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Early Mondeo Saloon Saved From The Scrapman. A New Friend For Bob

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13 minutes ago, HMC said:

Satisfying work, at least to read about! What’s the plan re the carpet mould/ stain?

The boot carpet was in a similar state and I was expecting to have to do something major with it but, surprisingly enough, I left it to dry thoroughly then gave it a good going over with a dry stiff nylon-bristled scrubbing brush. All the dried mould came off like talcum powder and a quick once over with a vacuum cleaner left it looking quite presentable. I am hoping the main carpet responds just as well to the same treatment.
 

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Bad news people.
I think I might have found the problem that put this off the road in 2013. New rear wheel cylinders arrived this morning so I fitted one to the nearside rear to replace the one with the seized piston. Tried to bleed it and no fluid came out of the bleed nipple. Hmmm, I did clamp off the flexible hose so maybe that is blocked. Removed the incoming brake pipe union from the top of the flexible hose, still no fluid coming out.
This thing has ABS brakes, which I understand in principle but have no actual experience of. According to the HBOL there is an electronically controlled ABS unit somewhere under the master cylinder. This appears to contain four valves, one for each wheel, which allow each brake to be shut off independently if that wheel locks up. It also has two pressure control valves, one for each of the rear wheels, which relieve the pressure if it gets too high to stop the rear wheels locking up under heavy braking.
The brakes on the other three wheels all appear to work so my guess is that either the PCV or the ABS valve for the nearside rear is faulty. I would have expected either of these to fail safe to allow normal braking in the event of a fault occuring, but if one of them has failed in the other position this could explain the lack of fluid to this one wheel.
The HBOL also says that if any component on the ABS unit fails the whole unit must be replaced as individual bits are not available. This makes the original repair quote of £1000 "if we can get the parts" more understandable. When it failed in 2013 it was already 20 years old and probably pretty much worthless, so I can see why the previous owner didn't have it fixed, despite being very attached to it.
So, what to do now? Removal of the ABS unit looks like a bit of a faff, but sounds like it should be possible, and I suppose I have nothing to lose by trying. Does anyone on here (are you there @sierraman?) have any advice to offer? Does anyone have a spare ABS unit and/or pressure control valves? The non-ABS versions also use the PCV valves, but bolted directly to the master cylinder. These look the same as the ABS-equipped ones so maybe one of these would fit if this turns out to be the problem.

 

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Get the part number from the pump unit and go have a shufti on eBay. There are a few pumps on there at the moment, so your luck may be in.

Funnily enough, when we had our Mondeo, the ABS unit was knackered from day one. We had been sold it without working ABS. The mechanic pulled the bulb out of the instrument panel. It took me three years to finally work out what had happened after replacing multiple wheel sensors and extensive brake tests! 
The multi plug that goes into the ABS unit (under the master cylinder) had corroded and snapped off, taking multiple pins with it. This was in 2003, and by then the car was 10 years old....We were also quoted a ridiculous amount to replace the ABS unit and so I did a lengthy phone call session. I phoned all the local breakers yards but they had no pump for a 2.0i (they are different depending on engine size?) but I found one place called Mondeopart in Drayton just outside Norwich who sold me a working unit which matched perfectly against my old one for just £30. Needless to say I flew over there within an hour and picked it up. We got our (other) mechanic to fit it and we had ABS for the first time since we bought it. It should never have been sold the way it was but hey ho, you live and learn.
 

Mondeopart are still trading. It may be worth ringing them as they seem like they are the type of place that could possibly have an old unit ‘gathering dust on a shelf‘. 01603 866999.

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Does you have a part number for said ABS unit?

I don't know too much about the crossover of parts on Ford models, but I took a unit off a Cougar I broke for spares (#1 on this link here).  It's a Bosch unit with what I believe should have the TCS system.

150713074_ABSthingy.thumb.jpg.980e5f805e42794d2db40b44ea41cbf9.jpg

Edited to add this is from a V6, so reading the above makes me think it wouldn't work anyway..

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You can replace them individually but your chances of finding the parts are slim. What I’d do in this situation would be to fit a standard  master cylinder, and do away with the ABS, you could check for fluid on the ports. 

Issue you have with this is yours will be a cable clutch being a ‘93, later master cylinders have a take off for the hydraulic clutch. 

Before you go down this though I’d exhaust the simple stuff like a crushed brake pipe. 

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anyone know the place where brewer had the corrado one done?

same era and likely bosch

https://www.ecutesting.com/categories/abs-pump-modules/

https://www.atpelectronics.co.uk/pages/abs-pump-repair.html

https://www.apexmotcargarage.co.uk/repairs/abs-pump-repair

 

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This is the thing with these cars, it’s not like an old Cortina or whatever where it might use a component like a Lucas ACR that you could jury rig up from another car even of a different make. A lot of the technology used on them was in its infancy and was moving fast, a surprising amount of components for them are simply no longer available and are not easily remanufactured. 

I could say with fair confidence it’s the hydraulic actuator on the mechatronic ABS unit is stuck which necessitates stripping the unit down but that’s not a DIY task. You could try one of the above but I don’t know what they’d charge whether it’d be easier to just fit the basic master cylinder. 

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would see if fluid comes out of the pipe supplying the pressure control valve first in the way you tested the flex pipe , pressure control valve would be an easy fix

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Funnily enough I sold a Master Cylinder for one last week, had loads of people asking for them, don’t know if they get used in Kit cars or something. I guess you could adapt a later one by blocking off the Clutch take off. 

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I take it the ABS unit on late Mk2s - like Sierramans breaker- is different? 

I had ABS on a T reg LX, so assume practically any later Mk2 apart from maybe the pov-spec Aspen would have had ABS. 

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No the 93-97 ones have a different Bosch system, that’s the issue otherwise you could use a 2.5 V6 one. The 94-95 ones have the hydraulic clutch as well though this isn’t a big issue, you’d just plug the port for the clutch. ABS was an option on most of them it wasn’t necessarily standard fit. 

Like I say I’d get hold of a later master cylinder and servo, plug the hydraulic clutch take off then run it that way. You’ll possibly need to bypass the sensors and just wire a circuit via the handbrake switch under the handbrake ratchet. 

Chances are ABS was an option anyway on this, you could fuck about mending various modules but swapping the master cylinder isn’t a big job on these, fiddliest bit is getting the R clip out of the pin on the RHD bar on the bulkhead. Further thought you might need to change the ends of the unions to the 11mm and the 13mm unions but this is brass tacks. 

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Is removing the ABS even an option? 

I thought it was one of those safety systems that for the MOT "if it was fitted from new it must be present and working" or it will fail.  I'm positive I recall a friend having problems getting a Saab 9000 with ABS issues through a test where the parts were made of pure unobtanium, and having totally removed all trace of the system ran into an "MOT computer says no" situation.  As I recall it took about another year but they did eventually get it sorted, after finding a donor car and having to reinstall a lot of kit they'd taken off.

This is going back to 2010 or so, so things may have changed since!

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According to the U.K. market press launch pack, Ghia and Si had ABS as standard fit from the start.

Whether an MoT computer/database would know that in 2020? - I don’t know, but would guess it would as the data would logically come from Ford.

4C2DE60B-C3E8-4DED-B8EB-87F5E527C3C1.jpeg

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No they’d not give a toss I’d reckon. I had a 2000 one with the reluctor rings on the driveshaft, didn’t have ABS, the driveshafts came like that. Sounds a better idea than throwing cash at an expensive problem. £40 and a litre of fluid and it’s back on the road. Or rather in an MOTable condition, you could spend a few hundred on having the module mended and test it for it to fail on a variety of issue, likeliest being corrosion, brake pipes, excessive CO2 and bollocked suspension. 

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On 5/24/2020 at 6:46 PM, egg said:

Seems like there could be a front end leak as well. I would remove the wiper blades. and the "grille'' pieces underneath to see what the pollen filter looks like - as that is a common source.

Lots here about leak problems

http://www.mirez.co.uk/WaterProbs.htm

Many thanks @egg. Really useful info here, particularly about the bulkhead leaks, since the sound deadening stuff on the front bulkhead was also soaking wet. Removed the wiper arms and the grilles underneath them. Speedo cable grommet looked in good condition but put some clear silicone sealant around the outer edge between the grommet and the bukhead and the inner edge between the grommet and the speedo cable while it's apart just to be sure.
 Removed the pollen filter and its housing. New pollen filter arrived today. Think the old one was definitely past its best. Possibly even the original from 27 years ago? Note the large hole where it looks as though someone has put their finger through it (no, it wasn't me) then refitted it. The foam along the two long edges had also completely disintegrated into dust.

 

20200528_164138.thumb.jpg.4a6b5e450b583136f647279df14ff9bc.jpg

As predicted in the above article, the rubber seal between the housing and the bulkhead was perished and split. Now waiting for some more foam sealing strip to arrive before refitting this.

Decided to ignore the possibly disastrous brake problems for now and attack the carpet instead. There are some pictures further back in the thread of the state it was in when removed. First attempt at cleaning was to go over it with a dry short-haired nylon scrubbing brush (and yes I did wear a face mask, no telling what was lurking in there).

20200528_143734.thumb.jpg.eb0c777aaed1a0d9b5afe60c09028e33.jpg

Passenger side done first. Hopefully you can see a difference.

20200528_160942.thumb.jpg.120937cd44c451fc8529b9c22a2acec3.jpg

Then the drivers side. Looking much better already. I thought the grey patches where the worst of the mould had been were where it had faded and the brown patches were rust stains. But went over it with the vacuum cleaner (thanks again @beko1987  the Numatic Henry is doing sterling service, though Mrs Silver complains when I steal it to use it in the garage or on the cars), the grey turned out to be the remains of the white powdery mould and the brown was surface dried mud. So:

20200528_163340.thumb.jpg.947aa7fe839cf619c6ad3066de25d0d0.jpg

I'm going to call that a result. Thought about shampooing it, or even redying it as per the excellent @vulgalour Princess thread, but this will do for now. At least if it has to go over the bridge eventually it will be slightly less toxic.
Still musing over the brakes. No experience of ABS but it's not rocket science (I hope) and I guess I have nothing to lose by stripping it down. Watch this space.
 

 

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That carpet's an amazing transformation, well done!  A manky interior can really spoil an otherwise decent car, nice to see this one coming back together.  If you find they need more work, to get the mould and stink out of the ancient, damp carpets in my Princess I took them out, sprayed them liberally with diluted G101 cleaner, scrubbed with a brush and borrowed a pressure washer to blast the dirt out of them.  It didn't take long and the colour of the water that came out of them was disgusting.  They dried quickly in the sun over a couple of days and look, feel and smell vastly better.

Good luck on the ABS.

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Excellent result with the carpet. That looks a million times better.

Re: rear light leak, thinking back to when we had ours, I’m 99% sure we had the same problem, and dad just put gaffer tape around the tops of the lights and that seemed to stop it. 

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30 minutes ago, Slowsilver said:

As predicted in the above article, the rubber seal between the housing and the bulkhead was perished and split.

I think the only reason the seal on mine isn't completely perished as the car was probably garaged for most of it's life.  On my thread yesterday I decided to leave it alone as it still looks ok. But eventually, that's a job that will need doing.

Note on later cars the nearside scuttle grille is actually fake - the thing is actually solid - reduces water ingress, but probably reduces air flow a bit. Ford were very proud of the  airflow on the Mondeo - featured heavily in early advertising.

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I was thinking about Bob's friend's ABS in the middle of the night.

  • I have a Gunsons OBD1 code reader - I've not used it yet - but I do have a list of all the 'trouble codes' - but ABS is not included. I'm guessing, and someone correct me, that this is because the ABS isn't linked to the car's main ECU? It's effectively a stand-alone system.
  • Then I thought - how would a Ford dealer have diagnosed ABS issues in a pre-OBD2 world - would they play 'parts darts' - or is there another diagnostic process?
  • This also got me thinking about how more generally 80's-90's cars with complex systems pre-OBD2 (1996) are going to be a pig to to sort out. If this was a Sierra or Cortina pretty much any problem could be solved by the brains on this forum.

Sorry, not that helpful, but just thinking out loud...

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When it was new it would be plugged into the FDS2000 or whatever to diagnose ABS problems, anyway you’d have checked the validity of whether the wheel sensors worked with a multimeter. Likewise the Airbag and Central Locking has its own test procedure, the airbag being the number of flashes of the airbag light, the central locking and alarm you pressed the door switch several times to put it into test mode, it beeped when a component was working successfully, that’s to say if you opened the bonnet and the bonnet switch was ok it would beep.

A lot of it went back to basic mechanical common sense, usually the central locking solenoids were piss wet through when the seals had let rainwater in. Boring lesson for today. As you were...

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On 5/28/2020 at 5:57 PM, egg said:

I think the only reason the seal on mine isn't completely perished as the car was probably garaged for most of it's life.  On my thread yesterday I decided to leave it alone as it still looks ok. But eventually, that's a job that will need doing.

Note on later cars the nearside scuttle grille is actually fake - the thing is actually solid - reduces water ingress, but probably reduces air flow a bit. Ford were very proud of the  airflow on the Mondeo - featured heavily in early advertising.

You used to be able to buy the seal, it was something like six quid from Ford, you’d just fix it in with Sikaflex now, much better seal. Like everything else I’d assume the seal is NLA, this was going back years when I worked on them and they were fairly current. 

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