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LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...


LightBulbFun

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14 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Charger weighs 16kg, so that leaves the unladen weight (without batteries). 165 + 16 = 181 kg

interesting! Its good to get the fine/technical details, a lot of that is missing for these earlier machines, so I really appreciate you taking your time out to get the details for me :)  for example I dont actually know what the top speed or full range of an electric Argson is, I mean I have some rough ideas from bits and pieces I have picked up over the years, but I have never actually seen one conduct a proper road test and noted down the results of such a test

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1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting! Its good to get the fine/technical details, a lot of that is missing for these earlier machines, so I really appreciate you taking your time out to get the details for me :)  for example I dont actually know what the top speed or full range of an electric Argson is, I mean I have some rough ideas from bits and pieces I have picked up over the years, but I have never actually seen one conduct a proper road test and noted down the results of such a test

Range is dependant on the batteries... it's hard to get batteries that fit and are matched to each other, 6v batteries are the limiting factor. The range now is infinitely better than it was in 1953 because batteries are better, have better chemistry and capacity is greater...

Top speed on a flat is about 15mph, downhill is bloody scary if you let it run away with you, thank heavens for the regeneration brake... .

Anything over about 15mph and it becomes a bit of a handful... one hill in my town Flo can be on high power, highest speed, 2mph, but she does power on, lots of torque in that little motor.... I made it up the same hill on low power (18v) 1mph but it pulled like a train, 1/3 ton plus me...

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5 hours ago, brummiejon said:

Just put Flo in a weighbridge

That had me worried for a moment! Brilliant work with weights calcs.

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9 hours ago, D.E said:

Not sure how (there wasn't an official importer it seems) or why, but at least one Larmar ended up in Groningen...

IMG_20240710_193035.jpg.e0f81e6b1b5c6ec5a754a0a9181b633b.jpg

 

Wow thats an impressive find! first foreign Larmar car I have seen :) I wonder what its story, does the registration mark tell us anything about its age or date of first registration? 

just wondering like the Cyprus AC Acedes I am wondering if we can figure out if that was registered when new or a used import

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/379/#comment-3016249

 

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4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Wow thats an impressive find! first foreign Larmar car I have seen :) I wonder what its story, does the registration mark tell us anything about its age or date of first registration? 

just wondering like the Cyprus AC Acedes I am wondering if we can figure out if that was registered when new or a used import

Yes! This reg is an old style provincial reg, and was first assigned to this Larmar on the last day of 1947.  The owner was one Engelbert Heinrich Paap , who didn't keep it very long, and sold it to  Alle Annes Fokkinga (who also lived in Groningen) in June 1948. So far I haven't been able to find more recent traces or info of this Larmar. I did find some articles dated 1946 concerning the Larmar in Dutch newspapers though, strangely none of them mention the Larmar is intended for disabled drivers.

larmar.jpg.fe9510bbb5764321c85b988eec8ae487.jpg

Speaking of newspapers, according to a 1991 article in NRC Handelsblad an AC Invacar was shown at Techno Classica in Essen that year.  Do you have any info or pictures of this?

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35 minutes ago, D.E said:

Yes! This reg is an old style provincial reg, and was first assigned to this Larmar on the last day of 1947.  The owner was one Engelbert Heinrich Paap , who didn't keep it very long, and sold it to  Alle Annes Fokkinga (who also lived in Groningen) in June 1948. So far I haven't been able to find more recent traces or info of this Larmar. I did find some articles dated 1946 concerning the Larmar in Dutch newspapers though, strangely none of them mention the Larmar is intended for disabled drivers.

larmar.jpg.fe9510bbb5764321c85b988eec8ae487.jpg

Speaking of newspapers, according to a 1991 article in NRC Handelsblad an AC Invacar was shown at Techno Clasisca in Essen that year.  Do you have any info or pictures of this?

very interesting! the Larmar car was famously very car like, so attract quite a bit of interest from those interested in just a small Microcar, so much so that the British goverment levied the full amount of purchase tax on them, which immediately killed their appeal overnight 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6132784

after this Larmar was said to have introduced a Mark B with space for a folding wheelchair, but its unknown if anywhere actually produced or not

so perhaps the Larmar car was purchased by someone in the Netherlands who just wanted a small Microcar? the Larmar was specficly designed to fit inside the width of a standard household doorway, such that if a disabled person did not have a garage to keep their Larmar car, they could at least physically bring it inside!

I wonder if anyone did that? someone with a Larmar car parked in their living room instead of an arm chair :) 

 

thats very interesting on the 1991 mention of an "AC Invacar" I dont have anything directly on that, but I have to wonder if that was HEV109H? this Invacar was imported to the Netherlands in 1979 by a a Harry (I think), Rutgers, he did a trade with some of the other early microcar collectors in the UK for this Invacar Mk12 and a Scootercar and in exchange, England got its first Kleinschnittger, I still wonder what the exact story of HEV109H, who exactly sourced it for Mr Rutgers, and how! I note for example it has a DHSS Ministry Reserve sticker in its windscreen, so did someone manage to smuggle it out of Heywood even back in 1979?

 HEV109H.jpeg

 

back on the Larmar car, I have a good friend of mine who is dutch and so I of course alerted him to this :) (he aint into Invacars like I am or anything such, but you know me I still of course had to tell him about it :) ) and he did a bit of sleuthing on it with the information to hand and its quite interesting 

Quote

Interesting note is that Paap seems to have been Fokkinga's father in law
So that Larmar remained in the family, so to speak
https://www.openarchieven.nl/gra:f483b381-ce47-bb1c-c551-e6dce1e391b1
Page on Froukiena Paap, mentions Engelbert to be her father
And this page mentions A.A. Fokkinga having married F. Paap: https://fhu.home.xs4all.nl/webpage/stamboom fokkinga.htm
And this page also mentions it, along with the 1939 as the year of marriage, as on the first site: http://www.tent-ommen.nl/37663.htm#BM90984
https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/steenbergen-lineages/I15972.php
 

and my good friend goes onto say

Quote

Engelbert died in 1948, so that's probably why the car ended up with the son in law then
Oddly that page only says he had a son, but the name of his wife corresponds to the page of their daughter
My theory would be that Engelbert was suffering from illness or a disability, and got the Larmar as a practical vehicle, only to die months after getting it. SIL inherits it

all in all quite interesting, who knew this level of detail was out there about the family of a Random Dutch larmar Car! I wonder what did become of it in the end? is it still about somewhere hiding away in a garage or someones home? :) 

 

and for those curious he also translated the news paper snippet 

Quote

This little car was shown off in recent days at a carshow in London. Good looking....? No, certainly not. But of utmost practicality for getting to work quickly, or to go out shopping with. It costs 198 pound. And one will not be bothered by "lifters"! There is only space for one person. Brand "Larmar".

 

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