Six Cylinders Motoring Notes

[Noel Tidybeard]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Back to plan "A" pull friends along the track!

this looks well dodgy and something an MP would pay £££££ for! 🤣

[chaseracer]

3 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

Please bring a large piece of carboard to make the missing front wing!

As a template, or the finished article? 😁

[Crackers]

4 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Not to give anyone ideas, obvs. but here is an ex Invacar Villers engine mounted on a 7.25" bogie......

Note the brake gear at the front, very necessary as you may well be stopping a ton of train and people.   Be very careful, even with a hand push trolley.

Thread drift time!

 

This is a very interesting bit of kit. Do you have any further info on it? A friend of mine has a private 7.25" miniature railway, on which we run an assortment of engines, one of which is a Villiers 9E powered, chain driven 0-4-4 loco which has a very crude arrangement of brake gear and an identical black box of wiring on the front. If you were to take the bodywork* off and chop the rear axle bogie off, the arrangement would be fairly similar to your pic, albeit some parts are at the opposite end.

I wonder if there was an individual/company converting these drivetrains into various railway prime movers, or if it's just by pure chance that you've found a photo similar to what I've seen?

[LightBulbFun]

20 minutes ago, Crackers said:

one of which is a Villiers 9E powered, chain driven 0-4-4 loco which has a very crude arrangement of brake gear and an identical black box of wiring on the front.

if its any help, that black box will contain all the gubbins for the Dynastart unit, which is what starts the engine in both foward and reverse directions as well as charges the battery/provide electricity once said engine is running  

so I imagine that will be one of those common things you will see on all Villiers powered Locos regardless of design/who made them

 

im curious is the engine really a Villiers 9E? the 11E was a much more common engine on account of it being in use for much longer, but they are very similar looking from the outside so I am just curious which it actually is

(the 9E was used in ministry invalid carriages from 1957 to 1962 however, and was also used in some Microcars as well, so it could still well be a 9E!, with the Villiers 11E being used from 1962 to 1971)

the Villiers 11E was a variant of the 9E made specifically for the invalid carriage market, and with just how many Villiers powered Invalid carriages there where and where being scrapped in the 1960s-1980's is why most Villiers powered thingies you find today, Go Carts bikes, Miniature train locos and other home built old petrol powered things tended to be Villiers 11E powered

[Mr Pastry]

38 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Thread drift time!

 

This is a very interesting bit of kit. Do you have any further info on it? A friend of mine has a private 7.25" miniature railway, on which we run an assortment of engines, one of which is a Villiers 9E powered, chain driven 0-4-4 loco which has a very crude arrangement of brake gear and an identical black box of wiring on the front. If you were to take the bodywork* off and chop the rear axle bogie off, the arrangement would be fairly similar to your pic, albeit some parts are at the opposite end.

I wonder if there was an individual/company converting these drivetrains into various railway prime movers, or if it's just by pure chance that you've found a photo similar to what I've seen?

This is the power bogie used in a series of locos built by Cromar White Ltd in Wimbledon 1967-77.  This is not the same company as the current C.W.  They had a steel underframe with a marine ply body styled on the WR Hymek.  It is possible that you have the remains of one of these.  I had a slight connection with the firm through a friend, and I believe that their designer built some similar one-offs, but it could well be an amateur copy as the Villers engines were widely available at the time.   I don't know of anyone else doing the same thing commercially.

Edit - if you have a photo, PM it if you like, I might be able to ID it.

 

[Dobloseven]

Hopefully be down tomorrow as soon after 10 as I can. As a FoD virgin, are there any tools I can bring along to help? Socket set? Jack? Impact wrench? Also got a 2.2kw inverter generator. 

[Crackers]

51 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Villiers 9E? the 11E

Not a clue mate. I've not seen it in ages but my memory says 9E. It's got a 4(?) speed manual box not a CVT. 

[Crackers]

Thanks @Mr Pastry - interesting.

Here's the only photo I could find, with all the body panels off, part way through disassembly. The shape of the loco is obviously a very crudely cobbled-together affair, we measured it up and not a single part was straight compared to any others.

I did find a hand-painted date on one part of the body when I disassembled it, I can't remember what year it was but 1975 rings a bell. That would probably have been the rough time it took its current shape. 

[Mr Pastry]

4 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Thanks @Mr Pastry - interesting.

Here's the only photo I could find, with all the body panels off, part way through disassembly. The shape of the loco is obviously a very crudely cobbled-together affair, we measured it up and not a single part was straight compared to any others.

I did find a hand-painted date on one part of the body when I disassembled it, I can't remember what year it was but 1975 rings a bell. That would probably have been the rough time it took its current shape. 

I thought it might be!   That is quite a historic machine in its own way.  I wondered if it was still around.  PM on its way.   This place.....

[High Jetter]

I hope we're going to get more about it than that..

[Mrs6C]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Cromar White Ltd in Wimbledon 1967-77

Did they make my track panels as well? It's multi-gauge of late 1970s vintage, with 3.5", 5" and 7.25 gauges with steel bar rails and steel tie bars for bolting down to sleepers or concrete, typically used in older Model Engineering Society layouts around the country. Mine is the ex Hastings Model Engineers' layout from Alexandra Park, Hastings, which was set out there in around 1980.

[DoctorRetro]

@Six-cylinder, I'll be bringing the AX, so you can see what you missed out on 😁

 

[Mr Pastry]

7 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Did they make my track panels as well? It's multi-gauge of late 1970s vintage, with 3.5", 5" and 7.25 gauges with steel bar rails and steel tie bars for bolting down to sleepers or concrete, typically used in older Model Engineering Society layouts around the country. Mine is the ex Hastings Model Engineers' layout from Alexandra Park, Hastings, which was set out there in around 1980.

AFAIK all their track used aluminium FB profiled rail screwed to wooden sleepers - they were originally a woodwork firm -  and they were so successful at it that people started asking for locos and rolling stock for garden and park railways.   Quite pioneering stuff in its way.  You can find their ads in Model Engineer magazines of the time.

[Six-cylinder]

17 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

@Six-cylinder, I'll be bringing the AX, so you can see what you missed out on 😁

 

I had my AX out last weekend, but it is back in storage now.

[Crackers]

31 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I hope we're going to get more about it than that..

@Mr Pastry has just set me up with some really fascinating info on the history of this machine. Bloody strange this world, I never thought I'd learn anything on "No. 2"'s history, yet of all the places that information could be hiding, it turns up thanks to Autoshite? Yeah man, that's odd!

Short answer is, thanks to Mr Pastry, that it started life as an 0-4-0 Steam Outline loco built by Cromar White powered by the Villiers drivetrain (which was probably an industrial power unit rather than ex-car) in my photo. This setup wasn't successful so, when CW moved onto the Hymek outline locos driven by the power bogie in Mr Pastry's pic, CW's designer took the loco on and rebuilt it as the 0-4-4 chassis shown in mine. 

 

When I got hold of it, the remains of the bodywork were absolutely knackered, plus I have always had adhesion and stability issues with "No. 2", so I am going to rebuild it in a similar diesel shunter outline, but with a lot of added weight to improve balance and grip over the 4 driving wheels.

[Mrs6C]

3 minutes ago, Crackers said:

it turns up thanks to Autoshite?

This place...

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

Hopefully be down tomorrow as soon after 10 as I can. As a FoD virgin, are there any tools I can bring along to help? Socket set? Jack? Impact wrench? Also got a 2.2kw inverter generator. 

You best be there on Sunday as I want to see than R25!

[richardmorris]

Remind me @Six-cylinderand @Mrs6CWhat the best practice is for nibbles. Am going shopping first thing and can collect sweet goodies from waitrose unless things to share are a bad idea? Perhaps individual wrapped Madeleine?

sorry, haven’t been to a gathering of anyone other than family for 18months now and feeling a little stunned.

[Dobloseven]

20 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

You best be there on Sunday as I want to see than R25!

Sorry, just going on Saturday. Pity, would like to meet as many ASers as possible. 

[Six-cylinder]

Just now, richardmorris said:

Remind me @Six-cylinderand @Mrs6CWhat the best practice is for nibbles. Am going shopping first thing and can collect sweet goodies from waitrose unless things to share are a bad idea? Perhaps individual wrapped Madeleine?

sorry, haven’t been to a gathering of anyone other than family for 18months now and feeling a little stunned.

The plan is everybody is self sufficient.

Although we have got back to offering a small selection of crisps, biscuits and even an odd pasty.

[richardmorris]

Just now, Six-cylinder said:

The plan is everybody is self sufficient.

Although we have got back to offering a small selection of crisps, biscuits and even an odd pasty.

Acknowledged 

[St.Jude]

5 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Sorry, just going on Saturday. Pity, would like to meet as many ASers as possible. 

Booooo!

[Six-cylinder]

15 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

The plan is everybody is self sufficient.

Although we have got back to offering a small selection of crisps, biscuits and even an odd pasty.

I should add we have a camping stove, water, milk, tea and coffee but I think it would be a good idea if people bought there own mugs.

[Mrs6C]

24 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Am going shopping first thing and can collect sweet goodies from waitrose

If you'd like to bring some sweet treats for collective consumption then please do. My vote would be for chocolate mini-rolls and Rocky Road bites!!!

The can be picked out one at a time with WD-40 covered fingers...

We do have biscuits, crisps, a few pasties and nibbles etc. as well, also tea and coffee and cider. Bring whatever you would like for your lunch. Supper will be fish & chips / kebab / pizza or whatever else gets collected on the fish & chip shop run.

It will be good to see you. has it really been 18 months? Wow!

 

[wuvvum]

Just been looking at 7.25" stuff on eBay.  It's not exactly cheap is it?  

[richardmorris]

Will see what sunningdale waitrose has to offer!

[Crackers]

1 minute ago, richardmorris said:

Will see what sunningdale waitrose has to offer!

Bagshot is better! 

[richardmorris]

8 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Bagshot is better! 

But I haven’t been there since March last year despite being in walking distance. I refused to queue round the car park. (And I have a regular hello with the usual lady on the self -checkouts Saturday ). She’s nice and likes the 2cv ).

[beko1987]

I don't kmow what my plan is really... 

Charlie's not been too well but is a bit better now, and now mum isn't very well but might be OK tomorrow... 

I've been out all night and just got in so I'm 0 prepared... Was meant to go shopping on the way home but it got far too late and I drove a few people back so just came home. I've got a sofa to move tomorrow too if things carry on as per the original plan (sofa is at mums in Winslow) ... 

I'll know what I'm doing when it's time to do something I think, 

[richardmorris]

Obviously I am now planning on coming up in the morning, will bring the tool kits and crimp set if I remember. Will need to leave late afternoon though to get to oxford for dinner. Anyone going to be there who needs two 2cv wheels and Toyo tyres or a slightly broken x1/9 exhaust?