Bus Shite

[Inspector Morose]

5 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

This is the Prototype Railcar that spawned Pacer and Class 153 family... 

 

Via the missing link...

[808 Estate]

[martc]

Arkengarthdale Post Office in December 1962, looks like a Bedford to me - Duple body?

[Inspector Morose]

I’d hazard a guess at Mulliner. Duple generally had a curved waistline. 

[martc]

'Bus to the Airport' photo by Evgeny Umnov, USSR, 1964.

As we all know it is in fact a coach. And more to the point it's a ZIS 127 'Moskva'; with it's aluminium body, luxury upholstered seats and built in radio and speakers for entertainment it was the first luxury coach in the USSR.

Phun phact ZIS = Sawod Imeni Stalina (Stalin's factory) after Uncle Joe's death the state rapidly disassociated itself from him and the name was changed to the better known ZIL - Sawod Imeni Likhacheva (Likhacheva was the director of the plant). The last Moskva's made were in fact badged as ZIL's.

[Dyslexic Viking]

27 minutes ago, martc said:

Arkengarthdale Post Office in December 1962, looks like a Bedford to me - Duple body?

Yes it's Bedford. There were also some of these in Norway.

[Metal Guru]

15 hours ago, 83C said:

Like this?

http://preserved.railcar.co.uk/LEV1.html

Yes

[Inspector Morose]

Bus preservation is sometimes very similar to preserving a car, just bigger. Spares for your restoration can only be sometimes obtained from scrapyards and removed by your own fair hands.

After buying 'Jumbo' Fleetline 3997 our group scoured the lists and pages to track down any other surviving member so that we could acquire as many spares as we could before they were all gone. Nearly 15 years since one had operated in the west midlands, the pickings were very few and far between. A contact informed us that 3906 (SOE906H) had just been part exchanged at Ensign bus, the dealer, and was available for spares. A number of phone calls later, and with much to-ing and fro-ing on prices, a group of us assembled one morning with a hired Luton van for the trip down south.

3906 had obviously been used as school transport; it had been the subject of a rudimentary single door conversion and the extra seats fitted could never have had anyone larger than a child in them they were that close together. Sadly, it was obviously at the end of its life but fortunately for us, it could yield many unique spares for 3997 including a complete front dome (3997s was pretty badly damaged).
 

[Inspector Morose]

By 1995 there was just one WMPTE 'Jumbo' Fleetline left in public service. This was 3975 (SOE975H) operated by Jolly Rodger Coaches of Pocklington in the East Riding of Yorkshire. We had come across this bus before when purchasing 3997 from Partridge coaches a few years previously; this bus had been sitting at their yard - we had commented then that it seemed in very good condition for it to be scrapped.
We made contact with Jolly Rodger (run by a captain Birdeye lookalike it seemed) and after much discourse, we borrowed it to accompany our Jumbo to a rally at Bridlington in March of that year. As we had been added to their insurance for this, every time we visited Jolly Rodger we were pressganged into operating some school service or other. We did get the pick of the fleet though, and what a fleet it was. Choice of a chariot was from this, another later WMPTE Fleetline that had been blown on its side at least once, single deck ex-Darlington Fleetlines (a rare thing in itself) and a few others. 

Sadly time moved on and the traffic commissioners caught up with this most outpost of outposts and Jolly Rodger had his operators licence taken off him, something about a relaxed attitude towards paperwork and, erm, anything official really. He wasn't a cowboy operator though; the fleet was always kept safe and well maintained, he just didn't believe in the rigmarole involved with the 'other', legal stuff!
Sadly 3975 dropped off the radar (pre internet forums on every street corner) and the last known mentions were that it had been broken for spares for the restoration of 3913 (SOE913H).
And that's where the tale got murky. We had visited 3913 in the past and took a fairly comprehensive review of it. Without a doubt, '75 was in far better condition both structurally and mechanically than 13. I've no doubt that '13 undertook a comprehensive rebuild but if you've two side by side and one has a far better structure, which one would you restore?

[Inspector Morose]

Back to Sheffield again. Where else could you ride on a Bristol RELH to Penistone? 223FWW was an ex-United Counties machine that had been given a complete rebuild at Plaxton in the mid-'80s and so was a pretty good secondhand purchase for Northern Bus.

OKW515R was a real oddball. While initially looking like an ex-London DMS Fleetline, this was one of a batch of 30 that was ordered new by Sheffield with a DMS lookalike body but with a provincial specification chassis. All of the bespoke London features were not present on this bus, note the low driving position as well.

OKW515R is yet another bus captured by my mystic future preservation chooser, it survives and is undergoing a very complete restoration at the Sheffield bus museum as the last survivor of this unique combination of body and chassis.

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, Inspector Morose said:

OKW515R was a real oddball. While initially looking like an ex-London DMS Fleetline, this was one of a batch of 30 that was ordered new by South Yorkshire PTE

OKW515R is yet another bus captured by my mystic future preservation chooser, it survives and is undergoing a very complete restoration at the South Yorkshire Transport Trust as the last survivor of this unique combination of body and chassis.

Corrected a couple of things for you, as you'd expect.

Desperate for new buses, Daimler could supply the 30 chassis the PTE wanted but Alexander were fully booked. The only body builder prepared to offer to take on the job in the timescale the PTE wanted were MCW, and then, on the condition that they were fitted in amongst a large batch for London so would be DMS style bodies. We were all hoping for them to be pure DMSs, but MCW fitted PTE style blinds and brown interior trim.

[Inspector Morose]

@busmansholidaydid you see the easter egg in a previous post? There’s another SYPTE DMS-a-like belonging to Grey Green in the yard next to Ensigns.

Any Idea on which one it could be by any chance?

 

Edit: crikey they had a few. Never knew that.

[busmansholiday]

Not off the top my head unfortunately. Almost all found new owners, and a fair few went to London area operators. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Inspector Morose said:

Back to Sheffield again. Where else could you ride on a Bristol RELH to Penistone? 223FWW was an ex-United Counties machine that had been given a complete rebuild at Plaxton in the mid-'80s and so was a pretty good secondhand purchase for Northern Bus.

OKW515R was a real oddball. While initially looking like an ex-London DMS Fleetline, this was one of a batch of 30 that was ordered new by Sheffield with a DMS lookalike body but with a provincial specification chassis. All of the bespoke London features were not present on this bus, note the low driving position as well.

OKW515R is yet another bus captured by my mystic future preservation chooser, it survives and is undergoing a very complete restoration at the Sheffield bus museum as the last survivor of this unique combination of body and chassis.

ooh thats a funky thing  (weird seeing a DMS Err I mean Fleetline like that with a Non London Registration mark!)

their story reminds me of the St Helens RT's

[Inspector Morose]

Strangely enough, ordered by one R Edgeley Cox. Now where did we see this name before?

[Inspector Morose]

A good example of the lengths to which Walsall used to modify buses. Here is Walsall 875, a second hand BUT trolleybus bought from the Grimsby Cleethorpes system when that closed down its trolleybuses in 1960. The when bus purchased looked nothing like this at all. When towed to Walsall it was a rear loading, rear staircase 27-foot long trolleybus.

Soon after arrival at Walsall, this bus, along with two others purchased were de-bodied and the chassis was sent to AEC to have their original frames replaced with ones from a 30 foot Regent. While the chassis was away, the bodies were not only lengthened but the entrance and staircase were moved from the rear to behind the driver, to the position favoured by R Edgley Cox.

Not to be seen to be wasting money, the destination equipment and layout weren't changed from their Grimsby days apart from the mounting of the glass in rubber. These high capacity rebuilds lasted well, surviving to the end of the Walsall system in October 1970.

[lesapandre]

Great thread -   as an aside I am old enough to remember (just) the Walsall trolly bus system in operation.

[busmansholiday]

Looking at the records and there were actually 29 of them with MCW bodies. OKW501-528R and SHE507S (1529).

Looks like Grey Green had least 501, 503, 506, 519, 523, 525, 526, 527, 528. Several others were also used down in the smoke.

[cms206]

Strathclyde's AV10 had somewhat of a coming together with some infrastructure in the mid 80s and was withdrawn prematurely.

Strathclyde had some success with converting eight Leyland Atlanteans to single deck and AV10 was duly pulled into the works at Larkfield and rebuilt as a single decker, complete with R-type Ailsa style front and rear end but retaining the panoramic windows unique to AV1-18. It emerged in 1986 as AS2 in the "dual purpose" livery normally seen on Strathclyde's coach fleet. AS1 was NHS 782Y, the unique 51-seat Marshall Camair bodied Mk3 Ailsa new as a single decker in 1983 and known by drivers as "The Coffin".

AS2 settled down and led a fairly long life, seeing out many of it's sister AVs which had been lost in the Larkfield fire in 1992 which incidentally claimed AS1 as a victim along with early prototype Leyland Olympian LO1 (VGB 364W) and the last of the trio of pre-production Ailsa in service, AV3 (GGG 302N). Prototype Volvo Citybus AH1, ESU 378X which also featured Marshall bodywork was driven out of the shed on fire but was repaired and lasted until 1997.

By late 1993 AS2 was suffering from advanced structural issues and it passed to Black Prince, Morley for spares; it was deemed "good enough" and was repainted and entered service despite it's by then alarming front end droop (as seen in the final photo here before it left Glasgow). It's end came in November 1994 when it was discovered that despite having now been a single decker for as long as it had been a double decker, it had never actually been recertified as such and it was broken for spares.

Today a grand total of three of the 152 Ailsas purchased new by GGPTE and it's successors are known to survive; AV1, AV8 and later A109.

 

I've included a shot of AV4 from the same batch for comparison, showing the round domes and panoramic windows unique to AV4-18.

[Eyersey1234]

Why did it get a front end droop? 

[Inspector Morose]

Engine at the front weighed heavy on the platform, the upper deck structure contributed a fair bit to the strength of the chassis.

It came to BP with a fair bit of ticket left on it so true to their form, it was painted and put into service. By that time, not only was the front sagging but the rear was heading the same way making it look very banana like. 
It was prepped for test but the examiner at the test station found the oversight of recertification and point blank refused to test it, putting a marker against it so it couldn’t be sneaked in when the tester wasn’t there. To recertify it, they insisted it needed tilt testing (it didn’t) - the cost was found to be far in excess of what the thing was worth and so it was stripped for spares. 
AV8 (MGE183P) also ran for Black Prince and I have had the pleasure of piloting that one.

[reb]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, Amishtat said:

I doubt anyone on here would deny that they were strange, I certainly wouldn't. But seriously, must you drag these deplorable tricycles into every thread?  You have your own thread devoted to the revolting contraptions. Two hundred and forty seven pages of semi-literate drivel of interest to about seven people in the known universe and it's never off the first page. 

Also, and perhaps a point of sheer pedantry: A daily driver is, by its very definition, a vehicle which is or is capable of being driven daily. Your example fails to currently meet said criteria. Thanks to the efforts of Red5 this situation may change imminently but at the moment it is a static exhibit. Which, in my opinion, it should remain. I accept that you're aspie or whatever it is we call the cerebrally-lethargic these enlightened days but seriously, give the subject a rest or keep it within its boundaries. 

Sits back and awaits the inevitable flaming from the usual cabal of right-on coneheads. 

 

Isn't there a general rule about not being a cunt on here? Show us on the doll where the invacar touched you.

[cms206]

Glasgow Corporation and their successors purchased over 1400 Leyland Atlanteans new, with examples from LA2 upwards featuring the stylish, curved domed Alexander bodywork which became common until the early 1980s. LA751 (NGB 119M) introduced a new style with panoramic windows similar to what had been standard in Edinburgh from their first Atlantean deliveries 1966.   By the time these early Glasgow Panoramics were coming due for their first overhaul structural problems were becoming apparant; stress fractures, particularly around the rear wheelarches were common, largely because these Atlanteans were prone to body flex due to mismatched window pillars on opposite sides of the lower deck meaning the frame was not continuous up and over the bus, along with the (continuing to this day) poor state of Glasgow's roads.

By the 1980 delivery of the LA1311-1350 batch Glasgow were acutely aware of these issues and after 600 were delivered, LA1350 became the last Glasgow panoramic Atlantean; the change to short bay bodywork was made to the order for the final 99 Atlanteans.

Several attempts were made to remedy these issues; LA1324 (LSU 381V) was involved in a serious RTA when only months old and emerged from the Larkfield bus works rebuilt with short bay windows on the lower deck, similar to work carried out by the bus works on McGill of Barrhead's panoramic Daimler Fleetlines XHS 923/4H in 1977. Similar modifications were carried out to LA1180 (UGG 399R) and LA1330 (LSU 387V) but these intensive rebuilds were not considered cost effective and further buses were only strengthened under the skin. 

For most Atlanteans in the LA751-LA1050 batches, early withdrawal without rectification was the cheapest solution and as such many of the earlier AN68 Atlanteans new with short bay bodywork continued in service after their much younger siblings were disposed of - LA664, HGD 870L was still in service as late as May 1997 while many of the LA751-1050 batch never saw ten years service in Glasgow.

Faced with huge numbers of not terribly elderly deckers heading for premature withdrawal, during 1983 Strathclyde converted three of these 600 panoramic Atlanteans to single deck for Glasgow Rail Link route 98 (nowadays the 398) followed in 1984 by a further five for various services including Drumchapel Interlink service 96 and service 43 between Summerston and Ruchill which used a (very!) low bridge on Lochburn Road in Maryhill.

They were as follows:

SA1 - SGA 733N (ex-LA850)

SA2 - JUS 777N (ex-LA930)

SA3 - KSU 838P (ex-LA962)

SA4 - GNS 663N (ex-LA871)

SA5 - KSU 855P (ex-LA979)

SA6 - TGE 836R (ex-LA1117)

SA7 - JGA 200N (ex-LA918)

SA8 - JUS 785N (ex-LA938)

 

Of these, SAs 1-3, 5 & 7 were withdrawn in November 1988, SA4 & 8 in April 1989 and SA6 lasted until March 1990 with a second owner, with all giving 5-6 years service after conversion.

As far as I'm aware was the only one of the SAs to pass to another operator was SA6 to Webb of Galleywood where it was repainted green & white. I would assume that as happened four years later with Ailsa AS2 at Black Prince mentioned earlier, the Ministry got a hold of it at MOT time and deemed it in requirement of costly recertification and as such it was withdrawn from use by Webb before it was recorded as passing to the Dancing Diggers display team; it's last V5 was issued in May 1992 after which I suspect it too was scrapped.

I thought I had photos of all eight, but it seems I'm missing SA8. Have some photos of SA1-7 at various points in their single deck careers, including SA5 at the aforementioned low bridge at Lochburn Road.

[Spiny Norman]

22 minutes ago, cms206 said:

 

Lochburn Road. I remember doing deliveries for the old Comet Clearance place in Possil, charging happily down past the scrappy in our Luton Tranny van and just remembering at the last minute that there was over four feet of box above my head... 😛

[Eyersey1234]

4 hours ago, reb said:

Isn't there a general rule about not being a cunt on here? Show us on the doll where the invacar touched you.

I agree, I've no problem with people not liking Invacars, but to stoop to personal insults is wrong. 

[wuvvum]

50 minutes ago, cms206 said:

Glasgow Corporation and their successors purchased over 1400 Leyland Atlanteans new, with examples from LA2 upwards featuring the stylish, curved domed Alexander bodywork which became common until the early 1980s. LA751 (NGB 119M) introduced a new style with panoramic windows similar to what had been standard in Edinburgh from their first Atlantean deliveries 1966.   By the time these early Glasgow Panoramics were coming due for their first overhaul structural problems were becoming apparant; stress fractures, particularly around the rear wheelarches were common, largely because these Atlanteans were prone to body flex due to mismatched window pillars on opposite sides of the lower deck meaning the frame was not continuous up and over the bus, along with the (continuing to this day) poor state of Glasgow's roads.

By the 1980 delivery of the LA1311-1350 batch Glasgow were acutely aware of these issues and after 600 were delivered, LA1350 became the last Glasgow panoramic Atlantean; the change to short bay bodywork was made to the order for the final 99 Atlanteans.

Several attempts were made to remedy these issues; LA1324 (LSU 381V) was involved in a serious RTA when only months old and emerged from the Larkfield bus works rebuilt with short bay windows on the lower deck, similar to work carried out by the bus works on McGill of Barrhead's panoramic Daimler Fleetlines XHS 923/4H in 1977. Similar modifications were carried out to LA1180 (UGG 399R) and LA1330 (LSU 387V) but these intensive rebuilds were not considered cost effective and further buses were only strengthened under the skin. 

For most Atlanteans in the LA751-LA1050 batches, early withdrawal without rectification was the cheapest solution and as such many of the earlier AN68 Atlanteans new with short bay bodywork continued in service after their much younger siblings were disposed of - LA664, HGD 870L was still in service as late as May 1997 while many of the LA751-1050 batch never saw ten years service in Glasgow.

Faced with huge numbers of not terribly elderly deckers heading for premature withdrawal, during 1983 Strathclyde converted three of these 600 panoramic Atlanteans to single deck for Glasgow Rail Link route 98 (nowadays the 398) followed in 1984 by a further five for various services including Drumchapel Interlink service 96 and service 43 between Summerston and Ruchill which used a (very!) low bridge on Lochburn Road in Maryhill.

They were as follows:

SA1 - SGA 733N (ex-LA850)

SA2 - JUS 777N (ex-LA930)

SA3 - KSU 838P (ex-LA962)

SA4 - GNS 663N (ex-LA871)

SA5 - KSU 855P (ex-LA979)

SA6 - TGE 836R (ex-LA1117)

SA7 - JGA 200N (ex-LA918)

SA8 - JUS 785N (ex-LA938)

 

Of these, SAs 1-3, 5 & 7 were withdrawn in November 1988, SA4 & 8 in April 1989 and SA6 lasted until March 1990 with a second owner, with all giving 5-6 years service after conversion.

As far as I'm aware was the only one of the SAs to pass to another operator was SA6 to Webb of Galleywood where it was repainted green & white. I would assume that as happened four years later with Ailsa AS2 at Black Prince mentioned earlier, the Ministry got a hold of it at MOT time and deemed it in requirement of costly recertification and as such it was withdrawn from use by Webb before it was recorded as passing to the Dancing Diggers display team; it's last V5 was issued in May 1992 after which I suspect it too was scrapped.

I thought I had photos of all eight, but it seems I'm missing SA8. Have some photos of SA1-7 at various points in their single deck careers, including SA5 at the aforementioned low bridge at Lochburn Road.

Don't think I've ever seen a single-deck Atlantean before.  Odd looking beast weren't they?  I imagine they went well though.

[wuvvum]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:04 PM, cms206 said:

and no right hand lock.

That's an odd one!  What caused that?  Was the tracking massively out or something?

[Eyersey1234]

34 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Don't think I've ever seen a single-deck Atlantean before.  Odd looking beast weren't they?  I imagine they went well though.

I agree they were odd looking. EY standardised on Atlanteans and VRs throughout the 70s before moving on to Olympians in the 80s though by the time I started in 2007 the Atlanteans had all gone and there was a couple of open top VRs left, one of which was used as a tree lopper

[Eyersey1234]

The last Plaxton Presidents recently left EY, passing to Ellie Rose of Hull. Here is a picture of one of them, fleet number 673 seen in Bridlington in 2010.

[wuvvum]

3 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I agree they were odd looking. EY standardised on Atlanteans and VRs throughout the 70s and 80s though by the time I started in 2007 the Atlanteans had all gone and there was a couple of open top VRs left, one of which was used as a tree lopper

When I moved to Oxford in 1986 the double deckers were mainly Atlanteans and VRs, with the occasional Olympian on certain routes.  The Atlanteans were mostly either K or P plate, the VRs mainly T and V.  I did get very excited one day though when an open-topped H-plate (1970) VR turned up on the route I took to get to school.