1980’s motoring in Poland

[sierraman]

Just been watching an old Top Gear from the mid 80’s about the motoring scene in Poland, in today’s money a Fiat 126 cost over £50,000 to the average polish worker. What other bizarre stories do we have about motoring behind the iron curtain?

[Leyland Worldmaster]

I have been a passenger in an FSO Polonez. In Poland. Was "Interesting"... 

😁😁😁

[MiniMort]

Not quite Poland but on my radio show I once interviewed a Ukrainian guy who has a YouTube channel called The Ushanka Show about cars in the USSR.

He also mentioned that the price for Ladas in particular were worth several years wages. But as well as that you couldn't just go to a dealership and buy anything. Instead at your place of work you put yourself on the waiting list for it which, unless you were in the military or a government official, was 9 years.

Because of that really long wait, in the Soviet Union people actually paid more for used cars! In fact, some people used to make quite a bit of money by wheeling and dealing 

[Sham]

Having been to Poland, can confirm they're still doing 1980's motoring.

[St.Jude]

My Dad was the "proud" owner of an FSO Polonez. It was the only new car he ever owned, and was the car that took me home from the hospital when I was born.

It was utter dog shite. My first memory ever is being in the back of it with my aunts and my Dad went in to a car wash, and water was pissing in the windows and they had all the tissue in the world mopping it all up. He had nothing but trouble with it, and sold it after 3 years of ownership to a friend of his. His friend kept it for 14 years until the rust got it. 

That said, I'd love one of my own. There's a group of Polish lads called Yanooshe! and they have a fleet of FSO's, including an old Morris looking one. Lovely guys. When the restrictions lift I'm going to Poland in the hunt for a Polonez gearbox to fit my K-Series for the Lada. May even bring a trailer and bring a Polonez back.

1 hour ago, MiniMort said:

Not quite Poland but on my radio show I once interviewed a Ukrainian guy who has a YouTube channel called The Ushanka Show about cars in the USSR.

Love that guy!

[Bitzer]

I believe this is a must. Unfortunately, the quality of the video is very low and it is only in German, without English subtitles.

 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

A guy I worked for in 1982/83 used to send car parts home for his Dad’s Fiat by post, I know sometimes he’d have to send the same thing 2or 3 times because they went missing en-route.

This same bloke rallied a Renault 12 Gordini in the late 70’s in Poland , so you must have been able to buy imports, he’d only have been in his 20’s then too, so I don’t know where he got the money from if cars were that expensive , he was a graphic designer.

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, Sham said:

Having been to Poland, can confirm they're still doing 1980's motoring.

What I really respect about the Poles is they are do-ers, if the car breaks or whatever they’ll go out in the snow and fix it whereas we’d be looking round for a garage to fix it. 

[Kringle]

1 hour ago, Bitzer said:

I believe this is a must. Unfortunately, the quality of the video is very low and it is only in German, without English subtitles.

 

That's mega, although the guys lungs at 29:55 probably wouldn't agree. I was watching the whole thing expecting horrible accidents to happen at any minute.

[Sham]

48 minutes ago, sierraman said:

What I really respect about the Poles is they are do-ers, if the car breaks or whatever they’ll go out in the snow and fix it whereas we’d be looking round for a garage to fix it. 

Please don't get me wrong, it wasn't intended as an insult. I adore Poland and it's people - they have values that used to be common here. I'd move there if my (Polish) Mrs would go back.

[martc]

2 hours ago, Bitzer said:

I believe this is a must. Unfortunately, the quality of the video is very low and it is only in German, without English subtitles.

German quality not as good as people expect? Shouldn't this be in the Moderns thread?

[Leyland Worldmaster]

2 hours ago, Kringle said:

That's mega, although the guys lungs at 29:55 probably wouldn't agree. I was watching the whole thing expecting horrible accidents to happen at any minute.

Brilliant video, imagine an HSE Inspector looking around... Probably lots of respiratory illnesses as a result of all the maskless spraying and all the dust! 😱😱😱

[Pieman]

It was East Germany, you probably had the choice of either respiratory illness or a bullet through your head.

I am however fascinated by cars from Iron Curtain countries, and if I had any modicum of mechanical skill I'd happily own one.

[Bitzer]

10-points question - what is this?

Hint: It has nothing to do with Poland.

 

[Timewaster]

If you search YT for Trabant 601 there is a version with English subtitles. 

 

[wuvvum]

9 hours ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

This same bloke rallied a Renault 12 Gordini in the late 70’s in Poland

Are you sure it wasn't a Dacia 1300 painted blue and white?

[NorfolkNWeigh]

5 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Are you sure it wasn't a Dacia 1300 painted blue and white?

I hadn’t even heard of Dacia then, but then I didn’t know there was a R12 Gordini either. Never saw a picture of one until the Internet was invented. It’s easy to forget how little information was around  to car enthusiasts then. Even classic car mags only really told us about the usual suspects, the MGB was only a year or 2 out of production and was already as ubiquitous as it is now in the mags.

When I was about 8/9 I read a book called Midnight Rally about 2 French teenagers who rebuild a Dauphine and rally it. Throughout the book it mentions 2CVs , I thought it was what the French called Ami’s, I’d  never seen a 2CV.  I felt stupid when Citroen re- introduced the 2CV to the U.K. in 1975/6

[bezzabsa]

3 hours ago, Bitzer said:

10-points question - what is this?

Hint: It has nothing to do with Poland.

 

skoda 720.....

Thank you Google..LOL

[MiniMort]

20 hours ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

A guy I worked for in 1982/83 used to send car parts home for his Dad’s Fiat by post, I know sometimes he’d have to send the same thing 2or 3 times because they went missing en-route.

This same bloke rallied a Renault 12 Gordini in the late 70’s in Poland , so you must have been able to buy imports, he’d only have been in his 20’s then too, so I don’t know where he got the money from if cars were that expensive , he was a graphic designer.

I think you could import stuff that was under 1300cc, so long as you had the cash, via Polmozbyt which was the Polish universal car dealer/importer. I know that was also the case in Czechoslovakia because another guest I once had on my show said growing up there in the 70s and 80s her dad was a mechanic and had a Volkswagen (I'm guessing either a Beetle or a Polo)

[Adrian_pt]

In Romania a Dacia 1300 was 77000 lei and a normal monthly wage was 2000-2500 (admittedly after tax). Pricey but there wasn't much else you could spend it on. In the late 60s you could get Western cars new - Fiats and Renaults plus a tiny handful of VWs and Fords. The state lottery memorably offered a Volvo Amazon as the top prize one year. If you had the cash, a Western vehicle was not unusual till about 1978 ,when import duties were considerably increased - that, plus the difficulty of getting spare parts, meant that most were swiftly taken off the road. Those who could, not just senior Party members but musicians, actors, sportspeople, doctors etc, had some pretty interesting cars - there were Range Rovers, E-types, Maseratis, Mercedes SLs, and even a drop top Rolls registered in Communist Bucharest. Some interesting cars had also survived the war, but the border was porous and a lot managed to trickle out of the country; one elderly couple I knew were offered a brand new Fiat 124 Coupe by Italian tourists in exchange for the elderly pre-war cabriolet they used as a daily driver in the 60s. They laughed as they did the deal and it was decades before they kicked themselves for having flogged a ... Bugatti.

 

 

[martc]

32 minutes ago, Adrian_pt said:

...and even a drop top Rolls registered in Communist Bucharest....

Not just Romania, although it did end badly -

'In 1980, General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev crashed a 1966 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow (6230 cc, 172 HP, 190 km/h, 2100 kg). The smashed up car was never repaired and is on display as it appeared following his accident – complete with a model of Brezhnev behind the steering wheel.'

https://www.european-traveler.com/baltic-states/visit-the-riga-motor-museum-of-classic-cars-in-latvia/#:~:text=In 1980%2C General Secretary Leonid,Brezhnev behind the steering wheel.

[Conan]

How cool's that? Right before the curtain fell. The police had BMWs from the 1960's till the end.

 

I'd imagine it was easier to get a Ford Escort in Poznań than, say, a Datsun Cherry in Vladivostok. But there certainly were "Western" cars in the Soviet Union. You know what? It probably was less weird to people within the Iron Curtain than a Wartburg to 1970's Californian.

[Adrian_pt]

Yep - the further away from Western markets you went, the rarer they would be - but they existed.

Romanian still has the old fashioned phrase "to stare [at something] as if at a foreign car". 

The below were all privately owned cars in Communism. Other interesting vehicles were owned by the state (as official or rental cars) and by foreigners resident in the country. The Ceausescus had a few cars too, though the luxury ones tended to be for official use:  in private, Elena Ceausescu had a Renault 16, her daughter Zoe a Mercedes 350SL, her son Valentin a Triumph Spitfire (which still exists) followed by an Audi 100 coupe, and her other son Nicu another Renault 16 and a Ford Sierra. 

 

[Richard_FM]

I heard in the Soviet Union & probably some of the other Eastern European countries there were no garages, and car owners were expected to do all their own repairs.

I assume you had to order the parts from the manufacturers. 

[HMC]

13 minutes ago, Richard_FM said:

I heard in the Soviet Union & probably some of the other Eastern European countries there were no garages, and car owners were expected to do all their own repairs.

I assume you had to order the parts from the manufacturers. 

My friend tells me (she grew up in Moscow in communist times) that essentially that was true.

[Split_Pin]

What I am interested to know is what's the feeling now? I was under the impression that so-called premium brand cars were favoured there lately, particularly older ones which can be repaired.

Are there bad feelings attached to one-time Iron Curtain cars like Ladas and FSOs cars which were previously  reserved for those whom were 'more equal' than others? Or are they remembered fondly like we do with Escorts, Allegros and the like, even although they were perhaps not the best in their day?

I'd like to know as I follow some YouTubers wo are from Latvia,  Russia and Czecholslovakia and only one seems to have a genuine fondness  for them, the rest tinker with old BMWs and Passats.

[Adrian_pt]

Can't speak for the other countries but in Romania Audis, VWs and Beemers rule the roost. If you're skint you have an older one, or a Dacia Logan. Communist-era cars (including the Dacia 13xx series, made up to 2004) are very thin on the ground - they tend to be owned by eccentric pensioners in town, and poor people in the countryside, plus a growing number of collectors. Their status kind of depends where you are. 

When I'm over there, I live in a relatively poor county, so tend to get pitied for driving a 1984 Dacia - lots of comments along the lines of "Well, if it gets you from A to B...". But the car is normally kept in neighbouring Iasi, which is prosperous, and there it gets grins, waves, and photos wherever it goes. So people do remember them fondly, but it requires a degree of distance, plus the comforting insulation of something reliable and German in the garage. From recent travels I get the impression it's the same elsewhere in Eastern Europe - the richer the country the more affectionately they look back on their motoring heritage.

One of my favourite Dacia moments was when going to an extremely snooty country house restaurant. The guys at the gates saw the ageing Dacia pootling up the drive and decided this was the sort of clientele they could do without, so promptly shut the gates. Which was funny for us, but mildly embarrassing for them when it emerged that not only did we have a booking, but we were also reviewing the place for a reasonably influential site. (Review was eventually published with the headline along the lines of "Should have taken a Porsche")

 

[Borsuq]

On 20/02/2021 at 09:47, Split_Pin said:

Are there bad feelings attached to one-time Iron Curtain cars like Ladas and FSOs cars which were previously  reserved for those whom were 'more equal' than others? Or are they remembered fondly like we do with Escorts, Allegros and the like, even although they were perhaps not the best in their day?

 

Speaking from a Polish perspective, he nostalgia for stuff like the Polonez is very much picking up, although mostly among the younger generations - you know, people who rode in the back of their parents' Polonez as kids in the 90's or early 00's. People born before the mid 80's or so, who actually got to live in and remember communism tend to be much less keen on cars from that period.

More and more kids these days are even starting to claim that stuff like the Polonez wasn't nearly as terrible as everyone says they were. I imagine they're only saying that because they've never driven one.

As far as other Polish cars go:

- the FSO Warszawa is now a full blown classic, doesn't matter which flavour one wants - they're all expensive.

- early 125ps are also genuine classics by now, to get one from before it got hit with with the ugly stick you're gonna be spending a lot of money. 80's cars are also quite expensive atm, but I'm not entirely convinced that's warranted. Cars from the tail end of production (~1988+) are a bit of a joke, they were put together with precision to the nearest foot and I wouldn't wish one on an enemy.

- the FSO/FSM Syrena is also a full blown classic by now, although it's never lost its reputation of being a bit of an unfunny joke on wheels. They're not easy to keep on the road.

- early 126ps are definitely considered classics by now, late ones not so much, but prices are rising. I reckon we'll reach a point when even late ones are pretty desirable because they offer a very similar experience overall. It's probably most fondly remembered of Polish cars and an easy way to get into classic car ownership.

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, Borsuq said:

Speaking from a Polish perspective, he nostalgia for stuff like the Polonez is very much picking up, although mostly among the younger generations - you know, people who rode in the back of their parents' Polonez as kids in the 90's or early 00's. People born before the mid 80's or so, who actually got to live in and remember communism tend to be much less keen on cars from that period.

More and more kids these days are even starting to claim that stuff like the Polonez wasn't nearly as terrible as everyone says they were. I imagine they're only saying that because they've never driven one.

As far as other Polish cars go:

- the FSO Warszawa is now a full blown classic, doesn't matter which flavour one wants - they're all expensive.

- early 125ps are also genuine classics by now, to get one from before it got hit with with the ugly stick you're gonna be spending a lot of money. 80's cars are also quite expensive atm, but I'm not entirely convinced that's warranted. Cars from the tail end of production (~1988+) are a bit of a joke, they were put together with precision to the nearest foot and I wouldn't wish one on an enemy.

- the FSO/FSM Syrena is also a full blown classic by now, although it's never lost its reputation of being a bit of an unfunny joke on wheels. They're not easy to keep on the road.

- early 126ps are definitely considered classics by now, late ones not so much, but prices are rising. I reckon we'll reach a point when even late ones are pretty desirable because they offer a very similar experience overall. It's probably most fondly remembered of Polish cars and an easy way to get into classic car ownership.

I can well believe this. I think the early FSO Polonez's (as in, pre-facelift) are all jumping up in prices while the Daewoo-FSO ones are fairly cheap. 

I'm that exact person you're speaking of, riding in the back of my Dad's Polonez but never driven one. I like the look of them, they aren't a bad looking car (beauty is always subjective), but I would say you'd have a fair bit of work to do to make them drive better!

[sierraman]

I think part of the appeal of the Polonez was when you could pick one up for £15 down the Auctions. When they’re getting to four figures the appeal somewhat decreases.