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The grumpy thread


outlaw118

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Well that's the point I've made to my colleague. We have a new senior management team (mostly) and one of them I think is a bully that needs to be taken down a notch. And taken down a notch early before she tries it on with anybody else.

 

It might not change anything and my colleague is happy about the summary of the meeting that was given to them apart from the first sentence which spoke about disciplinary procedures. My colleague asked if they should contact the senior manager and raise the point or go straight to the union. My advice was to go straight to the union because if our organisation were to then act in a retaliatory way to my colleague, this senior manager would be in even deeper shit.

 

TLDR; taking down a bully a few pegs and making their actions have consequences for their potential employment.

Been there done that, usually your best friend here is a sensible and trustworthy member of the management (dont all laugh at the back) and then you can have a chat and get it sorted that way - as in bully issue, not original issue.
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The letter/email confirming the outcome must tell them how to appeal and they must have been given the opportunity to take representation to the hearing. Advice to contact their union is spot on, they might want to respond asking about their right to appeal if not stated, also ask for a copy of the disciplinary policy and procedure... To ensure they don't miss a deadline for appealing..

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

 

That was my understanding too.  Which is what I said to my colleague.

 

Hopefully they will take it to the union and at least point out to the senior management that they're not going to get away with trying that old trick.

 

It is quite ironic that in my sector, most of the senior management have worked up through the ranks yet still think this sort of behaviour is either acceptable, are just ignorant of the law or think they'll get away with it.

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At any meeting of a disciplinary nature where there is a chance that something might be put on record, the employee has to be informed prior to the meeting that it will discuss such matters and they have the right to bring a representative from a union with them.  If a disciplinary meeting takes place without that information being given to the employee then they can't arrange representation and that is what is against the law.

 

The employee has a right to know what is going to be discussed.  They can choose to waive their right to a representative but that has to be an informed choice.  Subsequent to the meeting, notification must also be presented in writing informing the employee of the outcome and documenting the appeals process.  This is not a choice of the employer, this is their statutory duty and not doing any of the above is a breach of employment law.

 

An 'informal disciplinary' is still a disciplinary and the above still applies.

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There is no such thing as an informal disciplinary, its either informal, or its a disciplinary.

 

When can't you be accompanied to a meeting?

You do not have the right to be accompanied to an informal chat with your employer or to an initial fact-finding or investigatory meeting. This is a meeting where your employer tries to find out what has happened.

Even though you do not have a legal right to be accompanied, you can ask your employer to let you bring someone with you but they do not have to agree to this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/disciplinary-meetings/who-can-accompany-you-to-a-disciplinary-meeting/

 

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Without going into too many details, there is a very strong implication in the email that this is part of a ramped disciplinary procedure.  Therefore what I've said still applies.

 

Anyhow, even if I'm wrong here my colleague should - in my view - be seeking union advice.  There has been a disturbing pattern of behaviour recently and it has left several colleagues feeling victimised and bullied.

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Arse! Disco passed MOT and has done 130 miles of the 160 mile round trip. Was running great doing a steady 55 when it just cut out!

 

Now waiting on the AA

 

Arse again!

 

Eventually made it home, in a borrowed Hyundai Coupe! In tank fuel pump gone on the Disco, so recovered to my garage, to join the Cobra (and jumping into the slot that was booked for the L200 starter motor!).

 

Superb service from the AA again. From initial call to van arriving was 35 minutes. Obviously he could not fix it so called for a recovery truck. Van driver was about to start his lunch break so stopped with me with beacons on as it was on a busy main road. He carried a small kettle to run off his inverter so he made me a cup of tea. Recovery wagon arrived within the hour.

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I feel your colleagues pain.

I was once treated like a piece of shit by a manager who tried to manage me out.

Looking back I was probabally suffering from mild depression and was struggling to do a job that i wasnt qualified for, but I was invited to a formal on the record disciplinary following months of not being able to keep up with ever increasing demands.

I turned up with Unite's regional negotiator because there was no other union member in the whole company - out of 450.

She had spent the morning negotiating with Jacobs Biscuit managers, and was shit hot.

I got to stay. My manager started treating me like a human, but I was still doing a job that was out of my comfort zone.

So when 45 of the 450 were made redundant later in the year I was glad to leave.

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MOT prep on the van today, had to remove one of the lpg tanks to weld the floor below it.

Vented the gas in the lines, it was so cold out that instead of immediately flashing to a vapour it sat in a puddle of liquid propane!!! I have never ever seen that happen, amused myself dipping the end of a spammer spanner in and watching the heat in the spammer make it vapourise.

 

Note to self: MOT prep should start more than 24hrs before the test next time, get a new test in the summer for more time to work in daylight and warmth rather than below zero temperatures.

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MOT prep on the van today, had to remove one of the lpg tanks to weld the floor below it.

Vented the gas in the lines, it was so cold out that instead of immediately flashing to a vapour it sat in a puddle of liquid propane!!! I have never ever seen that happen, amused myself dipping the end of a spammer spanner in and watching the heat in the spammer make it vapourise.

Note to self: MOT prep should start more than 24hrs before the test next time, get a new test in the summer for more time to work in daylight and warmth rather than below zero temperatures.

As a fan of camping at stupid times of the year on a motorbike we found thatbthe little gas canisters would liquify over night rendering them useless unless you warmed them in your armpit for a few minutes but they do make entertaining flame throwers and you can write your name on the grass them light it. Very childish but entertaining.
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Pack a bag at least, how far have you got to go?

It’s about three hours, my sister has been brilliant and held the fort overnight. Turns out she had a fall earlier in the week and now has pneumonia and very low blood pressure. She is also incredibly confused and has been telling the doctors she was putting some screws in (as you do in your nightie with no teeth in and no screws or screwdrivers) and couldn’t get up. For a smoker in her mid 80s who has had four heart attacks she is a tough old bird so hopefully she will be ok. This is all on top of my sister finding out her lad has terminal cancer last week, shit start to 2019 :-(

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I've lost a few close relatives in recent years to cancer and old age. One thing I have learnt is to be there with your family when it all goes to shit because you never know when the lights are going to go out. It involves several frustrating trips back and forth and a tonne of messing about but once they're gone, they're gone and if you miss the final hour then at least you tried. I regret not making the time to see my Grandad off, a great man. Distance and bloody work was the issue there, a job I couldn't give a crap about now as it's well in the past.

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I didn’t want to be in the way last night so just sat around waiting to hear more. I am going up today but may not get to see her properly as I still have this damned chest infection so don’t want to add to the problems and will go up again tomorrow with the family. I didn’t realise last night that they had not taken her to the little local hospital but one that takes 40 minutes off the round trip for me which helps. It’s also closer for all the family bar one so will work well if she has to stay there any length of time. It’s a good job I didn’t go last night as I would have been at the wrong hospital! I never even thought to ask.

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I've lost a few close relatives in recent years to cancer and old age. One thing I have learnt is to be there with your family when it all goes to shit because you never know when the lights are going to go out. It involves several frustrating trips back and forth and a tonne of messing about but once they're gone, they're gone and if you miss the final hour then at least you tried. I regret not making the time to see my Grandad off, a great man. Distance and bloody work was the issue there, a job I couldn't give a crap about now as it's well in the past.

This is why I hate 206CCs.

 

My mum's stopped us both from sharing our last moments with my nan after it ground to a halt just outside Rochdale with a failed clutch. The Peugeot was a sub 20k, always garaged example that was pampered - none of which stopped it from rusting at 18 months old thanks to Heuliez's uniquely lackadaisical approach to longevity.

 

It was traded in for another car with a ripple in the door from where I roundhouse kicked it in frustration, the piece of shit.

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This is why I hate 206CCs.

 

My mum's stopped us both from sharing our last moments with my nan. It ground to a halt just outside Rochdale with a failed clutch. It was a sub 20k always garaged car that was pampered. Didn't stop it from rusting at 18 months old.

 

It was traded in for another car with a ripple in the door from where I roundhouse kicked it in frustration, the piece of shit.

Liked for the kick, not the rest. I'd have set it on fire I think

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I've advised them that they are in breach of due process, to download all the emails off the server and put them out of the organisation's reach and contact the Union.  I've also explained the law to them and advised that any further contact with management on this matter should be through the Union and to not go to them directly.

 

I described the whole thing to my colleague as 'Pushing my Leftie Button'.  Which about sums it up.

 

It may help to do a £10  "data access request" to have copies of email, personnel files, meeting minutes, logged phone calls etc so basically anything which may be presented at a disciplinary meeting. I suspect the organisation a bit like the one I used to be employed by so part of the issue is not being able to get through the layers of management.

 

 

https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/

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