Did you work at Longbridge? Rover stories. Red Robbo things.

6,049 · January 1

On 15/12/2024 at 06:17, New POD said:

For the first 5 years of our married life, we lived in Rednal. Every other house in the street had someone that worked at Longbridge (The Austin)

Also every other car in the street had alloys that it shouldn't have had.

Wife worked for a while on a cystic fibrosis ward, and I used to pick up.up from work after a late shift and talk to a lad who worked there in maintenance as a bulb replacer. His job (when he wasn't ill) was to walk around the factory with a trolley containing light bulbs and replace any light bulbs that had gone out.

We had them in Ford and Honda 🤣🤣🤣.

6,812 · January 1

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

The A-Series isn't really that durable. The cars they were fitted to just never really saw any massive mileage. Also they were crude, which makes them robust. An A-series will run even when it's utterly buggered, which is what gives them a durable/reliable reputation. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that they are an old/low technology engine, which by it's very nature will make it less fragile.

Also, JCB are nowhere. Not when compared to the likes of Komatsu, Caterpillar, Hitachi and various others. Also, having seen the company from the inside, I'd never want to buy their product or work for them.

A genuine question for you.In what year did you own,or drive your first car with an A Series engine?PM me if you like.Not trying to belittle you,but sadly, I'm old enough to remember when Minis,1100s etc. were available new,and the British alternatives were all much of a muchness.The small Vauxhall engine,the Ford Kent engine,the Avenger engine.The small Standard Triumph one.The Imp engine dared to break the mould,but gained a poor reputation.The others just about outlived the cars they were fitted in, perhaps gaining a second life in another if they were lucky.If you weren't there, it's hard to understand just how poor everything was in the Red Robbo years, compared to modern day stuff.One of the last companies to adopt a 12 month,12000 mile warranty was Rolls Royce,who at first claimed it would bankrupt the company!

Regarding JCB,well I still don't think they're doing too badly.Very good at self publicity They're making money for the owners and providing employment.What else should they do? British Leyland only managed to do one of those things.

17,233 · January 1

23 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

A genuine question for you.In what year did you own,or drive your first car with an A Series engine?

What on earth has that got to do with the price of fish?

I've driven and worked on more A-series engines than I can recall. I am sure others have driven/worked on more of them than I have, but I've had plenty of experience.

The fact that you could still buy a car with a new A-Series engine in the late 90s, an engine that had been introduced in 1951, and even then was a mild work-over of a previous design is pretty woeful, and just screams "we have no money for development". Which they didn't. Given that even in the mid-late 80s, most manufacturers had moved on to Aluminium heads, overhead cams, fuel injection, etc. the fact that BL were still churning out the utter porridge that is the A-series speaks volumes. And who bought it? yep, all the old people who fondly remember the A-series in everything they had owned for the last 30 years.

Many other manufacturers would have had about 3 or 4 generations of engines in the same time-period, each one an improvement on the last. I know the A-series was marginally warmed over several times in it's life, but there's no denying that it was past it's sell-by date by the 1980s.

and I still love the fact that you could buy a Mini and a Montego both with an A-series. That must have been quite the disappointment for everyone when the new Maestro and Montego came onto the market. "Woo! new car from BL. What's powering it? Oh. The same old heap that's been powering every Austin and Morris since just after the war. Brilliant".

6,812 · January 1

30 minutes ago, Talbot said:

What on earth has that got to do with the price of fish?

I've driven and worked on more A-series engines than I can recall. I am sure others have driven/worked on more of them than I have, but I've had plenty of experience.

The fact that you could still buy a car with a new A-Series engine in the late 90s, an engine that had been introduced in 1951, and even then was a mild work-over of a previous design is pretty woeful, and just screams "we have no money for development". Which they didn't. Given that even in the mid-late 80s, most manufacturers had moved on to Aluminium heads, overhead cams, fuel injection, etc. the fact that BL were still churning out the utter porridge that is the A-series speaks volumes. And who bought it? yep, all the old people who fondly remember the A-series in everything they had owned for the last 30 years.

Many other manufacturers would have had about 3 or 4 generations of engines in the same time-period, each one an improvement on the last. I know the A-series was marginally warmed over several times in it's life, but there's no denying that it was past it's sell-by date by the 1980s.

But the whole point of this thread is motorpunks book about Red Robbo, who's career and influence at BL ended in 1979.When you could buy a new MK2 Escort,Avenger/Sunbeam,Chevette,Triumph Dolomite/Spitfire,using the engines I mentioned.The point I was trying to make,is that in its day,the A Series was quite competitive and had a good reputation for reliability.Hence my question,and I do believe you "had to be there",to get the full appreciation.Most were,as you say,finished by the early eighties,but strangely, the Kent engine evolved into the Valencia and later Dura something or other,which actually outlived the A (+)Series by some years in the Ka and Fiesta.Had a 2000 Fiesta with one in,and it was a rough old thing!All interesting stuff to look back on and it's amazing the power unions did have,in those years,not just in the motor industry, either.

17,233 · January 1

5 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

the whole point of this thread

was to do with whether you worked at Longbridge in the 70s. I didn't, (was somewhat too young to do so!) but I learned a LOT from someone who worked there for about 20 years and was happy to then talk about it another 20 years later after it had all closed and he wasn't going to get into any grief for discussing just how badly built most of their output was. Which it clearly was if they couldn't even be bothered to use a torque wrench on something as critical as head studs or flywheel bolts.

12,450 · January 2

You both make interesting points, my experience of quality control at Rover and elsewhere was what sort of kick-started my writing ‘career’. It’s interesting to compare how good/bad things were in different plants at that time. I’m focussing on Red Robbo and his influence on the industry as the human element in these stories is often fascinating.

6,812 · January 2

My first experience of the A Series was the Austin Se7en,my dad bought new in 1960.The engine was perfectly reliable and was still going strong when the body dissolved.My first A Series ownership experience was a 1970 Austin 1300GT,bought in 1974,so probably built in Longbridge.Whoever had tightened the nuts and bolts on the engine up,had done a good job as once again it was the best bit on the car!Same old story with the various mid eighties Metros my son and I ran in the nineties.Not using a torque wrench sounds OMG horrific nowadays to a mechanically sensitive soul,but maybe just maybe,looking at things in the light of the times,it didn't matter so much.Like I say,unless you were there, trying to keep them running as daily drivers,rather than classic cars,it's difficult to appreciate just how crap by modern standards,ALL mainstream 70s British cars were and I don't think Leyland were much worse than the rest.All good stuff to talk about,though,and looking forward to the book. Maybe one day there'll be Red Robbo,The Musical!Well there was Made in Dagenham!You heard it here first....

6,812 · January 2

9 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

My first experience of the A Series was the Austin Se7en,my dad bought new in 1960.The engine was perfectly reliable and was still going strong when the body dissolved.My first A Series ownership experience was a 1970 Austin 1300GT,bought in 1974,so probably built in Longbridge.Whoever had tightened the nuts and bolts on the engine up,had done a good job as once again it was the best bit on the car!Same old story with the various mid eighties Metros my son and I ran in the nineties.Not using a torque wrench sounds OMG horrific nowadays to a mechanically sensitive soul,but maybe just maybe,looking at things in the light of the times,it didn't matter so much.Like I say,unless you were there, trying to keep them running as daily drivers,rather than classic cars,it's difficult to appreciate just how crap by modern standards,ALL mainstream 70s British cars were and I don't think Leyland were much worse than the rest.All good stuff to talk about,though,and looking forward to the book. Maybe one day there'll be Red Robbo,The Musical!Well there was Made in Dagenham!You heard it here first....

We could call it "Everyones torquing about Derek"! Sorry........!

12,450 · January 4

On 02/01/2025 at 17:26, Dobloseven said:

We could call it "Everyones torquing about Derek"! Sorry........!

Ha.

”Looking for the real Red Robbo” is the title. The ‘looking for’ element gives me space to make the search element part of the story. It worked well in my “Looking for the real Weasel” book. The fact is I’m unlikely to meet Robbo’s sole surviving relative (daughter) as she’s impossible to find. I know her name and approximate age and can guess an area she lives in. I’m off to flyer a few town notice boards and cross my fingers I’ll get a reply but am not optimistic.

6,812 · January 4

11 minutes ago, motorpunk said:

Ha.

”Looking for the real Red Robbo” is the title. The ‘looking for’ element gives me space to make the search element part of the story. It worked well in my “Looking for the real Weasel” book. The fact is I’m unlikely to meet Robbo’s sole surviving relative (daughter) as she’s impossible to find. I know her name and approximate age and can guess an area she lives in. I’m off to flyer a few town notice boards and cross my fingers I’ll get a reply but am not optimistic.

Yes,I found the searching part fascinating.I might do one myself", Looking for the real motorpunk"!

19,664 · January 4

On 01/01/2025 at 22:13, Talbot said:

What on earth has that got to do with the price of fish?

I've driven and worked on more A-series engines than I can recall. I am sure others have driven/worked on more of them than I have, but I've had plenty of experience.

The fact that you could still buy a car with a new A-Series engine in the late 90s, an engine that had been introduced in 1951, and even then was a mild work-over of a previous design is pretty woeful, and just screams "we have no money for development". Which they didn't. Given that even in the mid-late 80s, most manufacturers had moved on to Aluminium heads, overhead cams, fuel injection, etc. the fact that BL were still churning out the utter porridge that is the A-series speaks volumes. And who bought it? yep, all the old people who fondly remember the A-series in everything they had owned for the last 30 years.

Many other manufacturers would have had about 3 or 4 generations of engines in the same time-period, each one an improvement on the last. I know the A-series was marginally warmed over several times in it's life, but there's no denying that it was past it's sell-by date by the 1980s.

and I still love the fact that you could buy a Mini and a Montego both with an A-series. That must have been quite the disappointment for everyone when the new Maestro and Montego came onto the market. "Woo! new car from BL. What's powering it? Oh. The same old heap that's been powering every Austin and Morris since just after the war. Brilliant".

The great thing about the A series is that overheating it, by loosing all the coolant rarely resulted in anything more than a head gasket change which was retrospectively a piece of piss.

11,075 · January 4

Well worth a read @motorpunk to get an insight of Longbridge through the eras. A maddening mix of genius and mediocrity, attention to detail and "thatll do".

12,450 · January 5

More homework. This is mainly Cowley but WOW what a madhouse that place was.

14,198 · January 5

11 minutes ago, motorpunk said:

More homework. This is mainly Cowley but WOW what a madhouse that place was.

I think I read that years ago, stirring stuff

19,720 · January 6

On 04/01/2025 at 12:22, motorpunk said:

Ha.

”Looking for the real Red Robbo” is the title. The ‘looking for’ element gives me space to make the search element part of the story. It worked well in my “Looking for the real Weasel” book. The fact is I’m unlikely to meet Robbo’s sole surviving relative (daughter) as she’s impossible to find. I know her name and approximate age and can guess an area she lives in. I’m off to flyer a few town notice boards and cross my fingers I’ll get a reply but am not optimistic.

Have you read 'The Quest for Corvo'. It's the first classic in this 'searching for' genre. Written in the 1930's.

6,812 · January 8

Been at home incarcerated and bored,so reading a few bits on ARonline about his final days at BL.Would seem they carried on paying him for a while after he was sacked.Then it seems the strikes fizzled out, people went back to work and he seemed to be forgotten.Sounds as if he was convinced he'd have a lot more support than he did, it's mentioned that he hoped export cars would be stopped from leaving the country at the docks for example. Interesting you mention the humble homes he lived in.A good few years back,I did a job for an old boy,who lived in a small council,or perhaps ex council house in a not particularly pleasant area.Everything was grubby and nicotine stained and he was in poor health.Got chatting,I always say everyone has a story in them and there's no such thing as a boring person.Tells me he was Shop Convenor at a large,now moved company making parts that would have been used in Leyland cars.I mentioned the name of another elderly customer who had been a manager there and it became immediately apparent they were old enemies. He'd obviously been very militant but proudly told me he'd never led the men out on strike over money,only principles.The ex manager had a much better lifestyle,but scratch below the surface and they had much in common.Both widowed,had daughters that cared about them and sons who had been naughty boys. Eventually I put them in touch with each other and they had a good chat about the old days and made their peace.Both no longer with us now,dying not long after each other.

12,450 · January 8

I send a lot of speculative emails and letters during my research, and don’t often get a reply. Today when I was walking home in the dark the phone rang. “Are you the man who is writing about Derek Robinson? I’m Ken Loach*.” Turns out they were acquaintances and I don’t want to give the game away but I got some great insight from him today on Red Robbo.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Loach

6,812 · January 8

Hurry up with the book.I'm housebound at the moment and need a good read!

6,812 · January 8

Just waiting for you to tell us he drove a Toyota Starlet in his later life!

14,198 · January 8

11 minutes ago, motorpunk said:

I send a lot of speculative emails and letters during my research, and don’t often get a reply. Today when I was walking home in the dark the phone rang. “Are you the man who is writing about Derek Robinson? I’m Ken Loach*.” Turns out they were acquaintances and I don’t want to give the game away but I got some great insight from him today on Red Robbo.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Loach

What a great contact to have! Might he know a researcher who could find the daughter for you?

1,245 · January 8

Its only vaguely related to the op but my driving instructor worked at the Leyland trucks Bathgate plant in ghe 70s and early 80s.

He told me about his 1st day. Him and his mate were the only time served new starts so they were sent out into the truck park with a couple of bottle jacks and tools because a shop steward had deliberately fitted the seals in the wheel cylinders the wrong way round! He done it cos the managers at the factory reported him to the union for drinking at lunchtime!

There is a depressing looking housing estate near where the factory was, because most workers were at home on strike it was not unusual to visit a house in the area to find metallic blue bathrooms, gloss brown livingrooms or brand new truck cabs converted into sheds or greenhouses! 😄

The college I attended on day release as an apprentice had been built to train apprentices for the factory so the stores were jammed full of old Leyland stuff which was great for me as my 1st car was a mini. (Brings back memories messing about with timing weights and valve clearances then testing it on a state of the art bosch rolling road!)

4,221 · January 9

39 minutes ago, delux said:

There is a depressing looking housing estate near where the factory was, because most workers were at home on strike it was not unusual to visit a house in the area to find metallic blue bathrooms, gloss brown livingrooms or brand new truck cabs converted into sheds or greenhouses! 😄

An old boy I knew would tell stories about the place back in the day and he mentioned houses painted out inside, all of it nicked from the factory.

3,852 · January 9

I started my working life in the mid 80's. I worked in the UK and in Germany, mostly in casual manufacturing jobs.

German factories were clean, well-organised and well-equipped. Machinery was up to date and well looked after, and even then there was an awareness of health and safety. I worked as a quality controller for a while: everything we produced was measured and had to meet DIN norms, which I remember looking up in a massive book of tables and figures. Although the pay was nothing special, you were treated with respect. People were polite to each other: the office based staff and 'management' treated shop floor staff as colleagues and friends, and there was no particular hierarchy. You were mostly left to get on with your job, and trusted to do it well. You were expected to put the work in, but the feeling was that we were all in this together - it was a good place to work, I made many friends and had good times.

The UK workplaces were a different story. A couple stand out: Express Dairies in Crediton, and the Royal Mail. I don't remember working anywhere especially nice. Facilities were usually decrepit, dirty and sometimes dangerous. The dairy was horrible - no H&S at all, a dirty, stinking and dangerous place to work and the pay a pittance. We were treated like shit - shouted and sworn at by foremen, allowed hawkishly-watched statutory minimum breaks which we had to spend in a fag smoke filled portakabin in the car park. The machinery was knackered and production relied on humans doing repetitive, boring tasks for 12 hrs a shift rather than buying a relatively simple machine. Everyone there seemed angry and dysfunctional: no-one spoke on their breaks; just sat, smoked and read the Sun.

Royal Mail was better, but only because the nastiness was tempered by overwhelming bureaucracy. The facilities and equipment were still dilapidated, dirty and a mess. We were still seen as dispensable workers, but management mostly took no interest as long as the job more or less got done. I quite liked it, mostly because it was a far less oppressive place to work and with less risk of being killed or maimed, but it was crazily inefficient. No-one had really thought about the easiest and most effective way to do anything, and the impact of Thatcherism seemed mostly to have come in everyone's total lack of pride in their job and workplace along with zero investment in anything.

Later on, as a graduate, I did some casual interpreting. One job was for a firm in Kidderminster who made trailers for articulated lorries. They were meeting with a client or agent from Germany, and one major issue was the way the trailers were delivered from the UK to him. The British company insisted on stacking them 3 high for transport, which led to the bottom trailers being damaged. The German agent or customers were expected to carry out the necessary repairs, and obviously they weren't very happy with this arrangement. There was no way I could make the UK company boss see the German's point of view - the savings made by the stacking outweighed everything else. I think the trailer company might have been Lawrence David, but can't find any record of them being in Kidderminster.

So there you go. The fate of BL was no great surprise to anyone who'd worked in UK manufacturing in that period, I suspect.

11,717 · January 9

13 minutes ago, N Dentressangle said:

I started my working life in the mid 80's. I worked in the UK and in Germany, mostly in casual manufacturing jobs.

German factories were clean, well-organised and well-equipped. Machinery was up to date and well looked after, and even then there was an awareness of health and safety. I worked as a quality controller for a while: everything we produced was measured and had to meet DIN norms, which I remember looking up in a massive book of tables and figures. Although the pay was nothing special, you were treated with respect. People were polite to each other: the office based staff and 'management' treated shop floor staff as colleagues and friends, and there was no particular hierarchy. You were mostly left to get on with your job, and trusted to do it well. You were expected to put the work in, but the feeling was that we were all in this together - it was a good place to work, I made many friends and had good times.

The UK workplaces were a different story. A couple stand out: Express Dairies in Crediton, and the Royal Mail. I don't remember working anywhere especially nice. Facilities were usually decrepit, dirty and sometimes dangerous. The dairy was horrible - no H&S at all, a dirty, stinking and dangerous place to work and the pay a pittance. We were treated like shit - shouted and sworn at by foremen, allowed hawkishly-watched statutory minimum breaks which we had to spend in a fag smoke filled portakabin in the car park. The machinery was knackered and production relied on humans doing repetitive, boring tasks for 12 hrs a shift rather than buying a relatively simple machine. Everyone there seemed angry and dysfunctional: no-one spoke on their breaks; just sat, smoked and read the Sun.

Royal Mail was better, but only because the nastiness was tempered by overwhelming bureaucracy. The facilities and equipment were still dilapidated, dirty and a mess. We were still seen as dispensable workers, but management mostly took no interest as long as the job more or less got done. I quite liked it, mostly because it was a far less oppressive place to work and with less risk of being killed or maimed, but it was crazily inefficient. No-one had really thought about the easiest and most effective way to do anything, and the impact of Thatcherism seemed mostly to have come in everyone's total lack of pride in their job and workplace along with zero investment in anything.

Later on, as a graduate, I did some casual interpreting. One job was for a firm in Kidderminster who made trailers for articulated lorries. They were meeting with a client or agent from Germany, and one major issue was the way the trailers were delivered from the UK to him. The British company insisted on stacking them 3 high for transport, which led to the bottom trailers being damaged. The German agent or customers were expected to carry out the necessary repairs, and obviously they weren't very happy with this arrangement. There was no way I could make the UK company boss see the German's point of view - the savings made by the stacking outweighed everything else. I think the trailer company might have been Lawrence David, but can't find any record of them being in Kidderminster.

So there you go. The fate of BL was no great surprise to anyone who'd worked in UK manufacturing in that period, I suspect.

Depressing. I did a year at Royal Mail in 1987/8. The building wasn't too bad. TBF, it was quite possible to speak to the managers just by sticking your head around the door and engaging in conversation, so all in all not a terrible place to work. Likewise British Gas, where I worked for two years. So it wasn't all bad back then.

8,181 · January 9

33 minutes ago, N Dentressangle said:

Royal Mail was better, but only because the nastiness was tempered by overwhelming bureaucracy. The facilities and equipment were still dilapidated, dirty and a mess. We were still seen as dispensable workers, but management mostly took no interest as long as the job more or less got done. I quite liked it, mostly because it was a far less oppressive place to work and with less risk of being killed or maimed, but it was crazily inefficient. No-one had really thought about the easiest and most effective way to do anything, and the impact of Thatcherism seemed mostly to have come in everyone's total lack of pride in their job and workplace along with zero investment in anything.

Hah! I was at Parcel Force in Luton 1999/2000 and you have just described it to a 'T'
Rock in at 5am for a bonus to unload/rack the overnight container lorry deliveries. Load your own van and then piss off into the wild blue yonder until around 3pm or so.
Before 9am delivery stuff was a 50p bonus and you had to ring those in from a call box by around 9.15am to qualify - everything* was delivered on time as a result.

(One guy had the hospital pharmacy/dispensary on his route and if he was off everybody wanted it as there'd be 25 plus before 9am deliveries each morning - easy money)

Building was dire and a nightmare at loading time as everybody wanted to be in, under cover, and not out in the yard.

6,218 · January 9

On 01/01/2025 at 14:15, MrBig said:

And if the last brand new “British” car I bought back in 2018 is anything to go by they are still shit.

All of my current fleet were built in the UK (Solihull, Ellesmere Port, Hinkley and Sunderland). None of them is in any way shit, the fact that two of them are 60 and 40 years old and none are cossetted or garaged tells you a lot about that.

On 01/01/2025 at 20:36, Talbot said:

The A-Series isn't really that durable. The cars they were fitted to just never really saw any massive mileage. Also they were crude, which makes them robust. An A-series will run even when it's utterly buggered, which is what gives them a durable/reliable reputation. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that they are an old/low technology engine, which by it's very nature will make it less fragile.

Also, JCB are nowhere. Not when compared to the likes of Komatsu, Caterpillar, Hitachi and various others. Also, having seen the company from the inside, I'd never want to buy their product or work for them.

I didn't really like the A series, but they were fairly robust (although I take the point about most of the host vehicles being scrapped inside ten years).

JCB are a mixed bag. Their large machines aren't really rated in the industry which favour Catapillar, Komatsu and if you've won the lottery Liebherr, so you rarely see 20 ton plus excavators anywhere. They do make decent telehandlers and materials handlers, the 9 ton wheeled 3CX and 4CX were good but no one uses them any more these days and the Fastrac tractor is pretty good.

I can't comment on the company itself apart from the Brexit thing, but I can well imagine they aren't great to work for.

12,450 · January 9

More to this than meets the eye…

18,946 · January 9

1 hour ago, warch said:

JCB are a mixed bag. Their large machines aren't really rated in the industry which favour Catapillar, Komatsu and if you've won the lottery Liebherr, so you rarely see 20 ton plus excavators anywhere.

My dad worked on the buildings from 1957 to when he “retired” at 67. Most of that time he was a machine driver, driving those excavators. Drove everything really. I have a photo of him somewhere from the mid-80’s working around Brindley Place but no idea of the machine. I need to dig it out for here I think!

I asked him once why didn’t he drive a JCB, he pulled a face like De Niro and said “you don’t get them on sites as they’re no good for big stuff”. He really really rated Hitachi and Kubota - I think Hitachi were his favourite. One firm he worked for had a Cat for a time but was found to be really unreliable in the mid 90’s.

1,511 · January 9

I have had the misfortune to have to work on JCB fast tracks, and have never worked on such a badly thought out piece of shit in my life!

12,450 · January 9

Found this. He stood three times in local elections. There’s no doubting his devotion to the communist cause.

Did you work at Longbridge? Rover stories. Red Robbo things.

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