ULEZ

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Easy now, I fully feel for the dude. Just like I fully feel for everyone in London who breathes the fumes.

Given current London-centric events, I wonder whether the fumes, or getting randomly stabbed, is/are the lesser evil.

 

I expect everyone’s alternative option is to keep polluting like fuck, which doesn’t seem very sustainable to me.

That’s why I wondered if any has any positive suggestions. Other than, you know, polluting like fuck.

Is this not a side effect of Autoshite?

[Dan_ZTT]

What do you expect him to do? If it’s costing him another £25 or whatever is he supposed to absorb that?

 

I don't know what he's driving at the moment, or what job he's doing, so it's hard to say for definite, but the idea is that he would get a different vehicle. That's certainly the political intention anyway. Passing the cost of said vehicle on to the end user is still justified, any competitor would be expected to be doing the same so it shouldn't affect the business.

 

 

[Marm Toastsmith]

Given current London-centric events, I wonder whether the fumes, or getting randomly stabbed, is/are the lesser evil.

 

Seems like targeted gang stabbings more than random attacks round here. Maybe if they had clean air to breathe they'd be less inclined to run around killing each other.

 

And maybe if the middle class druggies fueling it knew what fresh air tasted like they wouldn't shove quite so much shit coke up their noses.

[sierraman]

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like cyclists these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the road. The greater part of them are absolute cretins, I’m not suggesting they all get squashed within the spats of the nearest bus but you’ve got to concede the Lycra clad fuckers filming everyone are absolute tyrants. I’m fully expecting to get flamed for this.

[Marm Toastsmith]

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like people these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the planet. The greater part of them are absolute cretins

 

FTFY

[Dan_ZTT]

Re: cost/availability of permissible cars, there is no issue at all. My 2002 MG (bought for £750) is compliant, loads and loads of early 2000s petrol cars are too and they're available for peanuts. To be honest I think they could have got away with going even stricter but have decided not to push it.
 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....And maybe if the middle class druggies fueling it knew what fresh air tasted like they wouldn't shove quite so much shit coke up their noses.

 

Meanwhile, out in the fresh air of the "county lines"....

[Dan_ZTT]

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like cyclists these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the road. The greater part of them are absolute cretins, I’m not suggesting they all get squashed within the spats of the nearest bus but you’ve got to concede the Lycra clad fuckers filming everyone are absolute tyrants. I’m fully expecting to get flamed for this.

I don't think it's cyclists per se, I think it's just London. Everyone's in this kind of permanent manic state, so stressed about their job and their insane rent and hyped up on caramel lattes, too self-consumed to properly consider the world around them. 

 

I've lived 26 of my 32 years in that city, I still love plenty of things about it and I like my occasional visits, but I'd be very surprised if I ever end up living there again.

[Sheefag]

I don't know what he's driving at the moment, or what job he's doing, so it's hard to say for definite, but the idea is that he would get a different vehicle. That's certainly the political intention anyway. Passing the cost of said vehicle on to the end user is still justified, any competitor would be expected to be doing the same so it shouldn't affect the business.

 

 

 

Spot on Dan.

I run an audio visual company, I design, install and repair everything from boardroom av, large building tv distribution systems and lighting control. I run a 2.5l Diesel HiAce which is chock full of tools and stock.

 

Hourly rates have stood still for over 10 years now whereas the costs have risen whilst traditional equipment margins have collapsed.

 

My day starts at 05.00 and ends at anything between 16.00 and 23.00 depending on how the day pans out.

 

Tomorrow will start off with a diagnostic visit to a legal company in Bedford Square WC1. That's an hour and 24 miles, unpaid to start with. CC and ULEZ will run to £24 with parking running at £5.55 an hour.

 

Next stop will be Copthall Avenue EC2. 20 to 40 minutes to cover that 2.5miles, £4.80 an hour to park when I get there.

 

Final stop will be a bank in Mansion house place. Only half a mile away but a £120 fine if I don't remember to avoid Bank crossroads which is closed to any traffic other than taxis and buses - nobody has mentioned this to Google Maps however. Another £4.80 an hour to park when I get there.

 

90 minutes to 2 hours plus 28 miles to get home after this little lot and that's assuming that the phone doesn't ring in the meantime.

 

I'm not going to work that hard just to give £120 to the clowns running TFL, so they can piss it up the wall on some new idiotic fucking scheme.

[Sheefag]

As Kiltox said earlier, I'd be fucking incandescent if I'd ponied up for a 2016 van when the LEZ came in, only to have to bin it for the ULEZ.

How long before the ULEZ goalposts change?

 

There is a price to be paid for forcing the likes of me out of London.

 

I pay tax. I have employees and they pay tax. I collect and pay VAT, workplace pension contributions, corporation tax etc.

I carry 15 million quids worth of employers liabilty, public liability and professional indemnity insurance.

 

In the near future, if you live in London and need a trade such as electrician, plumber, builder etc, you'll be faced with paying double in cash for someone carrying none of the above who shares a house with 10 others, who won't be interested in honouring any kind of warranty or ponying up to the likes of Capita. Who will subcontract it to one of the above whilst avoiding paying any tax at all.

[Dan_ZTT]

Hourly rates have stood still for over 10 years now whereas the costs have risen whilst traditional equipment margins have collapsed.

This is a major problem yeah. I'm in a similar field (live sound), so many clients just don't seem to value the knowledge and expertise in the AV world anymore. People just expect you to do everything on the cheap, or worse try to do it themselves and then call you out when it all goes wrong. 

 

 

[Sheefag]

Dan, I feel sorry for the people being suckered by the likes of Cedia into going into residential av. There's absolutely no margin in the equipment yet you've got to stand behind the warranty and there's always people queuing up to install it as a hobby.

 

In your industry, live sound rates have been decimated by the explosion in freelancers unfortunately and as you rightly say, nobody wants to pay for the knowledge and reputation until the shits hit the fan. And then you hear the sob stories about how they've already spent the money. Sound familiar?

 

I abandoned the residential market apart from a few select customers for the reason above. Commercial is still viable but competition is really fierce from the big guys such as Proav, Electrosonic and Impact Marcom AVMI or whatever the fuck they're called this week.

 

It's worth bearing in mind that in London, everybody wants to sell and install new kit but nobody likes fixing it afterwards so that niche still exists. Whenever the economy takes a hit, large companies will freeze their Capex but still need to keep their existing kit running.

 

I don't know if you have any RF expertise but Fibre IRS was my best earner last year and continues to do very well and I'm also moving into DALI lighting programming.

DALI runs the lighting in pretty much every large office building and is completely stitched up by the manufacturers but I've found a way in.

 

The final new and growing revenue stream is a bit left field, I've been backlighting translucent onyx and marble panels and also constructing custom infinity lighting panels for the stupidly wealthy. It's a curious niche, the advantages being that there's little competition  and the customer can't compare prices on Google.

 

Just a few little ideas that you could probably turn your skillset towards should the arse continue to fall out of live events.

 

In short, you have to keep reinventing yourself constantly to make a living whilst people like TFL and the government, constantly research new ways of preventing you from doing so.

[beko1987]

I had a moment of brief panic as I found myself in the low emission zone near ubbridge in the xantia once... Then read up on it and breathed!

 

I drove to Islington from the a1 last year, was utterly fucking terrifying! Probably doing it again in March!

[Bucketeer]

I’d get on a bus that chucks out a load of dense black smoke in cyclists faces.

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like cyclists these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the road. The greater part of them are absolute cretins, I’m not suggesting they all get squashed within the spats of the nearest bus but you’ve got to concede the Lycra clad fuckers filming everyone are absolute tyrants. I’m fully expecting to get flamed for this.

What's the point in those comments? Cyclists and cycling weren't even part of the discussion. You obviously dislike cyclists but you're not compelled to tell everyone about it.

This thread, like so many others, could be a sensible, reasoned and interesting discussion about the subject at hand but unfortunately pointless and antagonistic comments like these only serve to cause arguments, which in turn leads to complaints, which then leaves the mods no choice but to clean up the mess (see pretty much every other locked/hidden thread for the outcome of this disease).

[Sheefag]

Cyclists in London along wth vehicle drivers and motorcyclists have a thing in common, you only notice the bad ones and not the literally thousands who just get on with their commute.

 

That said, I'd reserve a special place in hell for those West End rickshaw bastards though.

[paulplom]

As Kiltox said earlier, I'd be fucking incandescent if I'd ponied up for a 2016 van when the LEZ came in, only to have to bin it for the ULEZ.

How long before the ULEZ goalposts change?

 

There is a price to be paid for forcing the likes of me out of London.

 

I pay tax. I have employees and they pay tax. I collect and pay VAT, workplace pension contributions, corporation tax etc.

I carry 15 million quids worth of employers liabilty, public liability and professional indemnity insurance.

 

In the near future, if you live in London and need a trade such as electrician, plumber, builder etc, you'll be faced with paying double in cash for someone carrying none of the above who shares a house with 10 others, who won't be interested in honouring any kind of warranty or ponying up to the likes of Capita. Who will subcontract it to one of the above whilst avoiding paying any tax at all.

I'm a self employed plumber. I have ten million public liability insurance. I pay tax every year although I'm not vat registered. I hate cash. It's a total pain in the arse to get rid of. There's only so much you can spend. How much is your weekly shop etc.? Far easier to use contactless or chip and pin. Cash's days are numbered. Tell me how to pay my credit card bills, Mortgage etc. with cash? Any cash I get generally goes in the bank (pain in the arse) or I keep a bit for a pint etc.

[paulplom]

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like cyclists these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the road. The greater part of them are absolute cretins, I’m not suggesting they all get squashed within the spats of the nearest bus but you’ve got to concede the Lycra clad fuckers filming everyone are absolute tyrants. I’m fully expecting to get flamed for this.

I've never understood the lycra or needing the lightest bike and latest gear. Why not cycle about in shit catchers, a baggy jumper on a Raleigh grifter. You'd need to do half the distance and still use the same calories while being fucked at the end of it. Half the distance would be twice as safe as well. Win win. I do disagree with them all being cunts though. It just seems to be the majority, and I'm a keen cyclist (hobby only though).

[purplebargeken]

I cycle when I can remember to, mostly when not snowing or pissing down with rain. I don't wear Lycra, I'm not that cruel lol.

 

I don't wear a body cam, I don't harangue motorists unless they are real cunts who are on the way to injuring me 'cause they are genuinely stupid. I do get a bit sweary at times though lol but on the whole it could be much worse round here. Am I a cunt? Probably a bit of a one anyway, irrespective of pedals 

 

The ULEZ is coming, I did get a bit panicky at the beginning, 'the world is going to end' thing but as others said, I'll just try and avoid driving in the chargey bits. 

 

Did the drive into the City centre thing on alternate days, monitored by different numbered/coloured plates thing ever work anywhere? I seem to recall it being a 'thing' a few years ago in Johnny Foreigner Land somewhere.

[Maurice Marina]

This another indirect tax and has the benefit of weeding out the oiks that can’t pay.

 

If you can afford it you won’t give a monkeys left.

[Kiltox]

I cycle when I can remember to, mostly when not snowing or pissing down with rain. I don't wear Lycra, I'm not that cruel lol.

 

I don't wear a body cam, I don't harangue motorists unless they are real cunts who are on the way to injuring me 'cause they are genuinely stupid. I do get a bit sweary at times though lol but on the whole it could be much worse round here. Am I a cunt? Probably a bit of a one anyway, irrespective of pedals

 

The ULEZ is coming, I did get a bit panicky at the beginning, 'the world is going to end' thing but as others said, I'll just try and avoid driving in the chargey bits.

 

Did the drive into the City centre thing on alternate days, monitored by different numbered/coloured plates thing ever work anywhere? I seem to recall it being a 'thing' a few years ago in Johnny Foreigner Land somewhere.

Beijing IIRC.

[wuvvum]

I’ll put my neck out there but on the whole, and I’m sure there’s good ones, I don’t like cyclists these days. They wind about, uninsured, filming everything they do like some sort of bastion of all that’s righteous about being on the road. The greater part of them are absolute cretins, I’m not suggesting they all get squashed within the spats of the nearest bus but you’ve got to concede the Lycra clad fuckers filming everyone are absolute tyrants. I’m fully expecting to get flamed for this.

How do you know they are uninsured?

[New POD]

Re: cost/availability of permissible cars, there is no issue at all. My 2002 MG (bought for £750) is compliant, loads and loads of early 2000s petrol cars are too and they're available for peanuts. To be honest I think they could have got away with going even stricter but have decided not to push it.

 

My 3.2 2001 mv6 omega seems to comply.

 

Not that I care to go that far south.

[New POD]

How do you know they are uninsured?

If you see me on my birthday bike, you'll know.

[sierraman]

How do you know they are uninsured?

85% of them apparently

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/money/cyclists-need-insurance-20000-risk-12943064.amp

[Adrian_pt]

Potentially by putting in place policies that also target the big hitters, if you're serious. Hint: buses and black cabs, not Mrs Miggins in her M-reg Astra doing the Saturday shop. 

 

Current zone is sensible (even thought the amount of private cars who go there is minuscule). Extending to within the zone bounded by N and S Circulars - ie plenty of suburbs where people live and earn a living, 1) has a much smaller effect on air quality (as this tends to be where there's much less congestion than ultra-central London) and 2) affects many more people many of whom are not Central London plutocrats. 

 

That said, lots to be done on air quality - but from my daily (cycle) commute, it's not the private car that's the real sinner here. 

 

Easy now, I fully feel for the dude. Just like I fully feel for everyone in London who breathes the fumes.

I expect everyone’s alternative option is to keep polluting like fuck, which doesn’t seem very sustainable to me.

That’s why I wondered if any has any positive suggestions. Other than, you know, polluting like fuck.

[mrbenn]

The thing is, this is genuinely one of the few things that has cross party support. Ninety percent of the ULEZ was drawn up under Johnson, Khan has just tinkered around the edges. And it's government policy to roll it out to other cities with poor air quality - just around me, Bath (Tory) are in the middle of a public consultation on whether they should adopt something which is more or less a photocopy of the London scheme and Bristol (Labour) have publicly said they're considering it.

 

 

 

Are you using the LEZ checker or the ULEZ checker? TfL have done an abysmal job explaining the difference but as the LEZ only affects commercial vehicles it won't pick up the Smart or the Focus. Although one of the real criticisms of the ULEZ is that there's no actual number plate checker that exists for it, so there's loads of cars (mine included) that are exempt but you won't find out unless you pore over the V5 and then send a photocopy off to TfL to register it.

 

Tax on the poor? My car is exempt, its 13 years old and I bought it off here for £600. Anything on an 06 plate or later is fine if it isn't diesel, and given the minimum requirement to live in the congestion charge zone is 'owns a significant stake in a Kazakh aluminium mine' it'll only really start impacting on normal people in 2021. How much is a 15 year old Mondeo?

 

Although from your private hire perspective, I'll come back and post a picture of my naked arse in this thread if they haven't brought in some sort of ULEZ at Heathrow in the next five years to get expansion through...

 

I was using this website to check:

 

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/vrm-checker-ulez

[Fabergé Greggs]

Potentially by putting in place policies that also target the big hitters, if you're serious. Hint: buses and black cabs, not Mrs Miggins in her M-reg Astra doing the Saturday shop. 

 

Current zone is sensible (even thought the amount of private cars who go there is minuscule). Extending to within the zone bounded by N and S Circulars - ie plenty of suburbs where people live and earn a living, 1) has a much smaller effect on air quality (as this tends to be where there's much less congestion than ultra-central London) and 2) affects many more people many of whom are not Central London plutocrats. 

 

That said, lots to be done on air quality - but from my daily (cycle) commute, it's not the private car that's the real sinner here. 

 

 

Shall we try and quantify this a bit? I can't look any of this up right now, but in response to this my (unfounded) hunch is that:

 

• Don't Taxis and buses already have to comply to emissions standards way beyond that of private vehicles? Aren't they on Euro 90 million now or some shiz? 
• Aren't Ubers more prolific than Black cabs, most of which come in Insight and Prius flavour? 
• How many people does a bus carry at rush hour versus how many people a car carries? Shall we hazard a safe guess at 40 versus 1? Shouldn't that be factored in to their relative emissions? 
• Amount of private cars "minuscule". We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. 

If anyone has any stats I'd love to hear them. 

 

Edit: here's some outline policy on black cabs https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/emissions-standards-for-taxis

And hers's some hitting buses: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/improving-buses

[angle]

Shall we try and quantify this a bit? I can't look any of this up right now, but in response to this my (unfounded) hunch is that:

 

• Don't Taxis and buses already have to comply to emissions standards way beyond that of private vehicles? Aren't they on Euro 8 now or some shiz?
• Aren't Ubers more prolific than Black cabs, most of which come in Insight and Prius flavour?
• How many people does a bus carry at rush hour versus how many people a car carries? Shall we hazard a safe guess at 40 versus 1? Shouldn't that be factored in to their relative emissions?
• Amount of private cars "minuscule". We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

If anyone has any stats I'd love to hear them.

Buses - all have to be Euro VI across all of London by October next year. All new buses being brought into service have been hybrid, electric or hydrogen for a few years now.

 

Taxis - all Hackney cabs that are newly registered have to be hybrid. Minicabs have to follow ULEZ rules, but from talking to people involved in the ULEZ they looked at bringing this in earlier but decided against it as theres no hybrid 7-seaters.

 

Private cars - across charging hours, there's about 13000 vehicles an hour driving into or out of the congestion charge zone. About 5000 of those are private cars, about 6000 are taxis or minicabs. Most of what's left is LGVs or HGVs.

[sierraman]

The problem is that it’s penalising the people who need a car but are restricted financially to an older car. Sidiq Khans answer would be to buy a £30,000 hybrid electric car so you are compliant but that’s not feasible for the vast majority of people. Stuffing the working man over, but then what’s new there.

[angle]

NB: looks like the definition of 'private car' is actually anything with a PLG tax class, so includes vans...