Did you work at Longbridge? Rover stories. Red Robbo things.

[AnthonyG]

This isn’t about BL or the West Midlands but is still an interesting read, particularly on account of how Ford was considered by far the best run major car firm in the UK.

This is the second edition which includes some stuff about the then new factory in Bridgend. Beynon is an academic so parts of it are a bit dry but still lots of interesting info - particularly about the culture clash between men from Dagenham, sent north to set up the Halewood plant in the very early 60s, and the Liverpool workers. 

Edit: just noticed someone at Penguin books did their homework, as the front cover is in exactly the same typeface as all of Ford’s print advertising of the time! 

[motorpunk]

10 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

My dad's 54 Austin Somerset was bought new direct from the factory by a union convenor,who lived next door to robbos parents.

That’s a great snippet of info, thanks! If you had any details of the addresses or names (by DM, not on the public board) I’d love to know. 

[MrBig]

On 18/01/2025 at 20:02, Dobloseven said:

I've often wondered about the home life of such a person.I'm feeling  seventies sitcom vibes.

Cue jaunty theme tune and cartoon title cards.

Derek pulls up outside his suburban home in his limeflower Austin Allegro.Gets out,slams the door, a wheel trim falls off and a headlamp drops out theatrically.He shrugs.His neighbour is painting his fence.

"Home early again,Derek,what is it this time?""Oh they sacked some men for sleeping on the assembly line,so we're on strike".Over the road,Mr Patel is polishing his Datsun Sunny,he overhears the conversation.Owing to a dearth of South Asian Equity members, he's played by a suitably made up English actor.He speaks with an exaggerated accent."Derek,you are damn fool man,if you carry on like this,we Blittish will have no motor industry left.In India ,if a man refuses to work,his master will beat him until he sees sense"."Oh,no need to worry MrP, we've got an all new,well apart from the engine and gearbox and some other parts,small car coming out that's a world beater"."And what will this "British car to beat the world" be called,?" sneers MrP,"The Siesta?".

Derek enters his house,His long suffering wife is in the kitchen baking."On strike again,Derek?. That's the third time this week and it's only Wednesday".Derek goes into the front room,not listening to her."I've made a new friend today at the Ladies Circle,Derek, she's given me this recipe for a fruitcake.She's really nice,her names Mary Edwardes.Her husband Michael works at your place.Sounds like he's got a really good job.Anyway I've invited them round on Saturday evening for a fondue party, I'm sure you'll find lots to talk about...."!

This needs to be a screenplay!

[grogee]

On 20/01/2025 at 23:25, AnthonyG said:

This isn’t about BL or the West Midlands but is still an interesting read, particularly on account of how Ford was considered by far the best run major car firm in the UK.

 

That looks like an interesting read. 

My experience at Ford inside R&D (not on the production line) wasn't much happier. Mind you I was a contractor rather than permie. 

[warch]

Nothing to do with Birmingham as such, but in respect of BL I read an old copy of Classic Tractor (yes I know Rule 34 and all that), where someone who was a service engineer for Leyland tractors had been invited to see them being built at the Bathgate factory in West Lothian. He happened to notice one of the components had been wrongly assembled, pointed this out to a foreman and apparently basically got told to fuck off and mind his own business.

The Ford factory had a suggestions box for ideas that could be used to improve their products.

Another story concerned an employee of the County tractor firm, who went to great pains to make sure that transported and exported vehicles were carefully secured for shipping (so as to avoid paint and panel damage) who got told off by some Liverpudlian dock workers because he was taking work away from the men who would be tasked with repairing them.

I'm a great supporter of unionisation, being aware of what working conditions were like before they were a thing, but they were their own worst enemy at times.

 

[Bren]

If you go on aronline they have a series on BL under Michael Edwardes which is very interesting.

[sierraman]

I’m confused what sort of engagement someone was looking for fitting pistons in to Cortina engine blocks. It’s a factory job like any other, what were they looking for? A month’s sabbatical test driving Mustangs in the Death Valley? 😂

[grogee]

The difference between UK and Japanese production line culture is fascinating and explains a lot about the quality of the end product. 

The 'Japanese Way' is to involve the line worker in continual process improvement so s/he suggests methods of reducing manufacturing issues/defects.

Every worker also has access to a 'STOP' button (it has a Japanese name which I've forgotten, @motorpunk might know) which halts the production line completely if something is discovered that would create an issue downstream. Workers are encouraged to press it. 

In the UK, you raise issues at your peril as @sierraman describes. The production line output rate is far more important than Len's opinions about how to screw on the rear light lens. Don't cause trouble, and don't be a know-it-all. 

All of the above is 20-30 years out of date but there are still cultural legacies that are borne out in, say, JLR quality v Honda quality. 

[sierraman]

4 minutes ago, grogee said:

The difference between UK and Japanese production line culture is fascinating and explains a lot about the quality of the end product. 

The 'Japanese Way' is to involve the line worker in continual process improvement so s/he suggests methods of reducing manufacturing issues/defects.

Every worker also has access to a 'STOP' button (it has a Japanese name which I've forgotten, @motorpunk might know) which halts the production line completely if something is discovered that would create an issue downstream. Workers are encouraged to press it. 

In the UK, you raise issues at your peril as @sierraman describes. The production line output rate is far more important than Len's opinions about how to screw on the rear light lens. Don't cause trouble, and don't be a know-it-all. 

All of the above is 20-30 years out of date but there are still cultural legacies that are borne out in, say, JLR quality v Honda quality. 

‘Shut the fuck up and get those indicator units fitted’ 😂

[motorpunk]

9 minutes ago, grogee said:

The difference between UK and Japanese production line culture is fascinating and explains a lot about the quality of the end product. 

 

ahem.

I love such subject matter.

[Dave_Q]

I've discussed this with colleagues at work, apparently the Japanese way is to keep focusing on making all parts closer and closer to nominal dimensions. The theory being that if the part is not as designed then being off nominal, even if it's within tolerance, is potentially causing some cost or issue even if it's not apparent immediately. 

Vs "that'll do" almost everywhere else.

[artdjones]

15 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I've discussed this with colleagues at work, apparently the Japanese way is to keep focusing on making all parts closer and closer to nominal dimensions. The theory being that if the part is not as designed then being off nominal, even if it's within tolerance, is potentially causing some cost or issue even if it's not apparent immediately. 

Vs "that'll do" almost everywhere else.

Toyota Europe must have extremely strict QC on bought in components. From my experience preparing them for sale, the Corolla E12 hardly seemed to need any mechanical rectification. Out of dozens that came in for sale and service I can hardly ever remember replacing a ball joint or shock absorber. The only fault that sometimes happened was sticking brake calipers. Same with the E11, except the common fault there was bad bushes in the rear axle location arms.

I couldn't say that for Focuses or Astras, and definitely not for the Mk5 Golf.

[motorpunk]

Full day at work. All evening doing research. Am tired. Some tiny snippets; Robbo left his first wife who complained that he was  “moody, and always going on about communism and reading books about Lenin”.  No surprise there. I had two home addresses for him but now find he lived in half a dozen places in the Black Country and drank in a boozer called The Trumpet which I’m delighted to find is still open. I also found he had a twin brother who was a union bigwig long after Derek was fired. And another brother called Benny who he didn’t see eye-to-eye with as Benny wasn’t in the same union and just went to work regardless of union action. Of the 400+ strikes he was blamed for, he claims he only started 2. Having read a flipping mountain of factory records lately, I’m inclined to believe him. I’ve also spoken to some incredible people (can’t really name them yet) and am meeting a few more soon. 

[lesapandre]

"You're moody, and always going on about communism and reading books about Lenin”. 

(There is probably a movie script in this you know.)

[RIP Terry Jones - always missed.]

[lesapandre]

Given his strong socialist views did he ever run for public office outside the unions - ie as a Councillor or even MP?

[artdjones]

5 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Given his strong socialist views did he ever run for public office outside the unions - ie as a Councillor or even MP?

I believe he stood for Parliament four times.

5 hours ago, lesapandre said:

You're moody, and always going on about communism and reading books about Lenin

A salutary warning to people thinking they can change their spouse once they are married.

[warch]

It’s worth bearing in mind that Communism was quite popular in the UK during much of the 20th century, especially with working class people. 

My Grandmother was as far as I can tell a lifelong member of the UK Communist Party. 

[motorpunk]

7 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Given his strong socialist views did he ever run for public office outside the unions - ie as a Councillor or even MP?

[High Jetter]

11 hours ago, motorpunk said:

drank in a boozer called The Trumpet

Bilston? Have been in a few times, some cracking jazz sessions there.

[Missy Charm]

On 20/01/2025 at 22:35, plasticvandan said:

My grandad worked at Longbridge during the mid 70s,believe he was quality control.on the allegro line... Traveled up from Worcester for the night shift in his sandglow maxi (the only bl cars he drove were maxis,maybe he knew something...) on his first night he was introduced to the foreman,who apparently as the first thing he said was " what drink do you like? We have tea,coffee,hot chocolate, it's ok someone will come around and wake you up when it's clocking out time"

Think he was called out to strike three times before he left tomwork at Carmichael fire engines,where I did my apprenticeship some 30 years later.

My dad's 54 Austin Somerset was bought new direct from the factory by a union convenor,who lived next door to robbos parents.

Certain things never change.  I once did an agency shift at a printworks which involved turning up and being congratulated (sincerely) by the nice foreman for having arrived early; then being told to make myself a cup of tea and report to the outdoor smoking area for a fag, cuppa and chinwag with the other girls and boys of the place; and then, about an hour later, finally being given instructions to do something.  The something involved 'looking after' a machine that had no visible moving parts, whose sole function appeared to be spitting folded-and-stapled magazines out onto a roller conveyor for conveyance to a bundling and strapping machine and then onwards to packing.  My machine performed its task flawlessly.  

After about half an hour, a forklift driver came round to my position with a pile of pallets, dumped them and said 'for you to sit on'.  Half an hour later the foreman appeared and told me to go and have another cup of tea and cigarette.  On return, and already half deranged with boredom, I found some magazines in a reject bin nearby and started reading them.  

A short while later, the foreman told me to go and have lunch 'no need to rush back'.  Eventually, and after several more management-mandated breaks, the shift ended and I went to get my timesheet signed.  I felt terrible, having done nothing all day and feared a bawling out.  Instead, the foreman congratulated me on a job well done and said he'd sort out more work for me at the place.  He did!

Conversely, I've had factory jobs where it was necessary to work like a dog.  Never minded them, though.  In some ways it was better than my later employment as a secretary (or 'administrator' as we now refer to our friends in the office).  

Doesn't help @motorpunk, but keep on - all this is fascinating.  

[comfortablynumb]

If it's industrial relations anyone is interested in, there's a book called 'Rivethead' by Ben Hamper, interesting insight into the American vehicle industry.

Sorry, no use to the op at all.

[plasticvandan]

Could easily start another topic on workplace experiences,I've been at some places where the them and us attitude was so toxic it was like being in a Victorian mill,others where the laziness and apathy were so extreme that you wondered how long you would get away with it. One place the factory owner bollocked me for taking my own bin out to empty "your not paid to do that,the stores man is" 

[lesapandre]

I'm assuming you are off to the National Records Office. There is bound to be a lot there on the political angle on this. I'd have thought there would also have been MI5 involvement- if the files are declassified.

Did he have contacts with the Soviet Union, trips etc?

There is the very outside chance he was spying or working for the Soviet Union or indeed was a double agent spying on them.

'From Longbridge With Love'

'The Man with the Golden Farina'

'Allegros are Forever'

'Goldmarina'

'Quarticpussy'

But probably he was just a nice man with unfulfilled high ideals really working in the wrong industry. 

[Rocket88]

1 hour ago, comfortablynumb said:

If it's industrial relations anyone is interested in, there's a book called 'Rivethead' by Ben Hamper, interesting insight into the American vehicle industry.

Sorry, no use to the op at all.

Read it sometime ago…. Excellent 

[motorpunk]

2 hours ago, lesapandre said:

But probably he was just a nice man with unfulfilled high ideals really working in the wrong industry. 

I think that, so far, this is my overall opinion of Robbo. There’s some political twists and other characters intermingled with this story, which add a certain dimension, but I won’t spoil the book with that at this point.

[timolloyd]

4 hours ago, lesapandre said:

 

'Quarticpussy'

😂😂😂😂😂

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, motorpunk said:

I think that, so far, this is my overall opinion of Robbo. There’s some political twists and other characters intermingled with this story, which add a certain dimension, but I won’t spoil the book with that at this point.

Wife (Irish parents, born & raised in Wolverhampton) suggests you contact the Irish Society in Brum, as some would have worked there.

[HMC]

7 hours ago, lesapandre said:

I'm assuming you are off to the National Records Office. There is bound to be a lot there on the political angle on this. I'd have thought there would also have been MI5 involvement- if the files are declassified.

Did he have contacts with the Soviet Union, trips etc?

There is the very outside chance he was spying or working for the Soviet Union or indeed was a double agent spying on them.

'From Longbridge With Love'

'The Man with the Golden Farina'

'Allegros are Forever'

'Goldmarina'

'Quarticpussy'

But probably he was just a nice man with unfulfilled high ideals really working in the wrong industry. 

Moonraker (blue)

[Pieman]

8 hours ago, lesapandre said:

'From Longbridge With Love'

'The Man with the Golden Farina'

'Allegros are Forever'

'Goldmarina'

'Quarticpussy'

Radweld Is Not Enough?

[lesapandre]

'Tomorrow Never Starts'