Dave's shonkers - another one out

[Split_Pin]

Found it:

https://www.blingstrom.com/modmondays-fxt-1/2020/1/5/ngk-counterfeit-spark-plugs-how-to-tell-the-difference-ilfr6b-6481

[AndyIggs]

8 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

I'm out my depth on VAG stuff as its all still quite new to me but let me find a link that @AndyIggs posted up on how to identify rogue items.

 

https://www.blingstrom.com/modmondays-fxt-1/2020/1/5/ngk-counterfeit-spark-plugs-how-to-tell-the-difference-ilfr6b-6481

Hope this helps, the biggest giveaway was the box, I'm guessing you won't have this though Dave

[AndyIggs]

8 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Found it:

https://www.blingstrom.com/modmondays-fxt-1/2020/1/5/ngk-counterfeit-spark-plugs-how-to-tell-the-difference-ilfr6b-6481

sorry Iain, I completely scrolled past your comment above

[Dave_Q]

Time for another thrilling installment of:

I checked the plugs a bit more closely, they all look good TBH and not fake. All a similar sort of colour and not oily or fuely which must be a good sign. 

Another suggestion from the S3 group was the coil pack wiring loom, I opened it up and couldn't see anything amiss. 

I started trying to compression test but it was a bit inconclusive as the battery wasn't turning it over fast enough. 

On a first pass I got 135psi on cyl 1 and 150-160 on the others but then another try on 1 got me 145. 

I've put the battery on charge to have another go tomorrow. Lightening started happening which stopped me doing anything else tonight.

[Dave_Q]

Compression test, now with video as I roped in a child to help. 

 

 

 

 

 

Interested in any feedback on these, cylinder 1 the highest achieved was 140 but it dropped back to more like 125. Cylinder 2 I'd say 160, 3 is 150, 4 160, and a repeat of one with a teaspoon of oil down it didn't make a difference. 

I also had a look at the cams and it's not great.

. 

Hard to picture but the inlet cam is definitely pitted, I can't really feel it with my finger but maybe it's enough to affect compression? Again you can barely make it out but it does look like the rollers on 1 and maybe 2 are also pitted in places, maybe when the damage lines up right the valves don't open quite as fully on that cylinder? The compression test for cylinder 1 goes up to 140 psi but then down again which is bad, if all is well it should keep getting higher with subsequent cycles?

I don't think I can leave this having seen it, I'll start shopping for an inlet cam and a set of rockers. I am just slightly concerned that even after that I could still have issues?

Any thoughts welcome.

[Mr Pastry]

Valve clearances?

[Dave_Q]

12 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Valve clearances?

Apparently not adjustable as it's hydraulic lifters and roller followers?

[320touring]

Yo, Dave!

Deffo sounds like a potential compression issue on the #1. 

Does it burn any oil? Does the compression improve in #1 if you put some oil down the spark plug hole? If the compression improves with the oil in the bore it could be ring related.

I looked up the initial compression results from the Oxford

The poor compression in #3 turned out to be valve clearances (lack thereof on the exhaust valve) meaning the cyl never sealed correctly.

I **THINK** that if the cam was pitted/worn that would mean the valves would not open as far - would this mean that the cyl can't pull in the same volume of air?

[Dave_Q]

Yes I did try some oil down #1 and it didn't make a difference although I may not have put enough down.

I've not really had it long enough to know if it's using oil although they are pretty famous for it.

I was fairly confident the inlet valves were sealing as I poured carb cleaner down the ports when doing the carbon clean and it didn't leak through but who knows.

I guess that the damage to the cam could work both ways, if there are raised bits as a result of the pitting on the "closed" side of the lobe it could stop it sealing fully? As well as not opening fully which would also restrict compression due to getting less air in?

No idea really but I do know that the cam isn't right and it's only going to get worse from here with time so seems sensible to change it even if I'm not 100% convinced it will fully resolve the issue.

[Mr Pastry]

That amount of pitting isn't going to make much difference to anything. 

A cam which is very badly worn on the nose will reduce the valve lift and retard the timing, but these will be minor effects and will not affect the compression very much.  Yes the cam is on the way out, but not at that stage. 

If oil in the bores has made no difference, then it's a valve or head gasket problem. 

Exhaust valves are more likely to be burnt than inlets.

 

[Dave_Q]

I suppose I could try a leak down test on cyl 1 to see if it's leaking through the exhaust valves? I left it with the 125psi in after the compression test and the gauge didn't drop but I don't know if that's cylinder pressure or the tester has a valve in it?

[Mr Pastry]

24 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I suppose I could try a leak down test on cyl 1 to see if it's leaking through the exhaust valves? I left it with the 125psi in after the compression test and the gauge didn't drop but I don't know if that's cylinder pressure or the tester has a valve in it?

I'd try a leak test if you can.  The compression tester probably has a non-return valve.

[SiC]

Is the compression tester a known good and consistent unit?

I found my generic Chinese red box tester wildly different on every measurement. Ended up buying a Gunson which was far superior. 

Compression testers have one way valves and effectively are taking the peak reading.

[Dave_Q]

No, it's Amazon's cheapest + finest.

I think it has the same fitment as my compressor so I guess I could try some sort of calibration checking exercise with it.

[SiC]

I don't like the way the compression tester needle is bouncing around on every compression cycle. Sometimes it's going higher per cycle and then the next it drops. Looks to me that the one way valve isn't being a one way valve.

This is more how mine behaves:

Note how the needle hits a limits near the end of each cylinder test.

 

[SiC]

3 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

No, it's Amazon's cheapest + finest.

I think it has the same fitment as my compressor so I guess I could try some sort of calibration checking exercise with it.

I'd be careful making too much judgement and expensive purchases until you know your test tool is giving correct results imo. If it was me, I wouldn't be confident that tool is giving the correct readings. 

[Bren]

Pitting will not cause the issues you describe. 

[Dave_Q]

Cheers shitters for the valuable feedback as always, I have acquired a Laser brand compression tester from Halfords and ordered a leak down tester and usb borescope, will do a bit more DIAGNOSTIK before splurging on a cam, looks like inlet cam plus a set of followers new would be about £250.

[Dave_Q]

Laser tools muthafucka, getting some sensible results now although not what I wanted to see.

 

So I'm calling that 160-192-192-195.

Cylinder 1 goes up to 192 with some oil down it so rings/bore issue on cylinder 1?

I did buy a leakdown tester so probably best to try that before tearing into it just to confirm I don't also have a valve issue on that cylinder?

[SiC]

That's good you got a reliable result but not a good result. Might as well leak down test if you have one. I found my generic red box one completely inaccurate too. 😅

Hopefully yours is more accurate. However it's useful even to just inject air into a cylinder to see if it's leaking out the intake/exhaust or out the dipstick tube/bottom end. 

If it was me, as it's still got reasonable compression and if the miss isn't great, I'd probably ignore it and just send it. 🙃

Have you got a camera to put down the plug hole to have a look at the bore?

[Dave_Q]

3 hours ago, SiC said:

That's good you got a reliable result but not a good result. Might as well leak down test if you have one. I found my generic red box one completely inaccurate too. 😅

Hopefully yours is more accurate. However it's useful even to just inject air into a cylinder to see if it's leaking out the intake/exhaust or out the dipstick tube/bottom end. 

If it was me, as it's still got reasonable compression and if the miss isn't great, I'd probably ignore it and just send it. 🙃

Have you got a camera to put down the plug hole to have a look at the bore?

I did order a USB camera, its pretty rubbish but that is what you get for £6. 

I'll try the leakdown test, hopefully it can at least prove there aren't any exhaust valve leaks. 

It is due for an oil change, I wonder if it's worth trying some snake oil? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166227562115

DAP on youtube did a video testing a couple of snake oils and they did see some level of increased compression from it, they also stripped an engine and found that it was carbon clogging up the oil control rings rather than bore damage suggesting at least potential for a chemical of some sort to work.

Otherwise it's probably £200 worth of bits to get into it and change the rings which isn't awful, it's more the fact it would probably take me months to complete.

[SiC]

Is it burning oil badly? 

[Dave_Q]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

Is it burning oil badly? 

I've no idea to be honest. Need to check the level, I've only done maybe 5-600 miles in it so hard to tell. 

[SiC]

I wonder if dumping the snake oil down the cylinder directly and letting it fester for a bit might work better than directly into the oil? Especially if it's carbon build up. It'll run into the sump eventually anyway. 

[SiC]

If it is carbon build up, it's a bit weird to be just on one cylinder though?

I don't know what this particular engine is like but I did watch HumbleMechanic tear down a 2.0TFSI and he moaned about how they aren't really designed to be stripped apart. 

[Dave_Q]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

I wonder if dumping the snake oil down the cylinder directly and letting it fester for a bit might work better than directly into the oil? Especially if it's carbon build up. It'll run into the sump eventually anyway. 

Yes there are a couple of american threads about different engines where they recommend dumping some sort of solvent down the bore to free up rings, in combination with a oil additive.

That Rislone stuff is more of an oil thickener so probably wouldn't work the same way. 

While it's driving OK other than the minor miss at idle I don't think I'll take it to bits, I'll look into the snake oil options to see if there is anything that looks worth bothering with.

[SiC]

Sometimes I reckon it's better not doing tests. Most drivers will be completely oblivious and get many hundreds of thousands without even realising!

If it was me, I'd put a few thousand miles on it and decide if a keeper. Can't imagine it'll get worse suddenly in that time? Unless the ring suddenly fails of course. But that is unlikely and could happen on any of them. 

[Dave_Q]

Yeah you're right, I've lived with worse faults and never investigated them on other cars but I've started now. 

I think I might try some snake oil, this video makes it look both easy and miraculous. 

 

[SiC]

Americans use seafoam on everything! Expensive and hard to get hold of over here though.

Tbh ATF and diesel mix that many use to free old car rings probably would be fine too. 

[Dave_Q]

I ordered some seafoam off Amazon and chucked it down cyl 1 today. I've turned the engine over with a ratchet a couple of times and also had to top it up after it all disappeared.

Whether this will do anything who knows but it's worth it for £17. I'm going to do as this guy does and leave it in for about 24h, he's got a few videos and claims to have recovered misfire/compression issues with seafoam on at least 2 different cars.

I also had to assume the @Kiltox position to change a light bulb, they're xenons innit and even though you can just about get your hand to the hole, you can't get XXL meat hooks in there to disconnect the wire from the bulb to get it out.

If the snake oil does nothing for my compression then it's just getting driven as is, I have no time/money/appetite for a full on rebuild.

Not to mention, the van is now bothering me for attention with an engine light and this alarming noise (ignition is on, engine is not running)

The code is for the throttle valve and from what I can tell it's buried somewhere under that EGR cooler. There is a video on YouTube where a bloke replaces one on an E-class, it's time lapse and over an hour and a half long. This may be getting farmed out unless access from underneath or something turns out to be possible.