The best everyday car to avoid modern cars?

[Lukas]

Hi friends!

 

I´m inspired by this posting here

 

I indulged myself with some beige this weekend and picked this beaut of a 205 up from eBay for a decent price.

I'm wondering if one of these might be the best way to avoid ever having to venture into the world of 'moderns'. Recent enough to have good parts supply, old enough for DIY, and they look good too. That looks proper-nice.

so I´d like to start a discussion on that topic!

 

I owned some modern and new cars until now, I have driven several modern and new cars and everytime I drive a new car again, I like the older ones better.

 

I would like to know if there is an ultimate car for avoiding modern cars on one hand but on the other hand you don´t need to drive a real old one.

 

So I think an ultimate older everyday-car must have/be:

 

* reasonably safe

* frugal because nobody knows how expensive fuel will get

* spare-parts must be available easily and cheap for a long time to come

* comfortable enough to withstand driving it everyday for years

* a good rust protection should help too

 

What comes to my mind? A Toyota Camry Turbo-D? No, bad rustprotection and no parts available, don´t talk about cheap parts. A Peugeot 205? My cousin had one, too uncomfortable and too small, for me at least. But cheap parts. Maybe a Volvo 700 or 900? Cheap parts, good rust protection, very reliable and dependable but not that good on fuel I´ve been told.

 

What to you suggest?

 

Sakul

[Pete-M]

Mk2 Golf GTi 8v would be my choice.

[fiatdaft]

1.8 petrol mk3 cavalier !

[wuvvum]

Volvo 940 TD. All the Volvo virtues with decent fuel economy on top. Plus a proper old-school diesel engine that you can fix with a hammer and that will run on any old crap you care to sling in the tank. Including up to 33% petrol, according to my LT35 handbook.Pug 405 TDs are a good bet too - they don't seem to rust too badly. Or a 605 if you need a bit more space - stick to the lower-end models to avoid electrical issues though.

[j-j]

* reasonably safe* frugal because nobody knows how expensive fuel will get Rolling Eyes* spare-parts must be available easily and cheap for a long time to come* comfortable enough to withstand driving it everyday for years* a good rust protection should help too

I'm thinking a 1.9 TD PSA dissler would be ideal. Obviously my choice would be of the Xantia persuasion so I can have cool suspension and brakes that work properly but a whole host of Pugs from the 205 upwards used it (well don't think the 205 1.9D was a turbo) Also, most 1.9XUD engined cars were low on the rust scale. As chatted about on other thread the 1.9D will also happily run on veg oil with frequent fuel filter changes.Iz me close to the answerz?

[Lukas]

How is the parts-supply situation on the early 90s cars from France? Reliability? My Camry is from 1988 and beside mechanical parts (that never break anyway ) you can´t get anything new from Toyota anymore. No lights, no panels (only stocks from other brands), no interieur-parts, nothing! And most other cars that may be ready for parting out are exported to Africa, so used parts are very hard to find too. That´s not the best condition for everyday-use the next years.

[Guest]

Sometimes you're alright with rare cars to be honest - the most practical car I've ever owned is probably my Galant.

 

 

Yeah it's quite difficult to get trim parts (though easily available in Australia), but any mechanical part seems to be up for sale at an amusing price. I was particularly pleased with getting an entire clutch kit with bearings for £15. Nice simple mechanicals too, anything that has gone wrong hasn't tended to be much trouble to sort out.

 

Admittedly it doesn't really cover any of the points listed, but you can work around it. Rust protection can be added, fuel costs you can just put up with and I've never been that bothered about safety I suppose.

[Cavcraft]

1.8 petrol mk3 cavalier !

+1Or Astra Mk3.

[lancashireclamper]

Posed a similar question here myself a few months ago and had many thought provoking replies.Think a good contender would be a Merc 190d, good ones are getting hard to find but the odd low mileage giffer type crops up every now and then.

[Lukas]

What about an Audi 100 C4? TDI maybe? But Audi seems to have problems with parts supply too, from what I heard from my local garage.

[garbaldy]

I'm thinking a 1.9 TD PSA dissler would be ideal. Obviously my choice would be of the Xantia persuasion so I can have cool suspension and brakes that work properly but a whole host of Pugs from the 205 upwards used it (well don't think the 205 1.9D was a turbo) Also, most 1.9XUD engined cars were low on the rust scale. As chatted about on other thread the 1.9D will also happily run on veg oil with frequent fuel filter changes.Iz me close to the answerz?

yup thats the way i would go but not a xantia as the fancy schmancy suspension could be a problem in the future,i bought an ex taxi 305 inastate that had been passed around a bit with a straight diesel that had covered over 800k miles and it still whent well enough, ive also had a 205 with 240k on it, so my vote would go in the pugs favour, the only problems with the higher milage cars is the seats and interiors get a bit knackered but i supose modern ones could be adapted to fit.another possability would be an early goff or pastit with the 1600cc td as they dont have all the electric gubins on the engine and can do intergalactic milages.

[mouseflakes]

Hey Lukas, as you might have guessed, I've also been thinking along these lines lately. From recent topics here and elsewhere it seems that normal servicing on modern vehicles will soon be impossible for the DIY-er (if it isn't already). Basic, reliable old motors might soon become quite sought after. Grab one now while they're cheap! A Camry like yours would be on my list. Like you, I'd want something large-ish. An 8-valve, manual Renault 25 should be pretty bomb-proof. Quite economical too. I've never sampled a 700 or 900 series Volvo - but I'm mighty tempted. Peugeot 505 (too expensive due to export value?) or a 405? 405 looks just a bit, well, dull. Citroen ZX TD a bit on the small side for me - but they seem to last and are dirt cheap. Early Espace keeps coming to mind too.

[Lukas]

I am not a DIY-man sadly, but repairs and maintenance on older cars is cheaper when done by a garage too. Just think about the plastic-headlights that get yellow/foggy and must be changed or the many and expensive problems with modern high-pressure engines. That´s my main intention behind these thoughts.A friend of mine owns a garage, he always says that new cars will become 20 and more years old too, but they will be a lot more expensive than the cars that now are between 15 and 20 years.

[retrogeezer]

Nissan Bluebird....CheapRust ResistantCheap Parts if you need anythingCheap to runBulletproof mechanics.Comfy inside with plenty of toys and loads of room.Tough in a crash (1000's of banger racers can't be wrong)

[Lukas]

Bluebirds are almost extinct here, they never sold in huge numbers and most of them are gone because of rust or to Africa.

[Volksy]

Volvo 850 2.0 20v. Nice 5 pot, trim a little fragile (for a Volvo), but go on for ever even when slightly abused. Saab 9-3 2.0S ('98 ish). A GM900 with the faults, of adapting the Chav floorpan to a slightly more interesting body, ironed out. Durable, only irritation is the insessant bings and bongs from everything you do wrong. Very practical, even in 3dr form. One car I really regret selling.or a Punto (cue flaming), fall apart, but keep going, preferable with the none interference FIRE engine. However a bit too lardy (even in povo spec) to be a 'small italian car'. GT's are great though.

[barrett]

not that i've had any experience or anything, but I always thought a diesel Pug 405 is a pretty safe bet for a realistic daily driver, i'm sure you can run them on veg oil too for SUPA MPGs

[UglyAmerican]

For the UK at least, good case for the Peugeot 405 and maaayyybe even a 406 (or have they all been taxi company tainted by now).How about the Rover 400/45?

[whiskeyonesix]

On a similar note, what about the Rover 200/400? Best served with Honda engine for added reliability. Aside from that, I'd mention the volvo 700/900.

[Albert Ross]

Sierra 1.8 CVH. Rust like fury, no bits available for the engine, but economical for a RWD GR8 for DRIFT etc. Oh wait, there's none left as the kit-car boys stole all the bits off them and threw the engines away.

[Father Ted]

1.7 N/A Pug 405 Diesel.

 

Slow to the point of being overtaken by old ladies on zimmer frames, however

Fairly rust resilient

Easy and uncompleted to spanner

Good parts supply / interchangeability

Economical.

[Milford Cubicle]

I don't think a Peugeot 405 is a good bet, a lot of them seem to utterly self-destruct eventually. Mind you, mine probably self-destructed because it couldn't take any more of my mechanical ineptitude.Vauxhall Astra Mk3? Fuck dull but mechanically simple and easy to fix with good parts supply.

[garethj]

Our family car for a while was a Passat like this one:

It had 160k on the clock when we sold it, it's probably still going today. Avoid the 16V engines because they're thirsty and check if the heater control works, but they're similar to other VWs of the time. Estates are (a bit more) valuable, but saloons are bargain basement. They're also very roomy inside.

 

I'd have thought a Peugeot 306 would be a safe bet, there's a few run by barryboys so spares from write-offs should be plentiful

 

Golfs would be for the same reason but you've got to buy a good one to start with.

[Justin Case]

I really need a larger estate, but I have been really depressing myself by reading reliability reports on the more recent stuff, even Mercedes diesels seem to be a major bill just waiting to happen. I have narrowed the field down to Mercedes E class W124 or Passat 1988 on model. Petrol seem a lot cheaper than diesel, I don't think that I do enough miles miles to make it worthwhile. BTW is Honest John really honest or is he just Miserable Old Barsteward John

[scooters]

Volvo 940 estate reliable cheap fast comfortable safe and huge boot to boot. The sport edition comes with a high pressure turbo with in line boost and lowered improved suspensionA q car if ever there was. Get one around the 100 k mark and cleanse all electrical bits regularly and you should have no problemsOr a citroen bx 19 tzd. Top of the range late oil burning bx with psa s legendary 1.9 engine

[gurnsimps]

Hi,My everyday car is old, very good on fuel,great fun to drive ,easy to work on,most parts very cheap,huge grin factor especially in the twisty bits and get smiles where ever I take it....ahem safety....well its strong compared to some of the modern stuff......

[scooters]

I really need a larger estate, but I have been really depressing myself by reading reliability reports on the more recent stuff, even Mercedes diesels seem to be a major bill just waiting to happen. I have narrowed the field down to Mercedes E class W124 or Passat 1988 on model. Petrol seem a lot cheaper than diesel, I don't think that I do enough miles miles to make it worthwhile. BTW is Honest John really honest or is he just Miserable Old Barsteward John

Mate honest john talks nonsense. Get a 940 seriously. I bought one in 2008 with 130k on the clock inMint condition top spec did 1000 miles a week in it went ti spain and back twice with young family and sold it 14 months laterFor what I paid for it £700 with 200k on the clock. The car is still bullying 5 series bmws And is going strong to this day. No mechanical issus no rust atall and no wear to the leather interior which looks. New.124s rust and 1988 passats are on the whole not as well screwed together than the 900

[carlo]

Agree with the 405 (obviously!), loads still around so loads in scrapyards, reliable, comfortable, not too bad to work on, lots of creature comforts, approaching classic status (very slowly) - and if my two petrols were anything to go by totally indestructable.

[Jon]

Would be a bit difficult to know what's good to buy in the Austrian market and it does really depend what size car you need and what to use it for - towing, dog carrying etc. Also, would your budget initially stretch to buying a modern car? If so, you may be willing to swallow some extra fuel costs by buying a cheaper (older) car in the first place.I bought a Saab 9000 almost 4 years ago and added about 60000 miles to it so far (it's now Mrs_Cavs). 2.0lpt so it'll never win any races but nice leather interior, long-legged gearing and just generally nice to be in. It's also about the biggest hatchback I could find (didn't fancy a Rover 800) so really practical but without any of the estate car tax. Consistently 33mpg (with a lot of small runs to work) but then buy a smaller car if you don't need such a big one. After calculating depreciation, initial purchase price and running costs of a smaller new or nearly new car, I don't regret buying it. Parts prices are a little scary but it helps if you know a good specialist, especially if they have a yard full of parts cars. So it may be sensible for me but not for others.I think most would agree they have a better reputation than a 9-5 - progress, eh?

[dollywobbler]

The BX TZD actually had the 1.7 Turbo diesel engine. They are fapping awesome machines, but you can expect regular maintenance to keep it happy. Worth it in my opinion, but I may be biased!I'd say Renault 21. I really like mine. It's been a revelation and while I'm sure electrical gremlins will strike, probably at the worst time, they're mechanically robust and quick in 2-litre form.