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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, Model 70 survivors list on page 24, pre Model 70 AC and Invacar survivors lists on page 134 :)


LightBulbFun

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30 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Pleased it has been re-united Harry. Sorry I wasn't there, I was on a haulage rescue and had a lovely few hours bringing my friends 3 ton Ruston Procter steam tractor home behind my Fordson Major.

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Not a problem mate as much as I would have loved to stay and have a chin wag I had to leave pretty sharpish myself as I was needed to do a run to my local Recycling centre at 3.45 and got back just in time.

Seems like you had a good time with the steam tractor though! Looks epic.

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3 hours ago, Harriytait said:

Rear panel collected for MPU382J

Thanks to @AdgeCutler

Let the fabrication work begin 

PS: the tape isn't permanent, I was just seeing if the part of the original fin I found inside the car matched up with the panel and it did obviously.

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glad you got MPUs rear end at long last :) (theres a joke about saving someones arse in there somewhere LOL)

 

its a shame the rear end was further chopped off MPU like that

as the initial damage does not look to be all that bad and probably would of been relatively easily to patch up 

but at least it was cut relatively cleanly off so should not be too difficult to line it back up and fibreglass it back on

just make sure when you do fibre to account for any missing material lost when it was cut off, so dont just butt the 2 pieces up together directly, but leave a suitable gap to account for the missing fibreglass material that was lost when the cutting disk or what have you went through it

otherwise if you butt the piece right up you might find things dont line up suddenly etc

 

just something that @adam1db mentioned to me when we where talking about KPL's new body work and I figured id mention for you to keep in mind as its something that might not be immediately obvious otherwise :) 

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6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

glad you got MPUs rear end at long last :) (theres a joke about saving someones arse in there somewhere LOL)

 

its a shame the rear end was further chopped off MPU like that

as the initial damage does not look to be all that bad and probably would of been relatively easily to patch up 

but at least it was cut relatively cleanly off so should not be too difficult to line it back up and fibreglass it back on

just make sure when you do fibre to account for any missing material lost when it was cut off, so dont just butt the 2 pieces up together directly, but leave a suitable gap to account for the missing fibreglass material that was lost when the cutting disk or what have you went through it

otherwise if you butt the piece right up you might find things dont line up suddenly etc

 

just something that @adam1db mentioned to me when we where talking about KPL's new body work and I figured id mention for you to keep in mind as its something that might not be immediately obvious otherwise :) 

Thanks Dez, I'll be sure to remember that, I'm going to attempt a repair job in the coming weeks so will keep everyone posted, I've got a set of number plates in the post too.

When it comes to fibreglass I've never done anything like it before so will be a learning curve for sure, I'll consult YouTube first and patch a small hole in the back bottom corner as a test patch.

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in other news I got myself a new Toy I mean piece of vital test equipment

image.thumb.png.92adedcd3e49350e6ff9a4447d75900d.png

a Bench top variable DC power supply, 0-30V at a max of 10A, been meaning to get one for a few years now finally bit the bullet got one 

as they are very handy for powering up low voltage stuff as shown for example powering one of the Routemaster/Bus bulbs @Yoss kindly gave me a while back :) 

and obviously very handy for electronics work and the such like :) 

and fun for figuring which of my Automotive lamps are 12V or actually 13.8V, for example the Wotan p45t Halogen retrofit lamps @Mrs6C/@Six-cylinder kindly gave me a while back look to be rated at 12.0V (12V*5A=60W which matches the rating of this lamps high beam filament which is what I have lit in the photo)

image.thumb.png.f47086a884ab7c31232d5e293aefea66.png

but some Automotive lamps although they say "12V" thats more of a Nominal thing and are actually rated for 13.8V due to the higher system voltage when charging

so yeah very pleased to have one of these finally after putting it off for so long! its nothing fancy but it gets the Job done well :) (and yes I did take it apart to make sure it was relatively electrically safe given its a low end unit from china I got from amazon!)

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After a couple of weeks waiting for the paint sample to be analysed at a laboratory I was informed the formula was ready to go. I ordered some yesterday morning and it was today waiting for me on my return home from work. Craftmaster paints have now logged it in their system as Ministry of health Blue (they missed out the Ice bit), if anybody would like to order some. As of yet I haven't given it a stir but it was only made yesterday and looks to be a good match.

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9 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

After a couple of weeks waiting for the paint sample to be analysed at a laboratory I was informed the formula was ready to go. I ordered some yesterday morning and it was today waiting for me on my return home from work. Craftmaster paints have now logged it in their system as Ministry of health Blue (they missed out the Ice bit), if anybody would like to order some. As of yet I haven't given it a stir but it was only made yesterday and looks to be a good match.

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Oh cool! 

getting the colour right on Invacars and the such like is a "fun" game not helped by the fact that I think AC's and Invacar's where slightly different shades of blue-green from the factory

(which itself I think may have changed at some point in the 1960s, I know @Mrs6C's Invacar Mk12c looks a bit more green then later Mk12's I have seen for example)

and of course various vehicles will have themselves have been painted over time and or faded in the Sunlight etc

so I look forward to seeing how well it matches :) 

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24 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

in other news I got myself a new Toy I mean piece of vital test equipment

image.thumb.png.92adedcd3e49350e6ff9a4447d75900d.png

a Bench top variable DC power supply, 0-30V at a max of 10A, been meaning to get one for a few years now finally bit the bullet got one 

as they are very handy for powering up low voltage stuff as shown for example powering one of the Routemaster/Bus bulbs @Yoss kindly gave me a while back :) 

and obviously very handy for electronics work and the such like :) 

and fun for figuring which of my Automotive lamps are 12V or actually 13.8V, for example the Wotan p45t Halogen retrofit lamps @Mrs6C/@Six-cylinder kindly gave me a while back look to be rated at 12.0V (12V*5A=60W which matches the rating of this lamps high beam filament which is what I have lit in the photo)

image.thumb.png.f47086a884ab7c31232d5e293aefea66.png

but some Automotive lamps although they say "12V" thats more of a Nominal thing and are actually rated for 13.8V due to the higher system voltage when charging

so yeah very pleased to have one of these finally after putting it off for so long! its nothing fancy but it gets the Job done well :) (and yes I did take it apart to make sure it was relatively electrically safe given its a low end unit from china I got from amazon!)

That's good to know. All you need to do now is paint your ceiling Sung Yellow and you can have that authentic Routemaster atmosphere in your room. 

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10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

in other news I got myself a new Toy I mean piece of vital test equipment

image.thumb.png.92adedcd3e49350e6ff9a4447d75900d.png

a Bench top variable DC power supply, 0-30V at a max of 10A, been meaning to get one for a few years now finally bit the bullet got one 

as they are very handy for powering up low voltage stuff as shown for example powering one of the Routemaster/Bus bulbs @Yoss kindly gave me a while back :) 

and obviously very handy for electronics work and the such like :) 

and fun for figuring which of my Automotive lamps are 12V or actually 13.8V, for example the Wotan p45t Halogen retrofit lamps @Mrs6C/@Six-cylinder kindly gave me a while back look to be rated at 12.0V (12V*5A=60W which matches the rating of this lamps high beam filament which is what I have lit in the photo)

image.thumb.png.f47086a884ab7c31232d5e293aefea66.png

but some Automotive lamps although they say "12V" thats more of a Nominal thing and are actually rated for 13.8V due to the higher system voltage when charging

so yeah very pleased to have one of these finally after putting it off for so long! its nothing fancy but it gets the Job done well :) (and yes I did take it apart to make sure it was relatively electrically safe given its a low end unit from china I got from amazon!)

@LightBulbFun Can we have a better pic of the front please. If its the same as one we have at work, it has a peculiar way of setting the maximum current output. 

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6 hours ago, bobdisk said:

@LightBulbFun Can we have a better pic of the front please. If its the same as one we have at work, it has a peculiar way of setting the maximum current output. 

here you go :) 

image.thumb.png.96cb0dad5a50be35d5e58369fed374de.png

with one of the Soviet/Russian bulbs From @Zelandeth Lada :)

he kindly gave me a few of em 2 21W indicator bulbs and the smaller one above, after I mentioned in passing I had no soviet/russian lamps in the collection (I think I just got the 1 smaller bulb, at least I hope so or it means Iv already lost one!)  but these automotive bulbs they are quite funky, oh so very soviet in construction yet E marked etc, its weird to see these western approval marks on something of such soviet construction!

anyway im guessing the peculiar way you set the current on the ones at work is similar to this one where you set a small voltage say 5V then short the output leads together so it goes into constant current mode, and then set the current limit with the current adjust knobs then

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twas just doing some invacar sluething as you do and I came across this neat post :) 

https://www.facebook.com/SirusAutomotive/posts/4113316525356637

which explains how exactly the whole L plate thing worked back in the day, something I have been wondering about

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I knew the test was a motorcycle style test, but I was still not sure how exactly it worked with L plates before you passed your test, its interesting to hear there where driving lessons complete with instructor crammed in there!

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7 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Trouble is, Faceslap want you to log on to your account to see anything. I dont have one, and dont want one.

thats why I have screen-shotted the post in my post above, so those who very much understandably dont want anything to do with FB can still see it :) 

but if the text is a bit small/hard to read here it is quoted directly :)

Quote

The AC Model 70 Invacar. (Nicknamed THE NODDY CAR).
I have very fond memories of the AC Model 70 Invacar, this was a specialist car which some people in those days called an invalid carriage; it was designed and built for those with disabilities in the 1970’s. A lightweight one seater 3 wheeled car with a fibreglass body and a sliding door on each side, usually with tiller bar steering although one or two did have a steering wheel. Braking was quite easy you simply pressed down on the tiller bar motorcycle-style handlebar.

They were powered by 500cc air-cooled engines, some allegedly had a 600cc engines combined with a very smooth automatic, variomatic type belt-driven transmission, they could reach speeds of over 70 MPH with some disabled drivers claiming to have “allegedly” reached speeds of over 80 MPH. A good friend of mine, he got stopped for speeding in his model 70 on the A153, in-between Sleaford and Grantham in Lincolnshire, but got away with a friendly warning.
The earlier model Invacars, I understand had motorcycle engines fitted, so the model 70 was quite an improvement on the older model. 

Some people even had names for their model 70 like Jalopy, mine it was called the Noddy Car locally by many villagers. They were not the most stable of cars on the road in bad weather, despite the fact they didn’t have a radio fitted, they would most certainly “ROCK” and “ROLL” very well in windy weather conditions. Some model 70 drivers have described their past experiences from the 1970’s and early 1980’s has “TERRIFYING” but ”EXHILARATING” although they enjoyed the freedom of going out independently in their invacars.

The Model 70 was issued to disabled people in the days well before the launch of the Motorability/Mobility scheme. Certain people meeting a certain criteria would be issued with an Invacar, giving them far more freedom and independence. I was issued with mine about 6 months after losing out on an employment opportunity through having no transport just before my 18th birthday and very quickly put the L plates on it. 

There was no passenger seat, but the driver seat did slide sideways making transferring from a wheelchair much easier. You could also carry a folded up manual wheelchair at the side of the seat. 
Driving lessons were part the issuing agreement, so my driving instructor knelt in the tight wheelchair space at the side of me for the first few lessons, possibly not totally legal but there wasn’t really any other options. You could also drive on L plates without taking a test, which I did initially. The driving test was basically a motorcycle test; you circled around town and the driving examiner ran between street corners with his clipboard. 

I did about 40.000 miles in my little NODDY car without too many problems, although I did have one or two throttle cables break and recall using the choke to increase the engine revs so I could creep home very slowly on one occasion. 
Fond Memories of the AC Model 70 Invacar.
Dick Clarkson Young
Disability/Community Issues.

 

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been doing some internet sleuthing and uncovered a few neat pictures of a couple Model 70's I knew about but had few details on :) 

 

first of all is a couple more pictures of this Model 70 which I came across a while back on an web auction archive site

ac-invacar-model-70-microcar-bubble_360_6ca6433bfefb0ace18d43d44adfe25fa (1).jpg

and I think @dollywobbler will enjoy the picture! (especially since said Model 70 was apparently unearthed on a driveway somewhere in wales)

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with the poor front missing in the way it is, it looks like a Giant mini comtesse LOL, it was given its nose back thankfully! (It was clearly cut off cleanly I wonder if that was for recovery purposes or done for some other reason) sadly what became of it afterwards and what its ID is are sadly unknown

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and the second lot of pictures I came across is of a (I think Invacar) Model 70 in India, I knew about this one, but had very little in the way of details and no pictures, well now I have a few pictures but still not many details

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I do wonder if this one is JHJ548N which is the only other potentially surviving Private Invacar Model 70 I know of, but which sadly fell off the radar so to speak in 2008-2009 (its another machine I have no pictures of sadly, but the features of this Model 70 match with what JHJ548N would have had, ie a Mark B on 12 inch wheels etc )

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its interesting how various people  make do and mend with what they have on hand with regards to replacing the rear lights 

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its also interesting to see its got another gauge on the dash board of some kind I wonder which it is

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sadly I dont know the current status of the machine, I think it was last for sale in 2010 in Karnataka India, but what happen to it after then I dont know sadly

but im still happy to finally have found pictures of it :) 

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17 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Any updates on Rev LBF? 

the whole fuel tank situation is sadly still being a pain in the side! but otherwise adam does not seem to be worried about anything else he is very calm about it!

I thought perhaps he was waiting until KPL was done, but he was like "nah just trying to solve the fuel tank situation then we can crack on with it"

fuel tank otherwise, I get the distinct impression this is like getting a sledge hammer to crack a chestnut :) 

(I think Adam is trying his hardest to source some original factory/Ministry fuel tanks before resorting to fabricating something up)

 

 

in the meantime she is in good company tho :) I think hopefully she will finally be getting a wash in in the meantime! (at least I hope so!)

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its interesting how much paler she is compared to KPC and GTW (will be interesting to see if that changes at all when she is washed LOL)

there really is 50 shades of Invacar LOL

 

there is also the small problem of the fact I still dont have my licence

but things have been progressing there I have my 3rd test booked for the 21st of September

and driving lessons have been going very well with the new instructor, I actually feel like im improving and making progress rather then standing still

and im getting much more confident in my busy Dual carriage way lane changes and busy roundabout joining :) (which im very pleased about, as those had been an issue for me for a good while)

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That sounds positive, for sure. As you say, great news that Adam has taken the old girl under his wing. He certainly seems to crack on pretty rapidly once he's started. It'll be good all in good time I'm sure - it sounds like you could do with a bit of a delay in the meantime anyway. Great to see yours parked with the others too! 

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in other Invalid vehicle news

in my research to gather more information on the AC Cars Ltd, AC EPIC (Electrically powered indoor chair) MoH/DHSS Model 102 I Think, (research is very much still on going on this one, hence why I have not done a full write up on it yet)

Epic Model 103.png

 

I came across this neat article/web page on all things Harding invalid carriages :) 

https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1950-harding-rideinease-rotary-tricycle/

its very interesting see all the period adverts and catalog extracts

of note is this interesting Fitting form, interesting to see how manufacturers tried to fit their machines to a users disabilities/restrictions

1950_Harding_Rotary_Tricycle_02.thumb.jpeg.b6d9842d146604e4acc6f0eadbeb56af.jpeg

and this period advert, just because of also the All Days and Onions advert in the same page

1950_Harding_Rotary_Tricycle_01.thumb.jpeg.6b4623c5e41c4be5bd4b1736c90f8dd9.jpeg

as its not the first time Iv come across them and I find it amusing, how everything I seem to come across ends up in the company of something Invalid vehicle related LOL

On 13/08/2020 at 14:09, LightBulbFun said:

"ALLDAYS&ONIONS" did the DVLC clerk accidentally look at his or her lunch time crisps packet when registering this one then? LOL

 

image.thumb.png.a0f08c4f72cfd62884c4bcb6ae4096e9.png

 

On 13/08/2020 at 14:43, quicksilver said:

As unlikely as it may seem, Alldays & Onions was a real company formed by Mr Alldays and Mr Onions - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alldays_%26_Onions

There were all sorts of strangely-named small manufacturers in the early days of motoring, many of which didn't last beyond the 1920s. Lacoste et Battman is another that sticks in my mind. 

 

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Loving that Facebook post about Invacar happenings. Makes a change from the usual "THEY SHOULD GIVE THESE OUT TODAY NOT BMW 4X4S" and other drivel you usually get any time Invacars are mentioned. 

Fitting as well as the last time I drove TWC I'd had to limp back to the garage on the choke! Hoping to have her up and running again this week. Then perhaps we can get on with organising an Invacar meet. 

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2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Loving that Facebook post about Invacar happenings. Makes a change from the usual "THEY SHOULD GIVE THESE OUT TODAY NOT BMW 4X4S" and other drivel you usually get any time Invacars are mentioned. 

Yeah I always shake head at those, but those comments always also amuse me, because if only they knew just how hard I, as a Disabled person was trying to get on the road with an Invacar, to finally get some personal independent freedom of mobility 

it would probably break their minds a little bit :)

2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Fitting as well as the last time I drove TWC I'd had to limp back to the garage on the choke! Hoping to have her up and running again this week. Then perhaps we can get on with organising an Invacar meet. 

glad to hear theres a plan to get TWC back in action soon! I look forward to seeing/hearing more on it :) 

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in exciting Model 70's news 

(thats probably going to make @AdgeCutler go "Oh FFS!" Sorry!)

while talking to stuart just now and going over some dusty old Ministry paperwork together he came across the Ministry colour specifications that a 1970 Model 70 should be

and it gives an actual British standard 2660 (BS 2660) colour code! at long last we have an official Paint colour code for "Ministry blue"

"pigment shall be incorporated in the resin so that the final colour is to BS 2660, colour code 7 - 083 (light blue)."

and if you search BS 7-083 you do get a close colour called Ribbon blue

but its interesting how it has Light blue in brackets, is that just the ministry saying that it is light blue or are they saying Light blue is the name of the colour

although doing a quick search I dont think there is a BS 2660 colour called "Light Blue" so I think its just the ministry saying that BS 7-083 is a light blue sort of colour, rather then "Light blue" being its actual name

 

will be interesting to see if anyone here can get a sample and see how well it matches an existing machine :)  (and I will tag @Zelandeth and @adam1db given there are Model 70's in need of paint there!)

 

we also came across where the Ministry got the Model 70's exhaust/heat exchangers from :) (at least in 1970)

"combined heat exchanger/exhaust silencer unit (david worthington ltd serial number DW 100)"

its very interesting to hear it was a relatively off the shelf item

but sadly I cant find anything on that doing a brief search, im guessing the company went pop long ago sadly

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In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

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23 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

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ah awesome! glad to hear things on MPU are progressing :) 

I wonder on the fibreglassing front if it might be worth getting some other fibreglass objects of no value, that you can cut up then try and join together again with your kit

maybe see if you can get some damaged reliant body work of some kind or such to experiment with? so if something goes irreveserbly wrong its no big deal and you can get your technique down pat :) 

and that way your not doing trial and error on hard to get/replace body work like your Mk12 rear end,

 

a bit like how someone learning to weld would probably start out on joining random bits of scrap metal together, before making up and trying to weld new Sills into their project Austin Metro for example :) 

 

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47 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

In MPU news, re-fabrication work has started, unfortunately its not quite gone as hoped 'But it never does I surpose' the cardboard template i created has absorbed alot of the fibreglass resin leaving a thin layer of matting that's far too thin and soft to work properly, I'm going to try again using an aluminium mesh as a template in hopes of better results.

'Please ignore the mess of matting' it was my first go fibreglassing'

20210701_181331.jpg

20210701_181337.jpg

20210701_181345.jpg

I haven't been following this, so apologies if you know this already.  There is no harm in leaving the cardboard in place as a stiffener, and laminating all over inside and outside.  Obviously it has to be pretty close to the required profile and you end up with a rather thick panel, but that will happen anyway if you are finishing it off with filler.   Nobody will ever know, and it will be good and strong.  It is important to get good overlaps onto the old mouldings, preferably tapering the edges down to blend them in, so that the new panel is keyed in properly and actually sticks.   'Orrible mucky job but you are on the right lines.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

I haven't been following this, so apologies if you know this already.  There is no harm in leaving the cardboard in place as a stiffener, and laminating all over inside and outside.  Obviously it has to be pretty close to the required profile and you end up with a rather thick panel, but that will happen anyway if you are finishing it off with filler.   Nobody will ever know, and it will be good and strong.  It is important to get good overlaps onto the old mouldings, preferably tapering the edges down to blend them in, so that the new panel is keyed in properly and actually sticks.   'Orrible mucky job but you are on the right lines.

 

 

Thanks, that's really helpful advice it's all a learning experience for me and I appreciate the help. Same goes with your advice @LightBulbFunI'll have a look at my local Recycling center for some old glass fibre off cuts or what have you and have some good practice goes before attempting it on the panel again. 

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      Realised when looking for this that I really need to get some more photos of the thing...I use it often enough after all! We have a dog who's half husky, so this is a really good way of getting him some exercise.

      Finally - again, I really need to take more photos of - we have the little Pug 107.



      Included for the sake of variety even if it's a bit mainstream! First (and probably to be the only) new car I've bought, and has been a cracking little motor and has asked for very little in return for putting up with nearly three years of Oxford-Milton Keynes commuter traffic, before finally escaping that fate when my housemate moved to a new job. Now it doesn't do many miles and is my default car for "when I've managed to break everything else."

      I'll fill in some more details tomorrow - I warn you though that I do tend to ramble...
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