welding project Juular's Scandi Noir. Volvo C70, 240 &122. Earth day.

[juular]

To continue where I left off.

Firstly a few photos relating to the stuff I already mentioned above.

Screwfix Galvanizing Spray.

Before:

And a year down the line. Rust is breaking back through anywhere that water has access to.

Not great!

Zinga

Before

1 year later

This has done a much better job. In fact, the only rust there is actually staining dripping down from a rusty bolt going into the door hinge, which I wiped off after this photo was taken. It hasn't actually rusted anywhere.

Another before shot of Zinga

And a year on. Not a spot of rust.

Verdict - Useful

Hydrate 80.

Before

1 year on.

I don't have a before picture, just an after one where all the H80 seems to have fallen off without any trace it was ever there.

Verdict : Useless

Vactan

Again I don't have a before photo, but it's clear to see where I painted it on around the bonnet hinge.

It seems mostly to have done its job, except for one flake which could do with being wire brushed and redone.

Verdict - Partially Useful

Top coats / underseal

Again I used different combinations in different areas depending on what I had lying around. This is where it gets a bit more tricky as the topcoat is somewhat dependent on what it was painted over. However there's some clear results here anyway.

Bilt Hamber Epoxy Mastic

This is supposed to be the holy grail of paint where you want a tough layer. It's a 2 pack paint which you mix and then thin with epoxy thinners to the consistency you want depending on the desired finish.

Unfortunately I found this stuff absolutely useless. This goes against everything I've heard about it online, but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to actually provide a decent coating never mind hold back any rust.

I had high hopes for this so I powered on and applied it on lots of suspension parts.

I should have known it wasn't going well when bits started randomly chipping off with light handling.

At this point I had an in-depth discussion with Peter Hamber of Bilt Hamber about why this was happening.  A number of things were tried, with me sending videos and photos of the stages of prep, all of which were confirmed to be right. Eventually once all avenues were exhausted he arranged for a replacement tin to be sent out to me, as he reckoned the original tin had either 'set' before arriving or was part of a faulty batch.

Unfortunately this made no difference at all.

A year on.

A few more photos are warranted.

Before:

6 Months later:

1 Year later:

Before:

6 Months later:

1 year later:

Even when used on completely new metal on interior surfaces this has failed to stay intact or to keep the rust under control.

Verdict : useless!

Johnstones Metal Paint 

I picked this up for a few quid from B and M. I bought it for something else, but since I had it lying around, I coated my rear springs in this before chucking over a coat of spray underseal.

Before:

I only have a 6 month after-picture here. The top spring is the one I painted, the bottom is a replacement new one.

This is a surprise really, as I expected this paint to chip and crack easily, causing the coils to rust like fuck. How often have you seen any spring stay un-rusty for more than a month? They are rust magnets.

This didn't happen, and they look pretty much the same as when they went on. I'm actually thinking this could be a decent paint to throw on top of a zinc primer coat before topcoating in underseal.

Verdict : useful (surprisingly)

Screwfix No-Nonsense High Temperature Spray Paint

I used this to paint the calipers after rebuilding them.

Before

1 year after

I'm really pleased with that. In fact the only places that have broken out in any rust are those which have been impacted while I've been removing and refitting the caliper- I usually have to give it a smack with a hammer.

Verdict : useful.

Silverhook Spray Underseal

Toolstation had this on offer when I was in getting something else, so I picked up a couple of tins. I mainly used this as a top coating for the lower parts of the sills and chassis repairs.

As you can see most of it has already started to wash / fall off.

Verdict : useless

Hammerite Under-body seal with Waxoyl - Spray version

You can see below the Hammerite version has done a much better job in high impact areas and none of it has fallen off.

Verdict : useful

Bilt Hamber Highbild : sandable filler- primer.

I used this on bodywork where it was really obvious I had welded things back together.  It did a great job of smoothing things out and is really easy to sand back to a smooth surface.

A year on after being topcoated with rattlecan paint.

Same again.

And a year later. This included some quite rusty areas that were treated with phosphoric acid and then primed in Zinga, before the primer and topcoat went on.

Verdict : useful

Bilt Hamber Dynax S50

A small mention of this because it does actually work. It comes with a long spray lance that you can get into chassis rails and sill voids. 

I don't have an after picture as it requires taking the interior to bits to see properly. However I did poke a small USB endoscope into some of the voids yesterday and confirm that it all looks about the same as the day that I sprayed it in there, so it seems to be doing its job very well.

I'm keen to see if there's a cheaper alternative to this as it's quite expensive once you start having to treat a whole car.  Bar and chain oil , old engine oil, and lanolin based oils have been suggested as a cheaper way of doing this.  You just need a delivery system that lets you get it deep inside the chassis and sills.

Verdict : Useful.

Summary

I'm not sure whether I've just been unlucky with some of the products, but it does feel there's a lot out there which does very little to help preserve all the hard work that goes into repairing rust. I'm particularly surprised by how badly some of the Bilt Hamber stuff worked out, especially given its good reputation.  Saying that, their Etchweld, Highbild and Dynax S50 were all really good at doing exactly what they were supposed to, even if they were quite pricey. Peter Hamber was pretty good to deal with, to his credit.

Rust converters, I wouldn't bother with any of them again. Phosphoric acid all the way.

There's a big variation in the quality of paint which claims to be zinc-rich.  The best way to tell how zinc-rich it actually is, is to weigh it.  A higher weight per volume suggests a better quality primer.  

I was surprised that the Hammerite underseal worked so well. Given that it's available pretty much everywhere and isn't very expensive, I expected it to be, frankly, shite.  However it has stood up to abuse particularly well especially inside the wheel arches and on the edges of outriggers. I'm impressed with it.  It's worth mentioning that since I undersealed the 240 I started using the brush-on version out of the tin rather than the rattlecan, and it seems even better. It's possible to stipple the finish which should be even better at resisting impact damage.

I think the most important thing here is the treatment of the metal right from the bare steel, or in many cases, pitted and rusty steel. Whatever you use on top isn't going to last if the underlying metal is untreated, or the primer you're using starts peeling off in chunks. You can't expect to underseal rusty metal and for it to last more than a month.

You can make your own conclusions, but here's what process I'm using from now on.

Clean steel (chassis / non bodywork) : Key to around 60 grit and degrease. Rust-Anode, seam seal with polyurethane sealant where needed. Coat with some generic metal paint, then finish with Hammerite underbody seal. Blast some Dynax S50 into the cavities.

Clean steel : Key to 60 grit, degrease, body filler if necessary, then Rust-Anode on remaining steel. BH Highbild spray filler. Sand. Rattlecan, then clear coat.

For rusty or pitted steel, first remove ALL previous paint, thoroughly degrease, then treat with strong phosphoric acid, brushed in hard, left for 15 minutes and repeated.  Do a third coat and wipe it off before it dries, then continue above.

This is the current plan with the Amazon project, so I'll see you again next year when I find out none of it has worked!

[Fumbler]

Liking your reviews of these products. We need more durability tests like this!

This is what I've used in times past for undercoating:
https://www.silverlinetools.com/en-GB/Product/ProductDetail?ModelName=675130

It sprays a decent volume of product and at quite a distance, so I've been holding it up to holes in chassis rails, doors etc. and just holding the trigger down for a good few seconds. I haven't tried it yet but I suspect one could ziptie a wand onto the nozzle. The knurled end should help prevent the wand from popping off due to the pressure.

[juular]

Half arsed fleet update.

Peugeot 205

The vegan 205 is happily smoking on as my commuting car. I didn't think I'd still have it by now, but damn it's just such a Good Thing in every possible way.

And sometimes as an impromptu recovery vehicle.

I'm still finding it less than keen to start when running on a high veg blend, although it runs well when warm.  I've been doing various bits of tinkering to try and narrow this down.

I started with the fuel lines. I mean ..

Is that.. garden hose?

Needless to say the whole lot was ripped out.  I uprated the main feed line to 10mm bore and replaced the return line with the standard 8mm bore. 

Highly interesting photo of said fuel lines.

I also took the fuel lifter thing out to clean the strainer. That was a quick job as it doesn't have a strainer.

Next job was to make a modification to the fuel filter housing heat exchanger.  Here I took the thermostat valve out of the side, cut most of it off, and blocked off the bypass hole. This should ensure that the fuel is heated constantly.

A slightly filed down penny, sealed in place, is the ideal size to block the hole.

Lastly, I fitted an electric lift pump, wired into a switched live so that it runs when you turn the key. The idea here is that it should help the veg along putting less strain on the system and so less likely to pull air in anywhere.

I also treated it to an oil change since I have no idea when it was last done.

The results are in and... no change. At least not to the cold start grumpiness.  It does certainly run happier now when warm, and any hesitation disappears quicker thanks to the fuel being heated for longer. 

I feel there's more to be done here.  I eliminated the fuel filter from the equation completely by fitting a generic canister filter in its place, which had no effect on the way it started.

I'm still going on the assumption that air is getting into the lines when run on thick fuel, but to prove that theory I've got some clear fuel line to fit onto the pump so I can actually see what's going on.

The 240

Not huge amounts to say here, it passed its MOT without any intervention from me, although it did get an advisory for underseal / corrosion which is an arse covering by the tester that really wound me up. There's not a single bit of corrosion on the whole underside.

It enjoyed the snow. In fact a RWD Volvo is right at home in snow, better than anyone would expect.

It got used whenever the gritters were out in force as frankly it's the only car I trust not to rust to hell.

The most difficult thing about this car is convincing myself to drive it when I have a 205 runs on chip fat, but it still remains near the top of the list whenever I just want to go a drive.

It hasn't really flung any shit my way.  The temperature needle was a little bit low in the very cold weather. That'll be the thermostat then.

There's a good few hours left in that.

With that replaced I got ALL THE TEMPERATURES.

Second minor niggle was trying to track down a slight bump/wobble at idle.  It's not bad, certainly nowhere near being a misfire, but I'm a perfectionist arsehole and if something can be fixed I like to at least give it a shot.

Despite replacing the injector seals last year, some of them seem a bit shagged.

I stuck a new set on and didn't really notice any change.

I thought the ignition was worth a look over as well.  Since I put a set of £4 spark plugs in last year I thought I'd splash out and pay the full £12 for an official set.

Again, no real change.

I changed the HT leads last year, but the Bosch kit came with the wrong king lead.  As a result I was running a lead which was [undefined] years old and probably could do with replacing.  

Top: old lead. Bottom: new incompatible lead.

I set about hacking up some old leads in order to steal the crimp connectors and swap them over.

Mint bro.

Again, frustratingly, no change.

All in though, it's a minor inconvenience and I've not got the inclination to start flinging tonnes of cash at it

It did a fairly uneventful 800 mile trip down to Cannock via the Peak and Lake Districts at the new year, so as you can infer I'm just being a picky, ungrateful bastard.  It's a phenomenal car and driving it is an absolute pleasure.

The next minor project on it is to upgrade the wipers, as I find them horrendously slow even though they were all like that sir.  Original wiper motors are basically impossible to find and  in the region of £HFM.

Doing some in-depth eBay scouring and wiring diagram perusal, I've found that the wiper motor from an S40 is one of the closest available. It uses the same control system and should be a bit less antiquated.

It won't fit out of the box, but I'll make it fit.

ENDS.

 

[danthecapriman]

Great to see an update. You certainly got your money’s worth out of that thermostat!😆

[juular]

The problem with the 240's wipers is that they're so slow they don't really help much in moderate rain, and in a really heavy downpour you may as well pull over and stop.   The technology probably hasn't changed much from the late 60s and the 140 series, so if you buy another original wiper motor it doesn't really improve much.  That's if you can find one, you can see the dollar signs in the eyes of a breaker when you ask if they've still got any left.   RHD ones aren't available new any more and even when they were they cost in the region of £300.  I've known of 240s being scrapped for a failed motor and not being able to pass an MOT without it.

I've dismantled the original motor several times and it just never worked right.  Firstly the bearing died and I replaced it. Then the board holding the brushes in place snapped and I had to epoxy it back together.  Finally it seems the motor shaft has now worn down to the point that it oscillates inside the bushings at either end of the case.  The result is that the motor grinds and rattles, this being transmitted through the linkages and to the wiper arms, to the point where the blades would just bounce across the screen.  On top of that you could hear the motor labouring away even through the road noise at 70mph. I was absolutely convinced I'd see a puff of smoke from under the passenger footwell and that would be me fucked.

So, I bought a motor from a 2001 Volvo S40 for £15, thinking that I could adapt it, and if I couldn't, well it's only £15.

The main differences are:

- The electrical connector is different.

- The spindle shaft is too short to reach all the way down through the bulkhead to the wiper linkages.

- The mounting bolt holes are on the opposite side of the motor.

The electrical part is easy, it's just a case of making a small wiring harness to connect the right pins to the 240 plug. With a quick test, it worked first time on low and high speeds, intermittent wipe, and would park itself when you turned the ignition on and the wipers weren't parked.

To extend the spindle shaft I attached a nut connector, with one side marked using a centre punch.

Drilled a 3mm hole.

Screwed the nut connector onto the motor, then continued the 3mm hole into the spindle.

Tapped the hole to M4.

Then an M4 machine screw was added, with some threadlocker for good measure.

This was then cut off, filed flat and epoxied over the top.  This should lock it in place and stop it ever unwinding.

I guess it would have been much quicker to tack it in place with a welder, but I was worried about damaging the nylon gear inside the motor.

To solve the mounting problem I made an adapter plate, starting by taking an offcut of 2mm steel and marking out the holes from the original motor. The orange line marks the centreline of the original motor which is quite important.

The S40 motor is then lined up and holes drilled for that.

The holes in place.

And the cleaned up adapter plate.

On the S40 motor.

This was then bolted to the car.  Amazingly it all lined up, and the extended spindle was exactly the right length.

The last job is to attach the wiper crank in the right orientation , with the motor in the park position.   Looking up inside the passenger footwell, it's easy enough to attach the crank to the wiper linkages and bolt it in place. 

Thankfully once aligned, it's possible to lift the complete unit out of the car without taking the crank off, given a bit of wiggling.

 

On the original motor the crank is keyed to the right orientation so that it doesn't spin on the shaft.  I'm sure there's plenty of ways to replicate this, but I decided to be lazy and just do a couple of tack welds to hold it on.   It's far enough away from the nylon gear at this point.

With that done I tidied up the wiring by soldering it directly to the motor pins.

I also 'potted' the top connector using some hot glue to stop water ingress and any potential shorts.

 

Finished unit.

 

And finally, on the car.  The wiring was finished off with some heatshrink to make it look a bit less shit.

 

And the moment of truth.

 

I didn't intend for this to be an upgrade, I just wanted reliable wipers. But what a difference it makes to have wipers from a modern car. It just takes away all that grim uncertainty when you're ploughing through downpours at night.  They are silent, and at least twice as quick as the old unit. The high speed mode is probably about 300% faster than the old one.

I should really have done a before and after video to show how bad they were, but I really had lost the rag with it by that point.

Edit:  I found a video I took while the car was in bits, showing how loud and slow they were from inside.  No windscreen, but you can see the linkages plod along.

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Elite level shiteing unlocked. I wish upgrading landrover wipers was as feasible. You could make some pocket money converting S40 motors for other volvo lickers.

[dave j]

Good work! Will make it much more bearable driving in the the rain

[Jim Bell]

That original video is surprisingly and painfully slow. Fantastic engineering solution man. 

The rain doesn't stand a chance now. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

52 minutes ago, Jim Bell said:

The rain doesn't stand a chance now. 

It's Scotland. It'll find a way.

[rainagain]

Re running veg in the 205, when I ran my clio on veg as well as doing a similar thermostat mod I looped the return line. This helps to warm the fuel, rather than sending it back to the tank. 

[juular]

On 1/17/2023 at 1:20 PM, rainagain said:

Re running veg in the 205, when I ran my clio on veg as well as doing a similar thermostat mod I looped the return line. This helps to warm the fuel, rather than sending it back to the tank. 

You've just reminded me I did plan on doing this actually, and I even have the bits for it. I will try this out at the weekend.

In the meantime I have been running it on diesel with the max fuel screw turned in a bit. I like to address problems head on you see. 

It's hilarious, highly recommended.

[juular]

The 240 had its first major fuckup, although thankfully it made it home under its own power.  Back in December 2021 I replaced a couple of the brittle nylon fuel lines that had cracked.  Getting the right stuff isn't easy, and I ended up replacing them with high pressure braided hose. Since the system runs at 5 bar I used hose that was rated for 15 bar continuous use. Well, here's a moments before disaster photo, which applies to both cars (more on the Toledo fail in that thread).

As you have probably already guessed, rubber ain't what it used to be and I found myself pulling out of a roundabout with a bucking and stalling engine and a horrible stink of fuel.  I managed to swing into the access road for the local recycling place and switch off before the car became a fireball.  The line for the cold start injector had cracked a few centimetres from where it enters the fitting, and was spraying fuel all over the hot engine at high pressure. 

The recycling centre loaned me a screwdriver so I could undo the clamp, snip the offending hose and reconnect it, which got me home so that I could change my underwear. 

It looks like I'll have to redo those lines in nylon again, which isn't a major job but I can't be arsed at the moment, so it's time for some fleet maneuverings.

I popped a battery in and she fired right up. 

I stuck some new shoes on as the Rainsports that came with the car a few years ago have finally reached the wear markers.

I then put it through a test, which it failed.

It's not awful. The ball joint required a complete lower arm which is a bit of a pain.

The rest of the stuff isn't that bad.  I've done both inner tie rods recently so the rack adjuster bolt just needs clicked up a stop to remove a bit of play.

The corrosion is just a couple of bits of sill that have been folded over by a careless tyre fitter.  Those can be fixed with mole grips, a wire brush and some paint.  In fact the tester commented on how spotless the car is underneath.

As the Mrs's LS400 needed a wishbone done too, we had a Wishbone Friday. Let me just say that I still have a hatred for working on Japanese cars.

The C70 then got its ticket, and I have been dutifully kicking the everloving fuck out of it since.  I really have missed the T5 burble, and its grumpy almost muscle-car like snarl.

We took it on a 250 mile road trip yesterday. Oh what a nice place it is.

This only served to remind me that I need to stop drag racing it at every opportunity, because it gets very expensive very quickly. I believe my next project is going to be taping over the fuel gauge so I can't see it. But oh, what a noise it makes!

Here's a final nugget of update. I fitted clear fuel line to the 205 to see if / where air was getting into the injection pump when running on veg.  The short answer is, nowhere.

The above photo was taken while the car was surging, hunting and stalling and there's not a single bubble in the line. Hmmm.

I made another minor modification by teeing the return line from the pump back into the inlet. This does seem to have helped considerably. In fact, since I've done this it hasn't stalled once when cold, although it does still hunt a little bit when the temperature outside drops.  Still, I can live with it and the weather will be warming up soon enough. Maybe.

[Talbot]

1 hour ago, juular said:

The above photo was taken while the car was surging, hunting and stalling and there's not a single bubble in the line. Hmmm

Cold (or at least not OMG-that's-hot) SVO is pretty viscous.  I suspect the pump is struggling a little to inject it, and the injection pattern is probably awful.  Once warmed up, the Viscosity gets much closer to Dino-Diesel, so all the injection components are far happier.  I suspect there's not a lot you can really do about it short of a twintank conversion.  Not that there's a lot of space for that in a 205...

[Split_Pin]

The T5 is a super thing, glad it's going well.

[juular]

Oh hi thread. It's been a while.

Not really had a huge amount to report on this front for a while, mainly because the C70 has been a workhorse of tremendous aural pleasure, and the 205 just keeps 205ing.

Until it went splat.

I noticed during a small road trip with some Scotoshiters that there was a small puddle under it when parked up, but I didn't think too much of it as it hadn't lost any oil at all. However, it turned out to be veg that was leaking.

The sealant I'd used to veg-proof the filter housing had failed, so I had to pull that off and reseal it. @Lacquer Peel provided his invaluable source of XUD knowledge as well as a tube of the right sealant I should have used in the first place.

From there things escalated somewhat.

I thought since I was fixing leaks, I may as well chuck on a new cam cover gasket.

Next I did a quick check of the brakes, as I just had the feeling something wasn't quite right.

Pulled and cleaned the front sliders on both sides. That's a lie. I took a sledgehammer to the front sliders as they were baked in place.  Those got duly cleaned up and greased.

Onto the back brakes, I noticed that the passenger side was doing absolutely nothing at all, either on the pedal or the handbrake.  That just needed adjusted back up to the drum. Last year in a massive temper I flung the self adjuster mechanisms across the garden as they kept sliding off and catching the drums. Happily, they were still in the corner of the garden that I flung them towards so I reinstalled them.

On the driver's side, the brake was doing the opposite and would not retract after being applied. That just required a wire brushing and a boatload of grease. On this side I had to weld the self-adjuster back together as it had developed a tear down one of the folds.  Good as new.

With that lot sorted, I filled it up with diesel (it's still running very poorly on veg, which is a problem for Future Juular™) and dutifully kicked fuck out of it over the Duke's Pass near Aberfoyle.

What a great wee car this is. It just puts a smile on my face every time I take it on a twisty road and annoy the hell out of much faster and expensive cars. The hollow diesel 'THRAP' from the exhaust is something to behold. The fact it looks grim as fuck and hasn't been washed since nineteen canteen really annoys my neighbour no end, which means it's here to stay.

The 240 has been sitting in the naughty corner, and unbelievably, has managed to get even naughtier.

This is what happens when you try to shut the bonnet when the hinges are seized solid.

And this.

It seems like this should be impossible to do, but the bonnet is a fair chunk of metal and it's quite long, meaning there's a surprising amount of leverage going into those hinges.

 

So, about two and a half hours of beating the shit out of both hinges with a sledgehammer, spraying, greasing and exercising the hinges, then painfully lining everything back up again gave me this.

Looks alright. It shuts. 

But it doesn't open again.

Nope, no matter what, I could NOT get the bonnet to open again.  I pulled the front grille out, snapping the retaining clips in the process. I smacked on the bonnet catch release arm with a hammer for five minutes and all I did was annoy everyone.

I had to undo the bolts for the bonnet catch excruciatingly slowly using a 12mm spanner that kept slipping every time. I did have an angled head ratcheting 12mm spanner.  In the engine bay under the stuck bonnet.

This exercise took me two and a half hours, and when the bonnet finally popped open, I could see the problem staring me in the face. I'd hooked up the bonnet release onto the LHD release mechanism. Little did I know that there's a separate hole for the RHD release cable.  So in effect, every time I pulled the catch handle, I was locking the bonnet down in place.

Moving swiftly on, the car was abandoned like this.

This is because despite the left side shutting perfectly, the right side is miles too high despite the adjuster being at its lowest. Apparently this is common, and is because the bonnet itself has bent from the force used to open against seized hinges.

Quality.

The fix, apparently, is to have someone sit on the hinge while you try to lift the bonnet.  I'll give that a go in the future, some day.

I turned focus to the fucked fuel line that tried to kill me.

There's nothing visibly wrong with it, but I have zero faith in these lines any more. Despite being rated for three times the system pressure of KJet, I suspect they are a mere imperial bawhair away from exploding.

I tried to do it properly this time, with actual nylon high pressure fuel pipe, wrapped in normal fuel line as a heat-resistant tube.

Just try leaking now, bastard!

[juular]

So the temporary insurance ran out on the C70. As much as I have been enjoying basking in the glorious noise of a 5 pot, this is probably a good thing as I can't afford to keep feeding this addiction.

The 240 has been pressed back into action for the time being. The plan is to tidy it up a little bit more as I have booked it into FOTU, intending on convoying down with Mrs_Juular who will be driving the Toledo if all goes to plan.

In the meantime I have just been enjoying it. A lot. 

I used to make a point of "Just Driving™", as in, getting in the car and heading down roads I haven't been down. After a while the problem is that you have to start heading further afield as all the local roads start to feel a bit samey.  This weekend was time to put some effort in and see if there's places we haven't done to death. 

We took it on a drive round the Rosneath peninsula, which is one bit we tend to just pass by enroute somewhere more interesting.  It's amazing that despite growing up around half an hour from here, I'd never actually been.

Finished this off with a Chinese in Helensburgh, for which an old Volvo is well prepared with its boxy dash and many shelves.

The return trip was made by joining up a few roads that, again, we seem to pass by enroute to seemingly more important places.  In this case, I really recommend the Balfron - Fintry - Carron Valley - Takmadoon route, as the scenery is surprisingly nice, the roads are absolutely empty, and are all great fun to play a hooligan in an 80's saloon.

[cort1977]

Great thread, had somehow missed it before. Felt your pain with the volvo bonnet, what a pisser.

[juular]

I'll spare you the highly interesting few hours I spent removing the in-tank sender and pump unit from the 240, dropping both the float ball and filter mesh into the fuel 800 times, repeatedly scooping them back out with a children's fishing net.  The original fault was the bracket holding the sender straight had broken, so the unit was leaning over as I went round steep bends, and on a low tank it would simply stop sucking fuel causing a stall.

That was problem the first. I'll have to run the current tank right down to see if my fix (a big jubilee clamp) has actually worked.

Problem the second was a droning front wheel bearing. It seems I totally fucked up changing it previously and managed to install the seal backwards.  Predictably the bearing filled with water and died.  I'm getting adept at changing these now, down to 30 minutes including jacking the car up.

Problem the third is that ever since I got the car, it's had a really wobbly idle.  It's hard to pinpoint as from outside the car it sounds perfectly smooth, no clear misfire or anything of the sort.  Sitting in traffic though, you can feel the whole car shake like jelly up until about 1500rpm where it evens out.

The most obvious cause, I thought, was dead engine mounts.

The driver's side engine mount is located right under the oil filter, so it's guaranteed to be getting an oil bath at frequent intervals.

That was easy enough to change by unbolting it, jacking the engine up and simply swapping them over.

The passenger side was a bit more involved as you have to take various bracketry and things out as well, to reach the engine mount nut. However when I removed it it was fairly obvious it was fucked as it had started to separate at the bottom.

A nice new one was fitted. Again, not a terrible job to do.

Starting the engine, I eagerly jumped in the driver's seat expecting a nice smooth purring car.  Instead, it became really obvious that the problem wasn't the engine mounts, but that I had a very occasional misfire.

The best way I can describe it is that the engine idles smoothly for 5-10 seconds, when you'll then feel an occasional hiccup / pop. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's annoying and it's a sign that something isn't right.

I took it a run and noticed that with the new engine mounts, the misfire is also noticeable at low speed / low throttle or when transitioning from low to full throttle.  The mounts were so soft before that it was completely masking this.

Even thinking methodically (a scary undertaking in itself) I wasn't sure where to start.  I've dismantled, cleaned and tuned the whole K-Jet system from the tank to the injectors. I've replaced the wear items on the ignition such as leads, plugs, distributor cap and rotor. 

I thought it was worth having a look at the coil.

First test is to see if the wiring to the coil is OK.

This is battery voltage.

This is voltage at the coil + terminal.

Over 1V drop can't be a good thing. However, it's still getting a solid 13.5V when the car is running, so that shouldn't be low enough to cause issues.  I think I've eliminated this by simply wiring the coil straight up to the battery and trying again. It's still misfiring even with the full 14v of alternator charge so I don't think this is the culprit.

Next up was to check the ignition control module. This was a bit of a mystery as I'd never seen it before, turns out it's hiding in the passenger side wing right behind the headlight. Looks like it gets its fair share of muck and water here too.

That was pulled off and cleaned up. I also tested the wiring continuity from here to the hall impulse sender on the distributor. No resistance over any wire, so that's good.  The fact that the tachometer is nice and steady also suggests to me that the impulse sender is working properly.

I then checked the resistance over the other wires and found a culprit - the ground from the ignition module had 10 Ohms resistance, or around a 2V drop.  Pulling the battery and tray out and following the wiring I found this.

That's not great. Reading the resistance over that connector showed that was the cause of the drop.

Fixed.

At the same time I pulled off all of the electrickery off that wing including the big earth bar and cleaned it up.

Aaaaaand.... no change!

I still think this was worth doing as eventually that connector would have failed and left me stranded.

What's next to try?

The coil itself could be dead?  Apparently not, checking the resistance across the primary and secondary circuits gives a reading right bang on the Volvo green book specs.  That doesn't mean it works perfectly all the time, but given that the engine runs better at higher RPMs when the coil is under most stress does suggest to me that the problem is elsewhere. I might try another coil just to rule it out, but I don't expect it to help.

So that leaves a bit of head scratching. I'm now thinking again about fuelling, whether there's dirt or air in the system or a clogged filter somewhere that is restricting flow enough at low demand for it to fluctuate a bit.

Next step will be to do another injector spray test and see if the quantities are the same across all cylinders. The injectors are brand new, but if the test shows one weak line, it does suggest there's something blocked or not working further back along the line.

[juular]

Strange things going on.

Did the injector test. Exactly 250ml across each of 4 bottles, spray pattern nice and fine. No hiccups or interruptions.  I think that pretty much rules out the fuelling.

Look at the injector in the middle here though. That dark colouring is quite odd.

Pulling the plugs didn't shed any light on this though, as they looked good to my eye.

Decided to do a compression test since the plugs were out.  I only managed to do 1,2 and 3 as 4 was a pain in the arse to get the adapter into.  160,175,170.  That's alright.

So we've got good combustion going on probably 90% of the time. This is pointing back to ignition again.

I put everything back together and started it.  It's now running like an absolute bag of shite. Hold on a minute!

Spraying some carb cleaner around the injectors and spark plugs suggests they're all sealed up properly.

Pulled off the distributor cap and noticed that it's black inside around all the terminals, and there's a fine powder residue.  Bear in mind this was replaced with the rest of the components in January.  

Definitely ignition then, although I'm not sure what.  

Next step is to test the resistance on the new HT leads, then swap the coil with a known good one just to see what happens.

[Zelandeth]

Regarding the lumpy running on the 205 - have you got a clear line on the return?

I wonder if there could be a tiny leak on the pump itself so it *is* pulling air in, but not from any of the lines - should be visible on the return though I'd expect.

[juular]

On 5/11/2023 at 2:40 AM, Zelandeth said:

Regarding the lumpy running on the 205 - have you got a clear line on the return?

I wonder if there could be a tiny leak on the pump itself so it *is* pulling air in, but not from any of the lines - should be visible on the return though I'd expect.

I did indeed.

Interesting finding the other day.  I had around half a tank of pump diesel, which I topped off with the same amount of veg, so a 50/50 blend.  So at this point the fuel line from the tank, the filter, pump and injector lines are all full of pure diesel.  I noticed right away after adding the veg that it was much grumpier trying to start, which suggests that it's not air, but maybe difficulty lifting the thicker fuel from the tank which is the problem.

As mentioned previously I did fit an electric lift pump and increased the size of the fuel lines to try and help this, but maybe I need a stronger pump. 

[juular]

Head scratching with the 240 continues. The poor running turns out not to be ignition related.

I replaced the coil with with a spare that was generously donated by a fellow shiter. This didn't make any difference.  I then checked the leads.  They weren't great.

However cleaning this up made no difference.  I also checked the resistances across the leads which were all fine.

Taking the spark plugs out and watching them while turning the engine over showed a lovely strong, clean spark.  How weird.

Back to the fuelling. I tested the fuel pressures again, and went through a full cold start and warmup cycle keeping an eagle eye on the gauge. Absolutely spot on throughout the range.

At this point it can only be air leaking into the intake.  I went round with a tin of carb cleaner and sprayed everything.  I did notice a slight blip in the idle when spraying injectors #1 and #2.  I went back and absolutely drowned them and noticed that the idle dropped off to the point it wanted to stall. Huzzah! Leak found.

I replaced the injector seals with new ones.  No change!

I then replaced the injector holders with new ones.

No change! And still reacting to the carb cleaner. This is getting very frustrating.

I went the whole hog and pulled the intake manifold off, since a leak on the front side would be right next to #1 and #2 injectors.

Having very little luck with gaskets recently, I resealed it using anaerobic gasket maker which I've found pretty infallible for things like this.

And again.. no change.

What the actual fuck.

I can only assume that those injectors are still leaking despite the injector, holder and seals all being new items.  I am almost tempted to RTV the fuckers in place.

Here's what it sounds like after all the above work has been done. It doesn't sound awful but it shakes like a shitting dog inside.

In the meantime I helped out a fellow well known volvo botherer.

He's got a V70 which has been lying around for years because the PCV system failed. It did so in a really odd way. Instead of having excessive crank case pressure, it was showing enormous amounts of vacuum. You couldn't even get the oil cap off when it was running.  This tends to happen when the PCV separator box fails internally and there's no option but to replace it.

It's a manifold off job, but since I've already done this on the C70 it was easy enough to get stuck in.

It fired right up and sounded great.  Hearing a 5 cylinder ticking over is making me tempted to shove the 240 in the naughty corner and blat around in the C70 instead.

 

[DSdriver]

Have you tried changing the fuel pump relay, it was the source of all the starvation problems on one of my 940s?

[juular]

Yes, I swapped it for a spare a while back, but it's working fine. As I say the fuelling is spot on, pressures are exactly right across the range and no interruption. Pretty sure it's down to those two leaking injectors.

[juular]

RTV fix incoming.

It's definitely coming from the injectors. I fired it up last night and it sounded the same. I went round it with soapy water this time and could very clearly hear the whoosh of vacuum from injector #1, and a little bit from #2.  It seems to be coming from the outside of the injector holders, so the thin larger diameter seal.

I did try fitting thicker generic O-rings but this didn't help.  This makes me think that trying yet another set of seals is pointless. 

[mk2_craig]

At the risk of sounding daft, could the issue be whatever the injectors are being screwed into?

[juular]

1 hour ago, mk2_craig said:

At the risk of sounding daft, could the issue be whatever the injectors are being screwed into?

Not daft,  but there's no screws on K-jet, everything just clicks together with o-rings. The injection pressures are much lower than EFI so the engine vacuum is enough to hold it together.

Except when the vacuum escapes.

[juular]

Continuing my current theme of vehicles letting go of their juice.

I don't know if it was in protest of never being washed but the lower rad hose decided enough was enough. 

That was easy enough to fix. I also did some upgrades.

So from left to right, there's a facet style fuel pump, leading into a fuel-coolant heat exchanger from an Audi which is looped into the thermostat return line.  The fuel passes through into a canister fuel filter off a land rover.  This completely does away with the fiddly and leaky plastic XUD fuel filter housing and massively improves the efficiency of the fuel heating.

I also refitted some clear line to the return to see what was going on.

So, firstly, it starts much better on the veg with this setup. It's clear that the XUD plastic housing was still letting in air despite being sealed to within an inch of its life.

There's still a little bit of surging on a cold start but it's significantly reduced. I did notice a small bit of air being expelled from the pump on a cold start so that's something to sort. It looks like while the pump is sitting overnight air is being drawn in somewhere. The next job is to redo the inlet and return fittings with new copper washers and see if it helps.

I also did some work on the 240 which involved replacing all of the injector seals with genuine Volvo ones from the dealer, and replacing the intake manifold gasket for a proper one.  This has completely solved the vacuum leaks (to my knowledge) but it's still running like an utter bag of shit. 

I'm pretty much certain I've eliminated fuelling and ignition so the next step may be to smoke test it.

[loserone]

You will get there, for summer cruising.

 

[juular]

Apparently I should shitpost more to make the pages less long.

I therefore offer you, raccoon in a drawer.