Project Dollywobbler's Invacar - Ongoing

[dollywobbler]

Ugh. New plugs got her running again, but she's clearly not happy. Flames!

https://twitter.com/HubNutVids/status/949669422251347968

[SiC]

Timing or point gap off?

[dollywobbler]

Timing seems to be off. Test light suggests it's several degrees retarded. Makes sense, because the exhaust gets very hot, very quickly. Problem is, the distributor is absolutely seized in place. I've removed the collar bolt for adjustment entirely, and loosened the nut that holds it to the engine and it will not budge, despite considerable violence and penetrating oil.

 

I'm not sure what to do now. Other than stay out of the garage for the day...

[tooSavvy]

Hold the distributor firmly in a vice = advance the car 6deg

 

TS

[SiC]

If the distributor hasn't moved because it can't, what has caused the timing to be off?

[dollywobbler]

A fair theory, that has crossed my mind too. Points gap is correct. Did wonder if they deliberately retarded them to slow them down...

[richardmorris]

I thought flames only came ( accidentally) If the timing was off. So the spark ⚡️ arrives before the valves have closed.

[Christine]

They must have  INVA- tec   and it's stuck...

[dollywobbler]

I thought flames only came ( accidentally) If the timing was off. So the spark ⚡️ arrives before the valves have closed.

 

That's possible. Also, a mixture that's too lean can cause this. I may take the top off the carb again. I did today and cleaned the float bowls out (quite grim), but having now actually looked at a diagram of the carburettor, I missed the main jets completely (invisible when standing behind the engine).

[DodgeRover]

Rather than retard the timing you could lower the octane of the fuel....I'm assuming these were optimised for 2 star or pool petrol?

[dollywobbler]

Rather than retard the timing you could lower the octane of the fuel....I'm assuming these were optimised for 2 star or pool petrol?

 

They were indeed. Says under the bonnet 2 star only, though as this one was still in use in 2002, it would have been running on 95RON.

[Asimo]

Is the advance / retard mechanism seized? It should be possible to move the rotor arm against the centrifugal advance springs 10degrees or so, likewise vacuum connection should move the points mounting plate several degrees when you suck or blow down th tube.

[dollywobbler]

Don't believe there's a vacuum set up on these. Rotor arm does move about as much as you say. I did wonder.

 

I've just watched a video I recorded on 22nd December, and it was running pretty well then - albeit disguised by the exhaust that was blowing on one side.

 

So, SiC's point stands, and does make me wonder whether a jet has got clogged, which is leaning out the mixture. Exhaust could just be getting hot quickly because it's very short...

 

So, while it'd be nice to be able to adjust the ignition timing, I think I might first have another peek inside the carburettor and get the main jet out.

[dollywobbler]

Oh, I did have it running long enough to confirm that it still isn't charging properly.

[SiC]

If it's not charging, I assume the battery had a decent amount of charge in it? What is the point condition like?

 

Has the dynastart ever charged? I don't know much about dynastart but if there is only one contact and the fact it's starting must mean it's something in the regulator.

[dollywobbler]

I'm losing my mind. Two days ago, it was running beautifully! Handy doing these videos. I'm a bit behind with publishing, so I've got a LOT that hasn't been seen yet. Sure enough, on the 4th, I ran the engine for ages, and it sounded beautiful. What went wrong?

 

Possible it's sucked some crap from the tank, despite the filter. Perhaps I'd better start by checking that.

[Zelandeth]

Could even just be some crud that was already in the carb has just managed to dislodge itself from where it was previously harmlessly hiding and found its way into a jet.  Give them all a good blow through and see where that leaves you.

 

Charging issue my gut feeling is going to be gunk in the voltage regulator, assuming that side of stuff is the same as any alternator/dynamo setup from the same era.  I see in the last video on YouTube that it was gradually needing more and more revs to put the no charge light out.  If you can get into the regulator, give the contacts a clean and see what happens.  Could be worth giving it a tap when the engine is running to see if that has any effect.

[dollywobbler]

I got into the voltage regulator yesterday, and confirmed that the contacts do move. I didn't clean them up, but can give that a go I guess.

[Zelandeth]

Just a bit of emery cloth should do it.  Doesn't take much oxidisation to render it an open circuit at only 12V.

 

Failing that it must be something more "interesting" and I suspect I'd need more info on how things are wired up to do much else.  I'm guessing a fair bit with not having seen a Dynastart before already.

[PhilA]

Very possible the regulator points had a very small area touching all the years being stood up, that being the only part not corroded; now it's been run it's probably arced over and stopped working.

 

Clean it all up (I recall the Lucas manual saying not to use emery because it can have metallic stuff in; they recommended glass paper to clean the points with, from memory) and it should start working again. The way the light glows suggests only half the circuit is correctly operational.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

Really daft thought on the running issue: not knowing what was apart when she didn't want to start - the dizzy cap hasn't been off and wound up 180 degrees out has it?

 

Only suggest it because it's the sort of stupid mistake I'd make - and then take half the car apart hunting for a non-existent fault that I've caused.

[dollywobbler]

Nope. Dizzy cap is spot on. Floats haven't been touched before yesterday. It already ran like a sack of crap before that.

[dollywobbler]

Have a video about the lights. I'm off to the garage to see if I can get it to run again.

[dollywobbler]

Day two of WHY WON'T YOU RUN PROPERLY?!

 

Put the ignition system back together, having failed to free the dizzy. Cleared the fuel out of the carb again, removed a small amount of muck and found another jet which got blown through. Did the other jets while I was at it again. 

 

No difference. Eventually got her to run, but as soon as I open the throttle, there's a ton of backfiring through the carb. With the fuel system looking increasingly exonerated, my next thought is to try another condenser. It has a brand new one fitted, but that means nowt these days.

[SiC]

With the fuel system looking increasingly exonerated, my next thought is to try another condenser. It has a brand new one fitted, but that means nowt these days.

Yes. As I found out! Bloody crappy, badly made condensers. Is there a Distributor Doctor condenser available for your distributor?

[mrcitroen]

Quality of some new ignition parts now is nothing short of utter crap. I remember fitting a new condenser to my GS for it to fail within 5 mins! Old one refitted and ran ok for over a year until I fitted electronic ignition.

 

The blank badge on your vid, I remember some of them saying Thundersley Invacar. A different manufacturer of same design?

 

Keep up the good work. Enjoying this thread immensely

[richardthestag]

shit quality points, condensors and rotor arms finally pushed me over the electronic ignition edge.

 

First up Piranha P8 - was Newtronic for those old farts out there like me old enough to remember them or even care

 

Well that went well, the optic advanced on a fixed baseplate and after 18 years it got sticky. parts for this system are unobtainium so I went for a cheapo Powerspark wcpgw

 

within about 500miles it left me utterly stranded when the solid state technology failed. Arse!, it was replaced by a moor quaylitee* Pertronix system which seems to have given me more powers and smoothness.

 

Still have the SPOF** though with the solid state ignition system, so I have a car sweetie tin with original baseplate (fitted with twin points, condensor) and a feeler gauge installed in my glovebox.

 

 

I then found out about distributor doctor... doh

 

Your answer I am reasonably sure will be to free up the distributor. alloy and alloy and water and many many years is going to make that one fun and to maybe stop buying cheapo bits of ebay, you may strike it lucky but more likely you will be beating your head against the garage wall. bitter experience of this over a number of years

 

 

 

 

 

*Lot more expensiveshire

 

**single point of failure

[dollywobbler]

The blank badge on your vid, I remember some of them saying Thundersley Invacar. A different manufacturer of same design?

 

Keep up the good work. Enjoying this thread immensely

 

No, that's exactly what it says, just very, very faintly. Thundersley is just where they were built. Invacar is the name.

 

Anyway, changed to an old condenser, but much the same. Perhaps a little bit cleaner. But still, you have to be very cagey with the throttle. Give it too much and it just backfires and dies. Let the revs rise and there comes a point (at about 4000rpm at a guess) where it just tails off and won't rev no more cap'n. This suggests fuelling. It was running well enough off the can, and the filter doesn't look clogged. Pump perhaps? Or is there something in the carb I've still missed?

[dozeydustman]

I hope it doesn't get to the point a whole rewire is the order of the day.

Electrics on my old Scimitar were a nightmare....

[stonedagain]

Try it on the can again.