invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Mrs6C]

30 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

it shows that a user or users have been in making changes to the system without fully understanding what they're doing.

Also that the data quality management process is somewhat lacking...

[dollywobbler]

TWC is an Invacar again. Thanks and well done!

[Zelandeth]

Well done...at least half of us can have the make shown properly - the other half are stuck with AC (Electric) on ours!

As I recall though that dates back to issues with the actual data from when it was digitised rather than anything recent and as such easily fixable though, doesn't it?

[LightBulbFun]

18 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have not actually had a response back to my latest head of complaints letter,

speak of the devil! I woke up just a little while ago to find a DVLA brown envelope on the floor, and would you look at that  

I think thats what they call "a fucking result!"

 I am very pleased I finally managed to get through to the right people who knew to themselves hand it off to the right people for the issue at hand and that they have been able to fix it, and I cant fault the DVLA's handling here, (although obviously it should of had to get to this point in the first place!) they apologised, and have even offered monetary compensation, , the I apology I expected, but not £50! 

and further pleased to read that yes they will also be fixing REV's record!  (ill obviously be keeping an eye on that) I was a little bit worried I would still have to chase that up, but hopefully not  

[adw1977]

Nice to see persistence pay off, literally!

I'm surprised that DVLA give out "consolatory" payments like that. 

[Marshall2810]

That's the new battery paid for 🙂

Great result @LightBulbFun 🎉

[beko1987]

That's the sort of brown envelope you want through your door 😂👌

[danthecapriman]

29 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

speak of the devil! I woke up just a little while ago to find a DVLA brown envelope on the floor, and would you look at that  

I think thats what they call "a fucking result!"

 I am very pleased I finally managed to get through to the right people who knew to themselves hand it off to the right people for the issue at hand and that they have been able to fix it, and I cant fault the DVLA's handling here, (although obviously it should of had to get to this point in the first place!) they apologised, and have even offered monetary compensation, , the I apology I expected, but not £50! 

and further pleased to read that yes they will also be fixing REV's record!  (ill obviously be keeping an eye on that) I was a little bit worried I would still have to chase that up, but hopefully not  

Nice result, and you got an unexpected £50 in your skyrocket! Well done😄

[barefoot]

Fuck me.

[Rust Collector]

Tell those bastards at the DVLA you’ll only accept a postal order! 🤣

Well done though mate, glad to see you managed to push through and get a result.

[jonathan_dyane]

Maybe ask them if they have any jobs going?

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Thing is, if you had made a mistake like the wrong address or mis spelled name or whatever on the documents you can be sure as shits brown they’d screw you for it. Why should they ignore obvious errors and inaccuracies on their own documents, especially after someone else has taken the time to bring that fact to their attention. And all it took was for someone to delete an ‘E’!

 

7 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

I can see why some seem to think it's insignificant or overly pedantic, but if someone had mucked about with the system and it suddenly started generating fines for non-payment of car tax to owners of historic vehicles, or vehicles on SORN, then I think the issue might become suddenly relevant to many on here...

this is exactly why I fought so hard to get it sorted, Yes there is my personal aspect of it, Invacar and Invacre *are* 2 completely separate entities/things and *should not* be confused, so its much more then "just" an E to me, but even that aside, even if it happened to a brand where it made less of a difference, say someone accidentally added an extra D to the end of "Ford" so it became "Fordd" there is still the simple principle of it that it should not happen in the first place, and then I became all the more determined when they tried to tell me "it had always been like that"

so I really appreciate that this is recognised on here by some that it is just just more then an E, that it was indicative of a systemic issue that needed handling, before it got out of hand

3 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Well done...at least half of us can have the make shown properly - the other half are stuck with AC (Electric) on ours!

As I recall though that dates back to issues with the actual data from when it was digitised rather than anything recent and as such easily fixable though, doesn't it?

the "AC (ELECTRIC)" issue is exactly the same issue just from 40 years prior!, its one of these reasons that when I saw this whole "INVACARE" thing happen I was like

"Oh no you dont fucking dare, Not this Again!!" as I got a strong sense of  Deja Moo (for when you have seen this bullshit before!) because this had happened with the  AC's Make code previously 

when the DVLA (or DVLC as it would of been back then) computer system was setup, the body code 08 was assigned "INVALID VEHICLE" (which is fun in itself because it predates the body code for "Tricycle" which is 09  so Invacars came before Reliants on the DVLA computer system!)  

and 3 make codes where setup for the 3 invalid vehicles still in serial production at that point in time "Z0" for "AC" ,  "Z5 " for "TIPPEN DELTA" and "ZA" for "INVACAR" 

 

this make code of "Z0" for AC also included all AC vehicles registered by AC Cars Ltd at Thames Ditton and any previous AC's on Buff logbooks 

 

BUT at some point in the mid to late 1980's someone had changed "Z0=AC" to "Z0=AC (ELECTRIC)" my litmus test for this is 1940PE, who's last logbook issued on the 8th Of December 1983, does survive and I have seen a picture of it, and as you can see although the DVLA checker reads "AC (ELECTRIC)" the actual V5 itself which would of been printed using the 1983 Lookup table of the time simply reads "AC" this proves to me that "Z0" did not always decode to "AC (ELECTRIC)" and that someone had fucked it up!

I often suspect that "AC (ELECTRIC)" comes from the fact that, AC produced an Electrically powered version of their metal bodied AC Acedes, known as the "AC Electric Invalid Tricycle" or Model 64 as per ministry speak

and I suspect that somehow, when someone was computerising or registering one of these Model 64's with the DVLC back in the 1980's, someone messed up the lookup table entry so it got changed from "Z0=AC" to "Z0=AC (ELECTRIC)"

and this in itself shows had bad this issue can be, because I have seen number of genuine AC Sports cars where the owners have seen "AC (ELECTRIC)" on their logbook and gone "but my AC Cobra has a massive V8 engine in it its not Electric!" and then they try and contact the DVLA to correct the issue, but  the vehicle just ends up getting pulled from the make code system, and will then no longer work properly with the many computer systems that rely on make codes

so yeah in theory, this "AC (ELECTRIC)" issue should be just as easily correctable as the whole Invacar thing, just change "Z0=AC (ELECTRIC)" back to "Z0=AC" as it was back in the 1970's early 1980's

 

*but* as you can see its much older issue, and my evidence for it, hinges on just 1 V5, sadly I dont have any pictures/scan of any 1970's or early 1980's logbooks for any other AC vehicle to help prove my point

and what further exacerbates this issue, is that, AC never went away, they got bought and sold many times, and did in one form or another continue to produce vehicles, so so at some point, the DVLA setup *another* Make code for AC! this time under the make code of GD!

so you can see how the DVLA have created an issue for themselves here, now AC's are registered across 2 different make codes, you have most of the Invalid Vehicles and a fair number of sports cars etc in "AC (ELECTRIC)" and then smaller number of invalid vehicles, and later sports cars (plus late registered/re-imported Thames Ditton AC's) under "AC" via the GD make code 

so they cant simply rename "AC (ELECTRIC)" back to "AC" well they could, but then would have to rename "AC" under "GD" to something else, otherwise they would have 2's AC's! (although they do have 2 Triumph's one "TRIUMPH" make code for the cars and one "TRIUMPH" make code for the Motorcycles ) 

 

and this is further why I wanted to sort out this whole Invacar make code issue, *before* the DVLA further fuck things up as they did with AC!

 

 

[BorniteIdentity]

Just so we're clear.  All the other cares are now cars, but yours isn't?

 

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Anyway, @LightBulbFun how’s the beast doing for gas mileage?? I bet she’s pretty frugal isn’t she?

not sure yet! I dont actually know for sure how much fuel she is using!

I have noticed the fuel gauge is either very non-linear or she is using a *lot* more fuel then anticipated LOL since after I filled up, the fuel gauge went to the top, but even after doing just 12 mile round trip, it was already reading half-way on the gauge, then after a couple more trips its dropped to 1/4 full, but the whole setup there is pretty DIY and I know that she has a later Veglia fuel sender fitted, but an original Smiths Fuel gauge still, so one of the things i'd like to try and do is fit an original Smiths fuel sender and see if that improves things (I think I should have her original somewhere!) I do have a later veglia fuel gauge I could fit to match with the sender, but I do quite prefer the asthestics/tyle of the original smiths gauge (plus its original to REV ) so I would like to try and change the sender rather then the gauge, but that will probably be sometime in the  spring or summer at the FoD! for now ill just keep an eye on the gauge see how it behaves and just compensate myself accordingly

but next time I do fill up, ill be sure to note the figures, and see if using the figures from the previous fill up if an MPG can be calculated  

[catsinthewelder]

@BorniteIdentity

It is a car but not in the correct channel for a car so have a care and play nice 😛

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Saw this elsewhere. TPA back in the day. Impressive it went from derelict spares car to roadgoing motor in a relatively short space of time. 

 

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

Just so we're clear.  All the other cares are now cars, but yours isn't?

not quite, REV shows up as an "INVACAR" on the DVLA 1st party checker, but not in the way that it should

the way that they went about doing this, was by removing REV from the coded system all together and assigning her the generic make code of "G9" which is the make code for makes that have no code, this then allows someone to enter a custom string into the make field, this is for handling of odd ball vehicles/niche vehicles/weird imports that have no codes on the DVLA computer system, this is also why such vehicles have the vehicle model in the make field as well since the make field is the only place one can enter a custom text string 

*but* the big problem with this, is that vehicles registered like this, will more often then not, not show up properly with the many 3rd party/online systems there are today, since most of those systems work with the coded system to know what the vehicle is

for example the Dart charge

but because they pulled REV from the coded system, its not recognised anymore

so now that they have fixed the Make code for INVACAR, I need them to put REV back into said make code for Invacar, so she shows up properly on all the online systems, which is especially imported for me here in London, where theres about a million and 1 road charging schemes of one kind or another! 

and me in London with REV is a fun problem in itself!, because a vehicle like a Model 70, that is to say an Invalid vehicle, is by way of being an invalid vehicle, exempt from a lot of road charging schemes like the Dart charge and the M6 toll road, *but* none of these online systems ever look at a vehicles body type when it comes to this, they only look at the taxation class, so if you have an Invalid Vehicle in the Historic Vehicle taxation class, it will will try and charge you for it! so I could put REV in the Disabled taxation class, but then the ULEZ exemption, again goes by taxation class, if vehicle is "HISTORIC VEHICLE" then its exempt, but otherwise if its in that tax class its not exempt, so if I put REV in the Disabled taxation class I would get ULEZ charged, so yeah you can see how people not properly paying attention to things, can cause a right clusterfuck! 

 

This does also extend to more then just Invacars, Motorcycles and 3 wheelers in general, are exempt from the Dart charge also, but again it only ever checks for taxation class, not the body type, so a vehicle in the Historic Vehicle taxation class shows as having to pay! 

the only thing I dont know is what would *actually* happen if you drove such a vehicle across the Dartford crossing? IE is the ANPR system working off the same system as the online payment system or is the ANPR system a bit smarter?

I suppose if @RayMK does not mind a trip out to London (and a potentially erroneous penalty charge) its something to try with his Reliant

[Dobloseven]

52 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Maybe ask them if they have any jobs going?

Or consultancy work!

[RayMK]

6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I suppose if @RayMK does not mind a trip out to London (and a potentially erroneous penalty charge) its something to try with his Reliant 

How can I put this diplomatically?     NO  😀.

I saw everything I wanted to see in London long before the current deterrents were introduced.  The Reliant and its decrepit owner can only be tempted out locally when  the stars are suitably aligned.  Have you seen a Microlino on the city streets yet?  Not sure that I'd want to fork out >£20K  and may not even manage to get in one, but it is one of very few electric cars that vaguely interest me.    

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, RayMK said:

How can I put this diplomatically?     NO  😀.

I saw everything I wanted to see in London long before the current deterrents were introduced.  The Reliant and its decrepit owner can only be tempted out locally when  the stars are suitably aligned.  Have you seen a Microlino on the city streets yet?  Not sure that I'd want to fork out >£20K  and may not even manage to get in one, but it is one of very few electric cars that vaguely interest me.    

hah! thought as much  thats kinda the problem, no one with a historic 3 wheeler or motorcycle wants to go into London/cross the dartford cross as is! LOL 

I have not seen a Microlino show up here or even Citroen Ami Electric yet sadly, tho I do keep my eyes peeled, so far the smallest thing around here has been REV! but I do recall seeing a surprising amount G-Wiz's about the place in the past when venturing into more Central-Central London, so perhaps I need to go deeper into the congestion charge zone  (which REV is thankfully exempt from via my blue badge) 

[garbaldy]

1 hour ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Maybe ask them if they have any jobs going?

Considering you can't even use online document change after 7pm  the chances of lbf getting a job with them to start after 6pm is pretty slim I would say 🤔 

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

or even Citroen Ami Electric yet sadly

You'd think, natural habitat, shirley - but I didn't see any when last in the big smoke.

[LightBulbFun]

10 hours ago, adw1977 said:

Nice to see persistence pay off, literally!

I'm surprised that DVLA give out "consolatory" payments like that. 

tbh neither did I! I never asked for anything like that in my letters, I just asked them to just please fix the issue! but I am not going to complain!

it does however feel like if there was ever an Autoshite themed game of Monopoly, it would be a chance card  "Win an argument with the DVLA over the correct spelling of Invacar, Receive £50" (that no one would believe you that it was based on a real event...)

[Zie]

Spotted while watching random youtube things. 

From here, 3:10 in. 

 

[LightBulbFun]

So after a few days rest, another tinkering session and run-around in REV was had  

main aim of the game was get the voltage regulator swapped out

for the new solid-state one

which I managed  but it was a fair old Pain in the back (literally) and that chassis tube was itself a PITA just as much as I feared, not only did I drop and lose a fastener, but I also discovered that the new regulator had mounting tabs being  then the older one meant said left side screw would bottom out on the chassis tube before tightening up, so I had to shim it up, thankfully I happened to have enough random gubbins in my bag to make a workable solution for both the lost nut and it bottoming out, tho at some point I think ill redo the mounting with wall new hardware, I also realised while mapping out how to wire things, that the fused line on REV might not actually be D+ as the schematics show it, and indeed, some probing about and tracing of the wiring loom showed  on REV the fused line is B+ and D+ is unfused, both being wired in red had me double checking to be sure and I am glad I did! 

I am please to report it does work! tho she wont charge really at idle, she is defo charging the moment ya get moving, and producing about 13.5V around the 20Mph mark.

I also I realised during all of this, while I was probing about with a voltmeter etc, that perhaps the old regulator was not doing quite as badly with the headlights on as I reported previously, since I realised, my Little USB and voltmeter thingy, is on the ignition switched circuit, the same one the headlights themselves are on, so I was actually measuring the voltage drop of that circuit  (in that with how that meter was wired in I was effectively probing the voltage at the headlights rather then that the battery) obviously about 8 amps of H4 bulbs is going to lead to some drop!

(I do have a headlamp relay kit/harness to fit, but the head lamp bowls are enclosed, so fitting it might take some finagling, but thats for another day, (as right now I am feeling quite broken and sore all over) but I am all the more curious now to see how much of a difference that will make  )

so even tho the voltmeter might report 11.something Volts, with the headlights on, at the battery/whats coming out of the Dynamo/regulator is a bit better than that, although I am still not 100% sure exactly how much better, but again I do know the new regulator is working, I have not made it any worse then previously at least  as an aside for those curious heres what the underside of the old one looked like

I then went for a shopping run to test things out and try and find Cadbury's Drinking chocolate, but sadly came up empty handed on that front (despite trying 3 completely different shops!), however REV performed without fault  even had someone come up to me and go "Thats an Invacar right?, Yeah I watch hubnut!" and then I sent an old lady down a nostalgia trip who came out of the shops and exclaimed most stereotypically "I have not seen one of those in forever!" thats always fun  

saw a Brand new Cash cow get unloaded 

to here

and although I could not find my preferred hot chocolate powder I did find a pre-face-lift Bedford CF for @eddyramrod  

and eventually I was home

all in all a pretty good day (apart from the lack of hot chocolate!) at some point I want to run a jumper wire directly from Battery positive to somewhere in the cabin I can monitor with a proper multimeter and see how it does as I drive along 

[jonathan_dyane]

Nice to see you making progress.

I don't think a dynostart even in top condition will ever have the capability to provide much charge at idle, certainly not with the lights on.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Nice to see you making progress.

I don't think a dynostart even in top condition will ever have the capability to provide much charge at idle, certainly not with the lights on.

yeah I certainly dont expect it to charge with the lights on, it doesn't even charge at idle with the lights off even with the new regulator  

 I just want to do some more measurements to get a better picture of things, because even with plenty-o-revs it looked like the voltage was pretty low, well so i thought until it was still quite low even with the new regulator and plenty-o-revs

then I realised after a bit of probing with a hand held meter, that in actuality with my little USB/voltmeter gauge wired up the way it is, really with it I am just measuring the voltage drop caused by the headlights along the wiring/switches etc and that to get a better picture i need to rig up a voltmeter directly to the battery to see if it at least it is getting a healthy voltage, so thats what im on about when I talk about charging/vooltages with the headlights on  

[beko1987]

My grandparents are missing the Cadbury drinking chocolate too. I'll add you to my 'keep an eye out for it' list 

[dollywobbler]

My cheap eBay voltmeter/USB tends to show 11.4v at idle, which shows the voltage drop and/or inaccuracy in the gauge. I use it more to check there is at least a rise in the numbers when I accelerate which suggests some charging is occurring.

 

[plasticvandan]

I would have thought wiring it in to a switched live (ignition circuit) would be more sensible? Easiest way to see exactly what's going on is to stick the meter directly on the battery terminals and give it a rev,so long as it goes up when revved,all good.other obvious way is if the lights.get brighter when you rev it.