Zel's Motoring Adventures...Volvo, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 13/11.

[Zelandeth]

Yeah, I really need to get some updates rolled out.   Lada has been and gone, Activa doesn't exist, Saab has gone, Invacar isn't on there...so yeah, I'm a bit behind.  I've not even looked at the vintage tech section this decade.

The flashlight reviews section needs a huge disclaimer painted on it which reads "I started writing a load of this when I was like 15 and it shows!  This page is remaining place for historical interest only!" Reading half of that makes me cringe now.

I'm not really planning any huge changes to the format of the site itself though.  It does what it needs to.  The only thing I'd like to implement would be to allow text reflowing to make it more mobile friendly, but that involves a huge degree of redesigning behind the scenes and messing with things beyond my ken!

Yes...I learned how to write HTML in 1998, and that's about it.

I'm also hugely lazy and still use Frontpage to actually put the pages together because it's quick and actually does what it says on the tin.

 

[Zelandeth]

Nope...wipers worked until the first time they were switched off today then went on the blink again.

I'll need to pull the motor assembly apart for a service.  Reckon it's just an issue with a dodgy electrical contact somewhere so shouldn't be hard to sort.  Hopefully.

Though it is a Jaguar so all bets are off I guess!

Edit:

Wiper assembly is now off the car and inside so I can work on it tomorrow out of the weather.

Parts manual already making itself useful.

My money is on either the park switch or a sticky brush.

[Zelandeth]

Do need to find a better text editor for use on the Amstrad.  I'm not a huge fan of Tasword... inserting additional text is hugely clunky and it mangles the page formatting when it justifies things.  Can't remember if there's a version of WordPerfect that will run from a 720K floppy on an 8086 (well, it's an NEC V30 actually, but it's essentially an 8086 on steroids).  That might be an experiment for tomorrow evening.

May have just bought another thing off eBay.

First one with a plasma display (or amber VFD...either is another box ticked off so I'm happy with either), obviously has a display issue but hopefully that's just a failed transistor.

This bundle is already en route too.

Primarily for the Sharp which looks an interesting design to me.  Also a rather less battered companion for my Casio LC-826.

Yeah, I've got back into this blasted hobby again haven't I...

[SiC]

Brushes wearing out? I've had the brush holders fail on one of those motors before too.

[Zelandeth]

2 minutes ago, SiC said:

Brushes wearing out? I've had the brush holders fail on one of those motors before too.

I don't *think* so, as once they're going they run completely smoothly.  Unless they're using the third brush specifically for a start/park arrangement, which sounds like the sort of ridiculously overcomplicated thing Jag would do, and if there's a problem with that brush.

We'll see when I get the cover off the motor I guess!  Curious to see what I find.  Hopefully not a scene of devastation and carnage.

[LightBulbFun]

32 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

First one with a plasma display (or amber VFD...either is another box ticked off so I'm happy with either), obviously has a display issue but hopefully that's just a failed transistor.

oh that one is a bit funky, am quite interested to see what it uses at at first I thought it used numitrons! LOL

(tho tbh would not be surprised if it turned out to be a regular blue-green VFD with an orange filter over it or something)

[SiC]

6 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Unless they're using the third brush specifically for a start/park arrangement, which sounds like the sort of ridiculously overcomplicated thing Jag would do, and if there's a problem with that brush.

All the BL motors that I've pulled apart that look like that have the two brushes for different speeds (third being common)

[Zelandeth]

32 minutes ago, SiC said:

All the BL motors that I've pulled apart that look like that have the two brushes for different speeds (third being common)

Noted.  I've never pulled one apart before so will be a learning experience.

37 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

(tho tbh would not be surprised if it turned out to be a regular blue-green VFD with an orange filter over it or something)

Don't think so looking at the unlit digits... can't see any obvious colouration on the reflections.

Pretty sure I can just about make out the shadow of digit segments in there too.  We'll just have to wait and see.  The only data I've found at a quick glance for this model says it has an LED display which is patently wrong.  Also says it uses AA batteries rather than the C cells it obviously uses.

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Noted.  I've never pulled one apart before so will be a learning experience.

Don't think so looking at the unlit digits... can't see any obvious colouration on the reflections.

Pretty sure I can just about make out the shadow of digit segments in there too.  We'll just have to wait and see.  The only data I've found at a quick glance for this model says it has an LED display which is patently wrong.  Also says it uses AA batteries rather than the C cells it obviously uses.

interesting, looks like separate tubes

one of these? (the 8th/11 is the digit hight in Mm if it helps)

http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_zm1412.htm?lang=en

http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_mg17g.htm?lang=en

[Zelandeth]

Yeah, something along those lines, basically a single digit version of the Panaplax setup for all intents and purposes.  Don't think it's an amber VFD looking closer (aside from them being bloody rare), the digits don't look sharp enough.

A bit further digging while I should be eating dinner has tracked down some better info.

Linky here...

Which is a bit more useful, now I can see it's a K-80D rather then LE-802 as quoted in the as listing... showing neon discharge display which looks right.

[timolloyd]

Disappointed at lack of 8008135 content so far. 
 

I’m immature, I’ll get my coat. 

[Zelandeth]

No photos today as I was on the clock and it wouldn't be of interest anyway as all the locations have appeared before on here, but TPA has been out and about earning her keep today.  Including driving after dark in rush hour traffic.

No issues to report.  The difference in the overall feel of the car since I did the work to the distributor is hard to convey in words, but she really does feel like a different car in a lot of ways.  Even on the 70mph dual carriageways I was generally being held up by other traffic rather than being a rolling roadblock which you'd tend to expect.

Something very obvious that's changed is that since I changed the condenser and fettled the points, she hasn't "sneezed" once while driving.  That always used to happen at least a couple of times per trip before.

 

[egg]

You probably have it running better than when it was in government service to a disabled person to be honest.

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Including driving after dark in rush hour traffic.

that must have tripped someone up seeing an Invacar mingling in normal traffic like its accidentally driven through and popped out of a worm hole from 1983  

how do the Ring H4 head lights compare to the previous H4 units you had fitted before hand?

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

that must have tripped someone up seeing an Invacar mingling in normal traffic like its accidentally driven through and popped out of a worm hole from 1983  

how do the Ring H4 head lights compare to the previous H4 units you had fitted before hand?

Have to wonder how long it is till she pops up spotted somewhere.  The Xantia so far is the only one that's made a mention on groups on both Twitter and Facebook...and I thought it would be the least noticeable car I've owned in years!

Headlights seem to do the job, though I've not been on an unlit road yet so it's hard to really tell.  They definitely need adjustment though as they're way too low at the moment (I deliberately erred on the not blinding oncoming driver's side when setting them up).  Will need to get a tape measure and some sticky tape out to make a target on the garage door and adjust them properly.

They definitely visibly light the road in front of me though even in traffic under streetlights - more than can be said for the headlights in the Xantia which are bloody hopeless.

Looks like I've got my text editor quandary sorted.  A regular on one of the other forums I'm on suggested Borland Sprint as a good editor for resource limited machines.  Definitely seems decent so far.

Runs happily off a single 720K floppy and does exactly what you'd expect a text editor to.

Tasword would be fine I reckon if you were literally treating the machine like an electronic typewriter and just dumping the resulting file into a text printer.  It's basically useless if you want to take the text and import it into other software though.  It justifies the text by inserting double or triple spaces to evenly spread words over a line - and adds a carriage return at the end of each line.  So you end up having to spend a huge amount of time fixing that before you can do anything else with it in other software.

Sprint happily seems to spit out an absolutely bog standard text file.  Not sure what encoding it's using but my main PC seems to have auto detected it just fine.

Reckon that will be a good match for the Toshiba T3100e too.  It does run WordPerfect, but it takes a bloody age to load...and takes up rather a chunk of the 20mb hard drive. 

I'm still curious to know what it was that I used to run back in 1999/2000 on the T1200... hopefully when I get a working one back up and going I'll be able to find it on the hard disk and see what it was.  Sprint does feel very familiar though, so it may well be that!  I do recall *finding* a workable solution took me a while back then though...was before the days of WinWorld and similar abandonware archives which are absolute godsends to the likes of me these days!

Back in then if you suddenly discovered one of your Windows 3.11 install discs had a read error it was a real pain!  I distinctly remember having my folks driving me around for several hours until I found someone who had a set I could copy a spare from!

 

[LightBulbFun]

54 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Have to wonder how long it is till she pops up spotted somewhere.  The Xantia so far is the only one that's made a mention on groups on both Twitter and Facebook...and I thought it would be the least noticeable car I've owned in years!

Yeah im actually quite surprised in that I dont think she has been papped yet, given TWC and especially MPH have been papped several times

id have thought TPA would have been papped by now given how frequently she is in use now, its only a matter of time  (as a side I know a while back the Lada was papped and posted on one of the FB groups then posted here)

54 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Headlights seem to do the job, though I've not been on an unlit road yet so it's hard to really tell.  They definitely need adjustment though as they're way too low at the moment (I deliberately erred on the not blinding oncoming driver's side when setting them up).  Will need to get a tape measure and some sticky tape out to make a target on the garage door and adjust them properly.

They definitely visibly light the road in front of me though even in traffic under streetlights - more than can be said for the headlights in the Xantia which are bloody hopeless.

glad to hear the head lamps are working well, especially as they are the ones I have been eyeing up for REV  

(which I think checking just now have gone up in price I think... and have are nearly out of stock, I really need to do something and grab a set before they vanish, I feel a PM incoming to @Mrs6C as I know Dolly will need a pair, and even if only a pair for REV are being bought theres little sense in shipping them to my flat away from the cars etc!)

[Zelandeth]

Continuing the theme of "can you daily an Invacar in 2020?" TPA was out and about again today.

This evening it was time to do battle with the Jag's wiper assembly.

Breaks down into a surprisingly large number of bits.

Once we got into the motor itself it became pretty obvious that (exactly as I expected given the issues I'd had with the scuttle drains) that it had been sitting in water for a while.

Thankfully aside from the visible gunk you can see there the only evidence we had of this was a single very sticky brush...which would precisely have matched the symptoms that I was seeing.  The brushes have a bit of wear on them but look fine.  A little bit of cleaning and working of the sticky brush got it moving freely again.  The grease in here wasn't actually too bad, I honestly expected it to have turned into soapy plastic by now...might well be that someone has been in here before me.

Getting to the park switch would have involved removing the ring gear, and I didn't have to hand a small enough set of circlip pliers to get it out.  However testing it with a meter showed that it seems to be working fine anyway so I'm leaving it alone for now.

While it was a bit fiddly, didn't take long to get things put back together.

...At which point I stood up and heard something go "clink" onto the floor.

Which after a bit of head scratching (it doesn't seem to be shown in the parts manual diagram) I figured out was a thrust plate designed to take up endfloat in the motor shaft...so I had to take pretty much the whole lot back to pieces again.  Annoying.

Nevertheless...It's all back together now.

By this point it was too late in the evening to go and test it back on the car...but we'll leave that for tomorrow.

[Jikovron]

It just goes to show that some maintenance doesnt half make the difference with an ageing car, even newer vehicles appreciate it despite masking over issues more convincingly, nice save with the wiper motor! 

[Zelandeth]

Do the wipers now work?  Yes!

Do they now switch off?  No!

Guess I need to pull everything apart again to figure out what's up with the park switch...which worked perfectly when I checked it!

[SiC]

Kinda cute how the wiper motor and panel comes out complete like that. 

[Zelandeth]

6 hours ago, SiC said:

Kinda cute how the wiper motor and panel comes out complete like that. 

It would be nicer if Jag had trimmed the metal back by about 1/4" at the rear so it just listed out rather than being a logic puzzle requiring you to interlock the whole thing with the void there (especially when you don't know what shape the stuff attached to it is!) to get it out.

The grill isn't plastic either... it's die cast aluminium so weighs more than the whole wiper assembly on its own...so it's awkwardly heavy to get out while you're trying not to scratch the paint.

So we got back to fighting with this thing.

Pulled it apart... couldn't see anything obviously amiss.  Tested the park switch (and the lead from the motor to the plug that connects to the vehicle loom), working fine.

Reassembled, hooked it up (at least I just put together the bare minimum this time rather than rebuilding the whole lot!), still wouldn't shut off.

After EIGHT further cycles of dismantling, fiddling with and reassembly...

 

It was eight...I counted how many pairs of gloves I'd used!

Eventually I just lined everything up so it was absolutely bang central in the parked position, and I had the meter hooked up in continuity mode the whole time...so *knew* it was parked.

No idea...not sure if it's initially connected up in a non parked state is the relay logic they're using to control the whole mess gets out of sync or what... probably never will. 

Right, will get the whole assembly rebuilt and back on the car tomorrow when it's not tipping it down.

You have no idea how close that motor was to getting hurled into low earth orbit this afternoon!

The parking mechanism on this thing is ridiculous.  Most cars just have either a microswitch or hall effect sensor which detects when the wipers are in the parked position.  It triggers with each revolution, is just ignored until you turn things off.

No...Jag have a microswitch operated by a plunger which is depressed by a little metal prong on a ring which sits around the motor ring gear hub- however the rest position for it is far enough away that the switch isn't operated.  When you turn the wipers off it reverses the motor direction, which drives the aforementioned ring and prong up a ramp on the gear so it contacts the park switch.  This is why the wipers always change direction and complete one or two sweeps backwards before they stop when you turn them off. 

I might try to draw a diagram to help explain that at some point as a quick Google search didn't turn up any useful images.

Why they went with the whole "reverse direction triggered parking system" I'll never know.

In other news the latest addition to the collection of obsolete technology arrived today.

Aside from the one dead line on the display (which I'm guessing is probably a dead transistor which is responsible for that segment on all the digits via multiplexing) it's absolutely immaculate.

Definitely no VFD display here...these are proper neon display tubes.

Tried to better capture the colour of the display here, but it's always going to be a struggle with a digital camera.

The little battery gauge is a nice touch.

*Just about* qualifies as hand-held!

Yeah...maybe not.  Think "portable desktop" will be the stated form factor when I put together a page for it.  Weighs a tonne even without 4 C-cells fitted for power!

Definitely happy to have that one in the collection, especially for what I paid for it.  One of the rarer display technologies for sure, given things generally jumped pretty much from Nixies to VFDs/LEDs before LCD took over.  Seven segment neon was never widely used, and most examples I've seen have been Panaplax style setups using flat glass packages with multiple digits in one assembly... can't say I've seen a calculator with individual tubes for each digit like this before.  In VFD form yes, but not with this style.

[PhilA]

Would recommend MPSA42 (npn) or MPSA92 (pnp) for switching of neon.

 

Phil

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Would recommend MPSA42 (npn) or MPSA92 (pnp) for switching of neon.

 

Phil

ah the joys of soldering about a million of those in an nixie tube clock kit I was building with someone about 10 years ago and discovering you soldered one of the wrong ones in etc

I never did actually complete said nixie tube clock kit sadly, would love to have a bash at one, and I had one waiting at one point but traded it with a fellow collector for a 60W SLI/H lamp (which I then in the end sent/traded to a friend in the US, do wish I kept said 60W SLI/H lamp tbh!)

now that I have some much better soldering equipment, I really must have a bash at another kit (probably an IN12 based one as I have about 20 IN12B tubes kicking around as you do...)

31 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

In other news the latest addition to the collection of obsolete technology arrived today.

Aside from the one dead line on the display (which I'm guessing is probably a dead transistor which is responsible for that segment on all the digits via multiplexing) it's absolutely immaculate.

Definitely no VFD display here...these are proper neon display tubes.

Tried to better capture the colour of the display here, but it's always going to be a struggle with a digital camera.

The little battery gauge is a nice touch.

*Just about* qualifies as hand-held!

Yeah...maybe not.  Think "portable desktop" will be the stated form factor when I put together a page for it.  Weighs a tonne even without 4 C-cells fitted for power!

Definitely happy to have that one in the collection, especially for what I paid for it.  One of the rarer display technologies for sure, given things generally jumped pretty much from Nixies to VFDs/LEDs before LCD took over.  Seven segment neon was never widely used, and most examples I've seen have been Panaplax style setups using flat glass packages with multiple digits in one assembly... can't say I've seen a calculator with individual tubes for each digit like this before.  In VFD form yes, but not with this style.

thats very cool! also much larger then the pictures made it look hence why I was somewhat surprised when you first posted it to see what looked like individual tubes as they would have been very small (as I thought it was a hand held machine), but now it makes a lot more sense

looks like I was spot on with the tube type in the end  

 

On 13/12/2020 at 19:43, LightBulbFun said:

interesting, looks like separate tubes

one of these? (the 8th/11 is the digit hight in Mm if it helps)

http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_zm1412.htm?lang=en

http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_mg17g.htm?lang=en

 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

It would be nicer if Jag had trimmed the metal back by about 1/4" at the rear so it just listed out rather than being a logic puzzle requiring you to interlock the whole thing with the void there (especially when you don't know what shape the stuff attached to it is!) to get it out.

The grill isn't plastic either... it's die cast aluminium so weighs more than the whole wiper assembly on its own...so it's awkwardly heavy to get out while you're trying not to scratch the paint.

So we got back to fighting with this thing.

Pulled it apart... couldn't see anything obviously amiss.  Tested the park switch (and the lead from the motor to the plug that connects to the vehicle loom), working fine.

Reassembled, hooked it up (at least I just put together the bare minimum this time rather than rebuilding the whole lot!), still wouldn't shut off.

After EIGHT further cycles of dismantling, fiddling with and reassembly...

 

It was eight...I counted how many pairs of gloves I'd used!

Eventually I just lined everything up so it was absolutely bang central in the parked position, and I had the meter hooked up in continuity mode the whole time...so *knew* it was parked.

No idea...not sure if it's initially connected up in a non parked state is the relay logic they're using to control the whole mess gets out of sync or what... probably never will. 

Right, will get the whole assembly rebuilt and back on the car tomorrow when it's not tipping it down.

You have no idea how close that motor was to getting hurled into low earth orbit this afternoon!

The parking mechanism on this thing is ridiculous.  Most cars just have either a microswitch or hall effect sensor which detects when the wipers are in the parked position.  It triggers with each revolution, is just ignored until you turn things off.

No...Jag have a microswitch operated by a plunger which is depressed by a little metal prong on a ring which sits around the motor ring gear hub- however the rest position for it is far enough away that the switch isn't operated.  When you turn the wipers off it reverses the motor direction, which drives the aforementioned ring and prong up a ramp on the gear so it contacts the park switch.  This is why the wipers always change direction and complete one or two sweeps backwards before they stop when you turn them off. 

I might try to draw a diagram to help explain that at some point as a quick Google search didn't turn up any useful images.

Why they went with the whole "reverse direction triggered parking system" I'll never know.

im glad you finally got it sorted!

if it makes you feel any better I have been having my own mechanical battles, mainly with a Pre war? Hoover Dustette Model 100 (the dating sheet I have for these only goes back to 1946, but im pretty sure this one is even older then that, but I cant find any solid info on when the Dustette was introduced)

thats making all the unhappy noises it made when I first got it, despite me taking it completely to bits lubing bearings (and rewiring internally)

I think I know what I need to do to try and stop what I think is the fan running into the inside of the front housing (which is somehow figure out how to get the front plate off and add a couple more spacer washers to the front sleeve bearing)

but the thing is a bit of a bastard to take apart (only a few screws but you physically have to hammer the front plate off the end of the motor housing to get the armature out etc)

and iv had it apart so many times recently iv just put it to one side for now LOL (and im not sure whats causing the odd sound on the over run after you turn the motor off)

oh and while dealing with a slightly newer Jan-July 1960 Model 2614B Dustette I lost one of the handle screws much like how you lost that little end cap, except I never found the screw again, thankfully iv been able to borrow one of the screws from the aforementioned Pre war? Model 100, so I was actually able to put the 1960 machine back together and I was able to use it to finally give me room a well over due vacuuming for which its worked very well

(if your curious for more details head over to @beko1987's thread on the Open forum,  my fun with the Dustette starts around Page 70) 

[beko1987]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

im glad you finally got it sorted!

if it makes you feel any better I have been having my own mechanical battles, mainly with a Pre war? Hoover Dustette Model 100 (the dating sheet I have for these only goes back to 1946, but im pretty sure this one is even older then that, but I cant find any solid info on when the Dustette was introduced)

thats making all the unhappy noises it made when I first got it, despite me taking it completely to bits lubing bearings (and rewiring internally)

I think I know what I need to do to try and stop what I think is the fan running into the inside of the front housing (which is somehow figure out how to get the front plate off and add a couple more spacer washers to the front sleeve bearing)

but the thing is a bit of a bastard to take apart (only a few screws but you physically have to hammer the front plate off the end of the motor housing to get the armature out etc)

and iv had it apart so many times recently iv just put it to one side for now LOL (and im not sure whats causing the odd sound on the over run after you turn the motor off)

oh and while dealing with a slightly newer Jan-July 1960 Model 2614B Dustette I lost one of the handle screws much like how you lost that little end cap, except I never found the screw again, thankfully iv been able to borrow one of the screws from the aforementioned Pre war? Model 100, so I was actually able to put the 1960 machine back together and I was able to use it to finally give me room a well over due vacuuming for which its worked very well

(if your curious for more details head over to @beko1987's thread on the Open forum,  my fun with the Dustette starts around Page 70) 

Imagine your issue with 1, but with 4 or 5! I've got 2 handles to paint to get 2 big jobs finished but the weather is too crap now, and I can't paint indoors or I'll kill the bird/myself. 

[Mrs6C]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I lost one of the handle screws

Beg an old pair of tights off your Mum (or use a thin, stretchy sock) and pop it over the end of the working vacuum cleaner nozzle... then turn on the vacuum cleaner and go vacuum around the area where the lost item fell. You'll pick it up in due course, safely captured in the tights/sock. I'd suggest a strong magnet but with all your electronic stuff around, probably not such a good idea!

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

Beg an old pair of tights off your Mum (or use a thin, stretchy sock) and pop it over the end of the working vacuum cleaner nozzle... then turn on the vacuum cleaner and go vacuum around the area where the lost item fell. You'll pick it up in due course, safely captured in the tights/sock. I'd suggest a strong magnet but with all your electronic stuff around, probably not such a good idea!

funnily enough mum recommend I try that yesterday when I mentioned to her how I was able the suction with the hose and lance tool to pick up loose jiffy/anti-static bags off the floor without bending over  

but I already went over the floor with a strong magnet (kept well away from my hard drives etc as you say! although ironically said magnet came out of a hard drive) when I first noticed it missing and sadly did not find the screw

(although I did find the one missing screw driver bit from my screw driver set that I lost a couple years ago LOL and when vacuuming yesterday I found a Lost USB stick, so I seem to be finding everything i have lost bar the screw LOL)

I will make sure that when I empty the hoovers bag to rummage around in the muck incase it did get sucked into it without me noticing

(although id think id notice as its a fairly large screw and would make one hell of a racket as it strikes the fan, as the Dustette is a dirty fan machine, so all the dust and such goes through the fan)

 

I do think I have Identified what type of screw it is so I should be able to order up a pack of replacements 

im pretty sure its 3/16, (Initially I thought measuring the diameter with my callipers it was a 2BA screw I needed and ordered a pack but they dont fit, so 3/16th is the only other size that fits the diameter of said screw, and counting the threads just now show it to be 24 turns per inch, should have done that before ordering the 2BA screws, ah well ya live n learn!)

question is it BSW or UNC, Both my machine are British built ones so im leaning towards BSW, but Hoover was a US company...

heres a photo of the one remaining screw (both were the same type)

feels a bit like when we had to try and ID what the thread Model 70 wheel studs hub side used LOL

[bobdisk]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

im pretty sure its 3/16, (Initially I thought measuring the diameter with my callipers it was a 2BA screw I needed and ordered a pack but they dont fit, so 3/16th is the only other size that fits the diameter of said screw, and counting the threads just now show it to be 24 turns per inch, should have done that before ordering the 2BA screws, ah well ya live n learn!)

question is it BSW or UNC, Both my machine are British built ones so im leaning towards BSW, but Hoover was a US company...

Talking to old boys (older than me!) at work, some say that Hoover might have made their own screws, nuts & bolts (Like Black & Decker did), so contact Hoover's Technical help department to see. If thats true, none of the standard threads will fit.  

https://www.hoover.co.uk/en_GB/contact-us#:~:text=Service%2C Support %26 Spares&text=To book a repair by phone%2C call 03444 995599.&text=Alternatively%2C email us at spares.enquiry%40hoovercandy.com.

 

[beko1987]

Ha, hoovers technical department got shut down in 1993... The only knowledge out there is from people like us! 

But your right, probably bespoke made... It'll turn up though, screws have a habit of bouncing annoyingly

[somewhatfoolish]

The screw may not be ferrous, especially if made in-house; at that age it may be something exotic/obscure like British Brass or British Cycle thread just to confuse the issue.