Bus Shite

[Remspoor]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:58 PM, busmansholiday said:

So, 50 years ago on the 12th March, 1972 (tomorrow), the first pre-production Leyland Nasty was handed over to the National Bus Company's Cumberland Motor Services. Others of the first 10 went to London Country and Sunderland and District (which managed a years service before being scrapped due to its' reliability).

I have been clearing the attic out  for weeks before Christmas. Found a load of things that I though were lost and discovered that some things are now missing. One of those things are negatives of photos i took from the age of 5 until i left school. In those negatives were some of Nationals in the first days of working on the (green Line) route between Aldgate and Brentwood. Images taken on Ilford High road. I think they were on a Sunday because less peds and traffic make for better images.

I am a bit angry about this  and also confused as to why they have disappeared.

Any how do you know if Green Line started operating nationals at the same time as London County?

[cms206]

Three weeks off sick but back at work on Monday past; a "phased return" meant a mere 60 hours worked (not driven!) in five days so far, with tonight being day six; off tomorrow then back in a 15 hour day on Monday.

This was yesterday, with my daily featuring on Simon & Garfunkel's lesser known follow up to Sound of Silence.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

20 hours ago, 808 Estate said:

I'm trying to work out what's going on there. Air suspension lost the plot? Square wheels? I would suggest CGI but I reckon it's worryingly real...

[Eyersey1234]

18 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

I could name a few operators where that would have been a good vehicle.

So could I 😂😂

[busmansholiday]

6 hours ago, Remspoor said:

Any how do you know if Green Line started operating nationals at the same time as London County?

Off the web

The National was British Leyland's future-bus for Britain and the world. Whereas bus companies had traditionally selected a chassis of their choice and then had it bodied by their choice of body-builder, incorporating all their local prejudices and special requirements into the design, the National was to be a proper mass-production bus, incorporating the best of design practice to produce a bus that could go anywhere and do anything. In practice, of course, it didn't turn out like that, in that the standard National could NOT go everywhere, mainly due to its overhangs and turning circle, and was outwith the regulations in several target export countries. But back to London.

London Country, a loyal National Bus Company subsidiary by now, was early in the queue for Leyland Nationals. The first were standard, off-the-peg dual-door 11.3m (37ft) buses. What was perhaps unusual was the livery of the first few: bright yellow and blue for the Stevenage Superbus network.

LN1 (National #000003) arrived at Reigate in mid-April 1972, painted overall yellow. (British Leyland would only paint buses one colour!). It wasn't quite up to scratch, and had to be returned to Workington for rectification. Back at Reigate it received its blue window surrounds and Superbus logos. The first two started work at Stevenage (SV) in September 1972, with K-registrations, followed by two more with L-reg plates and Superbus livery in December. They joined Swifts (SM) and Metro Scanias (MS) on routes SB1 and SB2.

 

Route No	Route	Garage
SB1	Stevenage (Gunnels Wood Rd) - Bus Stn - Chells	SV Stevenage
SB2	Stevenage Bus Stn - St Nicholas	SV Stevenage

Further buses followed, now in the mandatory overall NBC leaf green (NBC management had declared that local tradition and initiative was a BAD THING, and that all National Bus Company buses had to be in poppy red or leaf green (or maybe navy blue) within two years- so there!)

Happy garages receiving the new buses included Hatfield (HF) for Hatfield & Welwyn G.C. town routes, and Dunton Green (DG) (for the 402, 431 and 493).

LN8-11 were delivered on loan to Nottingham City Transport, but LNB8, 10 and 11 were subsequently sent to Hants & Dorset in exchange for three Metro-Scanias, leaving just LN9 to return to service with London Country.

LNC (LNB) 24-70

By now British Leyland were starting to soften their original hard stance, as bus companies around the country voiced their objections at having to buy dual-door city buses for inter-urban routes. A single-door version was to be allowed as well. London Country jumped at the opportunity to buy something to replace the remaining RFs, Reliances, Routemasters and Swifts on GreenLine duties. The RFs were old, the Reliances and Swifts unreliable, and the Routemasters (with two crew) expensive. So despite the Nationals having just the bog-standard bus seating, 47 were purchased.
The buses were painted in the dual-purpose livery of green and white. Customers could tell from the outside that these were Green Line services by the fleetname on the front and the traditional yellow blinds. Not much else was of GreenLine quality, with pvc-covered bus seats and no luggage racks.

The first, LNC 23, was delivered before the end of 1972, and there were enough by March 73 to give the passengers on the 721 a nasty shock. Their Reliance RPs, with coach seats etc, were shuffled elsewhere, and the Brentwood run was back to utility style. Other routes received the brutality treatment, and RFs were retired in droves. LNCs went to Tring and Chelsham for the 706, and High Wycombe and Reigate for the 711.

 

Route No	Route	Garage
721	Brentwood - Romford - London (Aldgate)	RE Romford
706	Aylesbury - London - Westerham	TG Tring CM Chelsham
711	High Wycombe - London - Reigate	RG Reigate HE High Wycombe

But perhaps someone listened to the voices of complaint and rather better (short) Leyland Nationals with coach seats were to be acquired.

The LNCs were gradually replaced by the better SNCs with coach seats, as they became available, and were declassified to bus status as LNBs. Numbers and fleetnames were changed, although most retained their green and white dual purpose livery until 1980 or later.
London Country standardised on the shorter Nationals, overall building up the largest total fleet of Nationals in the UK, with a total of 543. The 70 long versions fell from favour, and by 1980 all the dual door LN variety were in store, or sold to other NBC operators, with LN7 taken into the service fleet as an information and sales bus. The LNBs continued their punishing work around the edges of the London Area, before eventual retirement or further service with other companies.
Several went to People's Provincial in Hampshire, and another group went to East Kent before moving on to Stenalink. There they provided the first taste of English public transport for those distinctly second-class

[Remspoor]

Intro of Nationals to the GL route was not long after LCs introduction. Thank you

[andyberg]

Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats

[catsinthewelder]

Don't think I've seen 2+3 seating on a bus before.  It's pretty shit on a train so I wouldn't fancy going far on that.

[Eyersey1234]

58 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

Don't think I've seen 2+3 seating on a bus before.  It's pretty shit on a train so I wouldn't fancy going far on that.

Some buses have 3+2 seating, mostly vehicles used as school buses. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

1 hour ago, andyberg said:

Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats

How to put people off Public Transport from the very beginning! I recall a lively discussion when I was at school; two pupils to one seat was planned to save money on school trips! 

This was swiftly overturned by a group of parents and some strong letters... 

This would have been the early to mid-nineties... 😱

[Richard_FM]

8 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

How to put people off Public Transport from the very beginning! I recall a lively discussion when I was at school; two pupils to one seat was planned to save money on school trips! 

This was swiftly overturned by a group of parents and some strong letters... 

This would have been the early to mid-nineties... 😱

I imagine it was before the M40 minibus crash.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

I imagine it was before the M40 minibus crash.

No, I think that was 1990-91; this was definitely after that; it was one of the examples of what could go wrong that was mentioned from memory. 

The vehicles in question would have been AS approved though. Six wheel Talbot thingies! 🤦‍♂️

[DLR]

14 hours ago, andyberg said:

Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats

 

I have to say, I think the facelifted front on that looks rather good! Back when I was working Full Time as a Coach Driver, my allocated vehicle for a time was an Irizar i4 (Scania) that had 59 seats. I don't have any interior pictures to hand, but even with 59 seats it was rather snug! I wouldn't fancy one with the 3+2 configuration. Because they're quite low there's not much in the way of luggage space, so whenever I'd be on a Heathrow or a Gatwick for the international summer school it'd be a challenge to fit the suitcases in. Luckily I'm only 5 foot tall so climbing to the back of the lockers to fill all the gaps isn't an issue, plus I'm rather good at Tetris! Luggage for 59 was enough,  80 must be a squeeze! 

In the end I spent so little time in it because I was driving everything else in the fleet. Then I went Part Time, then they went under. 

Would there be any interest in sharing some of the photos? My time at Alexcars was the best chapter of my life so far and I've loads of snaps, although most of it modern there are some oddballs (Beulas and Indcar spring to mind). I've done a bit of work for other operators in and around Bristol and Bath that I could share too? Although there's only one job I truly miss. Working at Alexcars was like being part of the family. 

First photo at Beaconsfield Services, second at the coach park in Swanage with a coach from Mervyn's (a very good friend of mine). 

 

[andyberg]

3 hours ago, DLR said:

I have to say, I think the facelifted front on that looks rather good! Back when I was working Full Time as a Coach Driver, my allocated vehicle for a time was an Irizar i4 (Scania) that had 59 seats. I don't have any interior pictures to hand, but even with 59 seats it was rather snug! I wouldn't fancy one with the 3+2 configuration. Because they're quite low there's not much in the way of luggage space, so whenever I'd be on a Heathrow or a Gatwick for the international summer school it'd be a challenge to fit the suitcases in. Luckily I'm only 5 foot tall so climbing to the back of the lockers to fill all the gaps isn't an issue, plus I'm rather good at Tetris! Luggage for 59 was enough,  80 must be a squeeze!

 

 

Our one is also PSVAR so it has a wheelchair lift. That reduces the luggage capacity by half! So there is no way you could get luggage for 80 in the single rear locker. I haven't driven it yet, and I don't really want to. I much prefer my i6.

[Eyersey1234]

2 hours ago, andyberg said:

Our one is also PSVAR so it has a wheelchair lift. That reduces the luggage capacity by half! So there is no way you could get luggage for 80 in the single rear locker. I haven't driven it yet, and I don't really want to. I much prefer my i6.

How does it reduce the luggage capacity? 

[busmansholiday]

5 hours ago, DLR said:

Would there be any interest in sharing some of the photos? 

There certainly would.

[andyberg]

59 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

How does it reduce the luggage capacity? 

The lift and mechanism sits inside part of the locker. We have 4 PSVAR coaches and I think the lifts have been used once or twice in 2 years. 

[cms206]

Never been a fan of 3+2 seaters, they're inheritly dangerous in an accident or fire as there is such a reduced margin to get everyone off.

We've got umpteen including the only 12.7-metre, two axle Bova Futura in Scotland licensed as a 77-seater. It's extraordinarily unpleasant, most of ours are 72s or 75s.

We've also just sent the eldest of our VDL Futura 2s off for 3+2 conversion, a 62-plate new as a demo. Not sure how many seats it'll come back with yet.

[cms206]

Also a spot from yesterday, a lesser spotted Yutong belonging to Scottish Power.

[RoverFolkUs]

 

I dont know much about buses but I'm sure a few people here will be able to identify what this one is!

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

 

I dont know much about buses but I'm sure a few people here will be able to identify what this one is!

I just get a black square

[Leyland Worldmaster]

A bus with a cloaking device? 🤔 

[Liggle]

8 hours ago, cms206 said:

Also a spot from yesterday, a lesser spotted Yutong belonging to Scottish Power.

Our park and rides in Leicester are all Yutong E12's now, very smooth and nippy although not as quiet as I was expecting

[Inspector Morose]

3 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

 

I dont know much about buses but I'm sure a few people here will be able to identify what this one is!

Looks like an ex-Cardiff Scania Omniwhateveritis to me.

They withdrew the last ones at the end of January.

[catsinthewelder]

Is there a reason the bendy bus couldn't have gone off to be a school bus with many seats?

[Metal Guru]

6 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

Is there a reason the bendy bus couldn't have gone off to be a school bus with many seats?

Have you ever been on a school bus?

[DLR]

18 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

There certainly would.

Ask and you shall receive! I'd like to add the caveat that whilst I loved this job, I am not 100% au fait with things like engine capacities and model designations. Feel free to correct me, or elaborate if you know more!

So for a bit of context, I started my driving with Alexcars of Cirencester back in August 2016. Never planned on becoming a Coach Driver, but an HGV Driver instead. Now, when I applied for my provisional Class 2 entitlement earlier that year I ticked the box for D entitlement as well. By sheer coincidence one morning I was browsing Facebook on my phone whilst sat in my car, in the car park of the Nationwide office I worked at, absolutely disheartened at the  prospect of the extra overtime printing passbooks I'd agreed to, when I happened upon a job advert. "No experience required, we'll put you through the test" was the general gist of it. So I sent off an email, thinking not a hope in hell would they reply to me. Within an hour I'd had a reply from Ben, the then company director, inviting me in for a chat. So later on that day I finished work, pointed the Rover 75 I had at the time in the direction of Cirencester and off I went. Within ten minutes of arriving I had a job offer, theory tests booked and they said let us know when you've passed and we'll sort the practical out.

Several weeks passed, theories done and dusted (two were in Swindon and one was in Reading on the same day) and I was told the plan. "We're going to send you to a training school in Hereford" they told me. "Come in Monday, the foreman will meet you. Drive up in the van, he'll drive the coach. Pass your test by Thursday and then drive the Coach back to Ciren". Monday came, a blur of new faces and handshakes and after a brief introduction to the VW transporter (which I later came on to own, albeit briefly) I was deposited at PJE in Hereford with this:

Y69 HHE. A leaky 55 seat Irizar on Scania underpinnings. After a nerve-jangling few days of terrorising the residents of Hereford a pass certificate was issued and I took this coach on my first solo drive from Hereford to Cirencester. Being a nervous first timer I opted for M50/M5/A417. Every time I've since ventured to Herefordshire I've taken the A40. The coach was a good one to drive, by all accounts this was the first coach that Alexcars owned brand new. Leaked like a sieve and steamed up something chronic on a rainy day, but was perfectly capable of working the Ciren College contracts. I believe this got sold to a company somewhere in South Wales having been repainted (note - not my photo):

 

What followed was a brief spell in a Mercedes Touro, alas I have no photos of this to hand. I understand that got part exchanged for one of the new Mobipeoples after one of our drivers blew the engine one morning? 

Soon after, I was allocated the Irizar i4 that I drove regularly as my allocated vehicle. 

Seen here at Westonbirt School. 59 seats, Scania again, drove rather well. Had some issues with suspension sensors which would regularly see it wonky (I will try and find a photo of it) and would often see the inside of Scania in Swindon or Keltruck in Cheltenham being recalibrated. 

A shot of the interior. With 59 seats it was rather snug and not the most comfortable affair, but did the job on school trips and high capacity airport runs. Lack of carpet meant it was also prime RAU (Agricultural College) shuttle on their various field trips to farms, factories and abattoirs as it meant it was perfect to hose down the muck at the end of the day. Being more cattle truck than coach meant that it didn't get the luxury of being used all that often on the nicer jobs, which is how I found myself driving absolutely everything else in the fleet. Lovely to drive, if a little cramped underneath for luggage as previously mentioned, but a perfectly capable load lugger nonetheless. At the time there weren't many of these about, although more operators seem to be taking them on now as I believe you can get them as hybrids? With the length and overhang it meant some drivers would come a cropper if they weren't used to it, my colleague Frank (a Shearings veteran, by all accounts) ripped the side lockers off one afternoon on a bollard. Last I heard it was up near Huddersfield, still in Alexcars colours. 

For Christmas the drivers would have a competition to decorate the coaches and put collection boxes in them to raise donations for a nominated charity. Good fun for the kids and adults alike and meant we got the lion's share of the panto trips. I've accrued quite the arsenal of lights and tinsel because of it! Whilst I find an interior shot, here's what it looked like from the outside during my second Christmas. Never drove with the lights flashing, but when stationary by goodness it was impressive. 

I have loads more photos to add, but I'll do them in stages so I can keep track. Incoming posts should be less waffle and more pictures!

[DLR]

I should apologise, most of my photos are shocking. David Bailey I ain't and a photoshopper I never was!

In terms of Mercedes Touros, we had two during my time there. BU53 AWV, which I believe was 49 seats. That met an untimely end when something terminal went with the engine, so I believe it got chopped in as a part ex on a newer coach and since had a new engine fitted. No idea where that ended up.

One of the others that they had was BX54 EBL. 41 Seat exec. Ex Leger coach, in case you couldn't tell from the colour schemes!

 

Whilst being the same size as AWV it had fewer seats. Reason for this? 

Pimp sofa!

Being a lower seat capacity and one of the older vehicles on fleet it didn't get used as a front line touring coach in my time. The odd private hire (I've taken it to Barry Island with one of my regular oldies day out) but spent most of the time trundling up the Fosse Way to Stow-on-the-Wold on a college contract (via Northleach and Bourton-on-the-Water). Was a good spec, mind. Usual footrests, trays, etc. but each seat had an Aux jack for the entertainment system (never worked),  boiler/fridge (again, never worked) and the toilet cubicle was nailed shut because - yep, you guessed it, didn't work! Would've been quite the tourer when it was new.

Other Mercs on fleet included two Tourinos. BF59 NHO, a 36 seat affair with hot water boiler and fridge. A problematic coach that spent more time at the dealers than it did on the road! Alas, no photo that I can find and I can't take one now as it was exported to... Cyprus, possibly? Another popular one was BU06CVC. Second hand purchase and once pride of the fleet when it was decided that a Midi Exec was more useful than a 49 seater. By the time I started it was tired and scabby, but it still drove well and never gave me grief. Unlike the other coaches it was a 6 speed manual and was a joy to drive. 30 seats, fridge up front, with toilet and servery to the rear. Sturdy little motor that would go anywhere. Would often be used as a back-up for when the newer Yutong was out. Here it is in Quenington, waiting for a group of theatre goers to London:

When they went bust in March 2020 the vehicles were auctioned off by a third party. CVC ended up with De Luxe, painted in their colours as seen here (not my photo):

I believe it has since been part exchanged again and was recently up for sale. I can't find the advert, so hopefully it has found a new home. I believe its days were numbered at Alexcars anyway as it was beginning to get a bit crispy underneath...

 

[OM646]

Touros were built here in Portugal, at Caetano. Will never understand why they didn't make LHD variants. Not everyone was willing to pony up the money for a Travego back then, and the O350/Tourismo just looked outdated...

Edited March 16, 2022 by OM646
grammar m9

[DLR]

We had 3 Irizar PBs. ACH 80A, 53A and 69A. All Scania. I don't know much about their pasts, I think they were ex-Irish National Express but I could be wrong. I know they had done some big miles, 69A being on well over 1.5 million KM but had a replacement engine at Scania at some point. 53A and 69A were near identical inside, being 53 seaters with no other luxuries other than a fridge up front. 69A had the updated dash set up with newer steering wheel and dials, though. Externally 53A was painted in white, as seen in the below photo on a day trip to Weston Super Mare (that's my i4 behind it with AH, an Irizar i6 in front). 69A was kept in company colours, along with 80A. These saw a lot of late night weddings and other general piss ups, along with the more general mainstream coach work like contracts and school trips. 

80A was a 49 seat exec with the usual toilet, fridge and boiler (didn't work...) and, unlike the other two, had a continental door. 80A was a favourite of mine, it was the coach I used on my first ever private hire (to Stonehenge) and finished my full time side of things with a trip to Edinburgh Fringe with my Uni's Drama Society in 2019. An eventful trip, in so much as the fuel gauge wasn't the most accurate and I ended up running out of fuel two hundred yards from our yard on Love Lane. After much swearing it was decided to get an oil can, fill it with diesel from the pump and chuck that in the tank just to get it to tick over and drive it into the yard. Unfortunately for me, the new fitter being an absolute muppet had left an open drum of used engine oil at the bottom of the steps. What ensued was a very perplexed Dan falling into the vat of oil and having to strip off and shower, before throwing the keys in the office and flouncing off home in my pants...

I once used 80A for the Malmesbury Victoria football club on their away game to Bitton. Outbound went without a hitch, however when I went to start it to move into position for pick up an airline blew. This meant air brakes stuck on, suspension wouldn't raise and I was unable to move the vehicle. Gosh darn it, at 11 at night as well! Pirtek were unable to sort it until the morning, so my rather disgruntled boss had to venture out with a replacement coach to get them home. Still, Bitton FC kept their bar open whilst we were stranded and I had all the diet coke I could drink. Small mercies...

Not at Bitton, but a skateboarding centre on the outskirts of Gloucester. Looks like I'm in the middle of a field, but I can assure you it's perfectly safe and we did this particular pick up many times! That's Gloucester in the distance.

And just because it's a photo of the PB, proof I'm actually a short arse... Taken by one of my fellow students, they found it incomprehensible that I was driving their coach because all they'd known me for all year was mucking about in a theatre. Being a luvvie doesn't pay my bills, dahhling!

 

I don't know why these photos are all so grainy...