The grumpy thread

[Dyslexic Viking]

On 13/10/2022 at 21:25, Datsuncog said:

Brand new three months ago, as is the entire boiler and burner.

Seems to be pumping fine.

Nope, no TRVs fitted at all - and everything was working fine on Tuesday evening, nice and toasty.

We noticed it seemed a bit chilly when we came home late-ish last night, but it was quite cold out and since we were going to bed shortly, it seemed a bit pointless to boost the heating.

Only when it seemed very cold when I got up this morning did I realise the radiators were only mildly tepid, not actually hot.

Having looked over everything it seems that an airlock's the most likely culprit - I'm currently going through a rigmarole of turning the burner and pump on and off every ten seconds to try to shock the air out of the system, on the plumber's advice via text, and there's been a few almighty gurgles so far, though it still cuts out after three or four minutes.

Fun night ahead, I think - cheers for the suggestions, though!

Can I ask out of curiosity as we don't have such here. Is this for heating the house? Gas burning that heat water that in turn heats the house?

[loserone]

28 second kerosene but otherwise, yes.  Hot water loops to heat the radiators and a coil through the water tank for the hot tap too.

[artdjones]

13 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

It was the first thing I'd thought of too, as the same thing happened in the old house last year - and so I went out and jammed my head into the boiler box, to make sure that there was power getting to the pump and it was vibrating. I could also feel vibrations going up the hot water pipe into the house. Plus, y'know, it was new.

I'd had the water shut off a few days earlier to plumb in a new sink, so it didn't seem unlikely that air had got into the system.

Today was the first day the plumber could come and look at it.

I don't think there was very much more I could do, and I wasn't going to start pulling it apart.

I hope I have better fortune. I have to order a new boiler this week. My wife noticed a leak on the path outside the boiler housing, so I took the side off, and found it pretty damp inside, including the lagging. I thought I'd check the pump unions, as that area was wettest. First one, perfectly tight, the second one,as soon as pressure was put on the nut the stub on the boiler ripped out, as it was totally corroded through. Also, the kettle failed 20 minutes later.😔

[artdjones]

21 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Can I ask out of curiosity as we don't have such here. Is this for heating the house? Gas burning that heat water that in turn heats the house?

It's a Firebird oil boiler, made in Ballymakeera, County Cork, about 45 minutes away from me.

[Dyslexic Viking]

1 hour ago, artdjones said:

It's a Firebird oil boiler, made in Ballymakeera, County Cork, about 45 minutes away from me.

This seems like an unnecessarily complicated way of heating the house, gas and oil, and expensive when things break. Here, electric heaters and wood burning are the most common.

[High Jetter]

They're quite common in Ireland, especially in rura areas where there's no mains gas. Mrs J's families house over there has one.

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

This seems like an unnecessarily complicated way of heating the house, and expensive when things break. Here, electric heaters and wood burning are the most common.

When wood is scarce and expensive, and the electricity supply cannot be depended upon, having your own source of mass fuel is prudent.

That's why these are common there

[Dyslexic Viking]

3 minutes ago, PhilA said:

When wood is scarce and expensive, and the electricity supply cannot be depended upon, having your own source of mass fuel is prudent.

That's why these are common there

Yes, I have realized that. So we are lucky in Norway.

[PhilA]

Just now, Dyslexic Viking said:

Yes, I have realized that. So we are lucky in Norway.

Yup. Somehow there has been investment in infrastructure there.

[EyesWeldedShut]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

This seems like an unnecessarily complicated way of heating the house, gas and oil, and expensive when things break. Here, electric heaters and wood burning are the most common.

We have a very similar setup here in rural West Wales - oil burner runs a wet central heating system.  Kind of the norm around here. Not ultra efficient but it is what it is.  Came with the house ten years ago. The house is ancient with solid stone walls and no realistic (economic) possibility of insulating them or the stone floors. Centrally heating it is £££££ - even back when it was 40p a litre.
The integrated oil/hot water system I have binned in favour of electric 'on demand' water heaters. We have a borehole water supply so low pressure = low flow but fairly hot at the tap.
Once we have finished the current tank of oil we're switching to all electric plus the 8kW log burner currently roasting my butt off - I guess that's going to be the way of things in the future. 

That and wear a jumper.
 

[anonymous user]

I remember my father changing our coal/wood fired Rayburn to oil in the 1970s, when oil was "cheap". My mother was happy as it was less work. Oil got more expensive and when my sister inherited the house she never had the central heating burner on. Just the one for cooking and hot water, it still drank oil. About 15 years ago she had a new firebird condensing boiler put in, it was a revelation using a fraction of the oil.

She moved a few years ago and the new bungalow is still oil (no gas in the area), but it is still well insulated that it doesn't need much heating and has electric solar panels that offset her consumption in summer.

 

[EyesWeldedShut]

8 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Yes, I have realized that. So we are lucky in Norway.

Here too - lucky: lived here since 2011 and have only had one electricity power cut worth worrying about - even in the worst snow/wind it seems to stay on - kudos to the guys at Western Power (now National Grid).  Of course once the mains power goes then the oil fired central heating boiler does not want to know - I guess I could take the standby generator off the borehole if it was really freezing but we need that to keep flowing for watering the animals.

Sometimes I feel a bit daft with the candles/matches always at the ready but as  a kid growing up in West Scotland we'd get a power cut every time there was anything over Gale Force Six (or so it seemed).

[PhilA]

Yeah, since the area here was redesigned in terms of local distribution the power has been more reliable.

After a bad storm the electricity would be out for weeks. For Gustav we had no electricity for 4 weeks, most recently with Ida it was off for nearly 2 weeks.

It's a luxury to have, and far from trusted. 

 

Phil

[Dyslexic Viking]

18 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

Sometimes I feel a bit daft with the candles/matches always at the ready but as  a kid growing up in West Scotland we'd get a power cut every time there was anything over Gale Force Six (or so it seemed).

I don't think so, it's always good to be prepared for things. I'm not a crazy prepper but I have candles ready, alternative ways to cook food, a generator and food for a few months it's just common sense. 

[loserone]

None of these oil boilers will work without electricity though.

 

When we had the power cut after storm Arwen, many round here had no heating as they had become dependent on electric pumps.  I rapidly refitted two stoves and burned wood and ovoids.  We're pretty much only using the oil for hot water now.

[PhilA]

26 minutes ago, loserone said:

None of these oil boilers will work without electricity though.

 

When we had the power cut after storm Arwen, many round here had no heating as they had become dependent on electric pumps.  I rapidly refitted two stoves and burned wood and ovoids.  We're pretty much only using the oil for hot water now.

But they will run off a small, <1kW 2-stroke suitcase generator with overhead for a few lightbulbs and a TV.

You can't easily electrically heat a house with one of those, but you can run a solid/liquid fuel heater with it, and remain comfortable on a gallon of petrol every few hours. My little 900W 2-stroke sips fuel.

(Paint can for scale, can lift and carry it, full of fuel, with one hand)

[horriblemercedes]

Alternator failed on the way home from work. I hoped the battery would get me home but unfortunately not. AA man lent me a battery to get me home and now mine is charging downstairs

 

Luckily I'm not working tomorrow (very rare to be off in the week so it's good fortune) 

 

The only alternator I could get for tomorrow was Lucas-branded from Eurocarparts for £267. Wish me luck. Or share any bright ideas you may have! 

Still, I ummed and ahhed about renewing that membership and now I'm glad I did 

 

 

[Stanky]

3 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

Alternator failed on the way home from work. I hoped the battery would get me home but unfortunately not. AA man lent me a battery to get me home and now mine is charging downstairs

 

Luckily I'm not working tomorrow (very rare to be off in the week so it's good fortune) 

 

The only alternator I could get for tomorrow was Lucas-branded from Eurocarparts for £267. Wish me luck. Or share any bright ideas you may have! 

Still, I ummed and ahhed about renewing that membership and now I'm glad I did 

 

 

Can't get you running tomorrow but I can firmly recommend www.jasm.co.uk to refurb your old one? Turnaround is approx 2 days, though it'd need to be off the car and sent to them

[GrumpiusMaximus]

The utter madness of my parent's house as a kid was that despite living in the middle of a large town, there was no mains gas connected as at some point the pipe had actually been removed from the gas main that was in the main road about 20 feet in front of the house.  So when we first moved in there in 1993 and until 1998, all of the hot water and heat came from a coal-fired Aga.  It was a Victorian house with a coal cellar so we'd get the twice-yearly coal delivery into the coal chute at the side of the house and twice a day my Dad would get the coal scuttle, remove the ash, dump it in a metal bin outside the back door and then re-stock the coal, covering everything in a thin film of ash.

They got mains gas connected and a conventional system put in but those five years were definitely a bit of a throwback especially considering where we lived.  The Aga system would have been a marvel in 1898 when the house was built (I'd imagine the Aga was put in in the 60s) but 100 years later it was a bit of an anachronism...

[goosey]

Hit a pheasant last night on the way to the hotel, had a look this morning in the light and can only see a couple of very light scuffs on the wing which should polish out.

still feel bad for the pheasant 😢

[Remspoor]

15 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

The most annoying bit isn't just that we've been quite friz for several nights, but that these items don't seem to come with warranties anymore - so despite being new, the manufacturer won't stand over it.

That is not correct. There are laws to give you two years warranty.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

[horriblemercedes]

10 hours ago, Stanky said:

Can't get you running tomorrow but I can firmly recommend www.jasm.co.uk to refurb your old one? Turnaround is approx 2 days, though it'd need to be off the car and sent to them

Thanks! Although I'd prefer to use a service like that, getting it sorted today is priority. Partly because I need the car tomorrow and partly I don't know when my next day I would be able to fix it would be 

 

I took the dead alternator off this morning as soon as it was light in 15 minutes, so it's an easy job. As long as the replacement one lasts, I'll be happy enough 

[andy18s]

15 hours ago, artdjones said:

 Also, the kettle failed 20 minutes later.😔

Well at least the energy savings from buying the new kettle will pay for the boiler as well........

[andy18s]

15 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

This seems like an unnecessarily complicated way of heating the house, gas and oil, and expensive when things break. Here, electric heaters and wood burning are the most common.

The price of legally felled wood here has tripled in the last 12 months,to the point where electrical heating is being suggested as being the "cheapest" option this winter.

Most of Bulgarias wood is getting shipped and sold over the border in Turkey for even more profit...

[Dyslexic Viking]

39 minutes ago, andy18s said:

The price of legally felled wood here has tripled in the last 12 months,to the point where electrical heating is being suggested as being the "cheapest" option this winter.

Most of Bulgarias wood is getting shipped and sold over the border in Turkey for even more profit...

The timber price has gone up here too. My dad produces and sells firewood and the firewood prices for next year look like they will have to double with where the timber prices are now. We are a bit lucky as we take all the bad firewood that is difficult to sell ourselves and we have some forest so we have almost free firewood.

[PhilA]

The price here has gone up- processed wood about 10x what it was 5 years ago (plywood, chipboard etc) and the building timber (2×4's etc) is about 4x what it was back then too.

That's one of the reasons I've not even looked at putting my garage back up yet.

That and the wood they're selling us for building is little better than firewood. Some of the old seasoned beams I took out clang like a bell when they're dropped, the new stuff clatters like a deck chair when thrown down.

As a consumer there seems to be no recourse, and the ever climbing cost appears to be being egged on by the government. The price of everything is well out accelerating what my money's worth.

[myglaren]

19 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

 

So, after spending four nights trying to shock an airlock out of the system and emptying basin after basin of water out of the radiators, followed by much clambering around the attic to determine which pipes were getting hot and when, it turns out that the culprit was... the circulating pump.

Despite being a mere three months old, with maybe ten hours of use on it, it seems that it's failed somehow.

It took the plumber a while to diagnose the fault, as power's getting to it and it seemed to be turning okay - yet the water just isn't being moved around the system, so plainly something's awry.

The most annoying bit isn't just that we've been quite friz for several nights, but that these items don't seem to come with warranties anymore - so despite being new, the manufacturer won't stand over it.

Also that the reason we spent £2,600 on a new system in June was to make sure we wouldn't end up with a freezing house for a week because of a mechanical failure.

I guess it's better happening now that January, but still - grump.

Surely everything is subject to a warranty.

Can you claim on your house insurance?

[Datsuncog]

17 hours ago, artdjones said:

I hope I have better fortune. I have to order a new boiler this week. My wife noticed a leak on the path outside the boiler housing, so I took the side off, and found it pretty damp inside, including the lagging. I thought I'd check the pump unions, as that area was wettest. First one, perfectly tight, the second one,as soon as pressure was put on the nut the stub on the boiler ripped out, as it was totally corroded through. Also, the kettle failed 20 minutes later.😔

Crikey, seems like no-one's having much luck with their heating at the minute!

The old boiler that was semi-installed when we moved in was looking pretty corroded around the stubs too, which is why we bit the bullet and got a new system. 

The extent of it was only visible once we had it pulled out. It was an indoor boiler, but installed outside, so it's probably not surprising...

Hope you get sorted - it's an absolute pain, but as with us, I'd sooner it failed now than when there's six inches of snow on the ground.

3 hours ago, Remspoor said:

That is not correct. There are laws to give you two years warranty.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

Yes, and that's a rather lively ongoing conversation I'm having with the supplier.

I found the packaging, which claims a 3-yr guarantee.

We're not in the EU anymore, so their Europe-wide consumer contract guarantees now aren't enforceable... but the Consumer Rights Act 2015 should still hold true here.

18 minutes ago, myglaren said:

Can you claim on your house insurance?

I don't think so, no. I had a look at my policy documents and while they'll cover an 'emergency plumber call out', I'd have to pay for any parts needed.

Both of us are kinda used to being cold, so while it isn't really ideal, we'll probably not die just yet.

The electricians are back today to finish off the kitchen wiring, so with the front door and the attic hatch wide open, the place would be freezing anyway...

[andy18s]

2 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

The timber price has gone up here too. My dad produces and sells firewood and the firewood prices for next year look like they will have to double with where the timber prices are now. We are a bit lucky as we take all the bad firewood that is difficult to sell ourselves and we have some forest so we have almost free firewood.

We bought 15 cubic metres of un-chopped wood  18months ago at 80 lev per cube,paid for when ordered in April.

Once we actually got it delivered (late) 5 months later ,the price had gone upto 120 per cube.

This year it's over 200 per cube and will be damp,poor quality stuff as the best has been shipped out

[chaseracer]

1 hour ago, Datsuncog said:

but the Consumer Rights Act 2015 should still hold true here.

Yup: 'fitness for purpose'.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/10/enacted