invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Charger weighs 16kg, so that leaves the unladen weight (without batteries). 165 + 16 = 181 kg

interesting! Its good to get the fine/technical details, a lot of that is missing for these earlier machines, so I really appreciate you taking your time out to get the details for me   for example I dont actually know what the top speed or full range of an electric Argson is, I mean I have some rough ideas from bits and pieces I have picked up over the years, but I have never actually seen one conduct a proper road test and noted down the results of such a test

[brummiejon]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting! Its good to get the fine/technical details, a lot of that is missing for these earlier machines, so I really appreciate you taking your time out to get the details for me   for example I dont actually know what the top speed or full range of an electric Argson is, I mean I have some rough ideas from bits and pieces I have picked up over the years, but I have never actually seen one conduct a proper road test and noted down the results of such a test

Range is dependant on the batteries... it's hard to get batteries that fit and are matched to each other, 6v batteries are the limiting factor. The range now is infinitely better than it was in 1953 because batteries are better, have better chemistry and capacity is greater...

Top speed on a flat is about 15mph, downhill is bloody scary if you let it run away with you, thank heavens for the regeneration brake... .

Anything over about 15mph and it becomes a bit of a handful... one hill in my town Flo can be on high power, highest speed, 2mph, but she does power on, lots of torque in that little motor.... I made it up the same hill on low power (18v) 1mph but it pulled like a train, 1/3 ton plus me...

[High Jetter]

5 hours ago, brummiejon said:

Just put Flo in a weighbridge

That had me worried for a moment! Brilliant work with weights calcs.

[D.E]

GTW 540N

[LightBulbFun]

On 05/07/2024 at 19:33, D.E said:

GTW 540N

thats a nice one that I have not seen before  has Model 70 and FX4's  

[Christine]

When is Rev back home ?  Or is it home already? 

[D.E]

Not sure how (there wasn't an official importer it seems) or why, but at least one Larmar ended up in Groningen...

 

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, D.E said:

Not sure how (there wasn't an official importer it seems) or why, but at least one Larmar ended up in Groningen...

 

Wow thats an impressive find! first foreign Larmar car I have seen  I wonder what its story, does the registration mark tell us anything about its age or date of first registration? 

just wondering like the Cyprus AC Acedes I am wondering if we can figure out if that was registered when new or a used import

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/379/#comment-3016249

 

[D.E]

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Wow thats an impressive find! first foreign Larmar car I have seen  I wonder what its story, does the registration mark tell us anything about its age or date of first registration? 

just wondering like the Cyprus AC Acedes I am wondering if we can figure out if that was registered when new or a used import

Yes! This reg is an old style provincial reg, and was first assigned to this Larmar on the last day of 1947.  The owner was one Engelbert Heinrich Paap , who didn't keep it very long, and sold it to  Alle Annes Fokkinga (who also lived in Groningen) in June 1948. So far I haven't been able to find more recent traces or info of this Larmar. I did find some articles dated 1946 concerning the Larmar in Dutch newspapers though, strangely none of them mention the Larmar is intended for disabled drivers.

Speaking of newspapers, according to a 1991 article in NRC Handelsblad an AC Invacar was shown at Techno Classica in Essen that year.  Do you have any info or pictures of this?

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, D.E said:

Yes! This reg is an old style provincial reg, and was first assigned to this Larmar on the last day of 1947.  The owner was one Engelbert Heinrich Paap , who didn't keep it very long, and sold it to  Alle Annes Fokkinga (who also lived in Groningen) in June 1948. So far I haven't been able to find more recent traces or info of this Larmar. I did find some articles dated 1946 concerning the Larmar in Dutch newspapers though, strangely none of them mention the Larmar is intended for disabled drivers.

Speaking of newspapers, according to a 1991 article in NRC Handelsblad an AC Invacar was shown at Techno Clasisca in Essen that year.  Do you have any info or pictures of this?

very interesting! the Larmar car was famously very car like, so attract quite a bit of interest from those interested in just a small Microcar, so much so that the British goverment levied the full amount of purchase tax on them, which immediately killed their appeal overnight 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6132784

after this Larmar was said to have introduced a Mark B with space for a folding wheelchair, but its unknown if anywhere actually produced or not

so perhaps the Larmar car was purchased by someone in the Netherlands who just wanted a small Microcar? the Larmar was specficly designed to fit inside the width of a standard household doorway, such that if a disabled person did not have a garage to keep their Larmar car, they could at least physically bring it inside!

I wonder if anyone did that? someone with a Larmar car parked in their living room instead of an arm chair  

 

thats very interesting on the 1991 mention of an "AC Invacar" I dont have anything directly on that, but I have to wonder if that was HEV109H? this Invacar was imported to the Netherlands in 1979 by a a Harry (I think), Rutgers, he did a trade with some of the other early microcar collectors in the UK for this Invacar Mk12 and a Scootercar and in exchange, England got its first Kleinschnittger, I still wonder what the exact story of HEV109H, who exactly sourced it for Mr Rutgers, and how! I note for example it has a DHSS Ministry Reserve sticker in its windscreen, so did someone manage to smuggle it out of Heywood even back in 1979?

 

 

back on the Larmar car, I have a good friend of mine who is dutch and so I of course alerted him to this  (he aint into Invacars like I am or anything such, but you know me I still of course had to tell him about it  ) and he did a bit of sleuthing on it with the information to hand and its quite interesting 

Quote

Interesting note is that Paap seems to have been Fokkinga's father in law
So that Larmar remained in the family, so to speak
https://www.openarchieven.nl/gra:f483b381-ce47-bb1c-c551-e6dce1e391b1
Page on Froukiena Paap, mentions Engelbert to be her father
And this page mentions A.A. Fokkinga having married F. Paap: https://fhu.home.xs4all.nl/webpage/stamboom fokkinga.htm
And this page also mentions it, along with the 1939 as the year of marriage, as on the first site: http://www.tent-ommen.nl/37663.htm#BM90984
https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/steenbergen-lineages/I15972.php
 

and my good friend goes onto say

Quote

Engelbert died in 1948, so that's probably why the car ended up with the son in law then
Oddly that page only says he had a son, but the name of his wife corresponds to the page of their daughter
My theory would be that Engelbert was suffering from illness or a disability, and got the Larmar as a practical vehicle, only to die months after getting it. SIL inherits it

all in all quite interesting, who knew this level of detail was out there about the family of a Random Dutch larmar Car! I wonder what did become of it in the end? is it still about somewhere hiding away in a garage or someones home?  

 

and for those curious he also translated the news paper snippet 

Quote

This little car was shown off in recent days at a carshow in London. Good looking....? No, certainly not. But of utmost practicality for getting to work quickly, or to go out shopping with. It costs 198 pound. And one will not be bothered by "lifters"! There is only space for one person. Brand "Larmar".

 

[LightBulbFun]

Much excite this morning as I woke up to find this in my email inbox! yes its @Saabnut in his new retirement getup! its REV at speed! rather fittingly just a few days after the 5th anniversary of me having bought/picked her up!  

its something I am most excited to see, and see that she is performing well, the CVT system sounds to be shifting smoothly  up to 45Mph then going into fixed ratio overdrive and then once throttle is released, shifting smoothly back down as it should  , which is one of the things that has always been on my mind since the day I got REV is what sort of shape is her CVT system in, its the one part of a Model 70 that does not like sitting around getting damp/rusty for 20 years (as rust can pit the belt surfaces and cause the belt to not shift smoothly across the face of the pully and get shredded by the pitting, and also the pulley sheaves themselves ride on a central shaft and I am told if that shaft itself gets rusty it can impede movement of the pulley sheaves themselves) 

thankfully it looks like I need not have worried  (in the intervening years I have managed to pickup a spare set of pulleys but that was not always the case!)

 

[LightBulbFun]

20 minutes ago, Talbot said:

101FC:

Which came with a 3.5 V8 and gearbox from the original 70s range rover, six-stud axles (unique) and a very restricted driving position.  Also the only vehicle I've ever known where you can top up the brake and clutch fluids while you're driving.  15mpg is doing very well.  8mpg is more like it.

thats true of a fair number of Villiers powered Invalid vehicles too, and in one of those your already driving one handed

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Much excite this morning as I woke up to find this in my email inbox!

Great to see! Any idea how long before it will be ready for you to have back?

[barefoot]

If the radio works, I'm happy to drive it for two or three km on its journey south.

[Noel Tidybeard]

KRAZY NORSE FISHERMAN WHITE LINES A BLUE WHISTLE

[egg]

Sounds in fine health and is 'getting down the road pretty well' as Mike Brewer would say.

[egg]

32 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

KRAZY NORSE FISHERMAN WHITE LINES A BLUE WHISTLE

Captain Redbeard's cousin?

[Christine]

What leg of the relay back to London  is Retroshite doing ?    

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Great to see! Any idea how long before it will be ready for you to have back?

hoping for august sometime, basically as I understand it apart from a little bit more minor fettling that Duncan wants to do it really is just now just a case of waiting until a free transport slot comes up so to speak  

59 minutes ago, egg said:

Sounds in fine health and is 'getting down the road pretty well' as Mike Brewer would say.

indeed it very much sounds like @red5's battle with the carburettor has got it running spot on  

53 minutes ago, egg said:

Captain Redbeard's cousin?

I was more thinking either @catsinthewelder's dad/grandfather, or its actually Cats himself from the future after some sort of suitably autoshite time travelling incident

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

KRAZY NORSE FISHERMAN WHITE LINES A BLUE WHISTLE

well I did say I am pretty sure she is closer @Dyslexic Viking then she is to me right now!  

[High Jetter]

I, for one, really hope you do get it back soon. You really deserve it after all your efforts, and those of the people who have put time and energy into getting it sorted for you.

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

That's great news LBF. Great to see everything coming together and huge peace of mind for you knowing that it's had several decent shakedowns and tweaks along the way. 

I guess the biggie now will be a maintenance plan moving forward. I don't know logitistics with Duncan but he sounds like the sort of bloke it would be worth paying once every 6 months to cast an eye over things and to keep REV ticking over nicely. 

Slight aside, but what's the pipe running up the screen pillar and roof? 

[barefoot]

36 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Slight aside, but what's the pipe running up the screen pillar and roof?

Hoover.

[Dyslexic Viking]

37 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Slight aside, but what's the pipe running up the screen pillar and roof? 

The heater?

[Noel Tidybeard]

43 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Slight aside, but what's the pipe running up the screen pillar and roof? 

posh deluxe version with an heater!🤣

[Dick Cheeseburger]

10 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

The heater?

 

5 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

posh deluxe version with an heater!🤣

Bloody hell, the sheer decadence! 🤣

[auntiemaryscanary]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I guess the biggie now will be a maintenance plan moving forward.

Great to see it running and sounding good. Watching the vid my exact thoughts were scheduled maintenance and unscheduled repairs. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

That's great news LBF. Great to see everything coming together and huge peace of mind for you knowing that it's had several decent shakedowns and tweaks along the way. 

indeed! just to see/hear that it is all running smoothly and she can get up to speed without issue a big relief

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I guess the biggie now will be a maintenance plan moving forward. I don't know logitistics with Duncan but he sounds like the sort of bloke it would be worth paying once every 6 months to cast an eye over things and to keep REV ticking over nicely. 

I think the sheer distance between me and Duncan precludes  a regular maintenance plan like that, as much as I would be game for that otherwise, but I have some ideas, first of is of course once she is here, physically driving her to a few of the local garages and seeing what they make of doing routine things like changing brake shoes and things like that

and at some point I plan to fire @Zelandeth at REV and see what he thinks, namely for the fact that of course, he has had TPA now for just over 6 years now!   so I think its pretty safe to say he knows through real-world experience how a Model 70 should look and behave so to speak and of course goes without saying, he knows his mechanical onions in general, so of course I would like his opinion/thoughts on things regardless

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Slight aside, but what's the pipe running up the screen pillar and roof? 

thats the windscreen demister hot air supply pipe  what im wondering is what is the Clothes peg for! do you clamp it round the throttle cable for cruise control? (I would of jokingly said choke but a Model 70 does not have *that* style of choke control)

[plasticvandan]

Good to see,and seems to be going well,first one of I've seen running without that weird popping and farting on pulling away.

The worst thing it can do is sit idle after all the work,and if you keep in top of the regular maintenance,it should stay in fine fettle

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Good to see,and seems to be going well,first one of I've seen running without that weird popping and farting on pulling away.

The worst thing it can do is sit idle after all the work,and if you keep in top of the regular maintenance,it should stay in fine fettle

I dont for see her stting idle too much hopefully! certainly not in the immediate feature, a fellow long time friend/lighting collector, has booked me in as the guest of honour so to speak at a gathering of lighting collectors he is holding on the 5th of October (think of it like the FoD gathering, but for lightbulb enthusiasts) 

only problem is he lives in Kidderminster, thats what a 3 hour drive up the M40? so I am kinda slightly bricking it there just for the fact even if REV appears on the 1st of August, thats still only a couple months to get ready for a big old drive! maybe I am selling myself short, but given that I have only gone to the chippy and back thus far in her, I think its understandable why I am a bit nervous about that! I do wish my friend had not so confidently booked me in like that! (I didn't really have any say in it, I just noticed my name appeared on the "lightbulbs/streetlights spoken for list" etc etc and its pretty clear from his demeanour that he is expecting me there!, my mistake for sharing with him the progress of REV I think he sort of took that as a "oh she will be back in now time now!")

 

and indeed no popping back through the carb, again @red5 very much has magic tuning fingers in that regard  @Zelandeth's TPA is the only other one I know that runs so well  

[plasticvandan]

I grew up in Worcester,not that far from Kidderminster,personally I would take the train,not because the car wouldn't make it,but it would be a very exhausting trip,and three hours on motorways as an inexperienced driver in a lets be honest vehicle not designed for motorway work may not be the best idea.