The grumpy thread

[artdjones]

Without knowing the full story it's hard to get your head round but as a rule yes if you drive into a stationary vehicle then it's driving without due care & attention.

BUT that's not what you've said - he took evasive action and lost control, could have been diesel on the road, a massive pothole that ripped the suspension off, a bend and off camber road or any combination of other factors beyond the drivers control.

"led to the death" in this case would be correct as if the vehicle hadn't stopped then the death would not have occurred, blame for the dead is not indicated?

According to the Telegraph the BMW broke down in the middle of the road,the lights failed and it was painted black.

[DodgeRover]

DVLA Bunglecunts again

Applied for a V5 for this ( chancing my arm) MOT and tax exempt *cough*

 

Following guidance on the DVLA website I downloaded form V62 and form V whatever to declare SORN.

 

Log book arrived last week.

Went online last night and noticed "last taxed April 1984" so I declared SORN

 

Today a letter from the DVLA saying I couldnt declare SORN as I wasnt the registered owner along with my V whatever form back with a note on the top saying "process after May 2nd - V62 application"

 

Anyway, Log book, VIN tag and numberplate now in a folder.

Have you tried to declare it SORN again since, this seems to be a regular occurance - apparently they changed the rules so vehicles that were off the road pre sorn now need one at a change of keeper, well that was what they told me, probably isn't correct though.

[Eddie Honda]

Went online last night and noticed "last taxed April 1984" so I declared SORN

Where is this guidance?

 

As far as I remember, if it is pre-SORN, then no SORN need done until it is retaxed and brings itself into SORN. Change of keepers on pre-SORN stuff doesn't move the goalposts.

 

If the process has changed, where's the statutory instrument for it?

[AMC Rebel]

This letter in the FT from Julian Malins QC

 

Nice eh? Apparently a state education isn’t enough to pass a driving theory test. That must mean every youngster on the road was privately educated - and my state education would have prevented me passing the New Zealand theory test. Oh hang on, no it didn’t.....

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but really, is this his best shot? Has he no idea of insurance costs for young drivers?

 

For shits and giggles I did a comparison. In 1990 I had a Renault 5 1100cc valued at £300. The insurance cost me £280 which I earned in a couple of weeks full time at a local Supermarket during the school holidays.

 

If I bought Parkette a Clio 1.2 valued at £325 found on eBay, the insurance would cost £2800. I would suspect that was a significantly larger barrier to the road than a “mere” state education

 

And people wonder why I hate fucking lawyers. What a tool that QC is.

[DodgeRover]

Where is this guidance?

 

As far as I remember, if it is pre-SORN, then no SORN need done until it is retaxed and brings itself into SORN. Change of keepers on pre-SORN stuff doesn't move the goalposts.

 

If the process has changed, where's the statutory instrument for it?

No idea that was just what they told me when I rang to say the bike was pre sorn.

[Lord Sterling]

I'm in two minds about posting this, but fuck it.A story on the BBC news app just popped up on my phone about BMW recalling hundreds of thousands of cars. Fault that causes the engine to cut out, and the car to lose all electrical power.The fault, according to various news sources, has already 'led to one death'. How? A (black) BMW suffering from this fault was sitting at the side of a dual carriageway at 6:30am. The deceased apparently 'only had one second to react' to this stationary vehicle, swerved, lost control, and left the road.

Yes, I'd heard about this through Ma_Sterling. Which BMWs does it actually affect? All of them, and from which year etc...

 

Edit* I've just seen it:

 

BMW 1 Series, the 3 Series, the Z4 and its X1 petrol and diesel models made between March 2007 and August 2011

So, my car isn't affected then.

[wuvvum]

No idea that was just what they told me when I rang to say the bike was pre sorn.

In my experience, the advice you get from the DVLA depends on (among other things) which employee you speak to, the prevailing barometric pressure, whether or not there is an R in the month and the colour of the Queen's hat that day.

[richardmorris]

Yes, I'd heard about this through Ma_Sterling. Which BMWs does it actually affect? All of them, and from which year etc...

1, 3 and z4 and x1 petrol and diesels from 2007 to 2011 I think.

 

Onnwatchdog bbc1 now

[bramz7]

For fuck sake. After a smooth as anything purchase and drive home in the Brava (the seller was a proper car guy) I've now had an evening from hell with a clueless buyer. I advised to get the car transported. Nope, he wants to drive it. It won't go. Like I said.

 

Happily a forum member has offered to help and I am incredibly grateful. But seriously. If I ever have a non runner it's getting bailed straight away, screw eBay.

[Guest Hooli]

According to the Telegraph the BMW broke down in the middle of the road,the lights failed and it was painted black.

 

Don't care, if you can't see it in time to react safely then you're driving too fast for your abilities. Note I didn't say for the road etc, it's mostly down to the driver's skill, eyesight, reaction time etc etc

[richardmorris]

Don't care, if you can't see it in time to react safely then you're driving too fast for your abilities. Note I didn't say for the road etc, it's mostly down to the driver's skill, eyesight, reaction time etc etc

Photos I’ve just seen on bbc1 show the bmw off the road to a great degree and on the start of a slip road.

Fiesta in a hedge to the right. No contact made it seems so the bmw wasn’t moved in the accident.

 

I agree that if you can’t stop in time you’re going too fast.

 

Idiot blonde on the way home today was so intent on talking on her phone she didn’t notice the lights had changed. As I was just behind ( on the bike) I shouted oy, oy a couple of times but no reaction. I couldn’t pass because of oncoming traffic. She only moved when the car behind sounded his horn for ten seconds.

 

Morons everywhere.

[Guest Hooli]

Stop or avoid, depends on the road etc. But yeah it's not hard to drive to what you can see is it? Actually it must be with the amount of morons who can't manage it.

[Eddie Honda]

Getting out will be fun* seen as I'm on the shit side of town.

 

[Tamworthbay]

But the reason he couldn’t see it was it was black car on a black road on a black night, and on a bend where it made his lights point partly away from the place the car had broken down, hardly surprising he didn’t see it until it was too late.

[Craig the Princess]

Then he was driving too fast. What if it had been a crash, or a deer or one of a whole host of other unlit hazards.

 

We all do it, he didn't get away with it like we do.

[Guest Hooli]

But the reason he couldn’t see it was it was black car on a black road on a black night, and on a bend where it made his lights point partly away from the place the car had broken down, hardly surprising he didn’t see it until it was too late.

 

Anyone with half a brain drives slower in such conditions because they can't see well. 100% self inflicted to my mind.

[Tamworthbay]

No, he was driving not expecting a black thing to effectively kill him. Based on the too fast logic there would be no need for skips to be painted bright yellow and have lights. It is reasonable to expect a road not to have almost invisible things sat there. Otherwise no one could drive in a motorway at night, or pretty much anywhere above about 20mph. Could you guarantee to see a 6inch wide piece of exhaust dropped on a motorway travelling at 70mph? Of course you couldn’t and it’s not reasonable to expect you or anyone else to.

[wuvvum]

100% self inflicted to my mind.

 

I disagree.  When you're driving on an unlit back road at night, you don't expect there to suddenly be a car with no lights on sat in the middle of the road.  Your reaction time in a situation like that is slower than it would normally be, just because of that split second of disbelief where your eyes are telling your brain "there's a car there", and your brain is saying "no, there can't be".  The only self-inflicted bit of it that I can see is that he drove into a tree instead of hitting the Beemer - if he'd hit the car he might still be here.

[wuvvum]

Yeah, what Tamworthbay said...

[UltraWomble]

No idea that was just what they told me when I rang to say the bike was pre sorn.

Same here, which is when I got told to submit both forms and the cheque together.

[Guest Hooli]

No, he was driving not expecting a black thing to effectively kill him. Based on the too fast logic there would be no need for skips to be painted bright yellow and have lights. It is reasonable to expect a road not to have almost invisible things sat there. Otherwise no one could drive in a motorway at night, or pretty much anywhere above about 20mph. Could you guarantee to see a 6inch wide piece of exhaust dropped on a motorway travelling at 70mph? Of course you couldn’t and it’s not reasonable to expect you or anyone else to.

 

It's not an invisible thing though is it? it'll have reflectors & things.

 

As to the exhaust comment, yes. I've spotted & avoided a backbox, half a brick & various other small unlit things by looking where I was going. The half a brick was while filtering between several rows of traffic towards the toll booths on the QE2 bridge for example & believe me filtering in that sort of place takes a lot more concentration than driving a car if you're going to do it safely.

 

Of course it's not normal for anything to be there, but going on the assumption the road should be clear means it's safe to do 155mph on your limiter in a town outside a school as kids shouldn't walk out when the see a car coming.

 

Sorry but anyone who can't see that driving into a stationary object or crashing because you couldn't drive around it is the driver's fault has to me a very warped view of what driving skills consist of.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

It's not an invisible thing though is it? it'll have reflectors & things.

 

As to the exhaust comment, yes. I've spotted & avoided a backbox, half a brick & various other small unlit things by looking where I was going. The half a brick was while filtering between several rows of traffic towards the toll booths on the QE2 bridge for example & believe me filtering in that sort of place takes a lot more concentration than driving a car if you're going to do it safely.

 

Of course it's not normal for anything to be there, but going on the assumption the road should be clear means it's safe to do 155mph on your limiter in a town outside a school as kids shouldn't walk out when the see a car coming.

 

Sorry but anyone who can't see that driving into a stationary object or crashing because you couldn't drive around it is the driver's fault has to me a very warped view of what driving skills consist of.

No matter how quick your think your reflexes are, you only need to be unlucky once. That goes for you just as much as it did for the deceased ex-Gurkha driver of the Fiesta. I surmise you are a bit younger than he was.

[clayts450]

I'm amazed at how other drivers fail to scan the road ahead as far as possible and keep in the back of your mind how much you may need to brake - it's rule number 1, shirley ?

 

Very sad the geezer died, but what's to say he wasn't farting about on his phone, or had nodded off. Irrespective of whether the car was at an angle or not you surely cannot avoid to see another car ahead of you if you're paying complete attention ?

 

Roadcraft bangs on about "being able to stop within the distance that you know to be clear" for a reason... 

[Guest Hooli]

 

 

Roadcraft bangs on about "being able to stop within half the distance that you know to be clear" for a reason... 

 

EFA - As you always* need to expect someone coming the other way doing the same speed you are.

 

*Excluding one way streets etc of course.

[Guest Hooli]

No matter how quick your think your reflexes are, you only need to be unlucky once. That goes for you just as much as it did for the deceased ex-Gurkha driver of the Fiesta. I surmise you are a bit younger than he was.

 

Hence old people drive slower....

 

I agree it's partly luck, but you can stack the odds in your favour a hell of a long way by doing the right things. Besides if you look properly & drive at the speed you can see too then you don't need excellent reflexes as things don't come as a surprise.

[Mally]

If everyone travels at a speed they can see to stop.

How come there are so many accidents?

[Guest Hooli]

If everyone travels at a speed they can see to stop.

How come there are so many accidents?

 

They don't though do they? or they don't pay attention.

 

Doesn't mean they shouldn't do so though. People treat driving as a right not a skill these days & never think about it.

[Jerzy Woking]

Riding to work this morning along the A13 into London I get stuck behind another motorbike filtering, only he/she is going very slowly - I can see they are checking their mirrors, but won't pull in to a gap to let me past, which I can just about accept, so don't force the issue. Has his/her hazard lights on all the time which does piss me off as no point to it. My biggest grump? They are wearing an orangey pink hi viz tabard with "Your Following the wabbit" printed on the back.

 

It's "You're" not Your, and "Wabbit" not wabbit. I hate grammatical errors, and having to look at it, and hazard lights, for ten enforced minutes made me so bloody annoyed! 

[Lacquer Peel]

I've been surprised by cars with DRLs and no tail lights in the dark before.

Not sure about the victim blaming, why bother with hazard lights or warning triangles if a car's reflectors are enough? BMW is definitely liable here, especially as they recalled cars in other regions for the same problem.

[warren t claim]

Is it just me who has trouble judging the distance of an oncoming car at night with defective lighting where one side has a headlight on and the other just a sidelight?