The Range Rover Appreciation Thread

[Six-cylinder]

12 hours ago, MAF260 said:

I've had 3:

I swore myself off them after that, but keep looking at L405s from time to time.

The L405 is a maintenance nightmare unless it is newish and under warrantee.

Mine is under 50k miles but it still got to 7 years old and said open wide, yes my wallet!

[jonathan_dyane]

I have an unnatural desire for a TD6 L322 which hopefully I will have the sense to resist.

Just how hard is the ZF6 gearbox retrofit @83C ?

A P38 DSE would probably be less trouble and certainly less rusty I know...

[Six-cylinder]

I said in my Range Rover post before I owned one in 2002 I drove my friend's Steve's ones. He used to have several classics. I can tell you a manual 3 door non-power steering classic is hard work and the 4 speeds need overdrive, which one of his had. He also used to have a classic with a VM diesel engine and that was so under powered it was dangerous. I met him yesterday and he sent me some pictures and updated me that he now has another P38 this time a 2002 4.6. We both had  P38 4.6HSE at the same time, mine a 1997 his a 1998, his did 14 mpg in permanent sport mode and mine 16 mpg. 

[NorthernMonkey]

I’m on my 5th now. The first one was an F reg 3.5 classic which wallowed around corners like an inebriated rhinoceros and had a tendency to overheat but is still memorable in a good way.

That was followed by a couple of P38s from on here, a 2.5 diesel and a 4.0 V8 spares car.

Number 4 was a 3.6 TDV8 L322 bought on the spur of the moment from a bloke who sold me a pair of seats for my Defender and which was my daily for a good while until @The Moog killed it whilst chasing me back over Saddleworth moor from BCA Brighouse and a turbo gave up. I’ll never forget glancing in the rear view mirror of the i10 I’d just collected and seeing clouds of black smoke in the distance.

The current one is a 4.2 supercharged V8 bought on here a couple of weeks ago from @J-T and formerly belonging to @Wack. It’s the exact year and spec I’ve been looking out for over the past 12 months, as well as having my favourite Autobiography interior and without doubt the best colour. Yes, it’s got a few minor issues but they will be sorted out over the next few months as time permits. Having owned literally hundreds of cars, there are very few indeed that make me glance over my shoulder or look forward to driving but this is without doubt one of them…definitely a keeper!

[83C]

34 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

I have an unnatural desire for a TD6 L322 which hopefully I will have the sense to resist.

Just how hard is the ZF6 gearbox retrofit @83C ?

A P38 DSE would probably be less trouble and certainly less rusty I know...

Don’t honestly know, it’s something that I need to find out about at some point. I wouldn’t fear the GM box though, if it shifts cleanly with no slurring or flaring between gears then budget for a fluid change, drop the pan and clean it out, make sure there’s no swarf in there and it should be fine. 

P38’s greatest strength is its corrosion resistance, I doubt there’s been a Land Rover before or since that is quite so well protected against corrosion. Mid-production L322s seem pretty good, but some of the rust I’ve seen on late ones is pretty shocking for the age and mileage - I wonder if some economising on either the steel or the protective coatings occurred between 2007-2012. 

I don’t know that a P38 would be less trouble overall, both the M51 2.5 and M57 3.0 diesels are hardy bits of kit and don’t really give trouble but obviously the extra 50+bhp of the M57 is more than welcome. If we’re talking petrol powered V8s then in my onion the 4.0 is the one to go for in P38, less powerful but also less likely to slip liners (not impossible though). Fact is however that both the M62 and AJV8 units in the L322 are far better units than the prehistoric Buick V8, loads more power and also more economical. 

The rest of the running gear is ok, P38 wheel bearings are supposed be a bit of an arse of a job though. Air suspension is much better understood these days and hopefully nobody is junking it anymore ‘because coils are less trouble.’ The fact is that a coil conversion ruins the ride quality, the whole point of the air setup is to make what is a heavy car ride nicely. 

Like most cars a good diagnostics system is vital, the Nanocom seems to be the recommended kit for P38 but my iCarsoft all makes unit seems fine for the L322 apart from really in-depth stuff like calibrating ride height sensors. 

L322 definitely wins out in terms of space, it’s a bigger car all around. I always found that I was a bit of a tight fit in terms of legroom and head height in a P38, but still comfortable for long journeys. However, I’m excessively tall and fat.

Electronics - if the P38 BECM shits itself it’s a ballache. The L322 electronics are largely BMW, but there’s a lot of it and they really need a good battery - biggest one that will fit is a 1000CCA unit. More electrics means more to fail and have fun chasing with a multimeter too. 

I don’t know that from a reliability/ownership prospect whether either P38 or L322 are significantly better or worse than one another, both can be fantastic places to pass the miles when they work well, and comfortable places to sit and wait for the AA. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, some time ago a friend (in fact the previous owner of my L322) had a late 4.0 P38 Westminster and it was probably peak P38 for me. He replaced it after a few years with a very late 4.6 Autobiography (and then the L322), frustratingly at the time I couldn’t afford to buy the Westminster.

Both have the capability to smack your wallet in the bollocks, just go in eyes open and buy on condition.

[jonathan_dyane]

My wife's E39 has the same GM gearbox and is now approaching 250000 miles. No idea if the ATF has ever been changed or work done on the box. I'm too frightened to risk an ATF change in case it kills it!

[83C]

3 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

My wife's E39 has the same GM gearbox and is now approaching 250000 miles. No idea if the ATF has ever been changed or work done on the box. I'm too frightened to risk an ATF change in case it kills it!

They don’t seem to suffer the same issues in the E39, I guess due to less weight and no 4WD system to account for. 

[Jerzy Woking]

Nearest I came to RR ownership was putting the wheels from a Sport model on my VW T5.

[MAF260]

14 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

The L405 is a maintenance nightmare unless it is newish and under warrantee.

Mine is under 50k miles but it still got to 7 years old and said open wide, yes my wallet!

Thanks. This is exactly the sort of owner honesty I need to keep me away from another poor financial decision!

[dome]

Ah, my thread has arrived.

My first experience was in the early 2000s when I was selling a Nissan Silvia and was offered 2 Range Rover Classics as a swap. Naturally I said yes. One was a nice 87 or thereabouts 3.5 auto in burgundy, the other was a 1990 3.9 Manual in Ardennes(?) Green. 

I loved them both. The 3.5 was a bit too tidy for me so ended up getting sold. I remember it running out of fuel on the test drive but a purchase was agreed with me to deliver it to the new owner in Edinburgh. I put a gallon out of a can into it to get me to the fuel station and it ran out about 7 miles later 🤣

The 3.9 was far rougher but felt genuinely quick compared to the Auto so I smoked around in it for a while with a view to taking up offroading. It was pretty rusty underneath so I ended up swapping it for an ex traffic Discovery V8 with 299k miles on the clock. This got me into offroading for a fraction of the cost of a Defender yet with 80% of the ability-only the extra length let it down occasionally.

Fast forward a few years and the bug bit me again so I bought another Classic, another 1990 3.9 but this time an auto. More off roading was done and it always amused me being able to do crazy stuff in them whilst in absolute comfort compared to the Defender boys cramped into their little tonka toys😃

 

@Fraz pictured here looking stylish with it🤣

It's safe to say the big 4x4 bug had bit. As an aside the reason I love Jeep Grand Cherokees is that they feel a lot like a slightly more modern Classic. I'm on my second one of them, but that's another thread...

Come lockdown and with not doing so many miles the itch was starting again. I'd sniffed around P38s for a while but the L322 seemed a much better car for similar money. It's safe to say I got lucky, the early 4.4 BMW V8 car I bought had been mildly barried by the guy I bought it from but was a fundamentally sound car. It had a few issues but none more than you'd expect from a 20 year old car. Most of my problems were related to the BMW bits!

 

The L322 is peak Rangey IMO. Unbelievably smooth and special to drive, getting into one after a long day is like being home already. Get a good one and look after it and you won't regret it. 

[leakingstrut]

On 27/12/2024 at 09:44, captain_cal said:

My parents had a harvest gold T plate just like this. Made a lovely sound, absolutely drank fuel. It got swapped for a grim indenor powered Sierra. 

I worked at a Land Rover experience center for a while - they had post facelift SDV8 L405’s when I started. Looking at the amount of parts sharing with the cheaper models I wondered what you were getting for your money. 

But despite that they do feel special in ways that are hard to put a finger on. The heft, low NVH and driving position just feel perfect. I reckon they are the worst handling of the range - but that isn’t the point of them and being slightly wallowy is part of the charm. 

All the other larger cars had had the SDV6, I wondered what the point of the diesel V8 was - it didn’t feel special or much more powerful. Until we got SDV6 FFRR’s in the lead up to the L450 launch. While V6 felt powerful and premium in the Disco/Sport/Velar it was a bit underwhelming in the FFRR. This wasn’t helped by not having an active locking rear diff - on hard acceleration in corners or pulling out of junctions the diff makes a noticeable difference. The open diff cars feel a bit sloppier in comparison. 

Off road you needed to give it a bit more throttle to get the traction control to sort it out, where ones with the locking diff would pull away easily. 

I didn’t have as much time with the L450 before I left, it’s nice but I do prefer the sea of buttons / rotary shifter the L405 had, I’m not a big fan of the new gear shifter and most of the controls being on the screen. And the steering wheel buttons felt a bit cheap. The D350 six cylinder felt better than the SDV6 though. 

[captain_cal]

On 02/01/2025 at 12:09, leakingstrut said:

It got swapped for a grim indenor powered Sierra

Unlucky, this one got replaced by the below. I'm counting it for inclusion in this thread as it is essentially a two-door Range Rover stuffed underneath a Series body - from the factory, no less!

Don't think it had the standard restricted lump as it used to cruise at 80 in overdrive fourth! Rare old piece, could never find definite build numbers but reckon it was less than 30. This one was factory reg and has a cutout in the bed for a crane, so recovery truck of some sort - probably used in Lode Lane as no cunt would buy one in such a dreadful colour!

[Westbay]

Watched a fair few films over the festive break, and , why do the baddies all drive black Range Rovers ? 

[warninglight]

11 hours ago, captain_cal said:

probably used in Lode Lane as no cunt would buy one in such a dreadful colour!

 

A java green stage one HCPU is for winners. Love it!

[Boycie]

17 minutes ago, Westbay said:

Watched a fair few films over the festive break, and , why do the baddies all drive black Range Rovers ? 

Depends , if your watching any Essex boy or any of the Rise of the footsoldier films then there's a good chance of seeing a shot up Rangie 

[captain_cal]

14 minutes ago, warninglight said:

A java green stage one HCPU is for winners. Love it!

We think it's the only one they ever painted this colour. After a brief (13 years) sojourn in Holland, where it ended up languishing in a field with no engine, my dad finally got it back in 2022 and it is currently nearing the end of a rebuild 🙂

PS how do I get my photos to upload with non-dogshit compression?

[Pete-M]

On 26/12/2024 at 23:37, 83C said:

 

Anyone else similarly afflicted with these fine machines?

 

Yup. I've had many Range Rovers. All petrol, obvs. 

First was a D plate Vogue 3.5i back in 1995ish. To this day it's the only one I've experienced a failure to proceed in. 

Next was a black G plate 3.9 Vogue SE on gas. Ran that for about 15k miles. 

Then a H plate LHD 3.9i Vogue manual. I exported that to Greece. It dragged a very heavy trailer (approx 3.4999999t laden) all the way. 

Then was a gorgeous 92 Vogue SE in black with a tan leather interior. This had a ludicrously good LPG system that was worth double the cost of the Rangie. Rust had its way with this one, the next owner spent a year moaning about welding it up.. which was amusing as I told him it needed welding and offered him a rust free 89 3.5 with a tired engine for parts when he bought it. He didn't like that one as it was green. 

Then there was the Wood & Pickett / Janspeed turbo classic.. that was solid and had one hell of an engine in it, but it blew gearboxes for fun. 4HP22 box can't take more than about 280 lb ft. The turbo V8 did considerably more than that if you got ambitious with boost... 

Also had a few P38a. All 4.6. First was high miles but mega spec and history. Nice car. I lent that to a pal who told me he needed to collect a small boat from dahhhn sahhhhf.  Rangie did it but it killed the engine as it burnt hideous amounts of oil afterwards. It was only later he admitted the 'small boat' was 28 ft long, had dwarved the Rangie by about 6:1 and weighed considerably more than should be dragged by a Rangie. He did make up for it as he bought the Rangie off me. "Bend it, mend it".

Last one I had was another 4.6 P38. Bought that because it was cheap, guy who owned it only had one parking space, had advertised the Rangie for a few weeks at £3995 with no takers. Eventually he dropped the price to £500 *must go today* and I hit BIN. Sold that for £1500 a couple of months later.  It was totally reliable, but it felt like that wasn't going to last.. you know when you just get the Heebies in some cars?

I keep looking at L322s. I think I've missed that bus though as they've been through the depreciation curve and are going up in value for nice ones. Too many rusty jobs in my budget to think about one of those at the moment. 

They are the best car in the world though. 

 

[MAF260]

On 30/12/2024 at 09:31, MAF260 said:

I've had 3:

A dalliance with a year old 4.2 LSE around 1994 I think. It was very thirsty and I needed the funds to move house.

A P38 4.6 Vogue which was absolutely fantastic. Owned for 3 or 4 years and driven everywhere. It suffered the typical EAS compressor failure, but I can't remember any other significant issues. Sold when I bought my ex-wife a Shogun so we didn't need two big 4WD cars on the drive. Bought a Maserati 3200GT to replace it which emptied my wallet at a much faster rate, but started a long love affair with Maseratis.

A L322 4.4TDV8 Vogue. Ex-JLR management car, so was laden with every conceivable extra. A wonderful car and the most accomplished of the 3, but finally left the fleet after 3 years due to ongoing issues with the DPF. The latter years of ownership always included replacing some suspension components and sorting various oil leaks. It liked to eat front brakes (not expensive with ECP discount codes) and I had to have full geo adjustments each year to maintain tyre wear as it was very sensitive even though it was only ever used on the road (like most!). I swore myself off them after that, but keep looking at L405s from time to time.

My experience - there's nothing like them to drive, a real sense of occasion every time.

Digging through a load of old pics I've found one of each:

I think I've been put off any ideas of a L405 for a bit, but who knows what may happen in future if I have a moment of weakness/madness!

[Leyland Worldmaster]

The one I drove was a Vogue and it had the same interior and paint. It was a 3.0 Diesel BMW engine though:

 

[83C]

At the moment I'm stupid/brave/daft/fortunate enough to have a brace of L322s, both 2006 models, one with the BMW M57 and one with the Jaguar AJV8. I did say a few weeks ago that I'd write a post comparing them, so here goes. Both cars are from the first facelift where Land Rover started to move away from BMW components and updated the styling for the 2006 model year, registered just a couple of weeks apart.

Tonga Green AJV8 petrol on the left, Buckingham Blue M57 turbodiesel on the right. How do they compare?

I've liked the L322 for a long time, and Range Rovers in general for even longer. They're just such a good go anywhere, do anything machine. I bought the Buckingham Blue example in 2021 from a friend who'd had the car around 6 years and like most good deals, it was done in a pub several pints in. It's a BMW M57-powered Vogue SE, so that means 3.0 litres producing 177 bhp, a fair spread of torque and all fed though a gearbox renowned for having the strength and longevity you'd normally associate with wet bog roll. However, being an SE means it got pretty much every option including the perforated two tone leather, body coloured mirrors and door handles, TVs in the headrests, AV and Aux inputs, the nicer front grille and side vents, and whoever specced the car even went for the VentureCam option, which is a small wireless camera that can be used outside the car to display images on the central dash screen - apparently this was a £1700 option back in 2006. 

The only rot on the car is the rear n/s corner behind the arch - its surprisingly solid for a 19 year old car. 

The BMW M57 (also called Td6), probably the best diesel ever to come out of Bavaria. Shame they mated it to a shit gearbox. 

The dash is fairly tidy, everything is laid out nicely and there are no fiddly or awkward buttons - they're all big, chunky and able to be used even when wearing gloves. 

That famous view over the castellated bonnet, there really is nothing else like it.

The driver's seat has had a hard life, the silver side trim was already missing when I bought the car but the rip was entirely my fault - I had a work tool stuck in my belt and forgot it was there, before jumping in the car where it went straight through the leather. The damage has just grown from there, it's on the list of things to fix. Still the best seats I've ever had in a car though, I've done 10 hour days and jumped out feeling like I'd done 30 mins down the road. 

As an ownership experience it's been pretty hard to fault. Only once has it had an FTP, and even then it was a gradual issue that I put off for months before the car cried enough. It has consumed a fair bit in maintenance, as a complex, heavy car well on the wrong side of 200,000 miles might. In 25,000 miles I've replaced most of the suspension (much of it original), the prop and centre bearing (original), rear brake calipers, the starter motor (again, the original), the battery, air compressor, lower tailgate straps and a few small bits, and the rest has just been servicing. It's coming off the road for a couple of months because I've got a list of jobs to do including rear air suspension bags, a service, rear discs and pads, drivers seat repair, rear camber and toe adjustment bolt renewal, air conditioning compressor replacement, some more rustproofing and a few other things, which is why the Tonga Green car has been acquired. It's done everything ever asked of it, from long family trips fully laden to towing a 3.5t tri-axle trailer to dragging my sister's Defender out of snowdrifts. of all the cars that have come and gone it's the one that I've always trusted and relied upon, so putting some time, effort and money into getting it back towards a nice tidy condition is more than justified.

The Tonga Green car came to me from @Minimad5 and it's been through a few AS'ers who've all clearly looked after it.

Being a Vogue it does without a few of the fripperies of its slightly older sibling, but nothing that detracts from the driving experience. In place of the steady, plodding M57 it has the rather more exciting 4.4 AJV8 with 306bhp and a discreet but purposeful soundtrack to match its vast fuel consumption. It also benefits from a six-speed ZF 'box, which is what Land Rover should have fitted to the 3.0 diesel. The dark grey leather is in much better condition and feels a bit more hard wearing than the duotone leather in the Buckingham Blue car, but isn't quite as soft to sit in. 

The heart of the beast:

Dash is pretty much identical apart from the rev counter and trim colours.

The rubber floor mats are thick, chunky and extremely durable, so getting hold of a set for the Tonga Green car was a priority. The Buckingham Blue car had them from new and although they take a battering from beach excursions, mud, works car park grit, salt and whatever else, they always come up fresh after a quick wash off and hose down. 

Obviously the V8 hasn't been with me for long although I've already done over 1500 miles in it, but it's had replacement gas struts for the bonnet and bootlid (parts that were intended for the Buckingham Blue car) because I don't like weak bonnet struts dropping the bonnet on my head and the tailgate came down too quickly for my liking. There's also some replacement lower tailgate straps waiting to go on, the current ones look a bit crusty and I'd rather replace them before they fail, as happened to the other car. The lower tailgate on that car still bears the scars of when the old straps failed with a heavy object resting on the tailgate and it dropped onto the rear bumper ledge.

The cave. Rear loadbed is huge, and a full size spare wheel lives below the floor. Rear seats roll forward to make it even bigger. The split tailgate, a Range Rover feature from day one, makes loading and unloading easy. 

Driving them back to back is interesting, and maybe a bit surprising. Looking at the numbers, you'd expect the AJV8-powered car to be much quicker, and maybe you'd also want to imagine that the 3.0 diesel is a bit weedy for such a big, heavy car. Well, sort of. The AJV8 gets a shift on but it needs pushing to do so. The M57  won't set any speed records but it is solid and just gets on with things whether the car is empty, fully laden or dragging a big trailer. Drive the AJV8 at low revs and it won't feel any quicker than the diesel, it needs to be given a bootful to get it higher in the rev range where it really gets going. The ZF six speed gearbox definitely feels like an improvement over the GM 5L40E too. Obviously in terms of fuel economy the diesel six has the petrol V8 comprehensively beaten, with an overall average of 22mpg vs the 14.7mpg that I saw earlier today. However on the run the V8 is pretty good at not gulping through the fuel, the best I've seen so far is 25.7mpg at 70mph with the cruise on, getting fairly close to the 29mpg of the diesel in similar circumstances. The diesel is definitely noisier at low speeds but the V8 does sound so good that it does encourage hitting the loud pedal just to hear it. For distance cruising however both are quiet and refined. 

If I had to sell one it'd be the Tonga Green V8, partly because I'm quite attached to the old Buckingham Blue machine and partly because it does have a slightly better spec and does 650+ miles to a tankful on its regular trips to Cornwall. That's not to say it'd be an easy decision to sell, because the V8 does have its own merits and it's a very enjoyable machine to drive - it'll be the machine of choice for a European trip later this year because somehow a 4.4 petrol V8 kills fewer nuns and kittens than a 3.0 diesel when driving in cities. 

As I mentioned earlier the blue one will be coming off the road for a couple of months to give me chance to work through the faults without time pressures, I'd love to go full M539 on it and bring it right back to tip-top condition with a few upgrades but I'll settle for keeping on top of the jobs and maintenance as well as taking the chance to get it properly cleaned up. 

I couldn't honestly say one of these cars is better than the other, they are different and you might choose one over the other for your own reasons, but they're both excellent places to do a lot of miles in great comfort whilst being incredibly practical. 

[N Dentressangle]

Great write-up, thanks.

Do quite fancy a TD6 at some point.

[Minimad5]

@83C Awesome write up, glad you've still got the V8 machine (I do miss that soundtrack, firm pedal press when taking it upto 70mph to join the motorway 🎶 )

After our conversation I'm still highly considering a early Td6 L322, just need to find one within budget, and not too rusty.

[captain_cal]

How much you gonna want for the green one? Is an 06 plate £bumrape tax?

[Minimad5]

36 minutes ago, captain_cal said:

How much you gonna want for the green one? Is an 06 plate £bumrape tax?

Can personally vouch for it being mechanically sorted example.

[83C]

6 hours ago, captain_cal said:

How much you gonna want for the green one? Is an 06 plate £bumrape tax?

I don’t know yet, there’s a few jobs need doing on it but it won’t be for sale until much later this year anyway. 

Tax - this is an irritation:

Registered just 23 days apart, and even more annoyingly DE06 was registered on the first day (23/03/06) that the £howfuckingmuch tax started from.