The Budget & Us

[Peter C]

Based on this little summary taken from BBC News, there are no changes to the 40 year old car tax exemption or any other policy that applies directly to our hobby.

Phew!

[danthecapriman]

Great news (for a change!) for our hobby.

But, wtf is this mileage tax on EV’s and plug in hybrid’s?? How the hell is that going to happen?

[Metal Guru]

6 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Great news (for a change!) for our hobby.

But, wtf is this mileage tax on EV’s and plug in hybrid’s?? How the hell is that going to happen?

That makes PHEVs worthless. Everyone will be offloading them and no one will want to buy, assuming it’s not just new ones.

[BorniteIdentity]

7 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Great news (for a change!) for our hobby.

But, wtf is this mileage tax on EV’s and plug in hybrid’s?? How the hell is that going to happen?

It's actually very simple to do.  You either declare at the end of each year and pay the bill - or pay up front for miles and put a sticker in your window with a max mileage.

[danthecapriman]

1 minute ago, BorniteIdentity said:

It's actually very simple to do.  You either declare at the end of each year and pay the bill - or pay up front for miles and put a sticker in your window with a max mileage.

Thats relying on honesty! I suppose for MOT age vehicles they get the mileage each year from that though.

Could this be the first step towards road pricing per mile for everyone though?

[beko1987]

Is that ev tax on top of the rfl or instead of it?

My stepdad does tiny miles, my dad does bigger miles. Will have to use my polluting diesel more for our concerts to keep the miles down on his ev if it's an additional tax 😂

Which would then ironically leave a motability car sat idle on the drive whilst it's recipient was in mine 🤔 Can still use his blue badge in any car at least

[Snipes]

They were always going to have to come up with some way to replace fuel duty when electric cars became popular.

Is anyone actually surprised by this?

[beko1987]

19 minutes ago, Snipes said:

They were always going to have to come up with some way to replace fuel duty when electric cars became popular.

Is anyone actually surprised by this?

Nope, I remember chatting with car people at work way back when and we said the same. Was nice whilst it lasted for alot of people I'm sure.

If my stepdads zoe breaks beyond economical repair now they'd be as cheap to just run a 1.2l pez clio I think

[BorniteIdentity]

2 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Thats relying on honesty!

It really doesn’t. 

If they do it retrospectively by MOT then they’ll send you a bill for the miles between the MOT miles. Yes, you can probably have your mileage corrected each year but it’s cheaper to just pay the bill. 

If they do it in advance, your sticker in the window will say 23,587 miles (for example). You get checked and it’s under, great! You get checked and it’s over, you get a penalty.

I imagine they’ll go for the former but the latter - from memory - already works in other countries. 

Aye, there’s always a scam or scheme to swerve it. Just as there have been bent MOT testers for the past 50 years or whatever. But it’ll generate revenue and that’s the main thrust here. 

[Spiny Norman]

A ppm tax on battery cars was inevitable to compensate for the decline in fuel duty so here it comes EV fans. What is it, 3ppm initially but it'll rise not only to compensate fuel duty but to provide extra revenue, so start thinking in terms of 12-15ppm within 10 years. 

As for how will they know, most modern cars whether EV or not are grassing bastards with internet capability and could easily be programmed to upload their mileage, speed, precise location etc to some DVLA database which will bill you at the end of the tax year, and no doubt shut down your car if you don't pay. Then will come the tax on the high current electricity used to charge them. 

Given the government's record of anything to do with technology I'm sure this will work faultlessly*

[DavieW]

21 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

It really doesn’t. 

If they do it retrospectively by MOT then they’ll send you a bill for the miles between the MOT miles. 

I do approx 30 000 miles a year. So at its first MOT I'd (more accurately my compnay) would be hit with a bill for £900.

Can't see many people being happy with that, even the 10 000 miles a year folk. 

[wesacosa]

wonder how it works for the first three years.. There could be many multiple owners of a car before its first MOT

[Dobloseven]

Aren't modern cars, certainly electric ones,connected to the outside world and it's easy to follow where they are and where they've been.Just provide bank details at the start of ownership and they'll take the money each month.WCPGW?

[UltraWomble]

27 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

wonder how it works for the first three years.. There could be many multiple owners of a car before its first MOT

Its not coming in till 2028 - so between now and then there is the opportunity to procure and legislate for a plug in type device to retrofit to existing BEV's and for it to be inbuilt on new ones from 2028 that simply transmits your mileage data (see insurance Black Box tech) to a central database and you get billed monthly.

Im sure they would implement penalties for disconnection or jamming devices being used/detected.

Such devices could also report back speeding offences so you are automatically fined for any naughty behaviour

[Snipes]

Funny seeing a repeat of the Motability discussion here over on Twitter.

[Metal Guru]

2 minutes ago, UltraWomble said:

Its not coming in till 2028 - so between now and then there is the opportunity to procure and legislate for a plug in type device to retrofit to existing BEV's and for it to be inbuilt on new ones from 2028 that simply transmits your mileage data (see insurance Black Box tech) to a central database and you get billed monthly.

Im sure they would implement penalties for disconnection or jamming devices being used/detected.

You just need to wrap your car in aluminium foil. 

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, DavieW said:

I do approx 30 000 miles a year. So at its first MOT I'd (more accurately my compnay) would be hit with a bill for £900.

Can't see many people being happy with that, even the 10 000 miles a year folk. 

Charge your customers more. That’s what I would be doing. 

[danthecapriman]

How long do we reckon before all the click bait & frothing vids on YouTube/face ache etc etc about all this!? 😄

[lesapandre]

Thanks for starting the thread and reporting that @Peter C very kind.

[HMC]

1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

Aren't modern cars, certainly electric ones,connected to the outside world and it's easy to follow where they are and where they've been.Just provide bank details at the start of ownership and they'll take the money each month.WCPGW?

Yes im sure that utility is there and readily available for this.

Can log the miles; and where you have been have been, and with how many passengers (could attract a discounted rate for multiple occupancy?) possibly with higher charges levied at peak times/ locations;  inner city routes etc.

This data could also linked (is already on some levels)  to your identity and be shared for insurance risk assessments and also between agencies in the interests of keeping the public safe and law enforcement etc etc

[Cavcraft]

4 hours ago, beko1987 said:

Is that ev tax on top of the rfl or instead of it?

 

On top of the RFL.

[barefoot]

In case you missed it Rachel has increased the Expensive Car Supplement from £40,000 to £50,000 from April Fool’s Day next year.

[beko1987]

20 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

The BBC have got so far with their reporting:

"Calculating the number of miles that drivers cover is difficult". 

Not very helpful!

This method seems fraught with cost and problems: 

How to calculate? By tracking?

Who is going to do that?

Who is the implementation contract to be let to? Private company?

What's the administration cost? 

Annual payment but with VED - what if people can't pay what they clock up?

What happens to cars sold? More than once in a year?

Divorce, death, insolvency etc - how factored in?

What if the car isn't used at all - will there be an admin fee still?

The government has a track record of very poor performance with IT - how's it going to handle problems with the data and appeals (ie folk saying I did not drive that far!)?

With IT a government body even leaked the budget so handling billions of data points may be a challenge. 😂

To go up by inflation each year - that could compound quite quickly and will be not in line with VED?

How does freezing fuel duty and taxing electric cars square with climate goals?

Etc etc...😂

Ill thought taxes can have unintentional consequences  - UK will end up resembling Cuba - Viva La Revolution!

That could be an autoshite meet up Pic though 🤔 😂 

[danthecapriman]

23 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

The BBC have got so far with their reporting:

"Calculating the number of miles that drivers cover is difficult". 

Not very helpful!

This method seems fraught with cost and problems: 

How to calculate? By tracking?

Who is going to do that?

Who is the implementation contract to be let to? Private company?

What's the administration cost? 

Annual payment but with VED - what if people can't pay what they clock up?

What happens to cars sold? More than once in a year?

Divorce, death, insolvency etc - how factored in?

What if the car isn't used at all - will there be an admin fee still?

The government has a track record of very poor performance with IT - how's it going to handle problems with the data and appeals (ie folk saying I did not drive that far!)?

With IT a government body even leaked the budget so handling billions of data points may be a challenge. 😂

To go up by inflation each year - that could compound quite quickly and will be not in line with VED?

How does freezing fuel duty and taxing electric cars square with climate goals?

Etc etc...😂

Ill thought taxes can have unintentional consequences  - UK will end up resembling Cuba - Viva La Revolution!

If that photo of Cuba is what’s to come I’m all for it!😄

[Dobloseven]

5 minutes ago, barefoot said:

In case you missed it Rachel has increased the Expensive Car Supplement from £40,000 to £50,000 from April Fool’s Day next year.

That is about time.When it was set in 2017,£40k would buy a goodly motor.But those days are long gone.

[cobblers]

2 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

It really doesn’t. 

If they do it retrospectively by MOT then they’ll send you a bill for the miles between the MOT miles. Yes, you can probably have your mileage corrected each year but it’s cheaper to just pay the bill. 

If they do it in advance, your sticker in the window will say 23,587 miles (for example). You get checked and it’s under, great! You get checked and it’s over, you get a penalty.

I imagine they’ll go for the former but the latter - from memory - already works in other countries. 

Aye, there’s always a scam or scheme to swerve it. Just as there have been bent MOT testers for the past 50 years or whatever. But it’ll generate revenue and that’s the main thrust here. 

It's about £30-80 on aliexpress for a mileage blocker to fit the majority of modern cars. Invisibly plugs into the dash cluster, and only adds on 1/10th of the miles you do (or whatever fraction you decide)

I'm all for it! Bring on mileage based tax for all vehicles! 

[beko1987]

1 minute ago, cobblers said:

It's about £30-80 on aliexpress for a mileage blocker to fit the majority of modern cars. Invisibly plugs into the dash cluster, and only adds on 1/10th of the miles you do (or whatever fraction you decide)

I'm all for it! Bring on mileage based tax for all vehicles! 

Tbh with my average annual milage I think I'd be better off doing that anyway 😂🤔

Call it 9k a year to be generous, my qq costs £16.62 a month to tax currently...

[barefoot]

2 minutes ago, cobblers said:

It's about £30-80 on aliexpress for a mileage blocker to fit the majority of modern cars. Invisibly plugs into the dash cluster, and only adds on 1/10th of the miles you do (or whatever fraction you decide)

Wouldn't that make your fuel economy look shite though?

[comfortablynumb]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Who is going to do that?

Who is the implementation contract to be let to? Private company?

Step forward ( again) Tony Blair and mates....🤦

[hairnet]

is it gonna be for new cars from 2028 

or will they do retrospective like they did on everything else and pick an arbitrary date (the 2017 thing)

also road pricing isnt new - kiwi have it for diesel vehicles for years

dont pay or try and skip it muchos fines etc