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18 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

There certainly would.

Ask and you shall receive! I'd like to add the caveat that whilst I loved this job, I am not 100% au fait with things like engine capacities and model designations. Feel free to correct me, or elaborate if you know more!

So for a bit of context, I started my driving with Alexcars of Cirencester back in August 2016. Never planned on becoming a Coach Driver, but an HGV Driver instead. Now, when I applied for my provisional Class 2 entitlement earlier that year I ticked the box for D entitlement as well. By sheer coincidence one morning I was browsing Facebook on my phone whilst sat in my car, in the car park of the Nationwide office I worked at, absolutely disheartened at the  prospect of the extra overtime printing passbooks I'd agreed to, when I happened upon a job advert. "No experience required, we'll put you through the test" was the general gist of it. So I sent off an email, thinking not a hope in hell would they reply to me. Within an hour I'd had a reply from Ben, the then company director, inviting me in for a chat. So later on that day I finished work, pointed the Rover 75 I had at the time in the direction of Cirencester and off I went. Within ten minutes of arriving I had a job offer, theory tests booked and they said let us know when you've passed and we'll sort the practical out.

Several weeks passed, theories done and dusted (two were in Swindon and one was in Reading on the same day) and I was told the plan. "We're going to send you to a training school in Hereford" they told me. "Come in Monday, the foreman will meet you. Drive up in the van, he'll drive the coach. Pass your test by Thursday and then drive the Coach back to Ciren". Monday came, a blur of new faces and handshakes and after a brief introduction to the VW transporter (which I later came on to own, albeit briefly) I was deposited at PJE in Hereford with this:

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Y69 HHE. A leaky 55 seat Irizar on Scania underpinnings. After a nerve-jangling few days of terrorising the residents of Hereford a pass certificate was issued and I took this coach on my first solo drive from Hereford to Cirencester. Being a nervous first timer I opted for M50/M5/A417. Every time I've since ventured to Herefordshire I've taken the A40. The coach was a good one to drive, by all accounts this was the first coach that Alexcars owned brand new. Leaked like a sieve and steamed up something chronic on a rainy day, but was perfectly capable of working the Ciren College contracts. I believe this got sold to a company somewhere in South Wales having been repainted (note - not my photo):

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What followed was a brief spell in a Mercedes Touro, alas I have no photos of this to hand. I understand that got part exchanged for one of the new Mobipeoples after one of our drivers blew the engine one morning? 

Soon after, I was allocated the Irizar i4 that I drove regularly as my allocated vehicle. 

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Seen here at Westonbirt School. 59 seats, Scania again, drove rather well. Had some issues with suspension sensors which would regularly see it wonky (I will try and find a photo of it) and would often see the inside of Scania in Swindon or Keltruck in Cheltenham being recalibrated. 

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A shot of the interior. With 59 seats it was rather snug and not the most comfortable affair, but did the job on school trips and high capacity airport runs. Lack of carpet meant it was also prime RAU (Agricultural College) shuttle on their various field trips to farms, factories and abattoirs as it meant it was perfect to hose down the muck at the end of the day. Being more cattle truck than coach meant that it didn't get the luxury of being used all that often on the nicer jobs, which is how I found myself driving absolutely everything else in the fleet. Lovely to drive, if a little cramped underneath for luggage as previously mentioned, but a perfectly capable load lugger nonetheless. At the time there weren't many of these about, although more operators seem to be taking them on now as I believe you can get them as hybrids? With the length and overhang it meant some drivers would come a cropper if they weren't used to it, my colleague Frank (a Shearings veteran, by all accounts) ripped the side lockers off one afternoon on a bollard. Last I heard it was up near Huddersfield, still in Alexcars colours. 

For Christmas the drivers would have a competition to decorate the coaches and put collection boxes in them to raise donations for a nominated charity. Good fun for the kids and adults alike and meant we got the lion's share of the panto trips. I've accrued quite the arsenal of lights and tinsel because of it! Whilst I find an interior shot, here's what it looked like from the outside during my second Christmas. Never drove with the lights flashing, but when stationary by goodness it was impressive. 

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I have loads more photos to add, but I'll do them in stages so I can keep track. Incoming posts should be less waffle and more pictures!

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I should apologise, most of my photos are shocking. David Bailey I ain't and a photoshopper I never was!

In terms of Mercedes Touros, we had two during my time there. BU53 AWV, which I believe was 49 seats. That met an untimely end when something terminal went with the engine, so I believe it got chopped in as a part ex on a newer coach and since had a new engine fitted. No idea where that ended up.

One of the others that they had was BX54 EBL. 41 Seat exec. Ex Leger coach, in case you couldn't tell from the colour schemes!

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Whilst being the same size as AWV it had fewer seats. Reason for this? 

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Pimp sofa!

Being a lower seat capacity and one of the older vehicles on fleet it didn't get used as a front line touring coach in my time. The odd private hire (I've taken it to Barry Island with one of my regular oldies day out) but spent most of the time trundling up the Fosse Way to Stow-on-the-Wold on a college contract (via Northleach and Bourton-on-the-Water). Was a good spec, mind. Usual footrests, trays, etc. but each seat had an Aux jack for the entertainment system (never worked),  boiler/fridge (again, never worked) and the toilet cubicle was nailed shut because - yep, you guessed it, didn't work! Would've been quite the tourer when it was new.

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Other Mercs on fleet included two Tourinos. BF59 NHO, a 36 seat affair with hot water boiler and fridge. A problematic coach that spent more time at the dealers than it did on the road! Alas, no photo that I can find and I can't take one now as it was exported to... Cyprus, possibly? Another popular one was BU06CVC. Second hand purchase and once pride of the fleet when it was decided that a Midi Exec was more useful than a 49 seater. By the time I started it was tired and scabby, but it still drove well and never gave me grief. Unlike the other coaches it was a 6 speed manual and was a joy to drive. 30 seats, fridge up front, with toilet and servery to the rear. Sturdy little motor that would go anywhere. Would often be used as a back-up for when the newer Yutong was out. Here it is in Quenington, waiting for a group of theatre goers to London:

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When they went bust in March 2020 the vehicles were auctioned off by a third party. CVC ended up with De Luxe, painted in their colours as seen here (not my photo):

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I believe it has since been part exchanged again and was recently up for sale. I can't find the advert, so hopefully it has found a new home. I believe its days were numbered at Alexcars anyway as it was beginning to get a bit crispy underneath...

 

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Touros were built here in Portugal, at Caetano. Will never understand why they didn't make LHD variants. Not everyone was willing to pony up the money for a Travego back then, and the O350/Tourismo just looked outdated...

Edited by OM646
grammar m9
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We had 3 Irizar PBs. ACH 80A, 53A and 69A. All Scania. I don't know much about their pasts, I think they were ex-Irish National Express but I could be wrong. I know they had done some big miles, 69A being on well over 1.5 million KM but had a replacement engine at Scania at some point. 53A and 69A were near identical inside, being 53 seaters with no other luxuries other than a fridge up front. 69A had the updated dash set up with newer steering wheel and dials, though. Externally 53A was painted in white, as seen in the below photo on a day trip to Weston Super Mare (that's my i4 behind it with AH, an Irizar i6 in front). 69A was kept in company colours, along with 80A. These saw a lot of late night weddings and other general piss ups, along with the more general mainstream coach work like contracts and school trips. 

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80A was a 49 seat exec with the usual toilet, fridge and boiler (didn't work...) and, unlike the other two, had a continental door. 80A was a favourite of mine, it was the coach I used on my first ever private hire (to Stonehenge) and finished my full time side of things with a trip to Edinburgh Fringe with my Uni's Drama Society in 2019. An eventful trip, in so much as the fuel gauge wasn't the most accurate and I ended up running out of fuel two hundred yards from our yard on Love Lane. After much swearing it was decided to get an oil can, fill it with diesel from the pump and chuck that in the tank just to get it to tick over and drive it into the yard. Unfortunately for me, the new fitter being an absolute muppet had left an open drum of used engine oil at the bottom of the steps. What ensued was a very perplexed Dan falling into the vat of oil and having to strip off and shower, before throwing the keys in the office and flouncing off home in my pants...

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I once used 80A for the Malmesbury Victoria football club on their away game to Bitton. Outbound went without a hitch, however when I went to start it to move into position for pick up an airline blew. This meant air brakes stuck on, suspension wouldn't raise and I was unable to move the vehicle. Gosh darn it, at 11 at night as well! Pirtek were unable to sort it until the morning, so my rather disgruntled boss had to venture out with a replacement coach to get them home. Still, Bitton FC kept their bar open whilst we were stranded and I had all the diet coke I could drink. Small mercies...

Not at Bitton, but a skateboarding centre on the outskirts of Gloucester. Looks like I'm in the middle of a field, but I can assure you it's perfectly safe and we did this particular pick up many times! That's Gloucester in the distance.1247667218_80AGloucester.thumb.jpg.790ce73d88560f56b87976102a39a556.jpg

And just because it's a photo of the PB, proof I'm actually a short arse... Taken by one of my fellow students, they found it incomprehensible that I was driving their coach because all they'd known me for all year was mucking about in a theatre. Being a luvvie doesn't pay my bills, dahhling!

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I don't know why these photos are all so grainy...

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Indcar and Beulas!

Two of each. FN52 GUX and MC06ALC were both Iveco Indcars, based on truck chassis? They had the most hideous bodywork I've ever seen and looked (and wobbled) like jellyfish. GUX was used exclusively on a school contract as it was fitted with CCTV (requirement around here) and ALC was the nicer of the two, with lovely interior and tables. I want to say it was a 26 seater? Perfectly adequate for bimbling around, but not ideal for actually interacting with passengers as you're sat so far forward from the passenger door and you're on top of the engine bay, which means if you want to move from drivers seat to saloon then you have to climb over the hump in the middle. GUX was a manual and ALC was an auto, both were plodders and felt top heavy, not helped by the tiny wheels and narrow wheelbase in comparison to the bodywork.

No photos of GUX, sadly. The best photo of ALC I have is this one, parked at Westonbirt Arboretum next to one of Barnes' deckers. I wonder how many seats it has... 🤔

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Only other photo I have is this one. Driving up through Birdlip one morning, the driver (not me!) clipped a tree. Took out all of the windows on one side. No lasting injuries thankfully. Few kids had a day off college, though... 

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Was off the road for around two months as the new glass had to be made. Right up until it was sold we were still finding glass... 

Other Ivecos included two Beulas (Cygnus?), YN07 DZY and DZZ. They were both 55 seat execs, both with dodgy toilets (DZY was sealed for the duration of my employment).  Both ex-Peter Godward, each with well over 800,000km on the clock. Bloody lovely to drive, they were autos but were able to manually change the gears. They weren't pre-select, more like a manual with no clutch if that makes sense? Reversing as a newbie was interesting as if you weren't gentle they'd lurch, but once mastered they were a dream and were my go-to for long distance, given the choice. Ideal for airports with a ridiculous amount of luggage space underneath. DZY had a lovely red interior and DZZ had a slightly more tired blue interior, DZY had a rather jerky gearchange no matter how it was driven but DZZ was a smooth drive. If it were up to me I'd have swapped the interiors and made DZZ the perfect tourer. Provided the toilet was fixed, of course...

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Not the best photo in the dark, but this was DZZ. 

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DZY, flanked by HHE (yes, I see the headlight was out, I changed it not long after taking this photo!) and YR02ZZV. More on that one later.

 

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This is probably the most I've ever posted on Autoshite! And it's not even about cars! 

So here's another couple of sister coaches - YR02 ZZV and ZZW. There seems to be a theme emerging here of coaches in pairs - I was told that the logic behind it was that why buy one new coach when you can buy two second hand motors for similar money?

Both Irizar Century's. Both Scania. Both Auto. Both 53 seats. No luxuries, apart from a broken fridge. I don't have any pictures of them together, so I'll make this a longer more general post...

We also had two others, SCZ 6104 and SCZ 7108. Again, both auto Scanias. Both were upseated to 70 seats with the 3+2 configuration, but had huge locker space so could take the baggage. SCZ7 was used as the school bus on the Birdlip run (was fitted with CCTV, required by the council) and would go down roads most would hesitate taking a car down. Country lanes so narrow if you took your hands off the wheel it would steer like it was on rails because the tyres were scrubbing the banks, kind of narrow. This took its toll and we eventually gave up the Birdlip run and Barnes eventually took it over (sticking their brand new i4 on it... bet that lasted long). SCZ6 was used for everything, but saw a lot of use doing school residentials to outdoor adventure places in the middle of nowhere due to the high seating and luggage capacity. 

ODW 459 was a facelifted Century, a 57 seat exec tri-axle. a dream to drive. 

SCZ6 on a school sports somewhere in Wiltshire (note my excellent use of all of the disabled parking bays... I was told to park there, honest!)

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ZZV and ZZW parked with OTA at the Royal Well in Cheltenham. 

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ODW waiting for me to pick up a choir/orchestra (I forget which, ironically they were some of my quietest passengers) in Malmesbury:

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Now, one evening a couple of years ago we were due to work the Hunt Ball. Much snow had fallen and the roads were far from ideal. Myself and a colleague were tasked with working that night and were under orders not to put either coach in the ditch, so we said rather than taking the nicer stuff we'd take the older load luggers. We drew straws and I ended in HHE, my colleague in ZZW. Several runs executed without a hitch, then suddenly all hell breaks loose. There was a track leading up to the main building through the grounds with a ditch either side full of snow. A taxi decides he cannot get past us (despite us being parked well out of the way and another coach managed not 5 minutes previous) so his passenger gets out acting the big man. Despite me informing him that I cannot move without getting stuck in the snow in the ditch he offers me some rather colourful advice about my parking skills and my future career as a driver. Whilst being told to wind his neck in, my colleague emerged from his coach behind to see what the hubbub was all about. Whilst I may be a small man in stature, my colleague is the very definition of brick shithouse. He taps the chap on the shoulder and the fellow soon realises he's beat, then rather amazingly it seems the taxi can get past after all and off he goes into the night.

Meanwhile, this had attracted the attention of one of the female guests. She staggers over, heels sinking in the frozen field and stopping only to pull down her dress to protect her bare legs from the arctic winds, and strikes up conversation. Turns out she's the wife of one of the senior military chaps at the ball and, once realising that being a drama student I am more likely to be a friend of Dorothy and not a threat, decides that now is the time to drunkenly describe in graphic detail the things she'd done for her man to keep him interested and ask why it wasn't working. One of my more entertaining conversations and I hope the advice I gave her served her well. Later that evening one of my esteemed guests misjudged a burp and I finished my night cleaning up the technicolour yawn. I think I know which one of us had the better evening. Should've taken my own advice.

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Some assorted photos from across the times:

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A photo of a photo, terrible quality. Dyson sponsor Bath Rugby and every year they get tickets to watch them play at Twickenham. Andrew James had the contract for their travel at the time, however he doesn't have enough vehicles to transfer the couple of thousand of people from Hullavington to Twickenham. Enter Alexcars, Rover European and Ellisons! Left to Right are ACH 69A, YT60 OTA, ACH 80A, ODW 459, 516 ACH and AH16 ACH. All bar 69A and OTA were execs and because they were without an on board bog we had to make a comfort stop at Reading Services. 69A was driven by my colleague Colin, who was only ever recruited to do school contracts so was a bit out of his depth. So it was a case of "follow me, stick to my ass like glue and don't lose me" sort of journey. Of course, the delay in stopping meant we hit the traffic and only just arrived in time for the start of the match. Still, to see coaches from all the local operators was a sight to behold. Last year Andrew James lost the Dyson contract to Turners of Bristol (a company I have also worked for and will share some photos of in due course) and both Alexcars and Rover European are no more. Ellisons are still operating though.

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SCZ 6104 and 516 ACH parked outside the County Ground in Swindon. Not much to say, other than I'm surprised they both still had their wheels given they were left unattended for a whole hour...

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Random shot from within the workshop. To the left was one of the Bedford OBs we had. I didn't have much to do with them purely on the basis that if I worked a weekend shift in one of those it would've been a wedding that only paid 4 hours, as opposed to the day trip to London which was a good 10-12 hour day. 

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DH66 ACH. A 22 seat EVM minibus based on a Mercedes Sprinter. Good and sprightly to drive, not so great for passenger comfort. Seats are cramped and narrow (2+1 set up with 4 across the back row) but for corporate shuttles it did the job. No luggage space whatsoever though, so an absolute nightmare when doing a school sports and no room for their gear... Last I checked this ended up with Cymru Coaches. This was taken at Cotswold Airport on some corporate Christmas function.

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Another yard shot. Y10 RAD. Scania Irizar, but this one had a preselect manual gearbox. 55 seats and holier than Jesus when raining. Went like the clappers and ended up being exported to Zimbabwe. I drove it on a morning school run then bombed it from Ciren to Tilbury Docks with my colleague trying to keep up behind in the VW Transporter behind. We made it back in time for afternoon schools. That one worked right up until the very end. I did a final check for belongings before I handed it over at the docks and found one of the kid's mobile phones. He's very lucky I found that, otherwise it'd have been a long walk to pick it up!

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Final shot of it before it was handed over. Just behind it was the man marking the battery isolators with the white pen!

PO16 HTT was a midi coach we had on hire. MAN with Mobipeople bodywork. Same set up as the Iveco Indcars, sit so far forward and on top of the engine. I used this on a 3 day tour of London with the primary school. Nicknamed the burger van. Wasn't all that bad to drive really but by no means the definition of luxury. I think it's since had a PSVAR conversion, no idea where it is now. Glad to see the back of that one. 

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Another one bought brand new. BH16 ACH. Yutong TC9, I don't know much about it but it had 32 seats, a toilet and charging points (The only vehicle on fleet to have them). Like the aforementioned Tourino, this was a busy vehicle and was rarely in the yard. Seen here at a steam railway somewhere, possibly in the Midlands? 

 

I think that'll do for now. I hope some of these posts were of interest, I shall dig out some more photos soon from my other employers (including a rather nice OB and some snaps from my brief trip to Shetland!)

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5 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

As it is the 50th anniversary of the Leyland National, I thought I'd share this... From Leyland, an Instruction Manual. 

 

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Does it include the bit about getting a passenger to sit in the driver's seat, with the gear leaver in S and them turning the key whilst you walk around the outside kicking the various rear panels until the bastard starts?

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2 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Does it include the bit about getting a passenger to sit in the driver's seat, with the gear leaver in S and them turning the key whilst you walk around the outside kicking the various rear panels until the bastard starts?

Yes, on page 94, there are a number of amendments. 😜😜😜

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13 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

As it is the 50th anniversary of the Leyland National, I thought I'd share this... From Leyland, an Instruction Manual. 

 

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I wonder if anyone has a buff logbook for a National? its weird to think that for what was such a relatively modern looking bus that the first couple years of them would of been all registered by county councils on buff logbooks

something I normally associate with proper old shite!

 

 

on a similar note, perhaps one @Yoss might know, but do any Routemaster buff logbooks survive? where they even give logbooks, (id not be surprised if London Transport had their own special arrangement with London Council)

or did London Transport just have a filing cabinet with 2760 buff logbooks in it? LOL

im also curious to know who they where even registered to exactly, where they just registered, to London Transport, or where buses registered to the garages they where assigned too?

 

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Must admit that's something I'd never thought about. But never mind 2760, they would have had 7,000 odd buff log books at any one time. If you add the Aldenham overhaul process in to the mix it would have made conventional log books even more complicated. I can imagine London Transport saying to the DVLA, 'look, this is what we're doing' and DVLA just shrugging with a 'yeah whatever'. They probably wouldn't want the hassle. 

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23 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Must admit that's something I'd never thought about. But never mind 2760, they would have had 7,000 odd buff log books at any one time. If you add the Aldenham overhaul process in to the mix it would have made conventional log books even more complicated. I can imagine London Transport saying to the DVLA, 'look, this is what we're doing' and DVLA just shrugging with a 'yeah whatever'. They probably wouldn't want the hassle. 

haha yeah I figured it was a bit out there! I think Im pretty unique in my obsession in un-ravelling the UK's registration system so to speak LOL

 

yeah I was thinking about all the RT's and RF's as well!, but back then the DVLA was not a thing, (well from 1965 it was but it only handled licensing as in driver licences etc) vehicle wise everything was handled by local county councils and the such like

with MoT (ministry of transport) overseeing things, like it was the MoT that said "right from 1st of January 1965, all county councils must switch to suffix marks, irrespective of any suffix-less marks still left over"

so if London Transport had any special agreement it would of been with the London Council and maybe the MoT?

 

I do wonder tho on the DVLC/DVLA front how London Transport handled things when the DVLC did finally take over from the county councils, and computerisation commenced on the 1st of October 1974...

from that date onwards all new vehicle registered where registered with the DVLC on their new fangled computer system and given V5's and existing vehicles could be transferred from their buff logbooks to the computer system from the 1st of October 1974 onwards to to about December 1983, after which you had to plead your case, this was done because lots of people where forging and faking logbooks and the such like to get Juicy registration marks etc

 

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An older combined bus has come up for sale here in Norway. 1974 Volvo B57 55 is not often they appear for sale now this has been used by a motorsport team in the last years and has room for 1 car in the back. 3026 punds.

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https://www.finn.no/b2b/bus/ad.html?finnkode=238613531

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43 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

haha yeah I figured it was a bit out there! I think Im pretty unique in my obsession in un-ravelling the UK's registration system so to speak LOL

 

yeah I was thinking about all the RT's and RF's as well!, but back then the DVLA was not a thing, (well from 1965 it was but it only handled licensing as in driver licences etc) vehicle wise everything was handled by local county councils and the such like

with MoT (ministry of transport) overseeing things, like it was the MoT that said "right from 1st of January 1965, all county councils must switch to suffix marks, irrespective of any suffix-less marks still left over"

so if London Transport had any special agreement it would of been with the London Council and maybe the MoT?

 

I do wonder tho on the DVLC/DVLA front how London Transport handled things when the DVLC did finally take over from the county councils, and computerisation commenced on the 1st of October 1974...

from that date onwards all new vehicle registered where registered with the DVLC on their new fangled computer system and given V5's and existing vehicles could be transferred from their buff logbooks to the computer system from the 1st of October 1974 onwards to to about December 1983, after which you had to plead your case, this was done because lots of people where forging and faking logbooks and the such like to get Juicy registration marks etc

 

London Transport were a law unto themselves as ringing was officially sanctioned. That is, an RT bearing a certain registration would arrive at Aldenham works and be taken into the overhaul process. Very soon after another fully overhauled RT would drive out with the same number plate but nothing else in common with the first bus.It wouldn't have the same chassis, and it might even have a body  built by a different coach builder, with differences in appearance.The bus for overhaul would be taken apart, and when the major units had been overhauled they would probably not come together with one another, but be combined into a different combination and sent out with some other registration. I don't think any other organisation were allowed to do that. I'm not sure if that carried on with the RM.

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22 minutes ago, artdjones said:

London Transport were a law unto themselves as ringing was officially sanctioned. That is, an RT bearing a certain registration would arrive at Aldenham works and be taken into the overhaul process. Very soon after another fully overhauled RT would drive out with the same number plate but nothing else in common with the first bus.It wouldn't have the same chassis, and it might even have a body  built by a different coach builder, with differences in appearance.The bus for overhaul would be taken apart, and when the major units had been overhauled they would probably not come together with one another, but be combined into a different combination and sent out with some other registration. I don't think any other organisation were allowed to do that. I'm not sure if that carried on with the RM.

oh yeah im well aware of what Aldenham did and indeed they did the same thing with RM's (although RM's do not have Chassis, but are a monocoque design with separate A and B frames, so you could have an RM made of about 3 different RM's wearing the identity of a completely different RM LOL, at least RML2760 retains its original body, I think! I hope so anyways as that my personal favourite RM :)

although I do wonder on RT's if LT transferred  over the chassis plates if RT's even had them, or not, and I wonder how much of a PITA has this been for bus enthusiasts when they have to send off for a V62 for an RT LOL (figuring out what "chassis number" to stick on a V62 for for an RM is piss easy)

 

but what im curious about here, is how did it work from a paperwork stand point, as in regardless of whatever vehicle the registration number LYF354 was actually on, Im wondering who actually held the buff logbook (and later V5 in the case of RM's and later buses) for that registration mark

and was there even a buff logbook in the first place or did London Transport have its own special setup?

 

im also curious if there was a buff logbook, what it actually said on it, did it actually say "AEC Routemaster" for make and model? :) (and again I wonder what was put down for the "keeper" of the vehicle)

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10 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh yeah im well aware of what Aldenham did and indeed they did the same thing with RM's (although RM's do not have Chassis, but are a monocoque design with separate A and B frames, so you could have an RM made of about 3 different RM's wearing the identity of a completely different RM LOL, at least RML2760 retains its original body, I think! I hope so anyways as that my personal favourite RM :)

although I do wonder on RT's if LT transferred  over the chassis plates if RT's even had them, or not, and I wonder how much of a PITA has this been for bus enthusiasts when they have to send off for a V62 for an RT LOL (figuring out what "chassis number" to stick on a V62 for for an RM is piss easy)

 

but what im curious about here, is how did it work from a paperwork stand point, as in regardless of whatever vehicle the registration number LYF354 was actually on, Im wondering who actually held the buff logbook (and later V5 in the case of RM's and later buses) for that registration mark

and was there even a buff logbook in the first place or did London Transport have its own special setup?

 

im also curious if there was a buff logbook, what it actually said on it, did it actually say "AEC Routemaster" for make and model? :) (and again I wonder what was put down for the "keeper" of the vehicle)

I think London Transport had their own chassis plates, I'm not sure if they were swopped to a new chassis on overhaul. Of course each chassis had a Leyland or AEC chassis plate, but I don't think they were taken account of in the overhaul process.

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28 minutes ago, artdjones said:

I think London Transport had their own chassis plates, I'm not sure if they were swopped to a new chassis on overhaul.

I highly doubt they got swapped. After all, a chassis number is exactly that - the unique* ID of the chassis. In terms of the chassis alone, the body and registration plate it wears are completely irrelevant.

Changing the chassis plate from one chassis to another would create an administrative nightmare, not only in tracking which mechanical parts had received what maintenance, but also in a world before electronic data storage imagine how much paperwork would be involved in arranging, monitoring and recalling all the chassis back to the workshop at the correct interval.

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1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

An older combined bus has come up for sale here in Norway. 1974 Volvo B57 55 is not often they appear for sale now this has been used by a motorsport team in the last years and has room for 1 car in the back. 3026 punds.

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https://www.finn.no/b2b/bus/ad.html?finnkode=238613531

What a fabulously useful vehicle. Four seats and a bunk bed for a touring holiday or if you just need to go and pick a car up you can. Indeed, we could drive the Škoda to Norway then stick it in the back and drive the bus/Škoda combo home. Perfect. And £3k seems a bargain. 

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LT used a chassis number and a body number as well as the fleet number (tied to the registration number and as built the same as the fleet number). The idea was to save on road fund licences and paperwork on overhaul. At the start of the overhaul process for the type, a number entered the works and effectively disappeared for a number of years. The next one in for overhaul lost its identity (fleet and reg no) which was transferred onto an overhauled example. This saved the paperwork involved in de-taxing and re-taxing a bus every time one entered or left overhaul. At the end of the overhaul process, the ‘lost’ fleet and registration numbers suddenly reappeared!

RMs were slightly different as they had no chassis as such to have a number. What they did have was a front and rear subframe and they were given A or B numbers. An RM in for overhaul could then leave not only with a different body number than it originally had but a different A frame number and a different B frame number in a combination that was never as built. Just to add to the confusion, the works built a number of their own A and B frames in house which gained different numbers again. 

Right at the end of overhauls of RMs, an effort was made to reunite early fleet numbers with their respective body numbers as early bodies were slightly different to later ones. The A and B frame numbers however could still end up fairly random.

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19 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

LT used a chassis number and a body number as well as the fleet number (tied to the registration number and as built the same as the fleet number). The idea was to save on road fund licences and paperwork on overhaul. At the start of the overhaul process for the type, a number entered the works and effectively disappeared for a number of years. The next one in for overhaul lost its identity (fleet and reg no) which was transferred onto an overhauled example. This saved the paperwork involved in de-taxing and re-taxing a bus every time one entered or left overhaul. At the end of the overhaul process, the ‘lost’ fleet and registration numbers suddenly reappeared!

RMs were slightly different as they had no chassis as such to have a number. What they did have was a front and rear subframe and they were given A or B numbers. An RM in for overhaul could then leave not only with a different body number than it originally had but a different A frame number and a different B frame number in a combination that was never as built. Just to add to the confusion, the works built a number of their own A and B frames in house which gained different numbers again. 

Right at the end of overhauls of RMs, an effort was made to reunite early fleet numbers with their respective body numbers as early bodies were slightly different to later ones. The A and B frame numbers however could still end up fairly random.

to further add to that, theres a lovely film called Overhaul which shows the whole operation quite nicely with RT's :) 

 

but I still dont have an answer for the whole paperwork/logbook side of things LOL

I almost wonder if the vehicles where ledgered into the London County council registration ledger, with the keeper down as "London Transport 55 Broadway SW1" covering all the applicable registration marks in one massive curly bracket (like how it was done for Invacars) 

but no logbooks actually produced unless needed, say if the vehicle was being sold off or such

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19 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

Right at the end of overhauls of RMs, an effort was made to reunite early fleet numbers with their respective body numbers as early bodies were slightly different to later ones

You mean swoping reg plates between vehicles so it matched the body number. 

Last time I saw A1000 front sub frame it was laid on its side at the back of Negumbo depot in Sri Lanka.

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4 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

but no logbooks actually produced unless needed, say if the vehicle was being sold off or such

At least one ex London RT attracted the attention of Scottish vehicle examiners as the chassis plates didn't match the log book. It ended up being re-registered, don't ask me which one, try Google (I've seen a pic of it).

 

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