Bus Shite

[PhilA]

Quite a lot of the early images in this thread are broken; I remember a Battery operated coach (national express?) that was being experimentially tried, with a big battery trailer attached with an umbilical.

 

Does anybody have pictures and history?

[Inspector Morose]

1 minute ago, PhilA said:

Quite a lot of the early images in this thread are broken; I remember a Battery operated coach (national express?) that was being experimentially tried, with a big battery trailer attached with an umbilical.

 

Does anybody have pictures and history?

This one?

[PhilA]

3 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

This one?

That's the beast. Thank you!

[Inspector Morose]

Towards the end of 1974, Leyland and the National Bus Company at the request of the Department of Environment converted the solitary Ribble 10.3-metre Leyland National (OTF 354M) to battery/electric. Approximately 7-tons of batteries were carried in a specially built two-axle Dyson trailer permanently coupled to the bus. In order to conserve the maximum amount of electrical energy for traction, a diesel heating system was installed and a regenerative braking system was incorporated in the normal braking system. The bus had a top speed of 39mph and had a range of 50 miles on a 8 hour charge, the batteries had a four year operational life.

 The overall length of the bus and trailer was nearly 45 feet which made it about longer than legally permitted on UK roads. This caused problems on re-certification and so special permission was granted to allow the bus to operate but not on public roads. The only roads it therefore could operate on was the Runcorn Busway in Cheshire which was part of the Runcorn New Town housing development as it consisted almost of exclusive roads only used by buses and nothing else. After completion, the battery-electric Leyland National was transferred to Crosville's Runcorn depot but it retained the Poppy Red livery with just the Ribble fleet names replaced with Crosville ones.

Due to the limited range  it spent a lot of time out of service while the batteries were charged, but it was a worthwhile experimental exercise. The special dispensation granted to the NBC to operate the bus originally ended on 31st October 1976 but was extended until some time in 1978. 

After the trial, it was concluded that a battery-electric bus was not practicable. Rather than converting the National back to standard it was dismantled by Crosville to provide body components to repair a badly damaged fellow.
 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:51 PM, Inspector Morose said:

1931 Gilford single deck bus powered by a Junkers opposed piston engine and front wheel drive.

Amazingly, nobody wanted to buy one so the double deck version (yup, the built two of the things) was converted into a front wheel drive trolleybus making it the only one of its kind ever to run in the UK (at Wolverhampton). Unsurprisngly, it wasn't a success.

 

Here, we see the genesis of the oversized radiator grille.  Gilford got there before Audi and BMW! 🙌🙌🙌

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

This one?

 

5 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

Towards the end of 1974, Leyland and the National Bus Company at the request of the Department of Environment converted the solitary Ribble 10.3-metre Leyland National (OTF 354M) to battery/electric. Approximately 7-tons of batteries were carried in a specially built two-axle Dyson trailer permanently coupled to the bus. In order to conserve the maximum amount of electrical energy for traction, a diesel heating system was installed and a regenerative braking system was incorporated in the normal braking system. The bus had a top speed of 39mph and had a range of 50 miles on a 8 hour charge, the batteries had a four year operational life.

 The overall length of the bus and trailer was nearly 45 feet which made it about longer than legally permitted on UK roads. This caused problems on re-certification and so special permission was granted to allow the bus to operate but not on public roads. The only roads it therefore could operate on was the Runcorn Busway in Cheshire which was part of the Runcorn New Town housing development as it consisted almost of exclusive roads only used by buses and nothing else. After completion, the battery-electric Leyland National was transferred to Crosville's Runcorn depot but it retained the Poppy Red livery with just the Ribble fleet names replaced with Crosville ones.

Due to the limited range  it spent a lot of time out of service while the batteries were charged, but it was a worthwhile experimental exercise. The special dispensation granted to the NBC to operate the bus originally ended on 31st October 1976 but was extended until some time in 1978. 

After the trial, it was concluded that a battery-electric bus was not practicable. Rather than converting the National back to standard it was dismantled by Crosville to provide body components to repair a badly damaged fellow.
 

hah thats quite fitting that the one(?) Electric National happened to be Lancashire registered, as while that was being converted
 

Fred Miller Ltd was busy refurbishing and converting Petrol Tippen Delta to Electric Tippen Delta's   complete with new Chassis numbers  (they where treated as new vehicles effectively)  and thus all  gained new Lancashire marks, take for example RTF114M pictured bellow  

As far as am I aware this mass conversion of over 500 Petrol Delta's to Electric makes it one of if not the first case big case of Petrol to electric vehicle conversion?

 

as a side note that battery trailer looks suspiciously like one of these...

(which is fitting also as it too is Electric battery powered LOL)

[High Jetter]

Trailer's axles closer together, shirley? Reminds me of something, on-site genny's?

[martc]

Talking of busses with battery trailers, the Russians have exhibited something similar but far more recent, 2018 -

The PC Transport Systems Pioneer 2. There's 150kWh in the trailer and another 50 kWh in the roof, range is approx 200km and it will operate, not surprisingly, in temperatures between -40°C and +40°C.

Further details here  - https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/1811/russian-electric-bus-trailering-mobile-battery-pack-wows-at-euro-show

It doesn't look like it went beyond the prototype stage, but PC do make more conventional  electric trolly buses and trams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Transport_Systems

 

[Metal Guru]

1 hour ago, martc said:

Talking of busses with battery trailers, the Russians have exhibited something similar but far more recent, 2018 -

The PC Transport Systems Pioneer 2. There's 150kWh in the trailer and another 50 kWh in the roof, range is approx 200km and it will operate, not surprisingly, in temperatures between -40°C and +40°C.

Further details here  - https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/1811/russian-electric-bus-trailering-mobile-battery-pack-wows-at-euro-show

It doesn't look like it went beyond the prototype stage, but PC do make more conventional  electric trolly buses and trams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Transport_Systems

 

I saw an article recently suggesting a trailer load of batteries could be the answer to most people’s objection to EV range problems.

Most new EVs have at least 200 mile range which is plenty for the commute or most day trips. However it proposed that for the two or three times a year you need more range , you just hire the trailer load of batteries. Presumably if you’ve got a caravan you end up with a mini road train.

[DVee8]

This one belonged to my FiL  

[gm]

i remember as a small boy waiting at those bus stands for the bus to take us up pelaw bank when we lived in hilda park. proper old noisey smelly buses, good memories  

[808 Estate]

I remember those battery powered trash trailers in the city centre as a kid.

[SunnySouth]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:10 PM, High Jetter said:

Ex Southdown?

Apparently not...

[MiniMinorMk3]

Some pictures of buses in teh early 1970s on the Isle of Man

[martc]

Look at this beauty...

An Alder Valley Leyland 440EA- Asco B19F (is that the body builder?) between duties in Maidenhead Bus Station. Bought in  November 1974  for use on service 18, Maidenhead to Marlow, which crossed the weight restricted suspension bridge over the River Thames.

 

 

[Cookiesouwest]

[High Jetter]

Is that the 'cross-country' route?

[busmansholiday]

6 hours ago, martc said:

Look at this beauty...

An Alder Valley Leyland 440EA- Asco B19F (is that the body builder?) between duties in Maidenhead Bus Station. Bought in  November 1974  for use on service 18, Maidenhead to Marlow, which crossed the weight restricted suspension bridge over the River Thames.

 

 

Yes, Asco built those appalling things, (that's a memory I wish you hadn't reminded me off, although several beers are helping me forget you found that picture).

[martc]

13 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Yes, Asco built those appalling things, (that's a memory I wish you hadn't reminded me off, although several beers are helping me forget you found that picture).

Sorry to open up old wounds, but it's good to talk and get things of your chest; why were they so appalling? It might not help you, but I think they look quite smart...

[justbinnedit]

The voltra buses in Newcastle have caught my eye recently when I have been up there. Will be interesting to see if electric buses catch on wether it will be a fad before the powers that be realise that li-ion batteries are not the way forward. 

[MiniMinorMk3]

50 minutes ago, justbinnedit said:

The voltra buses in Newcastle have caught my eye recently when I have been up there. Will be interesting to see if electric buses catch on wether it will be a fad before the powers that be realise that li-ion batteries are not the way forward. 

They were introduced 2 years ago and are still only on the two very short, circular routes that serve Gateshead and Newcastle City Centre. If they are that good I would have thought they would have rolled out a few more routes by now. My guess it is just a bit of green washing and a way for Go North East to avoid the new Clean Air Zone that will be going live very soon.

Newcastle and Gateshead Clean Air Zone | Newcastle City Council

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, justbinnedit said:

The voltra buses in Newcastle have caught my eye recently when I have been up there. Will be interesting to see if electric buses catch on wether it will be a fad before the powers that be realise that li-ion batteries are not the way forward. 

Plenty of battery buses (electric buses to me are trolley buses) in service around the world now. I believe Newport will be the first operator to be all battery powered in the U K as 33% of the fleet is already battery powered.

[rml2345]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:51 PM, Inspector Morose said:

1931 Gilford single deck bus powered by a Junkers opposed piston engine and front wheel drive.

Amazingly, nobody wanted to buy one so the double deck version (yup, the built two of the things) was converted into a front wheel drive trolleybus making it the only one of its kind ever to run in the UK (at Wolverhampton). Unsurprisngly, it wasn't a success.

 

Were Gilford not also a very early adopter of air suspension?

And to go back to Leyland tin fronts briefly; Edinburgh Corporation fitted a fibreglass copy of the BMMO tin front to their PD3s before bodying by Alexander. 

[Eyersey1234]

5 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

They were introduced 2 years ago and are still only on the two very short, circular routes that serve Gateshead and Newcastle City Centre. If they are that good I would have thought they would have rolled out a few more routes by now. My guess it is just a bit of green washing and a way for Go North East to avoid the new Clean Air Zone that will be going live very soon.

Newcastle and Gateshead Clean Air Zone | Newcastle City Council

To be fair during most of 2020 and into 2021 the only new vehicles delivered were buses already on order due to Covid. GNE have introduced more this year.

[MiniMinorMk3]

47 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

To be fair during most of 2020 and into 2021 the only new vehicles delivered were buses already on order due to Covid. GNE have introduced more this year.

Just the one on the Q3 route.

[Inspector Morose]

3 hours ago, rml2345 said:

Were Gilford not also a very early adopter of air suspension?

Yes, they used Gruss air springs, manufactured by Pneumatic tools Ltd, Glasgow.

[martc]

A gathering of buses in Kamppi in the late 1960s.
 

[martc]

Robur Garant 30K coach from early '60's East Germany. What cool looking things

 

[busmansholiday]

8 hours ago, rml2345 said:

And to go back to Leyland tin fronts briefly; Edinburgh Corporation fitted a fibreglass copy of the BMMO tin front to their PD3s before bodying by Alexander

As far as I remember all Edinburgh's PD2s and PD3s had standard Leyland tin fronts. 

[mat777]

19 hours ago, martc said:

Robur Garant 30K coach from early '60's East Germany. What cool looking things

 

Wow, never knew those were a thing! Oddly small radiator grille - could be interesting in the mountains in the summer? I'm assuming 30K is the power in KW... (or did they use HP in Europe back then?)

 

Here's some spots of mine from Valetta, Malta over the summer. Much like London Transport's Routemasters, the "vintage buses" in Malta were kept in service until well after their sell-by date, before eventually being replaced by a modern fleet - and then a handful re-appeared in fully restored format to serve in heritage format on selected popular tourist routes. In the case of these beautifully restored examples, they seem to be owned and operated by a local private garage rather than a municipal bus company.
Interestingly, although they appear to be running their original vintage diesel engines (and extremely unsynchronised boxes), they have all been fitted with LPG systems. This was something new to me, as I had thought LPG was only possible to use on spark engines. 

All the buses I saw were varying vintage of British light coach chassis and running gear, with locally made bodies.

Thames and OB:

 

Austin of some sort:

 

Another Thames with ALL the signwriting and an onboard shrine: