Vans oh dear what have they done

[Junkman]

  On 01/05/2015 at 14:24, flat4alfa said:

Don't forget D3.

 

 

That was actually a captive acquisition. It started life as a Chenard & Walcker and was a wartime design.

It was launched soon after the liberation in 1946 as the Chenard & Walcker CPV, with a two cylinder two-stroke engine and a flat nose:

 

 

This was deemed a tad sluggish even back then, so they started to use the 1,130 cc four cylinder four-stroke from the Peugeot 202.

In order to accomodate it, they grafted on the protruding nez de cochon. Purchasing these engines left the finacially stricken company

as a major debtor to Peugeot, thus Peugeot’s acquisition of the business was inevitable and led to the rebranding of the vehicle as a

Peugeot after the 1950 takeover, at the same time they started to install the 1,290cc engine from the then new Peugeot 203.

The van remained in production with various updates until 1965 (!) by which time it was decidedly dated.

[Mr Lobster]

We've got a new Peugeot Boxer on hire at the moment and whilst it's no looker it's pretty nice to drive. I'd be more than happy running it full time.

[Junkman]

Yeah, contrary to cars, I think vans and lorries actually did get better.

[twosmoke300]

All modern vans are designed to do big miles in 3 years then they are buggered. Loads of wiring problems with the sevel vans and transits are coming to light now . They are better to drive but as an owner driver they can be a minefield

[flat4alfa]

 

[dollywobbler]

  On 01/05/2015 at 20:46, twosmoke300 said:

All modern vans are designed to do big miles in 3 years then they are buggered. Loads of wiring problems with the sevel vans and transits are coming to light now . They are better to drive but as an owner driver they can be a minefield

 

Aye. That's becoming an issue for us with minibuses, which don't do big miles. Our Pug Boxer has required two heater resistors, a clutch and an alternator all within about 40k miles. In fact, we've replaced the entire heater motor now to try and stop the resistors from blowing. The interior plastics are horrific, as are the blind spots. They are quite jolly to drive though. Our ten-year old Sprinter is pretty rotten and the back axle has gone at 90k miles. Our ten-year old LT is pretty rotten and drives about as well as a 60-year old Massey Ferguson. Our five-year old Crafters are wonderful to drive, but are breaking out in rust now. 

[mat_the_cat]

I'd agree with the comments about performance improving massively nowadays, but reckon that in terms of solidarity my LT feels better than the Mk2 version, although I've only driven a couple of those briefly, and maybe they were knackered. Sadly an equal tendency to rust though - mine was pretty flaky after 12 years:

 

 

Oh, and I actually quite like the new Transit

[Vin]

  On 01/05/2015 at 22:45, mat_the_cat said:

Oh, and I actually quite like the new Transit

 

It seems the Americans do too...And it seems they're managing to circumvent the 'Chicken tax' to their advantage...

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/04/chart-day-rise-commercial-van-sales-america-2015-q1/#more-1046402

 

 

"....Commercial van sales are on the rise in the United States. But of greater interest than the improvements – total sales jumped 14% to 356,814 units in 2014 and are up 26% to 87,866 year-to-date – is the constant change in the category.

The best-selling commercial van in America in each of the last five months was the Ford Transit, a Euro-style van that’s replacing the Ford E-Series. Together, the Transit and similar-looking products from Mercedes-Benz (the established Sprinter) and Ram (the Fiat Ducato-based ProMaster), account for 39% of the commercial van market so far this year and 50.4% of the full-size category.

The small van sector, meanwhile, is growing rapidly. Sales are up 76% in early 2015. The quintet, led by the Ford Transit Connect and joined most recently by the Ram ProMaster City, generated 23% market share in 2015’s first-quarter, up from 17% a year ago. Click the chart for a larger view. Specific figures in the column are explained by the descriptions below with, for example, the Transit generating 22,881 first-quarter sales, the Sprinter 5,559, and the ProMaster 5,549...."

[stuboy]

banana engined mk5 smiley were what dreams are made of..

[AnthonyG]

Mercedes vans seem no more rust resistant (i.e. not very) than any others now, I remember the 1980s ones lasting a lot better. But I guess they were quite a lot more expensive than the competition back then.

 

The one van I like is the Vivaro. Ok styling (although not sure about the new one), they don't seem to rust and are popular with owner drivers so must be OK reliability wise. A lot better built than a Transit as well.

 

A friend has just got himself a very clean 12 plate Sportive with only 25k on the clock and a very smart vehicle it is too. One previous owner (a self employed carpenter) who obviously looked after it.

 

Must remember next time I see it to look at the cab roof to work why they have that funny bump.

[danthecapriman]

I've found the Sprinters to be a bit flimsy really. We used to use Transits and they could take a fair bit of abuse and wear and tear well, and they were much better for towing.

The Sprinters seem to try to fall apart very easily and they are a bit gutless, especially when towing. The paint is incredibly thin too, it scratches through to metal very easily which won't help rust issues. Having said that, I'm sure the way they are treated has a lot to do with it. I tend to look after mine (although I don't own it) and don't beast it up and down curbs etc etc. My 60 reg one has no rust at all and hasn't really got any other defects either. All the ones that were delivered with it are now pretty well worn. Interiors filthy and worn out, rust bubbling through, dents and scratches, they seem to be constantly in the garage for repairs.

They seem ideally suited as delivery vans, but ours are used by a utility company and get a lot more harsh use, on and off road so that won't help their condition either. The Transits seemed to shrug off that sort of use though.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

  On 02/05/2015 at 07:27, AnthonyG said:

Mercedes vans seem no more rust resistant (i.e. not very) than any others now, I remember the 1980s ones lasting a lot better. But I guess they were quite a lot more expensive than the competition back then.

The one van I like is the Vivaro. Ok styling (although not sure about the new one), they don't seem to rust and are popular with owner drivers so must be OK reliability wise. A lot better built than a Transit as well.

A friend has just got himself a very clean 12 plate Sportive with only 25k on the clock and a very smart vehicle it is too. One previous owner (a self employed carpenter) who obviously looked after it.

Must remember next time I see it to look at the cab roof to work why they have that funny bump.

My neighbour is a builder and he used to have the older shape Vivaro (06 plate I think, but they continued the same overall design until pretty recently I think). He always said his drove like a car - it handled well, pulled hard and he reckoned you could easily sit at 90 on the private road from Cornwall to Londinium and you really couldn't tell it was going that speed. Unlike the current offerings, it looked ok as well. It all went tits when he started having injector and then head problems. After sinking a couple of grand into it, it was still sounding like it was about to die a death, so he got shot, much to his disappointment. I get the impression that they are prone to a whole host of engine woes.

Ironically, he replaced it with a clean 06 plate Tranny, which he 'downgraded' to as his pervnet research and chats down the pub suggested the Transit mechanicals were still fairly basic and ultimately more reliable, with less to go wrong.

Poor chap was wounded after 15 months of ownership (and when his 12 month warranty had obviously ended) the diesel pump gave up, and he was faced with a bill around £1500 iirc for its replacement, along with timing chain while they were at it.

His only issue with it now is that the arse end is slowly starting to fall off, due to the ginger canker. Who'd buy a van?!

[danthecapriman]

Wasn't the problem with the Vivaro series vans with water dripping down from the bottom of the windscreen onto the engine causing some sort of trouble? The company I work for tried some of them but they never bought anymore after that batch. They carried on getting swb Transits instead, and now Fiats!

[Lacquer Peel]

Bring back the Nissan Vanette.

[New POD]

I assume that most vans are bought or leased by Fleet Owners who are only interested in one thing (other than the load carrying capacity) and that's cost per mile. No business really cares what the van looks like, as long as it will get to it's destination, using the min of fuel and have max reliability.

[Asimo]

^^^^ "No business really cares what the van looks like" 

 

I agree, so why are van-makers spending a fortune styling their product to look like trainers or Transformer toys?

 

Vans do speak for the business though, I have been half-heartedly looking for a builder recently and am a bit wary of anyone who turns up to quote in a shiny VW Transporter with massive alloy wheels. However, when I saw a 30 odd year old Sherpa pickup, properly sign-written and driven by a bloke with a tie, a neat moustache and a Jack Russell, I thought I was in. Sadly, he's based too far away to look at the job.

[catsinthewelder]

AFAIK  early Vivaros/Traffics shared the engine and box with the Laguna 2 with predictable results.  Later mk1's have something better which is good to know as the work one nears 60k (new gearbox time on the early ones).  We've got a new one too which looks better,  has a nicer cab and is ace on fuel but might struggle on our local hills with it's little 1.6.

 

Three of our Citroen Relays have just been in for recall work to replace their oil pumps but otherwise rack up the miles without complaint,  they are ugly things but are tougher than they look.  Worringly our local garage doesn't know how to switch off the service lights on them,  5 minutes on the internet and I figured it out

[Coprolalia]

  On 02/05/2015 at 15:42, Sorn Me said:

Vans do speak for the business though, I have been half-heartedly looking for a builder recently and am a bit wary of anyone who turns up to quote in a shiny VW Transporter with massive alloy wheels. However, when I saw a 30 odd year old Sherpa pickup, properly sign-written and driven by a bloke with a tie, a neat moustache and a Jack Russell, I thought I was in. Sadly, he's based too far away to look at the job.

 

My old man's a building contractor. Drives an 04 plate 3L Td Toyota Hiace, properly signwritten, has a full beard and ponytail, universally wears ale company t-shirts full of holes and has a cab full of terriers. What does this say I wonder?

[Negative Creep]

  On 02/05/2015 at 15:42, Sorn Me said:

^^^^ "No business really cares what the van looks like" 

 

I agree, so why are van-makers spending a fortune styling their product to look like trainers or Transformer toys?

 

 

Most of it would be pedestrian impact rules wouldn't it? They've done a fine job of killing interesting vehicle design

[Joey spud]

We have the Renault breakdown contract so are obliged to run their vans in the breakdown fleet.

 

The trouble is they are 1.6dci bi turbo efforts and they have 300kg less capacity than the vw T5 and are crap at towing and cant tow as much weight. (and the T5 isn't great either).

 

There seems to be a fixation in fitting smaller engines with more turbos and higher boost than a sensible less stressed engine.

 

It will end in tears...

[CHRIS1980]

The problem with van styling...is that they try to style them. All vans should look like the original VW LT. A big square box,nothing more nothing less.

[Noel Tidybeard]

rac man told me he dislikes his vagshite compared to transhite cos when he can haz towing he gets OMGWHEELSPIN

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The more I see the new Transit, the more it grows on me. Being an Old Fkr I well recall the HooHaa surrounding the Mark 3* when it arrived in 1986 but as more appeared, nobody gave a shit. Whilst it's a pity it's no longer built in Britain, I'd put money in the new Transit not turning into a rotten, festering teabag in 5 years. They're outselling every other van 2-1 and are absolutely everywhere up here.

 

 

 

 

*What the Rigger Booted sorts inexplicably called 'The Snoopy Nose'. Nope - me neither.

[Hendry]

Ford have fucked up how Transits like the Custom and new Transit drive, the old style ones up to 63 plate are much better to drive than the newest style ones, they feel too bulky, big massive dashboards etc. This was the last modern van to drive OK, now there's none, probably because it is now a 15year old van probably designed late 90s.

 

I think the problem is they've tried to make them too refined and car like and instead they've actually done the opposite.

 

The Fiat Ducato single car transporters my work have are fucked, 12 plate with just approaching 100k but feel so loose and worn like theyve done triple that. You can't turn the radio off because there's so much rattling and banging and clunking from the interior trim that it drives you mental because you can't hear a thing because of it, its that loud, the driving position is awful and the seat so uncomfortable you end up with back and knee pain after driving the fucker for a couple of hours.

[cms206]

I don't like vans with dash mounted gear levers, it's right up there with electronic handbrakes in the cms big book of fuck right off.

 

My old works van was the now sadly scrapped 180k mile R-reg banana powered LDV Convoy which went everywhere at 90mph in a cloud of black clag, rust and abject terror. I'd have it back over a new PSA-Fiat Eurovan thing.

 

My new works runabout is the gaffer's old 250k mile kettle powered Rover 416 tourer which is a shite van too.

[Jerzy Woking]

My old VW T4 non turbo diesel. Only "gizmo" was power steering. It was 19 years old before it had to have it's first bit of welding-a small patch on the inner sill. Otherwise the underneath was solid as could be. I only sold it because of the sodding London LEZ, as it was £100 a day to drive it inside the LEZ

 

 

Looked OK to me, quite like the simple lines.

 

I now have a T5 which is much bigger than the T4, so I can get three motorbikes in the back, not just 2. It's OK to drive, though economy is a joke. And when one of the ECU's went (apparently because the RAC jumpstarted it) it cost around £800 to replace.

 

 

Haz 2 haz big wheels tho innit.

[2MB]

Always thought I preferred the styling of t5 vans to t4s, til I saw your old and current ones!

[Jerzy Woking]

  On 03/05/2015 at 21:05, 2MB said:

Always thought I preferred the styling of t5 vans to t4s, til I saw your old and current ones!

I do to. But needs must, and I don't like transits or sprinters (the ones at work are the same age as my T5, have lower mileage but are obviously rusting quite badly. Plus the VW's really hold their value compared to other vans. Maybe it would look better with a pineapple on it?

[gordonbennet]

Never been able to work out why Toyota Hiace is such a slow seller here, very conservative Toyota when it comes to their commercials (incl Hino heavy truck division), if it aint broke don't fix it kinda thing which for business use has to be a good thing, fitted with the small Hilux 2.5 engine last time i looked which is bombproof.

 

It never looked handsome but compared to the latest offerings (VWt5 excepted which still look right) from the rest it's at least inoffensive and doesn't rust before your eyes.

[MarvinsMom]

i've seen a few of these running about oth as proper vans and also as some mpv-minivan thing.

 

dunno what they are like, probably typical jap-korean dull but worthy sort of thing that will run and run and run uncomplainingly pluis i like the unpretentious styling.it is a big boxy thing and doesnt pretend to do anything else.