invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, bobdisk said:

Bottom left of pic, you can just see the corner of the open door. @LightBulbFun, am I right? ❓🤔

Bingo  

 

speaking of old Photographs a couple nice ones popped up on eBay recently

first one of a 1962 AC Acedes Model 57  831YPE its neat to see one on a 3 number 3 letter reverse plate this late, most I see from this period happen to be on 4 digit 2 letter reverse plates

its also interesting to note the hubcaps, I noticed that earlier Acedes machines tend have a different style of hub cap then the standard 12 inch hubcap you normally see on Ministry Standard 1957 Dunlop LP 591 wheels, but perhaps the hubcap itself had not been standardised yet, so each mfg did their own thing? figuring out the fine details like this can be a fun one!

and a nice one of an early 1956 Harper Mk1 YPJ999  its amusing to note just how large the fog light looks compared to the rest of the machine!

 

I do wonder what the story of these photos where, because I know colour film was not cheap back then, so these must of meant something for the person to use it on them

[LightBulbFun]

did a bit more digging on the whole invalid carriage legislation front and it turns out that the DVSA still has guidance to driving test examiners on on how to give a driving test for an invalid carriage user!

I wonder if this implies that if you really wanted to you could ring up the DVSA and still take a driving test in a Model 70!,  along the same lines I do wonder when the last time someone one took their driving test in an Invalid vehicle was...

I mean keep in mind even after the Ministry stopped issuing them and AC/Invacar stopped making them, nothing stopped someone back then buying an existing private example from someone on the used market!

and its fun to think in such a scenario it might not be a Model 70, but could be a Villers machine or even electric machine!

(and within the Ministry I guess if a User somehow lost their licence through bad driving and was forced to retake their test? although I imagine if you managed to get such an offence the Ministry would also take your vehicle from you!)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-examiners-carrying-out-driving-tests-dt1/06-particular-types-of-vehicle-and-adaptations

they also amusingly have a section dedicated to the Citroen XM's parking brake  (I cant say I recall seeing an extra foot pedal when I drove the XM at the FoD?)

and for those curious details on a Home test/Category F (Tractor test) can be found here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-examiners-carrying-out-driving-tests-dt1/01-the-practical-driving-test-and-extended-test-for-cars

[Six-cylinder]

40 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

they also amusingly have a section dedicated to the Citroen XM's parking brake  (I cant say I recall seeing an extra foot pedal when I drove the XM at the FoD?)

 

Here are the handbrake controls on an XM, partly operated by foot!

The whole parking brake arrangement on an XM was stupid because if you have a manual you are faced with 4 pedals!

The arrangement of operating on front discs was also unsatisfactory. The problem is if your apply a light griping pressure that just holds your car, when the brakes cool down they contract and allow you car to roll away. Several customers and my boss experienced this when I worked for a Citroen dealer in the mid 1990s.  

 

[Snake Charmer]

Just like my Mercedes only French.  

[Dobloseven]

Reminds me of many years ago when the fellow opposite left his XM(manual) blocking his drive and went to India. His daughter, and myself, when she asked for help, were well confused by it when it needed moving. Think recent Vauxhalls with rear discs have similar handbrake problems with cooling discs. I know my 66 reg Zafira C has its moments if I don't pull it on hard enough at the end of the day on our sloping drive. 

[wesacosa]

5 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

Here are the handbrake controls on an XM, partly operated by foot!

The whole parking brake arrangement on an XM was stupid because if you have a manual you are faced with 4 pedals!

The arrangement of operating on front discs was also unsatisfactory. The problem is if your apply a light griping pressure that just holds your car, when the brakes cool down they contract and allow you car to roll away. Several customers and my boss experienced this when I worked for a Citroen dealer in the mid 1990s.  

 

I believe when the XM was launched it was auto only so they could get away with it.  They subsequently released a manual version some years later but never bothered to update it.   I still haven't tried a hill start in my XM manual yet, I suspect it should be fun. 

Operating the front callipers and not the rear has no doubt caught a few MOT testers out (including mine)

[High Jetter]

XM wasn't the earliest with a foot-operated parking brake though.

[Six-cylinder]

1 hour ago, wesacosa said:

I believe when the XM was launched it was auto only so they could get away with it.  They subsequently released a manual version some years later but never bothered to update it.   I still haven't tried a hill start in my XM manual yet, I suspect it should be fun. 

Operating the front callipers and not the rear has no doubt caught a few MOT testers out (including mine)

The XM V6 was launched as Automatic only but the 2.0 cars were manual at launch of both Oct 1989. Auto was a £908 option on 2.0 cars from Feb 1990.

Hill starting is not a problem, find the clutch balance as usual, one foot on the accelerator and the other on the clutch. Then hand release the parking brake with the dash lever and control progress with the clutch. 

The problem is when you come to a stop with four pedals with one foot on the brake and one on the clutch most people don't have a third foot to apply the parking brake. So I come to a stop holding the car on the footbrake, knock it out of gear then I can release the clutch and apply the foot operated parking brake.  Works but I would rather not have to take it out of gear before I can apply the parking brake. 13 years and many miles of doing that with my 1972 DS, it still feels uncomfortable.

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

Here are the handbrake controls on an XM, partly operated by foot!

The whole parking brake arrangement on an XM was stupid because if you have a manual you are faced with 4 pedals!

The arrangement of operating on front discs was also unsatisfactory. The problem is if your apply a light griping pressure that just holds your car, when the brakes cool down they contract and allow you car to roll away. Several customers and my boss experienced this when I worked for a Citroen dealer in the mid 1990s.  

 

interesting! I wonder how I missed that as a i feel like that would have been something I would have noticed! although of course thinking back to it I cant recall seeing a typical handbrake pull

maybe I was too distracted by the gearshift, which no-matter where I shifted it to, I always ended up in reverse somehow! have you fixed that gear shifter position light yet? LOL

3 hours ago, Snake Charmer said:

Just like my Mercedes only French.  

 

2 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

XM wasn't the earliest with a foot-operated parking brake though.

yeah I noted that too, its interesting how they make specific note of the XM's parking brake arrangement, but make no mention of any Mercedes! (especially as with a Mercedes its released with your foot so on a manual car hill starting is an issue from what I have read about, but I have never driven one! I think the only Mercedes I have ever been in has been Zel's 208D!)

(in-fact Model 70's could be "specced" with a foot operated parking brake as well, but that had 2 pedals, 1 to apply it and 1 to release it, which meant you could have a Model 70 with 4 foot pedals despite being an Automatic! ) 

[mitsisigma01]

.... probably seen before ...

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/invalid-carriage

 

 

[Mrs6C]

57 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

especially as with a Mercedes its released with your foot

Pretty sure the 124s have a parking brake release handle in the dashboard... the foot operates the brake and the handle releases it...

[LightBulbFun]

45 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Pretty sure the 124s have a parking brake release handle in the dashboard... the foot operates the brake and the handle releases it...

ah my bad! I just had recalled some people complaining about the foot parking brake on manual Mercedes making it difficult to do hill starts and requiring you to have about 3 feet!

so because since as @Six-cylinder says with the XM, if the release is done by a handle then hill starting or anything such would not be any different from a regular car*, I assumed with the Mercedes given the complaints that it was not done with a handle but with your foot somehow

(*he says having never driven either a Mercedes or Citroen XM "in anger" yet)

 

speaking of parking up (other tortuous segues are available)

I see Adam (or one of his buddies!) has been papped out and about in GPF282N  

https://twitter.com/TheDreadShips/status/1495864583575253001

its nice to see they are still out and about  

 

[bobdisk]

 Its goodbye to Tiddles today, its in Barons Auctions at Sandown Park, starts 1pm.

https://www.barons-auctions.com/view-auction/51/22-feb-2022---winter-classic

[SiC]

What on earth has happened to my reversing light bulb?

[bobdisk]

Its gone "soft", that is, the vacuum is compromised, and the black on the glass is the filament burning off.  Does it still work, but dimly?

[mitsisigma01]

Probably seen before ...

Early AC Villiers powered 1949 ...

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/invalid-chair/query/disability

[LightBulbFun]

57 minutes ago, SiC said:

What on earth has happened to my reversing light bulb?

that happens when a very slow air leak occurs 

when a hot tungsten filament is lit in a bulb thats gone to air (or has been smashed etc) the hot tungsten filament reacts with the Oxygen in the air to to form Tungsten Trioxide WO3, which has a milky white-yellow colour to it

but if there is a very slow air leak then Tungsten Pentoxide W2O5 is formed instead which has a dark blue colour to it as seen here, usually such slow leaks happen when the glass to metal seals in the stem press are badly done

its a pretty rare failure mode normally bulbs just go to air completely and you get a classic milky white bulb of a lamp thats gone to atmosphere or "lost vacuum" as we say (although most bulbs do contain an inert gas filling of some kind these days!)

for those curious who have not seen an incandescent lamp thats suffered a major air leak before here is an example (not my photo)

(this one failed because exhaust tube in the base had snapped letting air rush into the lamp)

hopefully this makes sense and explains what happened  

[Rusty_Rocket]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

What on earth has happened to my reversing light bulb?

I keep the ones that fail that way!  I have a collection at work 😄

[High Jetter]

I'm all for people keeping weird shit, but blown bulbs? Dead batteries too? 

[Rusty_Rocket]

I only keep the pretty ones!!!

Scrap man gives me petrol tokens for the dead batteries

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 23/02/2022 at 18:29, SiC said:

What on earth has happened to my reversing light bulb?

ah you have a rare Lucas loom smoke collection bulb- most get thrown away as duff! 🤣

[Rusty_Rocket]

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Rusty_Rocket said:

its interesting to note that most of the tungsten lamps that I have seen fail like this

have been automotive lamps for some reason, I do wonder why that is, my current theories are either something to do with lots of thermal cycling stressing the glass to metal seals into failure

and or the rough conditions/vibrations doing the same, maybe water getting in and causing the glass to crack from thermal shock although that normally causes a major air leak

[Missy Charm]

On 22/02/2022 at 08:32, bobdisk said:

 Its goodbye to Tiddles today, its in Barons Auctions at Sandown Park, starts 1pm.

https://www.barons-auctions.com/view-auction/51/22-feb-2022---winter-classic

Aww shame.  Strong money though, well done.  

That Pilot went for a song!  Tempting at that sort of price, so much character in the looks and interior as well as one of the best sounding engines of all time.  

[SiC]

This bulb was replaced at the last service. The car has been pinging up reversing light failure for a while and when it does, it doesn't light the bulb. Actual fault was a corroded connector to the light cluster that confused the body computer.

So there is a good chance it only has had a very short burn time. I imagine in the order of seconds to a minute. 

[CaptainBoom]

**Browses shelf of weird shit that 99% of the population would have thrown away long ago**

I have these three, top right is a standard 12v lamp gone milky white like they do, but blew a tiny hole in the glass where it melted the plastic bulb holder, bottom right is a separation of cap and glass.

The big one on the left (close-up photo also refers) is a weird one, the filament seems to have stretched and where it contacted the glass it has melted it (see the pip on the end).  Luckily I pulled this one out before it destroyed itsel/cracked the glass. 

 

Yes, I really should throw some stuff away!

[reb]

[Dobloseven]

How's REV the Invacar progressing? Any updates at all? 

[3VOM]

11 hours ago, reb said:

Needs a "Not for sale to under 18" or "You must be over 21 to buy this"

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, 3VOM said:

Needs a "Not for sale to under 18" or "You must be over 21 to buy this"

would be not for sale to Under 16's surely as that was the minimum age you where allowed to drive an Invacar at  (and be issued one by the Ministry)

in-fact the Last Civilian Model 70's issued by the Ministry in July 1978 where to 16 year olds as although the Motability scheme was already in place by then, the law had not yet been amended to allow a disabled 16 year old to drive a regular 4 wheeler as someone such can do now

 

dont know what the legal age at which you can become a nun at however LOL

 

2 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

How's REV the Invacar progressing? Any updates at all? 

I understand that @red5 has been making steady progress, as he posted I think the brakes have been sorted

and he is currently working on her remaining niggles, like getting the fuel pump functional, cleaning the carb, adjusting the doors, sorting out the sized choke control/cable and replacing the dynastart belts and the such like  

but its probably best Red5 directly chimes in to say whats been done/getting done least I miss anything!