Lonsdale yd41???

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I wonder how it faired against the Santana and Sierra? 

[Asimo]

Whenever I think of Lonsdale* cars, I think of Dinsdale, of the Pirahna brothers.  

** I have actually seen a Lonsdale. It was a nearly new blue wagon, in Cheltenham, so not far from the importers in Cirencester.

[somewhatfoolish]

"Nice Lonsdale; be a shame if somefing was to 'appen to it."

[Soundwave]

Been thinking about these again the last few days... saw some of the press photographs and realised they were all in the DDF5**Y range. Being a bit depressed and needing something suitably mind-numbing to take my mind off it, I decided to do a bit of sleuthing and manually search all numbers in that range to see what info I could dig up. Was actually quite enjoyable in a tedious sort of way...

...only to open this thread and discover I'm a decade late to the party!  Still, I don't mind... managed to find another A-plate straggler which wasn't on the previous list, plus I've added the one @richbraith mentioned way earlier in the thread. Besides the occasional Fiat or Ford, most of the DDF5**Y registration block was taken up with Lonsdales, Colts and Mitsubishis. Can only assume the importer registered them en masse. My findings are below - I've added notes from the previous list if that's OK with people. And there's quite an interesting anomaly:



My main purpose for finding as many Lonsdale registrations as possible was to see if I could find the reg of the mythical SORNed one which appears on howmanyleft. And lo and behold, there it is! 565, a white 2.0 saloon... that's our unicorn right there. If there are any Lonsdales still extant, it's likely to be that one. Not that knowing the reg is going to be especially helpful for finding it of course, since the DVLA can't give out owner information any more.

What's really interesting is if you look at the previous list from 2013, 565 shows as having a liability date of May 2000. But now it doesn't show a date, only that it's SORNed... so does that mean someone's put it on SORN in the intervening decade? Or is it just another of the DVLA's many data anomalies? If it's the former, it could mean someone is at least semi-actively taking care of it. If it's the latter.... could mean anything. Of course, even if it is still around, there's no guarantee it hasn't been left in a bush somewhere to return to earth, or has been on a date with a dirt oval and not scrapped correctly, or any other number of scenarios.

But, I'd like to think it's still out there in a lockup somewhere, waiting...

[sierraman]

This is interesting, now we have a plate me must be able to make some headway into finding out where it is/was

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Soundwave said:

What's really interesting is if you look at the previous list from 2013, 565 shows as having a liability date of May 2000. But now it doesn't show a date, only that's it's SORNed... so does that mean someone's put it on SORN in the intervening decade? Or is it just another of the DVLA's many data anomalies? If it's the former, it could mean someone is at least semi-actively taking care of it. If it's the latter.... could mean anything. Of course, even if it is still around, there's no guarantee it hasn't been left in a bush somewhere to return to earth, or has been on a date with a dirt oval and not scrapped correctly, or any other number of scenarios.

 

sadly I dont think anything has actually changed, for some reason a load of previously tax due vehicles (from Invacars to buses) now show as SORN, even those with scrapped markers again them

I suspect what has happened is these where vehicles which where SORNed back in the day, but remember SORN was something you had to renew every year like VED, then when the vehicle was disposed of/forgotten about the SORN was allowed to expire, and that was that, they would show as simply tax due whenever the date of SORN running out was,

until fast forward to now, and I think the DVLA for whatever reason suddenly "oh these vehicles where once SORN, lets re-instate that"

although it is interesting to note that It could also be a front end issue, for example normally when you have a car that is SORN and do a keeper change, the SORN gets cancelled and the vehicle becomes tax due, according to date you put down as when the new keeper got the vehicle

but recently @Harriytait I noticed when he purchased a Model 70 its SORN did not cancel like it should of, he mentioned another car he had bought recently who's SORN did not cancel, but he still got a letter from the DVLA saying "Oi you need to SORN this"

so I have to wonder if the front end of the DVLA checker is reading "was SORN but is no longer" as "vehicle is SORN" for some reason?

 

here for example is an MCW Metrobus that is scrapped but (now) shows as SORN

 

here is a couple posts from where I first noticed shenanigans afoot 

On 31/10/2022 at 12:53, LightBulbFun said:

Twas just doing my regular DVLA housekeeping when I noticed JHJ548N is SORN! 

  

and you may think whats the significance of this you ask?

well JHJ548N, is a Private Invacar Model 70, the only other private Invacar Model 70 aside from REV that was thought to MAYBE survive, (until the Private US Car showed up recently)

and with JHJ548N it had sadly never been confirmed what became of it, the last picture stuart has of it is from the 1990's and until recently it was tax due 2008 with a 2009 V5 and keeper change

so I have always liked to have thought that given it made it to 2008-2009 that by that point it would of been recognised as something special and saved rather then scrapped (the first Ministry Invacar Model 70 was officially returned to the road by the end of 2007 for example, MHJ22P)

but I have never been able to confirm its existence or whereabouts sadly, so to see it suddenly gain a SORN is quite exciting, and hopefully is some proof the cars existence still!

rather then the DVLA suddenly waking up and sending a nastygram to someone just holding a V5 for an untaxed car and nothing more! and someone panicking and just SORNing it despite not actually having the car anymore!

 

I have wondered if JHJ548N was this Unknown Indian Model 70, since the keeper change in 09 lines up somewhat with these photos from 2010!

or perhaps JHJ548N is this Model 70, in a suspiciously modern looking photograph! but again never been able to concretely confirm anything

 

On 05/11/2022 at 15:35, LightBulbFun said:

Today marks REV's 46th Birthday  

sadly I dont have any current photos for celebration! but hopefully @red5 can give her a pat on the nose or something! LOL  

 

 

however speaking of Model 70's in general continuing on from JHJ548N above, I noticed VPF441M is also SORN all of a sudden 

and this one is really curious because, AFAIK the person who the last V5 was issued too, has been dead for a fair while! previously it was tax due in 2003 or 2004 there abouts

(the Car is owned by Simon of the ICR but he does not yet have the V5 for it, apparently the daughter of the deceased did still have the V5 knocking around somewhere, but I dont know if it ever made its way to Simon)

 

so the fact its suddenly SORN is and along with JHJ548N being Suddenly SORN is very curious indeed!

 

I almost wonder if both of these vehicles where SORN'ed in the past, and had their SORN lapse, and now the DVLA are suddenly SORNing vehicles who's SORN was allowed to lapse? (because remember that SORN was not always continuous! it was something you had to renew every year like road tax)

 

if anyone has an example of a vehicle that they know they let the SORN lapse on and its just been sitting as is since then it would be interesting to see what it shows up as today!

 

[alcyonecorporation]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:28 PM, Dick Longbridge said:

I wonder how it faired against the Santana and Sierra? 

misread that as 'moist' 

[Soundwave]

53 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

sadly I dont think anything has actually changed, for some reason a load of previously tax due vehicles (from Invacars to buses) now show as SORN, even those with scrapped markers again them

I suspect what has happened is these where vehicles which where SORNed back in the day, but remember SORN was something you had to renew every year like VED, then when the vehicle was disposed of/forgotten about the SORN was allowed to expire, and that was that, they would show as simply tax due whenever the date of SORN running out was,

until fast forward to now, and I think the DVLA for whatever reason suddenly "oh these vehicles where once SORN, lets re-instate that"

although it is interesting to note that It could also be a front end issue, for example normally when you have a car that is SORN and do a keeper change, the SORN gets cancelled and the vehicle becomes tax due, according to date you put down as when the new keeper got the vehicle

but recently @Harriytait I noticed when he purchased a Model 70 its SORN did not cancel like it should of, he mentioned another car he had bought recently who's SORN did not cancel, but he still got a letter from the DVLA saying "Oi you need to SORN this"

so I have to wonder if the front end of the DVLA checker is reading "was SORN but is no longer" as "vehicle is SORN" for some reason?

 

here for example is an MCW Metrobus that is scrapped but (now) shows as SORN

 

here is a couple posts from where I first noticed shenanigans afoot 

 

I figured there'd be the possibility of DVLA data incompetence, the information on their systems always needs to be taken with a wheelbarrow of salt. I thought it was interesting anyway, even if I know deep down 565 is quite likely toast along with the rest of them. Although it doesn't have a scrapped marker against it, neither do several of the others... and as we all know, until relatively recently scrapping records were sloppy at the very best of times.

Still, looking at the data a bit more, some little tidbits to note. Seems the least popular colour was red (at least among the registrations corralled here), and all of the A-reg cars were blue. Speaking of the A-reg cars, I checked a few numbers either side of them and no other Lonsdales, so it seems they were registered in isolation rather than in bulk. So I'd guess that the DDF cars were ordered at the start of sales to prepare for a surge in demand that never materialised... and then the A-plate cars were sparse individual orders after the initial lot had been moved on, probably at a loss. I wonder how many were actually sold? I mean I know they weren't strong sellers but I'd assume they shifted more than the 17 here before switching back over to Mitsubishi badging!

[tooSavvy]

On 24/12/2022 at 18:27, Asimo said:

Whenever I think of Lonsdale* cars, I think of Dinsdale, of the Pirahna brothers.  

** I have actually seen a Lonsdale. It was a nearly new blue wagon, in Cheltenham, so not far from the importers in Cirencester.

..... I have ACTUALLY driven one!!

I had my MK2 escrote 4dr stolen from the MetroCentre, Gateshead [... regular gig for 'the lads' 🙄] and made a few quick calls for cheap hire wheels, that afternoon.....

Cab ride over to a 'Rent-a-$hiter' outfit, at the end of Byker Bridge = Lonsdale wagon 😮😮

...... Yeah, well, fuc#inn pissed off when I got home..... Someone in extremely greasy overalls had been in the car [driver] and the 'pull out I.R.' seatbelt was coated (not obvious, obviously!!) in black oily $hite >> deposited on my nice, light buff, cotton jacket.

These things..... One does not forget easily 🤬🤬

[egg]

1 hour ago, Soundwave said:

I wonder how many were actually sold?

Wiki quotes 700, which refers to this unsourced Honest John piece

https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/lonsdale/yd41yd45/

[Soundwave]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Wiki quotes 700, which refers to this unsourced Honest John piece

https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/lonsdale/yd41yd45/

I wonder if that includes all the ones rebadged as Colts/Mitsubishis when the whole Lonsdale brand went tits up?

[quicksilver]

Seen this? https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/automotive-history/cars-that-time-forgot-lonsdale/

Written last September and claims four survivors including two taxed! The HML data it links to says one of them was made in 2015 though so they could be something else entirely.

[Soundwave]

39 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Seen this? https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/automotive-history/cars-that-time-forgot-lonsdale/

Written last September and claims four survivors including two taxed! The HML data it links to says one of them was made in 2015 though so they could be something else entirely.

Yeah, I've seen that... I think Hagerty didn't really examine the data very well TBH - I think they're errors or referring to something else. As you correctly point out, the dates are all over the place - none of the "licensed" ones have a registration date that lines up with the production run. Also if you look at the engines of the licensed ones... two diesels (never an option), a pair of sub-1.2 petrols (1.6 was the smallest) and most oddly of all, a 4.3 petrol. Definitely don't think that was on the options list. Of all the data on there, there's only one example from 1983 showing as a SORN, which I think refers to the one in my previous post.

Long story short, DVLA data is a complete clusterfuck.

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Soundwave said:

Yeah, I've seen that... I think Hagerty didn't really examine the data very well TBH - I think they're errors or referring to something else. As you correctly point out, the dates are all over the place - none of the "licensed" ones have a registration date that lines up with the production run. Also if you look at the engines of the licensed ones... two diesels (never an option), a pair of sub-1.2 petrols (1.6 was the smallest) and most oddly of all, a 4.3 petrol. Definitely don't think that was on the options list. Of all the data on there, there's only one example from 1983 showing as a SORN, which I think refers to the one in my previous post.

Long story short, DVLA data is a complete clusterfuck.

I dont think so, because the data the HML has is from 2021 for that statistic, and thats "long" before the current DVLA SORN fuckery

so I think there is genuinely one on SORN somewhere! just gotta find it  

 

you can always FOI the DVLA like what @egg did for K prefix mondeo statistics  

 

is is however worth noting that thats 1983 car by year of manufacture, not date of first registration so it could be a later import of some kind...

[sierraman]

There must be a way of finding where it is. 

[mk2_craig]

I reckon there's an equal chance that one or more of those shown simply as tax expiring circa early 1990s will have been pushed into a shed and left to gather dust, years before SORN was a thing. 

[Asimo]

https://www.spreadshirt.co.uk/shop/design/lonsdale+26+estate+delight+in+autoshite+mens+t-shirt-D612d49e096a865672394fed5?sellable=aZVXEplxlrC14JzDpnJz-6-7

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Another idea - if anyone spots a Lonsdale on the webz anywhere, stick the registration down here and run a quick check on its current status. Probably won't help, obviously. 

A71 JCE  - untaxed since Aug 1997

DDF 508Y - untaxed since Aug 1990

 

[bunglebus]

A831 YSC untaxed since Dec 93

[sierraman]

I feel like making it my life’s work to find one of these things. 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

A710 SYR untaxed since March 1997. As featured* on Harry Enfield's show.

[Soundwave]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Another idea - if anyone spots a Lonsdale on the webz anywhere, stick the registration down here and run a quick check on its current status. Probably won't help, obviously. 

A71 JCE  - untaxed since Aug 1997

DDF 508Y - untaxed since Aug 1990

 

Good plan - already got those two, but please do keep an eye out for more!

 

1 hour ago, bunglebus said:

A831 YSC untaxed since Dec 93

Ooh, haven't got that one - it is going on ZE LIST.



Listed as "beige" rather than "white"... haven't come across a beige one before!

[Dick Cheeseburger]

@SoundwaveHow did you work out the registration which is SORN? It looks like it was untaxed when @SambaS checked it in 2013 along with the batch below, so someone has SORNed it since...

Lonsdale 2.0 - A710 SYR - Blue - Date of liability 01 03 1997

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 522Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 02 1988

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 507Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 12 1992

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 508Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 08 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 509Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 06 1995

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 510Y - Green - Date of liability 01 02 1992

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 512Y - Silver - Date of liability 01 07 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 519Y - Red - Date of liability 01 07 1992

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 520Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 11 1991

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 521Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 08 1991

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 522Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 02 1988

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 532Y - Silver - Date of liability 01 01 1990

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 533Y - White - Date of liability 01 10 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 565Y - White - Date of liability 01 05 2000

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 566Y - Green - Date of liability01 07 1993

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 594Y - White - Date of liability 01 03 1996

 

[Soundwave]

9 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

@SoundwaveHow did you work out the registration which is SORN? It looks like it was untaxed when @SambaS checked it in 2013 along with the batch below, so someone has SORNed it since...

Lonsdale 2.0 - A710 SYR - Blue - Date of liability 01 03 1997

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 522Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 02 1988

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 507Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 12 1992

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 508Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 08 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 509Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 06 1995

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 510Y - Green - Date of liability 01 02 1992

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 512Y - Silver - Date of liability 01 07 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 519Y - Red - Date of liability 01 07 1992

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 520Y - Blue - Date of liability 01 11 1991

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 521Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 08 1991

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 522Y - Brown - Date of liability 01 02 1988

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 532Y - Silver - Date of liability 01 01 1990

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 533Y - White - Date of liability 01 10 1990

Lonsdale 2.0 - DDF 565Y - White - Date of liability 01 05 2000

Lonsdale 1.6 - DDF 566Y - Green - Date of liability01 07 1993

Lonsdale 2.6 - DDF 594Y - White - Date of liability 01 03 1996

 

Manually checking them all. I'd seen on howmanyleft that there was a SORN one, and has been for some time. So the only way to find out which one was to check any and all registrations I could find!  

However, @LightBulbFun has since highlighted an issue with SORN which could mean the SORN is down to a glitch rather than genuinely being SORNed. Need to investigate further, although I'm not entirely sure what investigation I can do beyond what I've done already.

[Weird Car]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

but recently @Harriytait I noticed when he purchased a Model 70 its SORN did not cancel like it should of, he mentioned another car he had bought recently who's SORN did not cancel, but he still got a letter from the DVLA saying "Oi you need to SORN this"

Just thought I’d mention they did eventually show up as untaxed about a month after I did the keeper change and both times the keeper change was done online. Also they both showed up untaxed on the same day alluding to fact it was probably a glitch in the system and they later noticed and sorted it for everyone at the same time 

[quicksilver]

17 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I dont think so, because the data the HML has is from 2021 for that statistic, and thats "long" before the current DVLA SORN fuckery

so I think there is genuinely one on SORN somewhere! just gotta find it  

 

you can always FOI the DVLA like what @egg did for K prefix mondeo statistics  

 

is is however worth noting that thats 1983 car by year of manufacture, not date of first registration so it could be a later import of some kind...

I wonder what the heck those other four or five vehicles licensed as Lonsdales actually are and why they're under that name when they're clearly not Aussie Mitsubishis. Looks like DDF 565Y is the only genuine Lonsdale among them and there shouldn't be any imports as Lonsdale was a UK-only brand. I suppose there's a chance one might be hiding as a Mitsubishi that's really a Lonsdale, but finding such a thing would be needle in a haystack stuff.

Funnily enough, it's Australia Day today so this topic is very apt.

[egg]

I think an FoI request would be worthwhile, to check the back end data is the same is what is showing. Just need to formulate the most useful wording/request.

[Soundwave]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I think an FoI request would be worthwhile, to check the back end data is the same is what is showing. Just need to formulate the most useful wording/request.

What sort of wording did you use on your Mondeo info request?

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Soundwave said:

What sort of wording did you use on your Mondeo info request?

I'll PM you a direct link, so you can see.

[Formula Autos]

I used to live next door to a Lonsdale owner. The bloke who lived next door to my parents (when I was still “living at home”) had one in about ‘98ish - a brown saloon. This was in Whitehaven in Cumbria.

Talking to him about it one day he told me it was an Australian built version of a Mitsubishi with a six cylinder engine. First time I’d ever heard of Lonsdale; growing up I prided myself on being so car mad I knew every make that had been sold in the UK since the war. A new make from the ‘80s was a shock to me.

His Lonsdale was very much a non-runner at the time, parked on the front garden, and I think from memory the number plates had been taken off. Y reg seems to ring a bell in connection with the car though - maybe I saw a plate inside the car when we got talking about it? 

This bloke was called Dale and had gaffer taped over half the badge so it read “Dale”. Can’t remember his surname though.

Not long after that he had a fall-out with his other half and left, with his cars being trailered away by mates shortly after. He had a few old cars - some road legal, others parked up on the garden (Onslow style). I’ve seen a Citroen GS Pallas that was once his turn up in a barn near Whitehaven in recent years. There’s a chance his Lonsdale may have been similarly stashed/bought by one of his mates.

Or he could easily have fixed it up and got it on the road. I know he successfully restored a black Lancer Turbo. He seemed to be well into Mitsubishis (as well as other stuff), and an orange Celeste I remember him having still exists and is being restored by someone else at the moment - also in Whitehaven. It had survived in a barn nearby. 

I’ll ask around the weird old car scene of West Cumbria, and if there’s any word on Dale and/or his Lonsdale I’ll report back to this thread.