Sold Stanky's Geep - fire sale

[Asimo]

Condensor Often inside the distributor too.

 

Much easier to fit it to the coil, it's location is not important. It would connect to the same terminal as goes to the points, the body of the condensor must be earthed, I have always found it easy to do that by mounting it under the nut on the coil mounting clamp.

 

There may well be a (radio interference) suppressor capacitor mounted on the coil terminal that gets fed from the ignition switch. This is NOT part of how the ignition circuit works and cannot be substituted for the condensor as the voltage rating of a suppressor capacitor is far too low and it will fail very quickly even if it works initially as a condensor substitute.

 

(Note that capacitor and condensor are two words for exactly the same thing. It is just car talk convention to use the archaic word condensor in the context of these ignition circuits.)

[Stanky]

Minor update!

 

While there was still a bit of daylight I went out and played with the multimeter. I have 12.4v from the solenoid to the coil terminals (+ve and -ve) which is good. I checked the two ends of yellow & black and got continuity across them so I know they are the same wire.

 

Then my neighbour came home, I asked him to watch for a spark as I turned it over with a bit of metal stuck in the end of the king lead and hung close to clean metal on the manifold. He confirmed there was definitely a spark jumping from the king lead to the engine when cranking.

 

so this now suggests that maybe fuel isn't getting from the float bowl of the carb to the pistons does it not? If the king lead is sparking, and the rotor cap is rotating then a spark should be getting to the plugs, or would the condensor possibly foil this? I have a spare condensor and set of points in the garage if needed.

 

Its getting dark now so I'll need to wait for tomorrow or tuesday to see if I can find and replace the condensor. 

[mitsisigma01]

Just a thought..... wouldn't a Haynes for ANY Kent-engined Ford have a wiring diagram that would show you what needs to be running to and from the coil?  And where the other end/s need to be?

A Haynes manual that tells you something useful ????

Since when have they done that !!!

[Slowsilver]

Check the voltage on both the unknown and LT wires to earth with them not connected to the coil.

If it is a cold start coil one of them should have 12V on when the ignition is on and the other should have 12V on it only when the ignition switch is in the start position.

If so you need to connect them both to the + side of the coil and leave the - side connected to the points in the distributor.

The condenser is normally a small metal cylinder with a single screw mounting and a short piece of wire coming out of it with some kind of terminal on the end.

It is usually mounted either on the side of the distributor just below the cap with the wire entering the distributor and connecting to the points or on the points baseplate inside the distributor, under the cap.

 

Good luck and keep trying. You will get there in the end.

[mitsisigma01]

Forget Christmas get the feckin Geep sorted !!!

[Slowsilver]

If you get a spark at the king lead the condensor and points must be OK.

Try reconnecting the king lead to the centre of the distributor cap and test any one of the plug leads for a spark instead.

If you don't get a spark the problem is the rotor arm or distributor cap.

If you do, remove the spark plugs and connect each one at a time to its HT lead, clamp the plug body to earth, crank the engine and look for a spark at the plug electrode.

If all four plugs spark you have a fuel problem, although I thought you said in a previous post that the plugs were wet and smelled of petrol.

 

[Pillock]

so this now suggests that maybe fuel isn't getting from the float bowl of the carb to the pistons does it not? If the king lead is sparking, and the rotor cap is rotating then a spark should be getting to the plugs, or would the condensor possibly foil this? I have a spare condensor and set of points in the garage if needed.

 

Didn't you say the plugs were wet? That suggests fuel is getting in. Also I thought you said it coughed a few times but didn't catch - might it be flooded?

[Stanky]

I thought they were wet and smelled of pez, now I'm a bit less sure but could definitely flooded it from over-cranking. I'll see if I have time to have another go tomorrow or boxing day morning - the battery is on charge again now so will have to wait a bit til thats ready.

 

I might take the plugs out and give them a seeing to with sandpaper to clean them up.

[Mally]

Whilst you have the plugs out warm them on the gas ring if you have gas.

Two at a time and stick them in the engine fast. You will burn your fingers!

Then turn it over. They like being warm.

[Stanky]

Good shout - I'll try that tomorrow

[Zelandeth]

That was always necessary for getting the old Skodas at a mate's place going, they were sods for flooding.

 

Get the plugs glowing with a blowtorch to burn all the crud off them then stuff them back in as rapidly as possible, almost invariably resulted in the car starting.

 

Did you figure out where the fuel puddle next to the carb came from?

[Stanky]

I'll give it a shot - we have a gas cooker so I'll heat them up and whack them in the engine

 

re the puddle of fuel, no I didn't work out where ti came from actually - there was no more from overnight and the float bowl is still full (it has a glass window in it which is a godsend) so maybe it overfilled when I gravity-fed it? If i can get the car to run on the contents of the float bowl that will be enough to prove it works at least!

[richardmorris]

My first day at work in 1993 at 6am I had the spark plugs from my new 2cv in the oven! Just had 55miles to drive to get to work!

[PhilA]

First thing is if your battery is going flat after a few tries there's a good chance it's going to be a bit lazy. If there's anything I've found trying to get old engines to fire is to have them spinning over as fast as they can. Has the main benefit that gets heat from the compression into the cylinders, but that energy all has to come from the battery.

 

If you have spark at the king lead yeah, check at a plug lead. If you have the leads on in the wrong order it usually turns suck squeeze bang blow into pop sneeze fire-backwards grind. Modern HT electrical stuff is generally kinda crummy these days, bad distributor cap has been a non running cause on my car twice now. For tuppence ha'penny you should be able to get a cap and arm for this anyway.

 

Phil

[Stanky]

Battery is definitely a bit past it! I'm getting another, less knackered one from my Brother tomorrow so I'll try that instead, along with a set of baked spark plugs for dessert.

[spike60]

The Wiki ignition diagram that Asimo helpfully posted shows the usual 1-3-4-2 firing order, IIRC Ford Kents use 1-2-4-3.

[Stanky]

So 1, 2, 4, 3 front-to-back yes? Also which is position 1 on the dizzy cap so i can make sure they are in the right order? The chap did say he had it running about a year ago and the caps haven't been changed as far as I'm aware since then.

[spike60]

Yep, 1-2-4-3 with 1 being closest to the front. The Kent firing order used to throw a few folk back in the day. Lead position on the cap won't mean much anymore as the the distributor will have been taken out and refitted umpteen times down the years. It needs the rocker cover taking off so you can see when No1 should be firing and statically time the ignition from there. I 'm sure I can remember how if there but explaining another matter.... I'll see if I can dig any info out that may help.

[spike60]

If nothing has been changed since last ran timing and lead position should be ok.

Autodata  reckon front lead in the cap closest to engine should be No1 with the distrubutor turning anticlock wise.

For a random 1980 1300 X/F timing was 12deg btdc/1200 rpm with the vacuum pipe disconnected but that was probably for leaded fuel.

Edited December 25, 2017 by spike60

[Guest Hooli]

As long as it points at No1 lead when No1 should be firing it doesn't matter where the arm is in the dizzy.

 

 

ETA: I can't remember if these have a skew drive or a keyway for dizzy drive though. So it might matter after all.

[mat_the_cat]

I have a brand new come cone filter you can have for the cost of postage, if you have the clearance above the carb?

[Arthur Foxhake]

Interesting. ^

I've tried those but she still got pregnant

[Stanky]

I have a brand new come cone filter you can have for the cost of postage, if you have the clearance above the carb?

 

Excellent, that would be perfect - there is at least 3" clearance above the carb, as the old filter* was a sort of triangular pancake-type affair that was about that high.

 

PM incoming.

[spartacus]

I'm loving this thread. Suspense, comedy, an old kit car being rescued from a local giffer, it's got it all.

[Sheefag]

Er. Just a thought. The points are opening and closing aren't they?

[Roobarb]

Can't add much other than 'it ran fine a year ago' from the previous owner, might mean 'it did run at one point but I've messed with a ton of stuff since then that I can't work out what I did but it'll be your problem if you buy it'.

 

I would like to say I've got the T Shirt on that, but I've got the car actually, still sitting in my garage and further away than ever from being ready to try turning over!

 

Is it possible that the electrics are from the 1100 and have just been copied over? Would this be the same and the x-flow? Might be worth checking out.

[eddyramrod]

I'm loving this thread. Suspense, comedy, an old kit car being rescued from a local giffer, it's got it all.

Not quite.  Where's the pinup* lady*?

[DeeJay]

 

Hope you have a big stick ready for the fan club.

[Timewaster]

I'm reminded of my dad's Mk2 Escort.

One morning it simply refused to start. And the next morning and the next and so on.

Dad spent every evening outside tinkering for a fortnight.

Ignition parts replaced and replaced again. Points and timing checked and rechecked. Compression tests. Carb stripped and rebuilt. Easy Start and WD40 sprayed here there and everywhere. New plugs. Plugs under the grill,

Everything you could think of. Still nothing.

Then one evening he got in from work and started on another evenings tinkering and it started straight away and was never a problem again.

To this day we don't know what it was all about.

[bunglebus]

Is it possible that the electrics are from the 1100 and have just been copied over? Would this be the same and the x-flow? Might be worth checking out.

 

1100/1300/1600 are all essentially the same crossflow/kent engine so this should be fine.