Chumly 2024 - 8th September *EVERYONE IS STILL DRYING OUT*

[Gabriall]

it’s 3am Talbots asleep, I’ve woken up to absolute brutal dreams about fighting fires as my beautiful tiny car burns - wait…

They were in fact not tiny flames … they were in fact bloody massive flames which engolfed the wheel and were 15 foot tall - I remember it clearly … in my head.

Talbot did try and suffocate the flames with some flame proof overalls but it was too much … I knew there was beer in the boot of the merc but was dubious as to the flame quenching properties of pironi and also didn’t want to waste it . Fortunately I remembered a 2 litre bottle of water that we had thrown in the back seat of the merc some time ago … unfortunately Talbot didn’t remeber the 2 litre emergency water in the back of the merc …

apparently both of us had some concerns over opening the bonnet … specially following the reason the race 2CV is called toaster …regardless we popped it open and both of us retain our eyebrows . 
The ginormous flames (they were seriously) were quenched by the water , with the kind concerned and also terrified passerby looking on worriedly. I gave her a big hug and sent her on her way. 
My fellow building mate who I’ve met once and now taken her completely empty free garage! Ran down the stairs (lifts broken) with a bucket of water 

I don’t really remember were I was going with this or in fact where all the punctuation and spelling have gone, but it’s past three am and my first car show, showing off my own car has been somewhat memorable, and the irony was , in a day my underwear was soaked through by pershitant and pervasive rain … when the car caught fire (not tiny wispy flames you should have seen it!) was it raining … was it fuck.

safe to say , while Talbot made pizza … I ordered a fire extinguisher for the spitfire .

 

[New POD]

8 hours ago, Gabriall said:

Sooo lovely to meet everybody … was fun watching the who can get into the spitfire the most or least gracefully!

hope everybody is home safe …..

 

we had a bit of a mishap ….involving fire …

Fire ?

I think it's referred to as an unplanned thermal event. 🤯

[chaseracer]

2 hours ago, New POD said:

Fire ?

I think it's referred to as an unplanned thermal event. 🤯

This IS @Talbot - the English God of Fire.  The eventuality should at least be considered.

[beko1987]

5 hours ago, Gabriall said:

it’s 3am Talbots asleep, I’ve woken up to absolute brutal dreams about fighting fires as my beautiful tiny car burns - wait…

They were in fact not tiny flames … they were in fact bloody massive flames which engolfed the wheel and were 15 foot tall - I remember it clearly … in my head.

Talbot did try and suffocate the flames with some flame proof overalls but it was too much … I knew there was beer in the boot of the merc but was dubious as to the flame quenching properties of pironi and also didn’t want to waste it . Fortunately I remembered a 2 litre bottle of water that we had thrown in the back seat of the merc some time ago … unfortunately Talbot didn’t remeber the 2 litre emergency water in the back of the merc …

apparently both of us had some concerns over opening the bonnet … specially following the reason the race 2CV is called toaster …regardless we popped it open and both of us retain our eyebrows . 
The ginormous flames (they were seriously) were quenched by the water , with the kind concerned and also terrified passerby looking on worriedly. I gave her a big hug and sent her on her way. 
My fellow building mate who I’ve met once and now taken her completely empty free garage! Ran down the stairs (lifts broken) with a bucket of water 

I don’t really remember were I was going with this or in fact where all the punctuation and spelling have gone, but it’s past three am and my first car show, showing off my own car has been somewhat memorable, and the irony was , in a day my underwear was soaked through by pershitant and pervasive rain … when the car caught fire (not tiny wispy flames you should have seen it!) was it raining … was it fuck.

safe to say , while Talbot made pizza … I ordered a fire extinguisher for the spitfire .

 

At least you'll have the memories for future shows! 

I've had billowing smoke from a caliper whilst driving before which was scary enough, especially for the people whose office building I pulled up outside, faces pressed against the window etc. A smack with my jack handle and a lump hammer had it 'pop' back in and I carried on driving to work without really using the brakes. Was fine after 🤷 (I'd spent the weekend before cleaning the calipers up though so it was probably my fault somehow. And it was a laguna2) 

[Talbot]

The fire was in fact the wheel bearing grease (and possibly a seal if there is one?) burning.  The brake disk had gotten so hot that the grease had hit auto-ignition temperature and some very pretty (but rather menacing) flames were licking up from the centre of the brake disc.  As soon as some water was scooched over the general area and the disc cooled down so that it was no longer glowing, the fire was gone.  It was all still remarkably hot, and the smell of hot brake pad friction material was astonishing) but the fire was not coming back.

What was playing on my mind is how, on a single-circuit braking system, one brake can stick on well enough to get the disk so hot that it looks like it's braking after the mulsane straight in the 24hr race.  (actually maybe even hotter).  The only conclusion I can come to is that it's a failed brake flexi-hose acting as a one-way valve.  This is backed up by the fact that even after the fire was out and the disc cooling, the wheel was still locked.  Opening the brake bleed nipple released a load of pressure, and the wheel suddenly free'd off again.  Given that the front brakes are hydraulic linked, there's no way this should be able to happen, except if something is holding the brake fluid pressure on one side.  Which can only be the flexi.

It'll need a new wheel bearing, a new disc, new flexies (all round!!!) and the caliper having a good look at, but it's not that bad really, and could have been quite significantly worse.

And a Merc brakes to look at and find out what the issue is.  I will be busy!

[Stinkwheel]

14 hours ago, chaseracer said:

The banner is dry, the gazeybo fabric may take a little longer!  Really good to see everyone.

Calendar shot surely

[captain_70s]

If it makes anybody feel better I missed this due to being in Barcelona which looked like this yesterday.

https://youtube.com/shorts/1KFtKC9aS5w?si=HabgBTfixvbAz1eq

Don't know how to embed a short...

[SiC]

Thank fuck the hose didn't burn through. Brake fluid is far more flammable than even petrol.

I guess you'd have noticed much sooner as a driver of the Spitfire that something was a miss when braking and it wouldn't have got to the firey stage. 

Hoses didn't look that old when I saw it yesterday so would kinda be surprised if they closed up. Unless it's a combination of factors like a sticking caliper caused the area to heat up which caused the hose to swell and then lock even more as the fluid expanded from the heat. 

[juular]

Nice weekend that, despite the biblical amounts of rain on Sunday.

No point repeating all the photos from the show, so here's some random rubbish.

An absolutely cloudless and beautiful drive down the M74 / M6 on Friday. Had a lazy wander round Penrith and had lunch in a nice tearoom. Glad I took the 240 and not the Amazon, because even with the interior fans on full it was verging on too warm. The Amazon has no fans, just quarterlight windows.

 

Back on the M6 to Lymm services.

 

 

A properly idyllic evening at the hotel.

 

We witnessed something really odd, what looked like funnels of smoke rising off the surrounding trees.  We looked it up, apparently its midges swarming?  No need to panic, English friends, we haven't brought the little shits down with us. They're apparently a non-biting native species.

 

Saturday was spent next to a small lake fishing in cracking weather. We caught a few carp.

 

And a nice evening having dinner with fellow shitefolk at the Shady Oak on the Shropshire Canal.

 

Had breakfast with @Talbot and @Gabriall at the Cholmondeley Farm Shop Tearoom which was really good, then convoyed to the show.

 

I don't think I've ever been at such a damp car event in my life.

 

A very Autoshite-esque corner.

Weather aside, it was a great atmosphere, sort of like a mini-shitefest.  I think I would go back before I went to another FOTU, given that it's cheaper, less of a trek, there's autojumbles and there's a communal gazebo / social area.

Convoyed up the road with @davidfowler2000 and @blackboilersuit, and the less said about the state of the M6 the better.  We did stop for a pie though, so it's fine.

[juular]

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

The fire was in fact the wheel bearing grease (and possibly a seal if there is one?) burning.  The brake disk had gotten so hot that the grease had hit auto-ignition temperature and some very pretty (but rather menacing) flames were licking up from the centre of the brake disc.  As soon as some water was scooched over the general area and the disc cooled down so that it was no longer glowing, the fire was gone.  It was all still remarkably hot, and the smell of hot brake pad friction material was astonishing) but the fire was not coming back.

What was playing on my mind is how, on a single-circuit braking system, one brake can stick on well enough to get the disk so hot that it looks like it's braking after the mulsane straight in the 24hr race.  (actually maybe even hotter).  The only conclusion I can come to is that it's a failed brake flexi-hose acting as a one-way valve.  This is backed up by the fact that even after the fire was out and the disc cooling, the wheel was still locked.  Opening the brake bleed nipple released a load of pressure, and the wheel suddenly free'd off again.  Given that the front brakes are hydraulic linked, there's no way this should be able to happen, except if something is holding the brake fluid pressure on one side.  Which can only be the flexi.

It'll need a new wheel bearing, a new disc, new flexies (all round!!!) and the caliper having a good look at, but it's not that bad really, and could have been quite significantly worse.

And a Merc brakes to look at and find out what the issue is.  I will be busy!

That quantity of unrequested heating is never desirable.

What a weird failure.  As you say unlikely to be the A-frame brake, you did an absolute tonne of mileage with that car on the back over two days without issue. This would also affect all wheels if it was stuck on, and you'd feel it.

I've had old flexi hoses act as blockers but never one-way valves, though I have heard of it happening.  First suspect in my mind would be a mechanical fault such as a cocked piston or jammed / fouled slider, especially given the previous owner did lots of rebuilding but zero road testing. 

Everything being still seized after the incident might just be thermal expansion. Opening the bleed nipple may have just allowed the outside piston to retract a little futher? I think these are solid calipers and the bleed screw is between the inside and outside piston IIRC.

Possibly the previous owner has managed to get crap in the line / caliper that has slowly worked its way into a small passage in the caliper?

Just random thoughts, but I really am interested to know what happened in the end. Please do a detailed post-mortem!

[Talbot]

25 minutes ago, SiC said:

Thank fuck the hose didn't burn through. Brake fluid is far more flammable than even petrol.

I guess you'd have noticed much sooner as a driver of the Spitfire that something was a miss when braking and it wouldn't have got to the firey stage. 

Hoses didn't look that old when I saw it yesterday so would kinda be surprised if they closed up. Unless it's a combination of factors like a sticking caliper caused the area to heat up which caused the hose to swell and then lock even more as the fluid expanded from the heat. 

The flame was nowhere near the actual hoses thankfully, and although they look quite new, I suspect they are the cheapest of the cheap modern crap rubber, that has been sitting on a shelf for several years, and then sat with brake fluid in for a while and has just broken up.  There's no other way that one brake could be hydraulically held on and not the other front one.  They're both getting changed, probably for decent braided ones, and I'll be cutting the old ones open to investigate.  Modern rubber is dire!

[Talbot]

20 minutes ago, juular said:

I've had old flexi hoses act as blockers but never one-way valves, though I have heard of it happening. 

I've had it a few times... the rubber swells up inside, but the force of a foot/pusher on the pedal is enough to overcome this and force some fluid through.  Once said fluid it through, however, the tiny force from the caliper to move fluid back is nowhere near enough to overcome the swolen rubber, and it just keeps the brake on.

I suspect (if this is what happened) the fluid then boiled due to overheating, and hence why when I opened the bleed point, it was mainly gas (unclear if it was air or brake fluid vapor) that came out.  A fair bit had to be let out, but once it was out, the wheel was immediately free again.  If lucky, the caliper might be ok... we hope.

But yes.  That was an unwelcome amount of heat.  The disc was astonishingly hot, and now that it's been doused in water, likely scrap.  I hope it's not done any other damage.

[Gabriall]

On the upside … it has caused me to make 4 posts in 2 days which is a million percent increase on my usual efforts . 

[beko1987]

Was thinking earlier it's a good job you still have the car to investigate what happened, 3 or 4 minutes later and it'd be another sad tale of 'old car burns to a crisp' and you'll be getting told it was the wiring m8 or a fuel hose, it's always those etc and never truly know

Shame you didn't drive home in the downpours, although that could have hidden the issue until you jumped in to go for the next drive... 

[hairnet]

2 hours ago, captain_70s said:

If it makes anybody feel better I missed this due to being in Barcelona which looked like this yesterday.

https://youtube.com/shorts/1KFtKC9aS5w?si=HabgBTfixvbAz1eq

Don't know how to embed a short...

saw a short over the weekend of benidorm

musta been 5 inches of rain flowing down a street 😮

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

The disc was astonishingly hot, and now that it's been doused in water, likely scrap.  I hope it's not done any other damage.

morbid curiosity has me wondering how much its warped?, be interesting stick a runout gauge onto it, may as well get some amusement out of an otherwise scary event  

on that front, glad everyone and everything is otherwise alright! unintended rapid oxidisation events are never nice!

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Beautiful day today! 

[Mrs6C]

6 hours ago, Talbot said:

What was playing on my mind is how, on a single-circuit braking system,

Interesting. The late 1500s did have dual circuit brakes, from FH130000 onwards IIRC.

Glad all turned out well in the end.

[catsinthewelder]

Did anyone else notice the signs to Malpas Yesteryear Rally quite close to this (about a mile from where I dropped Talbot off)?

Was a huge event with loads of old tat parked up, we were tempted to head in but had already made plans to call in with family on the way home.

https://malpas-yesteryear-rally.co.uk/gallery/

Seems a bit daft to organise 2 old car shows right next to each other at the same time (shades of that beer and bangers thing just round the corner from Shitefest).

[brownnova]

2 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

Did anyone else notice the signs to Malpas Yesteryear Rally quite close to this (about a mile from where I dropped Talbot off)?

Was a huge event with loads of old tat parked up, we were tempted to head in but had already made plans to call in with family on the way home.

https://malpas-yesteryear-rally.co.uk/gallery/

Seems a bit daft to organise 2 old car shows right next to each other at the same time (shades of that beer and bangers thing just round the corner from Shitefest).

They’ve never clashed weekends before to my knowledge. Malpas yesteryear is supposed to be an excellent show. But… you have to book months in advance! 

[mat_the_cat]

It was nice to meet up with a few folk at the Shady on Saturday night, but the only shite-related photo I took was of @juular's 240 leaving the car park.

Our Sunday was spent getting wet in a different field; 9 hours of rain of various intensities, and absolutely no shelter unless you went and sat in a portaloo.

Was quite a relief to jump back in the LT afterwards and crank all the heating up!