Sold Stanky's Geep - fire sale

[meggersdog]

Oh, if you are brave enough.A thick screwdriver across the solenoid terminals will get the engine turning over.(ignition on obvs)

[danthecapriman]

No problem! The current points seem to work as they should - I think the issue may be further on than the points. I'll drop them back off at yours in the week.

 

So yes, spark at the points, spark at the king lead when operated manually. I can't tell if I have spark at the plugs yet, just waiting for a helper to arrive home now to see if I can test to see if there is a spark at the plugs now.

Don't worry about bringing the points back, I've got shit loads of them kicking about! I'm going electric ignition with the Capri too soon-ish so won't need them ever again! Just bin them if you cant use them.

 

If you remove the dizzy cap and rotor arm, turn the engine over and watch the the little cam on the inside of the dizzy. It should rotate with the engine turning over, the cam should push the heel of the points opening and closing them as it rotates.

Obviously if it doesn't rotate then the points will never operate and that means you have a problem with your distributor. Hence - no spark to the plugs.

I've seen one that'd chewed up its dizzy drive gear before which stopped the dizzy turning.

[Stanky]

OK, so the points were not adjusted up quite right and the rotation of the square drive on the dizzy wasn't opening the points as it went around.

 

I've now adjusted this so that the points open 15 thou as the dizzy turns and the cam lobes push on the plastic tab on the points as I turn the engine with a spanner.

 

With the dizzy cap & rotor arm back on its not firing still, so I'm off out to get the dizzy cap off and see if it rotates when the engine is cranked over. BRB

[Skizzer]

Fingers crossed.

 

It sounds a bit like the mystery issue I had with my XJ-S, which defied all my diagnostic efforts (and lots of new parts including 13 HT leads and the world's biggest distributor cap) and eventually turned out to be a snapped jack shaft, the thing that drives the rotor arm round off the crank. Hope it's not that.

[Stanky]

OK, with the dizzy cap and rotor arm off, when cranked over I get a spark at the points as they open and close with the lobes on the dizzy so that looks like its all in order.

 

With the dizzy cap back on and king lead off I get a spark against the manifold as it is cranked over.

 

So I think that we have spark as far as the dizzy cap/rotor arm. Next up I need to see if the spark makes it down an HT lead to the spark plug.

[Pillock]

This is proper exciting, I'm going to stock up on pasty products and just keep refreshing this thread. Rooting for you!

[Guest Hooli]

You'll probably need to set the static timing now before it'll run. Search back for my post on using a test lamp to do it.

[nigel bickle]

If you've the King lead sorted, it's the rotor arm or cap. Clean the brass tip of the rotor arm to shiny by rubbing it on a tyre sidewall. Cleans it up without scraping brass away.

Is there a carbon brush/ spring in the cap?

Clean the 4 brass tips in the cap with a small screwdriver or suchlike. Just get them a bit shiny.

 

It's a cross flow - it'll work.

[dollywobbler]

Ah, yes. Do check that carbon brush in the cap. I once managed to immobilise Mrs DW's Mini because I'd managed to snap that off when refitting the dizzy cap...

[meggersdog]

Is there a carbon brush/ spring in the cap?

 

this. Sometimes with taking the cap off and on the centre carbon brush can fall out.Sometimes it can just be stuck inside the cap.

Now there's a spark at the king lead won't be long before it's running. 

[danthecapriman]

What they said ^

 

If you've got the points gapped ok and a spark off the king lead your about there now. If it's sparking from the king lead but not at the plugs that doesn't leave much else that can be at fault, and they're all cheap and easy to get!

That carbon bit inside the dizzy (directly below the king lead terminal inside the caps centre) is probably worth checking.

[Datsuncog]

I doubt you'll need my tuppence worth, but throwing it out here anyway - many moons ago I replaced the entire ignition system on my HC Viva as part of a half-arsed restoration. Three months later it ground to a halt on a roundabout; would turn over but just wouldn't catch. After being towed home, and much dicking around with timing lights and multimeters, it transpired the new rotor arm had cracked, earthing back into the dizzy and preventing the spark reaching the plugs.

 

The crack really wasn't obvious when I had the component in my hand - I only noticed when I really stared at it hard on the dizzy mount. £3 for a new arm and we were away again.

 

I also had a bit of bother once with glazed plugs after the same car had been standing for a couple of years, but emery paper sorted that. Think you've already given the plugs a bit of a going over, though?

 

Anyway, hopefully wiser and more experienced heads than mine will be able to draw this episode to a successful conclusion. Rooting for you here!

[Timewaster]

I've known the locating peg on the inside of the rotor arm to snap off so the distributor turns but the rotor arm doesn't. Not at the right pace anyway.

 

I also recall a mate having acquired some sort of Midas years ago. Couldn't get that started for love or money.

Eventually someone spotted a heated rear window switch on the dash. There is no heated window.

Flick the switch and the fuel pump began to murmur and away she went.

[mitsisigma01]

More popcorn please love , it's getting exciting on the Geep pages

[Fabergé Greggs]

What a way to start the year.

 

There better be video of the first start.. get filming!

[danthecapriman]

It's quiet. Too quiet!

 

Either it's started or...

 

The suspense is killing me!

[Talbot]

I desperately wish I had a day to come and assist you in getting this badger running.  You appear to have every part of the system independantly operative, it just needs "stringing together".

 

One thing I would do to check this... Heave all the spark plugs out, use jump leads between the body of the spark plugs (as many as you can) and the engine block, and spin it over.  The spark should occur at roughly the same time as you get a spit of compression out of the spark plug hole, and the spark should be visible.  If you don't have this, then it will not run.

 

I suspect very much from reading though the previous few pages that you have an HT issue or a timing issue.  With both of those sorted, it should run.

 

Have you checked for tracking on the inside of the dizzy cap?  That's kept me immobile before now.

[Stanky]

Sorry for the delay! Hope you've not run out of popcorn yet!

 

Right, so I now have sparks everywhere. After cleaning and gapping the points I got a spark at the king lead. Then I checked each HT lead in turn with the pokey bit of metal - again, sparks issued from each of these in turn. Then I tried with each spark plug in turn - all of these also now produce a spark.

 

The order the leads are in is right - from #1 they go #2, #4, #3 in order anticlockwise which is the way the dizzy rotates.

 

So i now have spark and fuel - I noticed that after much turning over with a variety of batteries and by hand with a spanner on the crank pulley bolt the float bowl is now about 50% down on where it was, and none has pissed out anywhere visible, leading me to believe that the fuel is being delivered to the pistons with at least some air.

 

It is still resolutely refusing to fire and I ran out of charge in my batteries, as well as daylight, but I have definitely made progress today - we have spark where previously there was none and I reckon its just a case of using a better battery, or jumping it from a running car.

 

The next stage will need to wait for next weekend as I'm back to work tomorrow but It seems like we're getting closer. It is entirely possible that the fuel mix isn't right as its stone cold and was a wet day here. I put the choke on full the last time I cranked it over but it could be over/underfuelling potentially. I'll give it a crack with a barrel full of carb cleaner and a freshly charged battery on saturday morning.

 

To make up for this I have ordered a fuel cap to replace the plastic bag, bringing the total spent on this to a frankly eye-watering £22.00.

 

Oh, also both coils work fine, I tested each of them and they both produce sparks everywhere desired.

[mat_the_cat]

Just to highlight another possibility - you can sometimes get a spark when testing the plug out of the cylinder, but under compression it may not be sparking, if it has found an easier path such as coil or HT lead insulation breaking down. That caused a real head scratcher for me once, when I knew I was getting air, fuel, compression AND a spark, but not firing. I discovered the problem quite by accident by clipping a timing light pickup to no.1 HT lead, and no strobe. Pulled the plug out and rested it on the rocker cover, and the light was strobing away merrily!

 

Your air filter is sat here all packed up anyway, ready to go in the post tomorrow

[Timewaster]

Geep Monday morning misery...

 

Tuesday trial

 

Wednesday when will it go?

 

Thursday thinking....

 

Friday Fires!

 

Saturday Celebrate.

 

Sunday Smugness.

[Zelandeth]

Given where you are now, here's what I'd try next...

 

Fresh battery on. 

Prime the carb. 

Good blast of easy-start down the carb throat. 

Crank it on full throttle as though flooded.

 

With a bit of luck that will be sufficient to clear out any residual fuel sitting in the bores etc, with the easy start there if you've got anything resembling a spark at the plugs you should get something by way of life out of it.

[nigel bickle]

A little trick I use when recommissioning long dead motors is to warm the plugs. A couple of minutes on the hob to clean off deposits and warm through seems to aid initial fire up .

 

Seems to assist reluctant engines to fire.

 

An alternative us to bolt on an A frame, and take it for a drag! That'll make the bugger fire up!

[Zelandeth]

A little trick I use when recommissioning long dead motors is to warm the plugs. A couple of minutes on the hob to clean off deposits and warm through seems to aid initial fire up .

 

Seems to assist reluctant engines to fire.

 

An alternative us to bolt on an A frame, and take it for a drag! That'll make the bugger fire up!

 

They've already tried that I think, but then again we do now know that they've got a spark.  No harm in getting the plugs good and hot before trying what's suggested above too though!

 

I tend to find that a blowtorch and pliers to hold the plug result in less burned fingers than trying to use the oven/hob!

[alf892]

Have you static timed it just to check?

 

In the past I spent a very long time trying to start an old escort van (Mrs Alf's actually back when we met....) and I hadn't really got a clue what I was doing. Gave up and called out Father Alf who took about 30 seconds to tell me I had set it up with points just closing.....instead of opening because I got the direction of rotation wrong.

 

Very easy to do if you have checked something loads of times and can't see the wood for the trees.

 

I'd suggest that now you have sparks just run through such basics again once you've had some some off the job....probably worth nipping the rocker cover off just to confirm firing on number one. Very easy to check as when number 1 is firing the valves on 4 will be rocking.......one closing and one opening in quick succession

[Stanky]

I have tried this, but not 100% (or even 51% TBH) sure that spark was being delivered at the plugs at that point. I'll try heating up the electrodes on the gas cooker next saturday morning and see if we can't encourage some life out of the old thing!

 

Choke on or off? Would accelerator flat-to-the-floor with no choke work?

[Mally]

If it still fails I'd check the compression.

I bought an engine out of a car that hit a tree once, so I knew it ran.

Had blown the head gasket between 1 and 2 , 3 and 4, cylinders.

 

If you are using petrol from the tank, choke on.

Anything else I'd just spray in with no choke.

[dollywobbler]

I have tried this, but not 100% (or even 51% TBH) sure that spark was being delivered at the plugs at that point. I'll try heating up the electrodes on the gas cooker next saturday morning and see if we can't encourage some life out of the old thing!

 

Choke on or off? Would accelerator flat-to-the-floor with no choke work?

 

Full throttle runs the risk of flooding it. I'd go for a couple of pumps on the pedal and crank, with choke. Easy start might work, but I think it's kinder on the engine to let it try on petrol.

[Mally]

Who cares about being kind to the engine?

It's been taking the piss out of us for ages.

[DVee8]

You are going to phone in sick tomorrow arn't you,I have the rest of the week off can't wait till the weekend.. 

[drum]

Looking forward to this thing running tomorrow night.

 

We're all rooting for you stanky.