1971 MGB GT - Effort + Expenditure = No Gain - see page 17

[N19]

On 06/11/2024 at 18:18, artdjones said:

Most of the work on welding up holes is prepping the holes and the patches to go into them. Wouldn't it be worth doing the prep yourself and getting a mobile welder to do the seams around the edge?

If I did that I'd be worried that a mobile welder would come and declare the prep inadequate, the patches wrongly cut etc.

Maybe if it was someone who knew their stuff when it came to welding but didn't have a machine, or if it was a friendly mates rates job, but otherwise I'd be worried about it ending up costing far more if my version of 'prep done and ready m9' was different to the welders.

[Westbay]

14 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Holy shit!!🤣 

Ive never seen that car before, but that’s absolutely incredible how much filler was on the thing! It must have weighed twice what it was supposed to! Why was there any need for so much?

Removed sunroof, welded 'hole' , distored roof panel = lots of puddin' 

[artdjones]

9 hours ago, N19 said:

If I did that I'd be worried that a mobile welder would come and declare the prep inadequate, the patches wrongly cut etc.

Maybe if it was someone who knew their stuff when it came to welding but didn't have a machine, or if it was a friendly mates rates job, but otherwise I'd be worried about it ending up costing far more if my version of 'prep done and ready m9' was different to the welders.

If the hole is cut back to where the edges are full thickness metal, and all paint and underseal removed for 50mm around on both sides, plus all trim  and flammable parts removed for 300mm around, and  the patches are the right thickness and a close fit in the holes, I can't see what else there would be to do. 

Like I said above, the prep is what takes the time.🙂

[Matty]

On 07/11/2024 at 19:59, Shite Ron said:

You didn’t dream it, I have that book somewhere:

As promised men!

[tooSavvy]

3 minutes ago, Matty said:

As promised men!

First book I ever had....  with pages stuck together 😉

🚙💨

[EyesWeldedShut]

Every house I can recall as a kid had the AA book plus one of these:

or one of these

[captain_70s]

On that note...

Looks like the rear of a Moggy Thousand front wing.

[EyesWeldedShut]

10 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

On that note...

Looks like the rear of a Moggy Thousand front wing.

My dad's one told me how to field strip the carb on a Suffolk Colt/Punch lawnmower. Better than YouTube any day

[Wibble]

8 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

My dad's one told me how to field strip the carb on a Suffolk Colt/Punch lawnmower. Better than YouTube any day

My Dad had that book and that mower. I have a later red covered copy, with colour.

[Matty]

43 minutes ago, tooSavvy said:

First book I ever had....  with pages stuck together 😉

🚙💨

Yeah filler will stick the pages together if it's on your fingers.

That is what you meant isn't it Sav? 🤣

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

On that note...

Looks like the rear of a Moggy Thousand front wing.

That Readers Digest book was probably largely responsible for my initial background knowledge/interest in how things work - along with Tim Hunkin's Secret Life of Machines series.

The one from my childhood was basically destroyed by the chronic damp issues we had at one of our houses.  I still have it, but the mould got to it and the binding has basically dissolved.  So was really glad to find an immaculate copy at a charity shop for a couple of quid a few years ago.

Pretty sure the text on my cover is black though.

[Homersimpson]

2 hours ago, Matty said:

 

Loving the MK2 Jag filler repair, if that has seat belts then that definitely wasn't an MOT standard repair even back then.   Come to think of it maybe the car in the pictures was one of the ones I ended up rebuilding as it had a huge amount of filler in it.

The worst one started off as being a bit bumpy from the rust pushing it out so I knocked a hole with a hammer:

A bit more prodding and it became this:

This is part of what came out, it was solid filler with no metal, mesh etc behind it.  A real 1970's work of art that you just have to respect.

[HMC]

2 hours ago, tooSavvy said:

First book I ever had....  with pages stuck together 😉

🚙💨

I absolutely love that book. My fave bits are well, all of it. Special mention to repairing a rotten jag mk2 sill with chicken wire and wob. OK it was a thing- but sanctioned / recommended and published by the AA? 😂🤡

[HMC]

The weird thing with the recommended approach is that it basically hides structural problems with the car, as recommended by the AA. Basically a dodgy car dealers go to in 1972 (iirc its publication date) OLD SKOOL. Next up- repair a coolant leak with an egg. (this was not recommended- perhaps suprisingly) Approved by the Automobile Association. 

How times change- by 2000 the AA were offering used car checks. Presumably a chicken wire and wob sill would be looked on nostalgically?

[juular]

6 hours ago, Homersimpson said:

Loving the MK2 Jag filler repair, if that has seat belts then that definitely wasn't an MOT standard repair even back then.   Come to think of it maybe the car in the pictures was one of the ones I ended up rebuilding as it had a huge amount of filler in it.

The worst one started off as being a bit bumpy from the rust pushing it out so I knocked a hole with a hammer:

A bit more prodding and it became this:

This is part of what came out, it was solid filler with no metal, mesh etc behind it.  A real 1970's work of art that you just have to respect.

Kudos on them not taking the easy way out and just welding it. 😄

[ETCHY]

14 hours ago, Matty said:

As promised men!

Glad I didn't dream it !

Does show though how folk just kept what they had going back then. A mentality still in place amongst many folk until relatively recently. Now the majority would just chuck it away if it were that shagged.

[2flags]

I must plead guilty to using newspaper, wob and 'structural' underseal to fix cars in the 70's and 80's. 😀

[Stinkwheel]

I may or may not know a local used car dealer that still does some excellent 'cold welding' repairs, they look pukka, even seemingly have a bead of weld around the perimeter of any repair. I know of a good few people he has helped out to get 'just one more MOT' before i scrap it

If you think those old school 1972 AA approved bodges are dead and gone and no longer fool MOT men, you'd be very wrong

[Peter C]

I've made a fair bit of progress with the MGB over the weekend.

As proposed, I have covered up corrosion with metal patches secured with adhesive and rivets. I spread the adhesive that squished out from the sides over the edges of the repair patches to seal the joints. I have overcoated all patches with Rust-Oleum paint. None of the patches are anywhere close to a suspension mount, jacking point, seatbelt mount or a major structural element (like a chassis leg, for example). The outer sills are 100% solid. The bottom edges of the sills are nice and straight, there is no evidence of any rust or previous repairs. The inner sills and floorpans have been coated with underseal in the past, which is rock hard. It would take days to hack off the old underseal, so I've left it alone. Poking the underseal did not reveal any crispy metal. Where the underseal had debonded from the metal, I have found plenty of surface corrosion but no rot. 

Whilst cleaning and preparing the underside for overcoating, I discovered previous welding around the rear spring hangers, back of the rear arches and along the bottoms of the front bulkhead, on both sides. Some of the welding isn't amazing but everything looks solid. 

Along the front, I have painted the front valance and tidied up a few areas where the paint had weathered.

Before painting:

After painting:

Chrome reinstated.

I did the same around the back. I straightened the damaged valance and filled a couple of small rust holes.

Before painting.

After painting with the bumper reinstated.

The fuel tank was affected by surface corrosion and horrible red overspray.

I cleaned up the corrosion and painted the fuel tank silver, to match the original colour.

Front arches.

Front valance, which I suspect is a replacement panel as it is immaculate (no rust).

Rear arches.

Floorpan and sills.

Whilst looking underneath the MGB, I noticed that the rear leaf springs are relatively new, as are some of the front suspension bushes. The fuel pump also looks brand new. The offside rear brake cylinder nipple is shiny and fresh and the clutch master cylinder is new. For a car that (presumably) has spent a long time in storage, it benefits from numerous new parts. Nice.

More soon.

 

[Wibble]

Amazing progress and so quickly. Wish I had your mojo it looking great.

[Peter C]

Over the past couple of afternoons and evenings I have made a bit more progress with the MGB.

I have re-sprayed the front and rear number plate plinths and refitted the plinths and, for now, the original yellow and white number plates. If the MGB turns out to be a keeper, it will be treated to a nice set of new black and white plates. Sorry @LightBulbFun

I have also repainted the rear MG badge.

I have refitted the radiator and associated brackets and hoses. I have put a bit of chemical metal on the broken thermostat housing, as I need the engine running on Saturday - see below.

I think that I've sorted the carburettor linkage problem. The issue that I had was that the two throttle return springs were already fully compressed but the rod that controlled the butterflies was not returning to idle position, causing a high idle. I have adjusted the linkage and everything LOOKS ok but I won't know for sure until I start the engine. 

I have also refitted the old (unpainted) air filter housings, which have lovely patina. 

I also spent a bit of time sorting out the interior, what's left of it.

I have removed the knackered electric aerial and associated wiring. I have removed the loose trim that should have been secured to the rear of the headlining. I have refitted the battery cover and worked out how the false boot floor should fit. All looks do-able but I have more important matters to attend to first.

I noticed something weird today. 

Oil has dripped from the half-shaft seal onto the bottom brake shoe and into the drum. This is definitely a new problem as the oil had not spread within the drum, which it would have done if the wheel had turned (when I drove the MGB into the garage, for example). But why? Why would this leak occur if the car has been static, up on axle stands, engine not run, axle / half-shafts all been static? Weird.

There is evidence of what looks like silicone sealant within the joint of the half-shaft and the outer flange. Someone has been here before. Fortunately, the one screw that secures the flange came undone easily. I wonder if there a seal between the half-shaft and the flange or if I need to replace the half-shaft seal located in the axle. The former sounds easy, the latter will probably involve me buying a slide hammer to get the half-shaft out.

The current to-do list is as follows:

• Saturday morning, bleed the brakes.
• Saturday afternoon, my auto-electrician friend is coming over to check why the ignition light stays on whilst the engine is running and why the rear lights and number plate lights don't work. I will need the engine running for this exercise. 
• Once I know whether the alternator is knackered, I will visit the Heathrow branch of Moss next week and buy all the bits I need, which will also include a new exhaust, front sidelight / indicator units, fan belt, pressure cap, thermostat, housing and gasket, seal/s for the rear axle and a steering wheel boss to enable me to fit a smaller steering wheel.
• With those parts fitted, I will have the MGB running, stopping, charging, not overheating and, hopefully, driving. 
• I will insure and tax it and take it for a maiden run. I am not expecting a trouble free run but at least I will know what else I will be up against. 
• Post test drive, if all is well, I will fit the bucket seats and repaint the Rostyles. 
• I will be keeping the interior minimalist but eventually I will get the radio working with a Bluetooth FM transmitter. 

Whilst the list of outstanding tasks is getting shorter, I am well aware that I still have much work to do. 

I can't wait to take the MGB for a drive. If everything works out, I will be on the road before Christmas. I couldn't ask for a nicer gift!

 

[Mr Pastry]

14 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I wonder if there a seal between the half-shaft and the flange or if I need to replace the half-shaft seal located in the axle.

TADTS.  There is, or should be, a paper gasket and a large O ring between the half shaft flange and the hub, and you can usually slide the shaft out quite easily, followed by more oil...  The hub seal itself would need a slide hammer to get the hub off for access, but they rarely give trouble.

Interestingly that is a banjo type axle from an earlier roadster model, not normally fitted to a GT, but don't worry about it.

[Matty]

Like this. Shit photo but the oring sits in the groove in the hub. Gasket sits over the top then the half shaft flange sits over the lot. Not the best idea but as long as the bit of oil getting out doesn't contaminate the brake shoes then worry little!

[Peter C]

I put a clean piece of cardboard on the floor yesterday. Today I found a couple of drips of oil on the cardboard.

Yep, there's definitely a leak.

The half-shaft pulled out very easily to reveal the bearing and hub.

And here's the culprit, a £1 (?) oil seal.

A previous owner put silicone between the half-shaft flange and the hub. I removed the hub to give it a clean.

I did the same with the half-shaft flange.

Hopefully a replacement gasket and seal will solve the problem.

More tomorrow.

 

[Peter C]

I've  made some decent progress with the MGB this weekend.

I know I said that I will fit the bucket seats and repaint the wheels post test drive but I had time to spare and wanted to get these chores out of the way.

I started on the driver's seat. First, I removed the runners from the original seat.

To get the runners to fit the bucket seat, I had to drill one hole per runner, nice and easy. I bought new nuts and bolts for all connections.

I arranged the seat in the correct position, marked up the location of the new fixing holes in the floorpan, drilled the new holes, cut holes in the old carpet and re-used the original timber spacers.

The driver's seat was in. Now that I knew exactly what I was doing, I had hoped that fitting the passenger seat would have been easier and quicker. Sadly not. I fitted the runners to the bucket seat, arranged the seat in the correct position, drilled holes for the front mounting bolts, put the new bolts in, went to slide the seat forward to enable me to do the same to the rear fixings but the transmission tunnel got in the way of the seat's journey forward. Turns out that the transmission tunnel is not the same shape on both sides. To get around this issue, I cut a couple of metal brackets and fixed them to the backs of the runners. By fitting the brackets, I extended the runners, making it possible to fit the seat in the correct position. The metal brackets are made of thicker steel than the runners and I have bolted each bracket with two new nuts and bolts, so no significant bodging done. With a bit of jiggery and pokery, I got the passenger seat in place.

And job done. 

I haven't asked my wife to reupholster the squabs yet as I didn't want her to go to all that trouble only for me to find that the seats don't fit. I had to locate the runners on both sides a little further forward from the original positions to get around the large crossmember that extends beneath the floor and, on the driver's side, I had to shorten one bolt so it doesn't interfere with a brake pipe. 

I will keep the original seats and all associated nuts and bolts, so that if I come to sell the MGB, the next owner will have the option of putting the interior back to original specification.

I think the bucket seats look cool. The condition of the seats is commensurate with the rest of the interior. A new pair of seats wouldn't work as well. Surprisingly, I can get in and out with the large diameter original steering wheel in place, although it's not a graceful act. A replacement, smaller, steering wheel will make entry and exit easier. Once in, the driving position is perfect. With the original seats in place, I found the driving position far too high. The bucket seats are fitted an inch or two lower and work a lot better. 

My auto-electrician friend turned up yesterday and checked over the MGB's electrics. Fortunately, he managed to do all the tests without having to fire up the engine, which would have made a lot of noise with a blowing exhaust that is barely attached.

The reason why the ignition light stays on when the engine is running is due to a knackered alternator / regulator. I have removed the alternator and my friend will overhaul it next week.

The lack of brake lights is due to a defective brake light switch. Easy fix.

The lack of tail lights is due to corroded connections within the fuse box. Another easy fix.

With my wife's help, I bled the brakes and now have a decent hard pedal. 

Finally, I spent a bit of time tarting up the Rostyles. 

All four wheels are straight with no kerbing to the rims, they just needed paint.

I rubbed down the paint, applied two coats of matt black to the centres.

Then I painted the silver bits with Hammerite.

I need to touch up the black in a couple of areas where the silver paint had strayed from the brush but overall, I am happy with the finish. 

I didn't bother doing the spare (far right in the photo).

I need new tyres, I know!

A previous owner painted the rear brake drums red. Pointless and ugly. 

I painted the drums with a high temperature enamel paint, colour black.

Finally, I am soaking the wheel nuts in paraffin overnight, perhaps they will clean up a bit.

All being well, I will be visiting Moss on Tuesday to buy the bits that I need, then I can make further progress.

More soon.

 

[Peter C]

Let's just say that my £2,500 budget, which includes the MGB's purchase price, has just been smashed. Read on. 

Firstly, tyres. I took the Rostyles to a tried and tested tyre shop in Maidenhead. The guy really knows his wheels and tyres. He removed the old (tubeless) tyres and found inner tubes fitted and significant corrosion on the inside of the rims. He will clean up the rims, wrap them with gaffer tape, install new inner tubes and fit the new tyres. Total cost, £360. The choice of budget 165R 14 tyres is quite limited and I've gone for these, which have decent reviews and the sidewalls look period.

Next, I went to Moss Europe to buy everything I need to get the MGB back on the road.

With the exception of the exhaust system, everything was in stock and looks correct.

I took my old exhaust with me to ensure that I go away with the right bits. Turns out that the mid and rear boxes that were supposed to fit were not the right parts.

The only exhaust that looked right had the downpipe welded to the front section.

I didn't really have much choice as the old exhaust is pretty knackered, so I bought the complete exhaust and whilst there, I also bought a new set of manifold to downpipe rings, nuts and bolts, as I expected that the old nuts and bolts would be scrap. I wasn't wrong, read on!

The old, significantly shorter, exhaust just about fitted in my Qashqai. I got the new exhaust in the car but part of it had to hang out from the front passenger window.

Unfortunately, I chose one of the coldest days of the year to drive 29 miles via the M3, M25 and M40 back home.

At speeds over 55MPH, the ice cold flow of air via the open window overwhelmed the heater, which was set to the highest possible temperature and fan speed.

It was fucking cold in that car. Luckily, hypothermia is not a terminal condition.

Once I got home and defrosted, I had a look under the MGB, at the manifold to downpipe joint. One bolt was already broken and the five other nuts were not budging. Who would have thought! 

I had to get the carbs off to access the exhaust manifold bolts.

The manifold wouldn't exit the engine bay downwards and the downpipe wouldn't fit through between the engine and the inner wing. 

I ended up cutting the downpipe with a grinder.

Exhaust manifold and what was left of the downpipe were carefully inspected on my workbench.

There was no point in grinding the old nuts off, as the bolts are completely rusted and useless.

I've ended up buying a replacement, refurbished, exhaust manifold for £95 plus £15 p&p.

As matters stand, the MGB owes me:

• Car - £1,950
• Paints - £99
• Tyres - £360
• Bits from Moss - £325
• Exhaust manifold - £110
• Centre caps for the wheels and other bits and bobs - about £50

Total so far - £2,900

Bugger.

More soon.

[danthecapriman]

Glad you didn’t freeze to death😅!

That budget thing… your best of forgetting that when it comes to classic cars! There’s always always something else you’ll need or you’ll see something you want. 

[lesapandre]

On 10/11/2024 at 15:58, captain_70s said:

On that note...

Looks like the rear of a Moggy Thousand front wing.

Yes there was also a book in wide circulation - AA I think, that showed the rusty holed top of an Audax Hillman Minx front wing being hammered in and filled and sprayed. Would have lasted all of 6 months. Funny how these respected publications espoused absolute botchery.

Great MG write-up this thread. Thanks!

[Six-cylinder]

16 hours ago, Peter C said:

Let's just say that my £2,500 budget, which includes the MGB's purchase price, has just been smashed. Read on. 

Firstly, tyres. I took the Rostyles to a tried and tested tyre shop in Maidenhead. The guy really knows his wheels and tyres. He removed the old (tubeless) tyres and found inner tubes fitted and significant corrosion on the inside of the rims. He will clean up the rims, wrap them with gaffer tape, install new inner tubes and fit the new tyres. Total cost, £360. The choice of budget 165R 14 tyres is quite limited and I've gone for these, which have decent reviews and the sidewalls look period.

Next, I went to Moss Europe to buy everything I need to get the MGB back on the road.

With the exception of the exhaust system, everything was in stock and looks correct.

I took my old exhaust with me to ensure that I go away with the right bits. Turns out that the mid and rear boxes that were supposed to fit were not the right parts.

The only exhaust that looked right had the downpipe welded to the front section.

I didn't really have much choice as the old exhaust is pretty knackered, so I bought the complete exhaust and whilst there, I also bought a new set of manifold to downpipe rings, nuts and bolts, as I expected that the old nuts and bolts would be scrap. I wasn't wrong, read on!

The old, significantly shorter, exhaust just about fitted in my Qashqai. I got the new exhaust in the car but part of it had to hang out from the front passenger window.

Unfortunately, I chose one of the coldest days of the year to drive 29 miles via the M3, M25 and M40 back home.

At speeds over 55MPH, the ice cold flow of air via the open window overwhelmed the heater, which was set to the highest possible temperature and fan speed.

It was fucking cold in that car. Luckily, hypothermia is not a terminal condition.

Once I got home and defrosted, I had a look under the MGB, at the manifold to downpipe joint. One bolt was already broken and the five other nuts were not budging. Who would have thought! 

I had to get the carbs off to access the exhaust manifold bolts.

The manifold wouldn't exit the engine bay downwards and the downpipe wouldn't fit through between the engine and the inner wing. 

I ended up cutting the downpipe with a grinder.

Exhaust manifold and what was left of the downpipe were carefully inspected on my workbench.

There was no point in grinding the old nuts off, as the bolts are completely rusted and useless.

I've ended up buying a replacement, refurbished, exhaust manifold for £95 plus £15 p&p.

As matters stand, the MGB owes me:

• Car - £1,950
• Paints - £99
• Tyres - £360
• Bits from Moss - £325
• Exhaust manifold - £110
• Centre caps for the wheels and other bits and bobs - about £50

Total so far - £2,900

Bugger.

More soon.

It seems a more than reasonable investment, firstly to get a car you enjoy and then an uplift in value.

Yes you have put a lot of hours into it but that has keep you away from graffiting bus shelters and a police cell! 🤣

[Peter C]

I have made some good progress over the past few days.

The replacement exhaust manifold that I bought via eBay came from the same MG specialist that I bought the MGB from. Small world.

Looks good.

I did a dry run and the manifold and downpipe mated happily.

I had to re-use the exhaust manifold gasket but, fortunately, it looked ok.

I got the exhaust manifold and carbs back on without any problems.

Note the rubber connector that I fitted between the air filter housings. It was missing before.

With the exhaust manifold on, I aligned the exhaust and made the connection. Not fun, working upside down with bugger all space around the studs and nuts.

Moss Europe have a great database and parts store but they are killing our planet with packaging.

All these plastic bags....

For these few bits. Madness.

New exhaust fitted, with new hangers and nuts and bolts. Looks good.

The new tyres are fitted and I have given the Rostyles another coat of silver paint. They're ready to be re-fitted.

New axle seal and gasket purchased and fitted.

I found the MG logo badge under the original driver's seat. I glued it to the Mountney steering wheel boss.

And fitted the smaller steering wheel. 

I may buy another, better condition, steering wheel next time I visit Beaulieu but in the meantime I will enjoy the Mad Max vibes.

I've kept the original steering wheel and boss but it won't be re-fitted during my ownership of the MGB.

I replaced the oil and filter.

I replaced the thermostat, gasket and housing.

The housing looks a bit too bling, as does the new pressure cap. Not much I can do about that.

Moss Europe stock just about everything for MGs, including this obscure rubber pad that fits into a hole in the bulkhead.

The offside tail light is broken and I wasn't prepared to pay £40 for a replacement lens when complete units at autojumbles sell for £1.

I secured the bottom of the lens with a new bolt and washer, which I've concealed with some gaffer tape. It will do for now.

The old pedal rubbers definitely wouldn't pass an MoT.

The new ones would!

The original flasher unit has two pins, the new one has three. Apparently, the third pin is an earth. Is it?

I've fitted new front side light / indicator units and plumbed them into the loom.

I found a piece of grey rag, which I've cut and tucked under the seat squab material to conceal the tear and exposed foam.

Hopefully my wife will soon fabricate covers for the squabs.

I am collecting the new alternator tomorrow morning. The old one had knackered bearings and was completely burned out. Then I will attend to loose wiring and sort out the remaining electrical faults.

This afternoon I've insured the MGB, with Lancaster Insurance, fully comp, including business use, garaged, 3k miles a year limit... £122. Bargain. 

And I've taxed it too. Even bigger bargain!

Unfortunately, the weather forecast for this weekend is rain, rain and more rain, so it is highly unlikely that the MGB will be leaving my garage.

More soon.