Driver unfriendly car features

[Talbot]

  On 29/08/2018 at 21:01, myglaren said:

My C5 is the same - except when it decides to wipe of its own volition.

A fun feature* like that would have me sending the car to the crusher. I absolutely cannot stand vehicles that don't do as they are told. If I put a switch in a certain position, that is what I want and expect.

 

Peugeot have a long tradition of doing this, even pre-canbus. If you put a 306s heater to windscreen, it instantly puts the AC on. Every bastard time. I didn't ask for AC, I asked for air up the windscren.

[Guest Hooli]

Thar has a logic though. AC dries the air so demist better.

[martc]

  On 02/09/2018 at 15:38, Hooli said:

Thar has a logic though. AC dries the air so demist better.

 

But then you have created an arid atmosphere in the car and chilled the windscreen which means that when you turn the aircon off the windscreen will fog up very quickly. Much more quickly than if you had demisted without it. Consequently you need to keep the aircon all the time, which divides opinion on this forum, so I'll stop right here...

[Guest Hooli]

  On 02/09/2018 at 16:30, martc said:

But then you have created an arid atmosphere in the car and chilled the windscreen which means that when you turn the aircon off the windscreen will fog up very quickly. Much more quickly than if you had demisted without it. Consequently you need to keep the aircon all the time, which divides opinion on this forum, so I'll stop right here...

 

Why would it chill the screen? the AC flow runs via the heater box so can be delivered at any temp?

 

Personally I'd rather have manual controls too, with an auto button for when I'm too lazy. One thing that annoyed me in Phase 2 V70s & S80s was putting it on demist ramped the fan up to max so it was like driving in a gale, but no other button choice put any air out the demist vents.

[Tamworthbay]

Shit I am lazy, I love the fully auto climate, auto demist brill too. Press one button done. When I get into the wife’s Fiat 500 I just can’t be arsed with all the controls. As a bloke I just have an aversion to twiddling unnecessary knobs I suppose.

[puddlethumper]

After reading this thread I'm kind of glad I have a base 305 van.

[martc]

  On 02/09/2018 at 17:01, Hooli said:

Why would it chill the screen? the AC flow runs via the heater box so can be delivered at any temp?

 

Personally I'd rather have manual controls too, with an auto button for when I'm too lazy. One thing that annoyed me in Phase 2 V70s & S80s was putting it on demist ramped the fan up to max so it was like driving in a gale, but no other button choice put any air out the demist vents.

 

It would chill the windows if you didn't have the heater on... but either way the windows steam up a lot quicker if you used AC air to demist them rather than 'natural' humid air.

[Talbot]

Also, even with the heater on, when the AC is running you create condensation on the evaporator coils and slightly downstream. When the heater is on, yes you get nice warm and dry air.

 

If you then turn the AC off, the evaporator colls warm up and all the condensation then creates very humid air for quite some time.

 

I remember experiencing this for the first time in a 405. Had a long journey in quite warm weather, so had the AC on for a fair while. About an hour to go to get home, and it gets a bit cooler, and then starts raining. "don't need the AC any more" thinks I, and turns it off. Instant invisible road. Had to run for another hour with the AC on, as the instant you turned it off, all the glass went instantly opaque

 

So I'd rather choose whether I want the AC on or not, as the moment you've put it on in cold weather, you have to keep it on.

[FakeConcern]

  On 25/08/2018 at 19:09, Junkman said:

Manual gearboxes. Not sure why that outmoded rubbish even still exists.

They became obsolete the day the fist automatic was installed, which was well over 100 years ago.

Sorry I can't agree with this. Pretty much every auto I've driven was in the wrong gear at some time or other or would hunt up and down for a gear at particular speeds.

 

Not the only autos I've driven, but the only ones I've owned

 

XM V6

 

V70 T5

 

Both were great in a way, but still susceptible to the traits outlined above.

I would only buy manual now.

[Wilko220]

Temperature gauges that don't actually tell you the temperature of the engine but are computer controlled to just either sit in the middle or go up to maximum.

[FakeConcern]

  On 29/08/2018 at 12:45, Wilko220 said:

Dashboards that illuminate all the time rather than only when you have the headlights switched on. What is the point, other than to confuse you?

This is what auto lights were invented for

[FakeConcern]

  On 29/08/2018 at 12:25, Hooli said:

Sunroofs. They only exist to give you sunburn on your head & a bad neck as they reduce headroom so far you can't sit upright.

I like a sunroof! My first car, a Mini 1000 had a fabric Webasto and almost every car since has had some kind of glass roof (including current C4 VTS that I flew from Sussex to Inverness to collect as it was one of very few with pan roof!) and have never had a headroom problem (I'm 6 foot tall) so I must have been lucky with my choice of sun roofed (rooved?) cars.

[dozeydustman]

  On 02/09/2018 at 20:39, FakeConcern said:

I like a sunroof! My first car, a Mini 1000 had a fabric Webasto and almost every car since has had some kind of glass roof (including current C4 VTS that I flew from Sussex to Inverness to collect as it was one of very few with pan roof!) and have never had a headroom problem (I'm 6 foot tall) so I must have been lucky with my choice of sun roofed (rooved?) cars.

 

 

It depends on the sunroof. Those that drop down then slide between the tin and headlining take about 3 inches of headroom up. Webasto, pop-up and those that slide along the outside of the car's roof take little to no headspace up. Then the bloody things leak as well.

[Zelandeth]

I'd forgotten stop start systems.

 

One in a nearly new (2015 I think) Astra I discovered had a couple of flaws.

 

Firstly, it couldn't start the engine as quickly as I could get from neutral, into gear and ready to go. In which case it would beep at me and tell me to depress the clutch to start the engine...leaving me standing at the traffic lights being honked at.

 

The worst feature though I found was discovered, much to my terror, during a traffic jam, halfway down North Anderson Drive in Aberdeen. This road goes down quite a steep hill at one point, and sure enough, the stop-start stopped the engine when I was in the queue. Traffic started moving, going downhill, so just let the handbrake off and let it roll a bit. The system wasn't smart enough to detect the car was moving below about 10mph. I discovered something at this point as I went to turn a corner. The power steering doesn't work if the engine isn't running...and it's impossible to steer without it (seriously, impossible - not 30s bus heavy - I literally couldn't shift the wheel an inch). A few milliseconds later, I discovered something else... something else doesn't work without the engine...the brake servo. Standing on the pedal didn't have any effect on the car's determination to roll into the bus in front of me - all I can say is thank heaven the thing still had an actual handbrake, and that it worked.

 

Suffice to say, that experience put me off the idea forever. Plus I've still never been given a proper answer on what mods have been done to the engines to deal with issues such as maintaining oil pressure, coolant circulation to avoid heat soak problems etc...which to my mind can't be good for it.

 

I was always taught to let an engine idle for a bit before turning it off. Especially turbocharged ones. All of the VW group cars we see through here as company vehicles are generally turbocharged these days - and they all kill the engine the instant you stop at the lights on the motorway slip road, five seconds after you were at motorway speeds. That *can't* be good for it.

 

 

The pedal operated parking brake definitely works better on an automatic. Never had any issues with the one on a mate's old (77 I think) Merc, though he didn't warn me to put my foot on the pedal before pulling the release handle. When I first drove the car, at six in the morning, on a Monday, driving us to a meeting.

 

The reverberating *BOOONNNNNNG!* - mostly courtesy of the spring on the thing - that came from under the dash the moment I pulled the handle scared me half to death and nearly sent me out of the car via the sunroof.

 

Never made that mistake twice! ...Nor did I ever live down the magnitude to which I visibly jumped.

[Remspoor]

  On 02/09/2018 at 20:33, FakeConcern said:

This is what auto lights were invented for

However, the big failing is that auto lights do not work in rain or mist.

[SierraMikeHotel]

I normally drive the Saab very sedately as there's generally a greyhound in the boot, but I found myself in the rare position of driving it solo yesterday so gave it a few more beans than usual.

 

I've discovered that there's an audible warning when the traction control cuts in. Because half-way around a challenging corner is *exactly* when you want to be distracted by a warning bong.

[GeordieInExile]

Ah, so that's what that bong is...!

[Guest Hooli]

I'm glad mine doesn't have that bong!

[Scruffy Bodger]

Series III land rovers. Mine had a great design feature that meant you had to select reverse with the flat of your hand only. If you didn't it used to very helpfully crush your fingers between the gear knob and the dash. Painful enough for me to remember 25 years later.

[Fumbler]

Something very driver unfriendly in my experience was my father's old (2004 modern sh...) V70. A feature that had manifested itself in making the car lose all electrical power at just the wrong time, say, like, a bypass A road and made everything stop, apart from the hazard lights. A feature so intuitive it even foxed a well renowned Volvo specialist. Nedless to say it somehow ended up in a dealership in Preston. So I call the feature the "Time-To-Get-New-Car" feature. I'd love to see if it's still taxed but we forgot the registration.

[Zelandeth]

Just remembered one "design feature" in a friend's (X300 I think) Jag XJ6 that left him stranded at the side of the road having to get recovered and spent a couple of days trying to sort.

 

Rather than putting the inertia switch somewhere obvious and easily reset, it's bolted to the interior side of the driver's side inner wheel arch, buried behind the dash.

 

What happened was that he lost a balance weight from the wheel, and it managed to whack the arch exactly where the switch was attached, triggering it.

 

This left the car with zero electrical power and the boot (where his jacket was) locked shut (because that's where the battery and fuel tank are). Not ideal when it's tipping it down and you're in the middle of nowhere.

 

Once the switch was found, obviously it was easily resolved...but seriously, why not just put it in the engine bay on the bulkhead like everyone else did? Or at least put a label somewhere telling you where it is?

[forddeliveryboy]

  On 25/08/2018 at 08:01, Steve79 said:

Dashpods on the Citroen GSA and Visa.

 

Anything with a floor mounted handbrake instead of the traditional hand operated design - Especially Citroen XM!

Understand your prob with manual 'box and pedal h'brake but the pods and rocker switches on real Cits were totally ace compared with column stalkes and random dash switches.

[Sir Snipes]

My old work had a SRT-10 Ram for publicity purposes. That had a foot park-brake and had been converted to manual gearbox....

[SiC]

  On 02/09/2018 at 22:24, Zelandeth said:

I'd forgotten stop start systems.

 

One in a nearly new (2015 I think) Astra I discovered had a couple of flaws.

 

Firstly, it couldn't start the engine as quickly as I could get from neutral, into gear and ready to go. In which case it would beep at me and tell me to depress the clutch to start the engine...leaving me standing at the traffic lights being honked at.

 

The worst feature though I found was discovered, much to my terror, during a traffic jam, halfway down North Anderson Drive in Aberdeen. This road goes down quite a steep hill at one point, and sure enough, the stop-start stopped the engine when I was in the queue. Traffic started moving, going downhill, so just let the handbrake off and let it roll a bit. The system wasn't smart enough to detect the car was moving below about 10mph. I discovered something at this point as I went to turn a corner. The power steering doesn't work if the engine isn't running...and it's impossible to steer without it (seriously, impossible - not 30s bus heavy - I literally couldn't shift the wheel an inch). A few milliseconds later, I discovered something else... something else doesn't work without the engine...the brake servo. Standing on the pedal didn't have any effect on the car's determination to roll into the bus in front of me - all I can say is thank heaven the thing still had an actual handbrake, and that it worked.

 

Our A4 has stop/start. I've tried racing it to see if I could get in gear and try pulling away on the clutch before it starts again. I haven't won yet.

 

It will also start the engine in all those scenarios listed above. Hydraulic steering, so heavy when stopped but the slightest movement will kick the engine back in. Get above 5mph rolling, engine starts. Pump the break pedal to loose enough vacuum reserve, engine starts.

 

  On 02/09/2018 at 22:24, Zelandeth said:

Suffice to say, that experience put me off the idea forever. Plus I've still never been given a proper answer on what mods have been done to the engines to deal with issues such as maintaining oil pressure, coolant circulation to avoid heat soak problems etc...which to my mind can't be good for it.

 

I was always taught to let an engine idle for a bit before turning it off. Especially turbocharged ones. All of the VW group cars we see through here as company vehicles are generally turbocharged these days - and they all kill the engine the instant you stop at the lights on the motorway slip road, five seconds after you were at motorway speeds. That *can't* be good for it.

 

Again the A4 and most likely other VAG vehicles have stuff for that. Ours has an additional electric water pump to keep circulating coolant when shut off on stop/start. The turbo is water cooled too. It will inhibit shutdown if the conditions aren't right. I.e. engine really hot - especially after/during a regen. It also monitors the state of charge in the battery and inhibit stop/start if too low.

 

The major components - engine/gearbox/turbo/injectors/fuel pump/starter/alternator/battery/etc are all original on the A4 and it's 8 years old with over 175k now. So they definitely can last.

 

TL;DR Vauxhall's are shit and haven't deisgned in things to resolve these issues.

[twosmoke300]

  On 03/09/2018 at 11:27, Scruffy Bodger said:

Series III land rovers. Mine had a great design feature that meant you had to select reverse with the flat of your hand only. If you didn't it used to very helpfully crush your fingers between the gear knob and the dash. Painful enough for me to remember 25 years later.

 

 

It didnt help that the 1-4 gears were quite short throw and snicky and reverse was loose and moved about 6 inches so you really battered your knuckles into the dash

[Scruffy Bodger]

  On 06/09/2018 at 06:51, twosmoke300 said:

It didnt help that the 1-4 gears were quite short throw and snicky and reverse was loose and moved about 6 inches so you really battered your knuckles into the dash

Yep, that sums up the design well, quality engineering.

[paulplom]

What's the crack with the oil pressure gauge on a mk2 mx-5? It's just a switch so just sits at half way or zero. Nothing in between. Totally pointless.

[Sir Snipes]

I've been driving work's Transit Custom this week. It does that thing with the fog lights coming on, tracking steering wheel inputs (I assume that's what it is doing anyway). I find it really distracting and utterly useless as all it does is illuminate the area behind the pillar (the blind spot). Also the light show as you go lock to lock when doing a 3-point turn is really some thing quite remarkable. I have no doubt it involves ECUs and things that will likely eventually fail and scrap the van as they will be either prohibitively expensive, NLS or both.

[Guest Hooli]

  On 06/09/2018 at 11:38, paulplom said:

What's the crack with the oil pressure gauge on a mk2 mx-5? It's just a switch so just sits at half way or zero. Nothing in between. Totally pointless.

 

Most owners* would probably complain if it showed actual oil pressure & take it back as it keeps changing.

[SierraMikeHotel]

  On 14/12/2018 at 11:06, Snipes said:

I've been driving work's Transit Custom this week. It does that thing with the fog lights coming on, tracking steering wheel inputs (I assume that's what it is doing anyway). I find it really distracting and utterly useless as all it does is illuminate the area behind the pillar (the blind spot). Also the light show as you go lock to lock when doing a 3-point turn is really some thing quite remarkable. I have no doubt it involves ECUs and things that will likely eventually fail and scrap the van as they will be either prohibitively expensive, NLS or both.

I never like to jump on the "all modernz is shit" bandwagon but I'll have to agree with you on this one.

 

I did a sudden stop at a roundabout the other night because I thought the driver on the roundabout had made a sudden decision change and start indicating to cut across me. Nope, it was just his directional fog lamp coming on. More downsides than benefits to this particular "feature" I think.