The big diesel con

[sierraman]

A lot of folks I know whine on about getting 35mpg in petrol so go off in a panic buying some clapped out common rail diesel. I'm sure I'd be right in thinking that if they did 10k pa they would be at a loss as soon as the inevitable injector/dmf/pump/dpf went bang?

[phil_lihp]

Yes I did, and yes I was.  Lesson learnt.

[Cavcraft]

Unless you got a diesel that didnt have a DMF

[overrun]

Unless you got a diesel that didnt have a DMF

 

Or a one with an understanding.

 

It's rattles don't bother me, so I don't bother it. WCPGW

 

There is a lot of bullshit surrounding running an out of warranty common rail diesel, People are scared for no reason a lot of the time.

Fine. Mo bargainz fo me - and anyone else who is happy enough to have a pretty modern motor but may need to get their hands dirty.

 

£400 will change the DMF/clutch/slave and starter, if you do it yourself. That's a price I don't mind paying, as, cherry and chip fat aside, I prefer to have a civilized version of an oil burner as my main motor.

[Spiny Norman]

I think the media to some extent forces people to obsess about the OMGMPG issue when it comes to cars, which unless you do a big mileage is wrong.

If you're Johnny public and buy a new or new-ish car every few years and do 7-8k miles, it's the crippling depreciation and main stealer servicing that'll rape your wallet, not the difference between 35 and 45mpg. The servicing and replacement costs you hear about on the average 5-7 year old tractor-engined family saloon makes my eyes bleed. No wonder there are so many in breakers yards if the £2000 worth of Vectra/Passat/Laguna etc might be needing that again spending on it to make it go again.

 

Personally I can't do Diesels. I don't do enough miles to make one financially viable, I hate the noise they make and I hate the way they drive, especially the new ones, though from a shiter's perspective I could probably put up with an XUD if it was in a nice BX or 205.
 

[wuvvum]

I recently bought a cheap common rail diesel.  It didn't end well.

[cort16]

What was the outcome with that wuvuum was it seized?

[Rusty_Rocket]

I actually think diesels have had their day.  Certainly moderns after the age of 10yo.

They have become a victim of their own popularity; more people bought them in the 90s and this forced manufacturers to produce petrol-engine levels of power and refinement.

This was never the point of the diesel option!  The point was less fuel consumption due to the inherent superior efficiency of the compression-ignition engine over the spark-ignition engine.  Diesel engines used to be very rugged and infinitely durable.  They are now fragile, temperamental and (much) more expensive to repair than petrol engines.

RIP DERV..

[barefoot]

...

Personally I can't do Diesels. I don't do enough miles to make one financially viable, I hate the noise they make and I hate the way they drive, especially the new ones....

 

Well said Sir, I have yet to drive a diesel i could even think about buying,

And by God,

I've been pissed when I've driven some of them.

 

Dodgems on seven pints, corner/handle well though.

[CortinaDave]

I've knocked up 8k since august in my Common Rail MG ZT. It's giving me 40mpg mixed and 45mpg at weekends when I make the. 200 mile round trip to see my girlfriend.

 

Its got two half arsed looking stamps in the service book for its 140k on the clock

Worth it? Yes. I've had no issues with the car and if the DMF goes I'm happy to wear the. £400 given the reliability up til now .

My last car was a 2.0 petrol Saab with FSH  and 90 odd k on the clock when I bought it - that cost twice as much to buy,averaged 28 mpg day to day and slightly over 30 on a run. In 12k miles it needed an engine (sludge) a cat, clutch,balljoints and more.

 

It was a right bastard of a thing.

It's just your luck. No more, no less.

[cort16]

Those zt 75 diesel are a right bargain. They've been tarred with the k series brush so even the diesels are cheap. The interiors are cracking as well

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Any £400 Xxsara HDi that's made it this far is probably going to chug on for a good few more years yet.

[Station]

My dad has a Mondeo mk3 diesel. He has gone through three batteries in a year starting it. It sounds terrible. Has has to keep a spare battery on charge, and two battery boosters in the boot. It also has that horrible rumbly lock to lock steering issue where it makes clanging noises reminiscent of a haunted house (but that's another story).

 

I heard you can change the flywheel from a DMF to a mk2 diesel solid one. Is this true? I don't mind doing the job, even though every bolt will be a torx headed type, and there will be enough space in there to use my atomic sized tool kit, if it gets rid of the cement mixer start when he needs to take the old queen to the shop. Or whatever a new DMF costs - I hear solid flywheels can crack the crankshaft (possibly bollocks).

It's done over 200k miles, and it's still in one piece, so can only really fault the DMF and the amount of front springs it has devoured.

[chaseracer]

Any £400 Xxsara HDi that's made it this far is probably going to chug on for a good few more years yet.

Yup. 53-plate Blingo HDi: had it just over seven years and it's on 102000 miles now, 94k of which are down to my leaden right foot, and it still gives 45-50mpg.

 

Keeper.

 

[overrun]

My dad has a Mondeo mk3 diesel. He has gone through three batteries in a year starting it. It sounds terrible. Has has to keep a spare battery on charge, and two battery boosters in the boot. It also has that horrible rumbly lock to lock steering issue where it makes clanging noises reminiscent of a haunted house (but that's another story).

 

I heard you can change the flywheel from a DMF to a mk2 diesel solid one. Is this true? I don't mind doing the job, even though every bolt will be a torx headed type, and there will be enough space in there to use my atomic sized tool kit, if it gets rid of the cement mixer start when he needs to take the old queen to the shop. Or whatever a new DMF costs - I hear solid flywheels can crack the crankshaft (possibly bollocks).

It's done over 200k miles, and it's still in one piece, so can only really fault the DMF and the amount of front springs it has devoured.

 

Mine is about 9.5 years old and I had to replace the original battery about a year ago. The starter sounds a bit weird when cranking, probs swarf from the DMF, but it always fires up.

 

My mate has also has one, the same exact car, except his is the estate. He had the DMF etc replaced and then hydrolocked the engine, so replaced that as well. Now <10K later it needs a new starter again. The clocks are failing, one of the heated seat elements has given up and other minor stuff. He also has the notchy steering (no crazy noises, though). He greased the UJ on the end of the column and reckons that has sorted it. Worth a go?

 

Some say you can fit a solid flywheel, some say it huffs the crank, as you say. Personally, I am just gonna fit another DMF.

It should outlast his car - especially at 200K miles.

 

Not so long ago, an ebay seller was knocking out the LUK kits, complete with starter (these are shit though. Stick with OE) for £319.

 

Does your dads knock its tits off, with the clutch disengaged, or mainly just when taking up the bite?

The starter will be full of DMF swarf, hence the trouble.

 

My mates DMF sounded horrendous before he replaced it, but the main reason was that the starter gear would only engage 2/10 times, in the end.

[Pillock]

I've got a DMFed TDCi Focus. It's averaging 52mpg over 40000 miles so has probably saved enough money to pay for stuff. Sadly though I was given a fuel card not long after buying it so it's saving me fuck all, and my employers a fortune.

[CortinaDave]

ZT diesel is genuinely brilliant Cort. Best car I've owned in a long time. There's a guy in airdrie selling his ZT-T CDTi for around the grand mark and it's a stunner. Enthusiast owned with every toy including the telly in the dash.

They are a steal at the minute.

[Junkman]

Diesels stink and cause cancer.

[Lord Sterling]

I've driven a fair few Diesels and I have to say they weren't that bad. The Turbo Diesels were quite fun to drive with great pick up, but I've never owned one. I was however borrowed this for a few days:

 

Rover 45 Connoisseur Turbo Diesel.

 

I loved this car immensely. Starting it up from cold made it sound like it was going to cut out, the car shook a little when it was turning over and it did sound a slight bit rough at first but it was great to drive, in 3rd gear it didn't half shift. Of course these are observations coming from a bloke who has only ever owned owned 2.0 + petrol engined cars.

 

Newer Diesels like (05+) Firds/VWs etc... for example are more refined, they are almost as refined and responsive as petrol cars and I mustard mitt, I do like the way they drive.

[stuboy]

drove my mates 75 drizzler monday and was ace cruiser

[Des]

My dad has a Mondeo mk3 diesel. He has gone through three batteries in a year starting it. It sounds terrible. Has has to keep a spare battery on charge, and two battery boosters in the boot.

And here's me considering launching a starter handle retrofit business concern.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Diesels have their place,anyone who's ever driven a Luton Transit with a V4 or pinto and seen 15 mpg (driven carefully) or forded a river in a V8 Range Rover wouldn't want to go back.

But in cars? I do between 80 and a 100,000 miles a year and I'm considering a petrol as my next work car, I'm a bit weird in that mpg isn't that important to me, if it was I'd be rattling around in a 2.0 VAGina piece of shit or worse a 2.2 Merc,I've got friends who regularly get 60mpg from these things. But I'd hate the Massey Ferguson noise and smoke and would turn jobs down meaning I'd make less money.

As for dmf, a few of years ago I had to replace the clutch in my e39 530d( it had done 200k) and the flywheel was perfectly ok, that was my last manual dizzler so have no more experience of them.

As long as you drive them in a McRae - If in doubt,flat out- manner those dpf things are harmless.

[Mr Lobster]

Hmmmm, our diesel Kangoo was great. When it worked. Although tbf it only went wrong when it reached 110k so it perhaps wasn't that bad.

 

I think for reliability then a decent capacity, normally aspirated petrol engine is probably best. Hence why Mrs L has a Mazda 5 2.0  that manages about 28mpg most of the time. Its thirsty but then its reliable. That said, if I'd bought a diesel would the fuel savings have been enough to cover a few extra mechanical issues? Who knows...

 

Anyway, I'm with Pete M on this, I don't particularly like diesels and would much rather have a petrol engine anyway. To contradict myself slightly though, I was starting to think about replacing my Toledo in the next year or two and I do quite fancy a Dacia. Trouble is its either a 1.5 dci or tiny capacity 1.2 petrol neither of which really appeal for 100k miles. I wonder if with manufacturers now producing tiny petrol engines capable of producing a reasonable amount of power and reasonable economy, we'll end up with a situation where petrol engines become as complex and fragile as diesels?

[Micrashed]

Hmm.

Perhaps its because Im deaf that the noise in a car doesnt really trouble me (picked up new hearing aids on Weds and cant believe how many squeaks and rattles the Micrashed has)

 

However I have to say the C8 HDi is like driving ones living room. Its quiet, even at speed and supremely comfortable. And in addition it had enough grunt to tow our rather heavy caravan that would need a larger petrol engined car costing exponentially more to tax each year.

 

The C8 has reliability issues in the EGR, but this is a few minutes of a job to whip out and replace or even blank off which is what Ive done now (except at MOT time) and if the timing belt ever does go its likely game over for the engine as the injectors seize into the head. That said Ive replaced the belts, tensioners and pump so with luck it shouldnt need doing now for another 4 years.

 

I wouldnt bother with a small diesel though, Ive had a AX diesel in the past and apart from running it on chip oil it wasnt any better than a petrol car.

 

Sadly though the Gubberment in some small way push the sales of diesels with Joe public by this variated road tax in that low CO emitting cars get lower tax, so diesels are seemed to be the way to go if you want a big family car or something large for towing a horse box / caravan etc as for example, the 2.0T petrol Zafira that could just about tow our van and give 7 seats is taxed at £475 for a 2006 example, but the diesel (OMG DPF) example is taxed at £175.

 

Spool forward to the latest Zafira model and you will find that its not available in a big petrol engine variant capable of towing the weight we do, only in DPF PHAIL Diesel form.

 

I agreed that my circumstances are probably not usual in so much as I need something that tows a large van and carts all my brood about and occasional use as a scout minibus, but looking at manufacturers now, more and more are offering very little in the way of larger engined family cars with the petrol option, probably because they are not as appealing to Joe Public with the year on year dry bum raping road tax that the supposedly "green" tax is levied.

 

Its all bollocks of course. Next family car (which with luck wont be for a few years as the intent is to run the C8 until something unaccountably French happens to the 'lectricks then we will have to downsize engine wise if we want to keep a semi reliable 7 seater.

 

Either that or buy a Series 3 LWB Land Rover

[Jim Bell]

I used to be a bit obsessed with finding another cheap old big MPG diesel.

 

But then the 1.3 Sunny is getting nearly 40mpg anyway.

 

The price of purchasing even something like a nice 405 TD, the tax hike and then the insurance hike are all going to push those perceived savings further away. Even if all goes well.

 

Veg would help, but for the miles I do personally, it'd take years to actually start saving money.

 

 

 

 

 

though I probably will still buy a 405 TD at some point.

[dollywobbler]

I used to be 'diesel all the way' bar my 2CVing exploits, but find myself increasingly turning away from heavy oil. I love the Disco's Tdi engine - forcing myself to ignore the aural satisfaction of the V8 was a good idea as 15mpg really isn't any sort of fun. But that's a big, heavy truck and it feels right to have a low-slogging diesel.

 

I think I've had it with diesel BXs though. The diesel clatter gets annoying, as does the lack of performance. The turbos are quick, but laggy. I'd like to go petrol next. 

 

I must agree about the Rover 75/MG ZT diesel though. They are nice motors and getting 49mpg feels wrong in a car that size. I'd still like to try a V6 though...

[Waderider]

I just had this dilemma.....needed to get the wife a new modern. She likes Volvos, so we were looking at C30's. She does 20 thousand miles a year as we live in a remote area of the Scottish Highlands. I couldn't commit to a diesel because of the servicing costs fear......DPF and elosys fluid (? spl) plus OMG turbo and engine lunching in the 1.6D. Don't believe the manufactures MPG figures. Bought a 1.6 petrol and getting 42mpg on her commute to and from Fort William. Happy.

 

Having said that, I fancy a V70 next, and given the size of that car I'll do the maths again to be sure.

 

Mind you, if you are buying a shiter there are still plenty of pre-overcomplication diesels surely? Or are dpf etc. diesels in autoshite territory? Don't think so.

[Buff McHugelarge]

Any £400 Xxsara HDi that's made it this far is probably going to chug on for a good few more years yet.

 

You can't go far wrong in any slightly shite car thinking along those lines. 

If it's made it this far..?

[Rusty_Rocket]

Injectors seem to be a big issue on a lot of common-rail units.  For some reason, they seem to fail all of a sudden, making starting difficult/ impossible because they start leaking fuel into the cylinder.  In the past few months I've seen three vehicles that apparently needed all four injectors renewed, an MG ZT, a Kia Sedona and a Renault Trafic van.  In all cases, the bill was over £1k from various diesel workshops and not worth it financially on any of the above vehicles   

What really worries me is the fact that in the GOOD OLD DAYYZZ, people like us would simply bosh in used parts from a co-operative scrappy/ breakers but this is impossible in some cases now as they need to be coded to the car and only a brand new (£££) item will do.  

[trigger]

I've been running diesels for a number of years, I don't do big mileages, around 10-15k a year but touch wood I've never had a problem, The Micra 1.5 DCi my wife had did shat it's EGR valve and smoked worse then Dot Cotton but that was covered under warranty, The Mondeo was a sod to start at times as it had a leaky injector and even my current Focus TDCi has the occasional habit of starting then turning it's self off again for some unknown reason.

 

I can't see new diesels being as reliable as they were 10 years ago though, especially with these DPF's fitted and that petrol is much cheaper also.