Schaefft's Bargain Barge Extravaganza - Cheapy Citroen C6

[Schaefft]

3 hours ago, yes oui si said:

£400 e38 in Durham. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/6983490781674794/

Plenty money in breaking that. 

I guess I'll own my 6th 728i then😂 Let's see if it's still available.

[Schaefft]

No response from the guy selling the 728i in Durham. However there are other exciting news!

I managed to flash my ARS module!

This might not seem very exciting. However, it actually does mean two important things:

#1: I have finally confirmed to have everything I need to successfully code control modules to a modern-ish BMW. A big deal as the process of writing a Vin and flashing a module, while simple and often needed with these cars, is so poorly documented that I would have depended on others with more knowledge to guide me. Depending on others usually turned out to be the biggest hurdle to fix these cars unfortunately and asking for BMW coding help was no different. More research made me figure it out myself in the end. It was the budget diagnostics cable bricking the module during my previous attempts.

#2: With the module replaced one of the major blockers for getting an MOT has just been resolved.

The DSC is actually still acting up. However, one of the error sources has now been completely removed, I can finally move on to diagnosing the remaining issues and get rid of them one by one. Steering angle detection seems to be the next problem, nothing that should be too complicated to sort as it should be a rather well documented issue (unlike the errors I got before).

The rear seat airbag module also remains a big No for an MOT pass. Unfortunately this is partially due to my doing, unplugging the module with the battery still connected causes an error that cannot just be cleared by erasing the codes. Should hopefully be fairly well documented one at least.

With the DSC issues resolved I was finally able to return the car into a slightly more normal looking state:

Imagine having actual space for your legs again.

I won't be able to do much progress in the next 2 weeks due to holidays. Hopefully I will have most of the remaining issues sorted by the end of next month and can finally get it through an MOT.

[Dave_Q]

A pain to go through all the effort to work it out but must be very satisfying. 

I had a couple of coding issues in the past that I couldn't find any support for online, most recently on my last Vito which had a full xmas tree on the dashboard. 

I managed to figure out it was because it had the ignition switch replaced but not coded to match so eg the SRS/ABS lights was on because the wheelbase in the ignition switch was coded different to them.

The sort of problem where even most competent independent garages would probably charge you a load of diagnostic time and get no closer to finding the issue.

Did cost me £250 or so for a STAR clone to get there but at least I am mostly self sufficient for diagnostics/coding on it now.

[Schaefft]

Yeah, the fact that systems are so interconnected and specific to the car they were installed in adds an extra layer of complexity when it comes to fixing a car. I don't want to know how many cars got scrapped for relatively simple to diagnose issues because the job was more than just plugging in a replacement part (and therefore stupid expensive for 95% of owners). However, figure out what the process is (and the process usually isn't even complicated, the tools are just unintuitive to use and poorly documented) and it's not much harder than doing most diagnostic things on older cars. Once I get a little more used to it I would take this over measuring resistances and voltages of random cables and components any day of the week.

[Split_Pin]

On 23/07/2023 at 22:01, Schaefft said:

Well, that didnt take long. I've used the only 2h of not-absolutely-miserable weather of this summer* weekend to have a closer look at the boot. After removing the million trim panels covering everything I found this:

Somehow the ventilation ducts on both sides of the boot are leaking. The passenger side (top) doesn't have it's seal in place anymore, the other side is looking perfectly fine yet is also leaking. Its not even like they are perished or anything (I manage to rip one trying to remove it though).

No clue how that happened but I'm a little disappointed that stuff like this is actually an issue in the first place. With the slope of my drive and enough rain its pretty much clear now how water made its way into the backseat:

Fun times. Naturally BMW doesn't sell the seal separately. If anyone has a good tip on how to seal this in a relatively clean fashion please let me know.

Those are known as 'fart vents' and I have the same part in my Rover 75, in the same position. Like yours, they were allowing water ingress.

They  need to be removed first and they pull outwards so you'll need to take the bumper off. I sealed mine up with some clear silicone and they haven't leaked since.

[Schaefft]

1 minute ago, Split_Pin said:

Those are known as 'fart vents' and I have the same part in my Rover 75, in the same position. Like yours, they were allowing water ingress.

They  need to be removed first and they pull outwards so you'll need to take the bumper off. I sealed mine up with some clear silicone and they haven't leaked since.

I managed to pull them inwards (as intended on this one) which fortunately meant no removal of the rear bumper was necessary. I used some all purpose outdoor sealer and carefully reinstalled them. Seems to have done the trick. I'm not going to jinx myself saying that it's now leak free though!

[Split_Pin]

Just now, Schaefft said:

I managed to pull them inwards (as intended on this one) which fortunately meant no removal of the rear bumper was necessary. I used some all purpose outdoor sealer and carefully reinstalled them. Seems to have done the trick. I'm not going to jinx myself saying that it's now leak free though!

Mine have a BMW logo on them so Rover obviously took a sensible design and engineered in some awkwardness.  Glad you got them fixed.

[Schaefft]

A few minor updates on the E65. No more water inside the car after 2 weeks not being around, I think I can finally consider this fixed.

I've also managed to get rid of the last DSC related issues. I bought a new steering wheel control module (which includes the steering angle sensor) for around 30 quid. Turns out it might not have been an issue in the first place as I got the same error with the new module. In the end the steering angle calibration only had to be reset...

Airbag off. Similar to BMWs late 90s steering wheels its held in my two spring mounted tabs, fishing for these with a screwdriver was probably the hardest part of the whole job:

Steering wheel off. The stalks, switches, clock spring and control module are all integrated in one super neat package, so much better than what I've seen on several other, older cars. It's also all held in by just 3 easy to access screws.

The tracks the brushes are sliding around on. These and the brushes are usually the problem.

Some minor corrosion on the backside of the module. Probably would have cleaned up just fine but might as well replace considering parts are so cheap.

At least I learned a few more things about the car and have a few spares now. The column adjustment might work better as well now unless Im mistaken.

That leaves us with two remaining issues: The airbag light being triggered by the rear seat airbag control module (which is entirely deactivated, little info to be found how to fix it) and the parking brake (which apparently isn't MOT relevant if its yellow and working). If anyone can make any sense from the error shown here, please let me know. Despite being German it doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm also mentally preparing for Citroen XM ownership. I bought this book about the development of the car and its got a surprising amount of in-depth info about the suspension system aside from tons of other fascinating facts that lead to the car we love today.

I'm a big fan of books like these as they help give context to why these cars were so much more than just an quirky cheap banger back when they were new. The entire image of Citroen for next decade was hinging on what was a state of the art tech fest on 4 wheels at the time. If you are into the design processes of cars or just like the XM definitely give this one a read.

[Schaefft]

I blame all the enablers on here.

@outlaw118 posted a link to a 99p auction for a fairly clean looking R129 SL500 the other day. Naturally it was apparent that the car needed work but the fact there was no visible rust on the front wings, the car included the hardtop and stood on what appeared to be genuine SL55 AMG alloys peaked my interest. The car was also the more desireable (than older version) first facelift

Since the ad gave me a pretty good idea of what to expect and the seller actually left a phone number I thought why not send him a text...

A few days later and I just bought the cheapest R129 500SL I have probably ever seen come up for sale.😂 The seller was a top bloke, I was the first to call and was willing to pay his initial asking price. He honored the deal despite people offering a grand more and the auction clearly about to go over the agreed selling price.

The car arrived on Saturday so I've had a chance to look around it. What have we got then?

It's a 1996 SL500 in Rauchsilber (bit like a champagne/gold color, not the most common color for these), making this the first facelift with the updated bumpers and interior. Its still having the older style taillights and side mirrors however, unlike the later SL320 I tried to get back on the road last year (and failed).

Its standing on genuine R230 AMG wheels. I'm not sure if these will stick around for long, I think they don't look bad on an R129 and the wheels I really want are rare. They need tires and a refurb but even in this state they are probably worth close to a grand on their own. Originally it came on the classic 8-hole alloys my W140 is currently standing on. Original spare tire from 1996.

The interior has held up well, needs a clean but nothing seems broken or beat up. Will have to check if I can get a later steering wheel for it:

Automotive archeology is part of the fun with a new car. I'm already making some of my money back:

It even came with a solar charger:

The passenger side clearly received a poor quality respray at some point (as is standard) as the clearcoat is failing on the rear quarter. The front wing paint shows some strange reaction with the underlying layer as well.

As described in the ad the car has a bunch of lights on the dash. ABS and ESP lights are caused by the same problem, code C1011 "Voltage Supply Solenoid Valves" indicating a fault with the relay/fuse (probably not) or ESP module. The seller installed a new alternator, I wouldn't be surprised if that caused some electrical trouble before, possibly damaging the control module.

Engine bay is a mess as expected:

The car came with a bunch of history up until 2010ish. The last owner (once again from the that there London area) had it parked up in his garage for years. His son ended up trading it for an XR3 Fiesta to the seller I bought it from. While I'm waiting for another airbag module to arrive for the E65 I'll start investigating what might cause the ABS/ESP system to act up. I'm hoping that this will be a fairly simple fix compared to the electric nightmare of the last R129. That one made it back on the road eventually but I was just out of my depth there. This one at the first look looks like a much better candidate and with it being a 500 has very good potential to be a keeper.

[Schaefft]

Found where it lived in the last 14 years or so!

 

[TheOtherStu]

Ooh that's lovely.
Although Electrical gremlins are common in these (you know that - I'm not teaching my Granny to suck eggs). It's what really put me off having one when I was looking at replacing my MR2 a couple of years ago.

Plus despite having lots of horses, apparently they're not the best at handling, particularly in the wet.

[outlaw118]

 

Glad to be of assistance*

I enjoy spending other people's money - it means I can vicariously have some of the thrills of owning something without the fiscal risks!

[cort16]

Very nice.  These are great looking cars and an extra bonus with the hardtop.

Did you ever hear what happened to the nightmare one you had that you sold on?

[Schaefft]

7 minutes ago, cort16 said:

Very nice.  These are great looking cars and an extra bonus with the hardtop.

Did you ever hear what happened to the nightmare one you had that you sold on?

I haven't, the guy I sold it to had access to dealer level diagnostics through a mate. It still took them months to get it through an MOT as far as I can tell. I paid the same for that SL320 as I did for this 500 and this one seems to be in much better shape with barely more miles.

[Schaefft]

Had a closer look at the ESP control module as the diagnostics procedures indicate that this code can only really be triggered by the wiring or module itself:

No apparent damage to be found on the circuit board or the connectors. Which is good and bad news. Good that I might not have to fork out hundreds to get the module repaired/replaced, bad because the fault is clearly not obvious now. Guess I'll try and see if I can measure the voltage to the ABS pump tomorrow.

[Schaefft]

No photo update: Bit the bullet and bought a replacement ESP module on eBay, the only one with the part number I need available for sale. Unfortunately R129 parts are exactly the opposite of the E65 parts on the value scale. Measuring voltage at the pins of the module connector indicated that there's indeed no output from the module to the valve solenoids despite getting power. No faulty fuses as far as I could tell either, no relays that would cause a strangely specific issue like this. Earth works as intended, wiring looks perfectly normal and undisturbed.

Vacuumed half a metric ton of crap out of the engine bay took it around the estate for a drive, it actually seems to drive great despite the dry rotten tires! Fingers crossed the module, a wiper blade and a bonnet release cable is mostly what it'll take to get through an MOT. Probably not.

Also thanks to @maxxo for delivering a set of XM steelies today. The XM should arrive up North by next week, depending on how much I like it I might get some nice wheel trims for it, as God intended.

[Schaefft]

A few more minor updates. The replacement ESP module cured the ESP pump solenoid power supply issues, my old module must have had some failure thats just not easy to spot. That's big win, one step closer to MOT! I thought that would be the worst of it, only a steering angle sensor fault left at this point...

Not only did it turn out that Mercedes in all their wisdom torqued the steering wheel retaining bolt with the force of a thousand suns (above was attempt #1), making it almost impossible to remove the steering wheel. After succesfully completing this impossible feat the part number on the sensor revealed that its clearly one of Mercedes' earlier attempts of measuring the steering angle for an ESP system, which was quickly succeeded by a slightly different, non-interchangeable design, which makes it near impossible to find a replacement for remotely sensible money...

I'm hoping to find one from the very few eligible cars getting broken atm. Apparently some W210 did get this part number (00 054 264 18), you'd expect it to be fairly easily available because of that. It probably was one of the rarer option on E-Classes as early as 1996 though.

At least the wiper blade that arrived wasn't a struggle to find and install...

The 9 quid airbag satellite for the E65 arrived as well. As expected it didn't make a difference, the SIM module still disabled it anyway. Im pretty much running out of options at this point, I'll probably have a BMW specialist sort this one and the remaining parking brake fault once I've got the car insured next week. Hopefully that will eliminate some of the last remaining issues.

[GeordieInExile]

Did I just pass the XM on the M1...?!

[Schaefft]

18 minutes ago, GeordieInExile said:

Did I just pass the XM on the M1...?!

@catsinthewelder?

[catsinthewelder]

@GeordieInExile No, just at Chester services before heading over the M62.

We were following a black C6 earlier on the A49.

[gadgetgricey]

The Merc looks fantastic. Is that the phone over the centre air vents?
(Think I saw on Hoovies Garage if it is)

[Schaefft]

1 hour ago, gadgetgricey said:

The Merc looks fantastic. Is that the phone over the centre air vents?
(Think I saw on Hoovies Garage if it is)

Thats where it would sit indeed! This one didn't have the car telephone option box ticked though, there's no glovebox so having at least a little bit additional storage helps.

No major updates, everyone I contacted regarding the steering angle sensor and bothered answering didn't have one or will have a look tomorrow. I've used an hour of my time today to make a start at cleaning the engine bay though, much better now that a decade of dirt is gone.

I've also bought a replacement indicator unit as one has a crack. I'm going with the US-market style indicators, they should look pretty decent in combination with this color hopefully:

In other news, a mate of mine has decided to buy the Lexus GS300. Its probably the best car I own and does everything you could ever ask from it perfectly. I need the space badly however, it would be fairly easy to find another one and the E65 in some ways already is a replacement for it (despite lacking some of the Lexus' amazing features). Like the green flip E38 earlier this year it'll live in Leith and receive all the TLC it'll deserve so I'm really not too sad about it.

[loserone]

On 21/08/2023 at 11:30, Schaefft said:

I blame all the enablers on here.

Look at the smile on your face as you discuss the relative brokenness of the sunroof on your second french car

[Schaefft]

Just now, loserone said:

Look at the smile on your face as you discuss the relative brokenness of the sunroof on your second french car

I'm impressed with the interior so far, plenty more to find out about over the next few weeks!

And yes, this means the ex @HMC XM has finally arrived! It'll take a little while before I get the chance to have a proper look at it but the 10min drive from the pub appealed already!

[Jerzy Woking]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:38 PM, Schaefft said:

In other news, a mate of mine has decided to buy the Lexus GS300. Its probably the best car I own and does everything you could ever ask from it perfectly. I need the space badly however, it would be fairly easy to find another one and the E65 in some ways already is a replacement for it (despite lacking some of the Lexus' amazing features). Like the green flip E38 earlier this year it'll live in Leith and receive all the TLC it'll deserve so I'm really not too sad about it.

Pleased the GS will continue to be well looked after. It was only in my care for a couple of days, but I really liked it, and if I could have kept it, I would have. 

It lives on. Look forward to the XM reports, as my neighbour has one, which is in outstanding condition following his restoration of it.

[Schaefft]

As mentioned above, the XM arrived this week, yesterday was the first time I could have a proper look around it. Why not do a little tour!

As one can see, the Hydractive suspension sags a little after being parked up. This would indicate an issue most likely with one of the spheres leaking. However, since the XM actually looks amazing slammed to the ground I can't actually see a problem with this! The suspension does rise to max level as well, I wouldn't necessarily recommend driving it like that for long distances though (as me how I know).

One of the biggest pluses the XM has over my other cars is that its actually a very practical, large hatchback design with a proper fold-down back seat, as demonstrated here. After selling the A6 Avant earlier this year this is badly needed. Unfortunately the hatch strut is missing right now, and this is easily the heaviest hatch I've ever lifted. A new strut will be ordered while I'm in Germany. Also on display, the internal window intended to keep the draft out, available on higher trim models.

Loving the Chevronic sticker. As some will know, HMC bought the car directly from them. They haven't really done anything on the car before the sale, it did however come with a comprehensive file of service history showing that the 1st owner (possibly 2nd, have to sort through it all) genuinely took great care of the car, despite not putting on huge miles over the years.

I think I actually prefer the rear end of the XM over the front. It just has this 10/10 late 80s fastback/grand tourer vibe when seen from the back. Bonus E65 for extra avantgarde rear ends.

The wraparound band of windows is another popular styling feature of the time, this facelift actually didnt receive the blacked-out wing mirrors and wiper cowl stripe which would accentuate it even more.

No clue what happened to the grille,  theres this mesh attached to the back of the nose cone. I'd actually prefer the pre-fl asymmetrical variant of the front fascia, I'll have to see whether I can be bothered to fix what I got or replace entirely.

The huge aerial really dates the design, most radio antennas were integrated into the rear window by 1997 on cars of this class.

The alloys are part of the Exclusive package. They look good, however with such amazing wheel trim designs available they will probably get replaced soon.

Talking about exclusive, all but one badge are missing on the vehicle unfortunately:

Nothing too exciting under the bonnet, this is still the PRV 3.0 V6 the XM received from the beginning. Even without 4 valves per cylinder it goes surprisingly well.

Another highlight for me is the black leather interior. Not only does it look incredibly luxurious and comfy, it also feels that way once you take a seat. The facelift received a more conventional dash and steering wheel. Unfortunately replacing the steering wheel with an older single spoke design is causing more issues than its worth.

Super comfy back seat as well. Things generally held up well in here, a few pieces of trim will need replacing, nothing wild though.

Can't go without an ashtray in the back, I'm quite impressed you could get heated rear seats in an XM however!

The completely blacked-out headliner is another big surprise. You'd pay quite a bit extra to get this in a BMW of the time, even with the black leather option box ticked!

In general the interior feels surprisingly spacious, the sunroof will help but credit to Citroen for making this feel like a roomy big car interior.

Button overload on the center console. I'll have to replace the keypad bezel as the flap for it won't stay in place anymore. Certainly an interesting feature to have. The shifter desintegrated unfortunately, maybe not a huge issue considering the rubberized material feels like a sticky mess (not even close to the softcoat insanity in the Alfa 166 though). The radio was donated by Mr. Catsinthewelder. I still have a freshly rebuild spare Grundig radio out of my Senator B I might try in this. Since I'd love to get the steering wheel controls to work getting a code for the Citroen unit might be unavoidable though.

Despite the passenger airbag Citroen still managed to integrate a deep glovebox, unlike Mercedes in the SL...

All in all impressions are very positive so far. I've yet got to get it up to motorway speeds. There's no doubt that this rather complex executive tourer will need some TLC here and there over the next few months, it certainly would benefit from it cosmetically. I'm looking forward to driving it more though, which is always a good sign.

[Schaefft]

In other news, the E65 was booked in for an MOT check today. This was actually my first proper drive in it, and boy does it drive well. Despite all of its issues the N62 is a fantastic engine when it's running well, with subdued V8 sound and tons of power. It will need a few more things sorting, the airbag light and parking brake being the main issues still, both of which I might just have a specialist deal with (if they have time/can be bothered anyway). I'm also getting a few engine management related codes I still need to diagnose properly, no doubt being related to it standing for years.

Things are looking promising though, the exhaust leak only being caused by a few missing nuts (literally dissolved) and the driver seat working again after cleaning up the circuit board (which unbelievably was still wet when I pulled it out).

If things go smoothly I'll receive a complete parts car next Tuesday which will hopefully supply a clean interior and any remaining bits I might need to get it back on the road.

[wesacosa]

31 minutes ago, Schaefft said:

As mentioned above, the XM arrived this week, yesterday was the first time I could have a proper look around it. Why not do a little tour!

As one can see, the Hydractive suspension sags a little after being parked up. This would indicate an issue most likely with one of the spheres leaking. However, since the XM actually looks amazing slammed to the ground I can't actually see a problem with this! The suspension does rise to max level as well, I wouldn't necessarily recommend driving it like that for long distances though (as me how I know).

One of the biggest pluses the XM has over my other cars is that its actually a very practical, large hatchback design with a proper fold-down back seat, as demonstrated here. After selling the A6 Avant earlier this year this is badly needed. Unfortunately the hatch strut is missing right now, and this is easily the heaviest hatch I've ever lifted. A new strut will be ordered while I'm in Germany. Also on display, the internal window intended to keep the draft out, available on higher trim models.

Loving the Chevronic sticker. As some will know, HMC bought the car directly from them. They haven't really done anything on the car before the sale, it did however come with a comprehensive file of service history showing that the 1st owner (possibly 2nd, have to sort through it all) genuinely took great care of the car, despite not putting on huge miles over the years.

I think I actually prefer the rear end of the XM over the front. It just has this 10/10 late 80s fastback/grand tourer vibe when seen from the back. Bonus E65 for extra avantgarde rear ends.

The wraparound band of windows is another popular styling feature of the time, this facelift actually didnt receive the blacked-out wing mirrors and wiper cowl stripe which would accentuate it even more.

No clue what happened to the grille,  theres this mesh attached to the back of the nose cone. I'd actually prefer the pre-fl asymmetrical variant of the front fascia, I'll have to see whether I can be bothered to fix what I got or replace entirely.

The huge aerial really dates the design, most radio antennas were integrated into the rear window by 1997 on cars of this class.

The alloys are part of the Exclusive package. They look good, however with such amazing wheel trim designs available they will probably get replaced soon.

Talking about exclusive, all but one badge are missing on the vehicle unfortunately:

Nothing too exciting under the bonnet, this is still the PRV 3.0 V6 the XM received from the beginning. Even without 4 valves per cylinder it goes surprisingly well.

Another highlight for me is the black leather interior. Not only does it look incredibly luxurious and comfy, it also feels that way once you take a seat. The facelift received a more conventional dash and steering wheel. Unfortunately replacing the steering wheel with an older single spoke design is causing more issues than its worth.

Super comfy back seat as well. Things generally held up well in here, a few pieces of trim will need replacing, nothing wild though.

Can't go without an ashtray in the back, I'm quite impressed you could get heated rear seats in an XM however!

The completely blacked-out headliner is another big surprise. You'd pay quite a bit extra to get this in a BMW of the time, even with the black leather option box ticked!

In general the interior feels surprisingly spacious, the sunroof will help but credit to Citroen for making this feel like a roomy big car interior.

Button overload on the center console. I'll have to replace the keypad bezel as the flap for it won't stay in place anymore. Certainly an interesting feature to have. The shifter desintegrated unfortunately, maybe not a huge issue considering the rubberized material feels like a sticky mess (not even close to the softcoat insanity in the Alfa 166 though). The radio was donated by Mr. Catsinthewelder. I still have a freshly rebuild spare Grundig radio out of my Senator B I might try in this. Since I'd love to get the steering wheel controls to work getting a code for the Citroen unit might be unavoidable though.

Despite the passenger airbag Citroen still managed to integrate a deep glovebox, unlike Mercedes in the SL...

All in all impressions are very positive so far. I've yet got to get it up to motorway speeds. There's no doubt that this rather complex executive tourer will need some TLC here and there over the next few months, it certainly would benefit from it cosmetically. I'm looking forward to driving it more though, which is always a good sign.

A non sinker XM dropping at the back is often the brake doseur valve leaking back to the tank or an internal leak in one of the dampers, you can apparently check by pulling off the return pipes to the tank and seeing which one has increased flow . I was told on mine so long as it's all ok when running and if the brakes keep working after you turn the engine off it's nothing to worry about. In fact it means all the linkages get some movement which keeps them from seizing if the suspension never changes height!

would recommend joining the excellent club-xm forum if you haven't already 

[Schaefft]

7 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

A non sinker XM dropping at the back is often the brake doseur valve leaking back to the tank or an internal leak in one of the dampers, you can apparently check by pulling off the return pipes to the tank and seeing which one has increased flow . I was told on mine so long as it's all ok when running and if the brakes keep working after you turn the engine off it's nothing to worry about. In fact it means all the linkages get some movement which keeps them from seizing if the suspension never changes height!

would recommend joining the excellent club-xm forum if you haven't already 

Thanks for the excellent info, I think I will need all the help from people on here that I can get with this one. Will definitely consider joining the forum as well! But indeed, so far I'm not interpreting this as a problem, any clue if it could have an effect on ride quality?

[HMC]

Loving the XM tour. I really liked the interior, somehow it even smelled special!