) Omega with all the trimmings - I did like that. Carlton was limited to a couple of romps in 2 litre cars but I did get to play in a 3.0 litre Senator auto back in 1990/91 that was (for the time) a total beast.
My early 20's lust (automotively) was a Monza/Royale - big, fluffy, velour seats  

My personal Peak Car(s)?
Semi - main stream: my 2010 Subaru Outback 2.5 n/a (sadly missed) - lovely car, easy to work on (other than changing spark plugs) and very, very well engineered
Out there some place: my Ssangyong (oh yes I kid you not) Musso, 1996 vintage, 3.2 litre MB petrol(LPG)/MB autobox. The exterior 'look' was dated before it left the factory and the interior was, well, kind of 1980s BL lookalike. That car pulled like a train and drank fuel like a Jumbo Jet but it was 'lush' to drive. Unavailability of front suspension parts killed that in favour of the Subaru.
Rose tinted cars: I had an early Mondeo Diesel - it was 'better' than my previous 1.6GL petrol Mondeo Estate,  but - by today's standards though - I'd skip both - so not so sure about the gush on the thread
                                       1988 Renault 5 1.7 GTX (poverty spec'd Giordini really) torque steered in the wet like it had a flat tyre and would never hot start if you stalled it - that was replaced by a C15 Van  (Middle age creeping in)
Still wanted:         Rover 75 (on a day I feel rich) - being old & poor(ish) I'd grudge the car tax on something I use once a fortnight on average but hey, my near neighbour has a XK8 that comes out once or twice a year - who knows? Other near neighbour has just got in a '54 75 Saloon.

My personal sweet spot would be a 1995 - 2005 vintage big, voluptuous, lush 'thing' but (as stated above) they're kind of hard to justify financially against the £20 a year car tax on the Bini?

                         

[sutty2006]

12 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

I had a late(ish) 2.0 litre auto Omega and loved it until I got a 'lift' in a 2.5 (V6??) Omega with all the trimmings - I did like that. Carlton was limited to a couple of romps in 2 litre cars but I did get to play in a 3.0 litre Senator auto back in 1990/91 that was (for the time) a total beast.
My early 20's lust (automotively) was a Monza/Royale - big, fluffy, velour seats  

 

                         

I had a late senator on the K. Full 3.0 24v auto. What an epic machine and put a lot of folks cars to shame on the open road, the digi dash was cool and the magnetic hardening rear shockers still worked! However after 10 mins of driving, my lower back would turn into mush and be incredibly hurty. Much disappoint.  I did take a K plate 2.0 auto Carlton GL to the artic circle (Bodo, Norway) on a banger rally in 2009. It was brilliant. Never missed a beat, and the 2.0 8v engine was happy with 3 adults and just over a weeks worth of luggage to go at. Brilliant cars. 

[juular]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:11 AM, Dyslexic Viking said:

I'm starting to realize that Ford is a religion in the UK to say that the Mondeo and Focus are the best cars ever is ridiculous considering how many amazing cars there are. These 2 are mostly just boring means of transport and here they had and have among the shortest lifespans of any car.

I would say that the Volvo 240, 740 and 940 and Mercedes in W123 variants and W124 variants are peak cars. I still see them in daily use, just in my immediate area there are about 5 W123 and S123 in daily use all year round, almost 40 years after they went out of production. What these Volvo and Mercedes have in common is that they do most things well, they are reliable, well-built and long-lasting and are not a boring box on wheels. There is a reason the owners keep them.

Agree with everything you said. I don't really get Fords at all, the only words that come to mind when I see any blue oval is "rust" and "boredom".

The only thing holding RWD Volvos back from being peak car in my view is the fuel economy. I mean they're not awful, and I can nudge 36mpg on a long run in my 240. For such a hefty lump of pig iron running on a fairly old fashioned redblock lump it's quite remarkable. However for it to be peak car for me, it needs to be good enough on fuel that you simply forget about mpg.

I love my 205 diesel for this reason. I can totally understand it being posted above as being peak car. In fact if your requirements were that you needed a cheap runabout that you could use, abuse and treat as a tool to get from A-B while still being hilarious fun when pushed, the 205 is all the car almost anyone needs.

But the 205 loses a lot of points for basically being a deathtrap, and frankly I do sometimes worry while driving on the motorway that there's a layer of tinfoil between me and being jam.

Peak car for me is somewhere between the 240 and 205. Simple, reliable, has some creature comforts, is easy to repair, is economical but yet still interesting enough to actually enjoy using.

I'm going to nominate the 850 TDI. AC, cruise, electric windows and mirrors, heated seats, absolutely boatloads of torque, mega comfortable, and it will run on veg if you wanted/the world ended. The only things it has going against it are the massive turning circle and the slightly odd electro-mechanical injection setup.  Apart from that, it's all the car anyone could possibly want.

[Dyslexic Viking]

2 hours ago, juular said:

I'm going to nominate the 850 TDI. AC, cruise, electric windows and mirrors, heated seats, absolutely boatloads of torque, mega comfortable, and it will run on veg if you wanted/the world ended. The only things it has going against it are the massive turning circle and the slightly odd electro-mechanical injection setup.  Apart from that, it's all the car anyone could possibly want.

I had a 97 V70 2.4 10v manual and it was not a car I liked much. It had a much higher fuel consumption than my 740, it was a nightmare to work on some things like the PCV system which took me 6 hours to change I also felt that it was unnecessarily complicated and it lacked character or whatever you want to call it. There is a strong opinion among many here that the last genuine Volvo was the 940 and I agree.

And the later versions of the red block with electronic injection like the B230F which was in my 740 together with 5 speed manual did not have so bad fuel consumption fully loaded with ski box on the roof on a long trip I got down to 0.68 liters per 10 km or 41.54 mpg.